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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    qbzno5hakj6g.jpg

    I have a question. Does any other country (city, county) still use riot horses, or is it a Canadian thing only?

    This was taken at the Raptors NBA rally in Toronto where a million people showed up to celebrate their win. There was one shooting, two stabbings and a boat load of bomb threats, but besides that allegedly everything else went smoothly.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    deltago wrote: »
    qbzno5hakj6g.jpg

    I have a question. Does any other country (city, county) still use riot horses, or is it a Canadian thing only?

    This was taken at the Raptors NBA rally in Toronto where a million people showed up to celebrate their win. There was one shooting, two stabbings and a boat load of bomb threats, but besides that allegedly everything else went smoothly.

    Good thing it wasn't Detroit, New Orleans or Chicago. Bloodbath City!
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Many urban police departments still have a number of horses they use, but mostly for parades, special city events, or for things such as State fairs.

    The New York Legislature passed, and Gov. Cuomo signed into law, a measure which will allow undocumented immigrants in that State the ability to obtain a driver's license. Let that sink in for a moment--this is de facto naturalization because the vast majority of other pieces of documentation use "driver's license" as the foundation document. On the one hand, States Rights allows New York to give out driver's licenses to anyone they want to; on the other hand, "full faith and credit" means that a valid NY license is also valid in every other State, as well. Ultimately, this means that--taken at face value--New York just naturalized every undocumented immigrant who moves to New York and gets a valid driver's license. Why wait 3 or 4 years for your immigration hearing when you can get a license after being a resident for only 30 days? Let us be truthful--no one was ever going to be able to find, process, and deport however many millions of undocumented immigrants are already here. Still, this measure will probably be thrown into a Federal court as a "States Rights vs Federal" case.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    There should be a mark on that license so it can't be used to qualify for things that are supposed to be restricted to citizens (voting, government benefits, whatever). I can see the logic in allowing it because it could get some illegal immigrants to go through driver's ed courses they otherwise might not bother with, but that kind of documentation really takes the "undocumented" part out of "undocumented immigrant." I'm not sure how practical it would be for illegal immigrants to move to New York just to get a license and then move out, but it could grant some form of artificial citizenship to those who entered the country illegally and failed to pass a proper citizenship test.
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    Many urban police departments still have a number of horses they use, but mostly for parades, special city events, or for things such as State fairs.

    The New York Legislature passed, and Gov. Cuomo signed into law, a measure which will allow undocumented immigrants in that State the ability to obtain a driver's license. Let that sink in for a moment--this is de facto naturalization because the vast majority of other pieces of documentation use "driver's license" as the foundation document. On the one hand, States Rights allows New York to give out driver's licenses to anyone they want to; on the other hand, "full faith and credit" means that a valid NY license is also valid in every other State, as well. Ultimately, this means that--taken at face value--New York just naturalized every undocumented immigrant who moves to New York and gets a valid driver's license. Why wait 3 or 4 years for your immigration hearing when you can get a license after being a resident for only 30 days? Let us be truthful--no one was ever going to be able to find, process, and deport however many millions of undocumented immigrants are already here. Still, this measure will probably be thrown into a Federal court as a "States Rights vs Federal" case.

    1. For shame! Turning UNDOCUMENTED immigrants into DOCUMENTED immigrants! THIS IS TERRIBLE! OH THE HUMANITY!

    2. Doesn't it bother you that it takes 3 to 4 years for a hearing? Our legal system needs a huge kick in the ass about turn-around time. Personal example: An open and shut case of burglary of my apartment (video evidence), still took 8 MONTHS for the County Courthouse/DA Office to get the case files from a local city police office. Both pleading guilt, one went away before I was even told they've gone to court. I sat through the civil/criminal cases for a couple days now when the second defendant has come up, and it's a huge stream of pushing this civil case back to be heard later for this reason or that reason.

    Some of these cases are taking years. It's why I will be pisssed if Trump is out of office before the legal question regarding ignoring subpoenas even makes it through the legal system. It shouldn't even BE a question, it should be laughed out of court and charged with contempt of court for wasting the court's time.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Quickblade wrote: »
    Many urban police departments still have a number of horses they use, but mostly for parades, special city events, or for things such as State fairs.

    The New York Legislature passed, and Gov. Cuomo signed into law, a measure which will allow undocumented immigrants in that State the ability to obtain a driver's license. Let that sink in for a moment--this is de facto naturalization because the vast majority of other pieces of documentation use "driver's license" as the foundation document. On the one hand, States Rights allows New York to give out driver's licenses to anyone they want to; on the other hand, "full faith and credit" means that a valid NY license is also valid in every other State, as well. Ultimately, this means that--taken at face value--New York just naturalized every undocumented immigrant who moves to New York and gets a valid driver's license. Why wait 3 or 4 years for your immigration hearing when you can get a license after being a resident for only 30 days? Let us be truthful--no one was ever going to be able to find, process, and deport however many millions of undocumented immigrants are already here. Still, this measure will probably be thrown into a Federal court as a "States Rights vs Federal" case.

    1. For shame! Turning UNDOCUMENTED immigrants into DOCUMENTED immigrants! THIS IS TERRIBLE! OH THE HUMANITY!

    2. Doesn't it bother you that it takes 3 to 4 years for a hearing? Our legal system needs a huge kick in the ass about turn-around time. Personal example: An open and shut case of burglary of my apartment (video evidence), still took 8 MONTHS for the County Courthouse/DA Office to get the case files from a local city police office. Both pleading guilt, one went away before I was even told they've gone to court. I sat through the civil/criminal cases for a couple days now when the second defendant has come up, and it's a huge stream of pushing this civil case back to be heard later for this reason or that reason.

    Some of these cases are taking years. It's why I will be pisssed if Trump is out of office before the legal question regarding ignoring subpoenas even makes it through the legal system. It shouldn't even BE a question, it should be laughed out of court and charged with contempt of court for wasting the court's time.

    Wasting the courts' time seems to be a hobby in the U.S.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Balrog99 Do you know how many people are killed by the police in our country? Despite our violent crime level being pretty average compared to almost every other developed country, our police force kills a staggering number of people. Our country outdoes any other developed country in deaths by police, and is even higher than almost every 2 other countries combined. More people are killed by police in major cities here than in some ENTIRE OTHER COUNTRIES.

    Last year 992 poeple were killed by police officers. About 1/3 to half were never charged with a crime. 200 of which were mentally disabled. At least 47 were unarmed. 879 of which had no body camera.

    421 have died so far this year. This is a STAGGERING amount of people. This is just the worst case scenario as well. This leaves out crimes that are uninvestigated (Fun fact: my car was stolen last year and our police force refused to investigate it.) Non-fatal encounters, racial profiling, etc. There are serious SERIOUS problems and these problems are the STANDARD, not the exception.
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Balrog99 Do you know how many people are killed by the police in our country? Despite our violent crime level being pretty average compared to almost every other developed country, our police force kills a staggering number of people. Our country outdoes any other developed country in deaths by police, and is even higher than almost every 2 other countries combined. More people are killed by police in major cities here than in some ENTIRE OTHER COUNTRIES.

    Last year 992 poeple were killed by police officers. About 1/3 to half were never charged with a crime. 200 of which were mentally disabled. At least 47 were unarmed. 879 of which had no body camera.

    421 have died so far this year. This is a STAGGERING amount of people. This is just the worst case scenario as well. This leaves out crimes that are uninvestigated (Fun fact: my car was stolen last year and our police force refused to investigate it.) Non-fatal encounters, racial profiling, etc. There are serious SERIOUS problems and these problems are the STANDARD, not the exception.

    Also worth mentioning that that is more than ALL "justifiable homicides" per year, so by default, there are some unjustifiable homicides in police shootings.

    And it's not even just shootings, though those are certainly the highest offense. I will never forget a video clip of a black guy being beat by like 5 cops against a wall, one of whom does an elbow jab to his face AFTER the victim, having been knocked unconscious, has started sliding to the ground.

    The couple dozen videos I've seen of police excessive use of force, and planting evidence, leads me to not take the police at their word. We SHOULDN'T take them at their word. "Question everything" should not just be a catchy saying. A curious, open, and questioning mind should be how we live every day.

    Every good cop should be wanting body cameras. There is no reason NOT to have them on every police officer in the country. When they have the power to arrest or kill, they should be held to a high standard of scrutiny.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Some folks have argued that body cameras will weaken police by making them afraid to use appropriate force with citizens, and that therefore body cams are a bad idea. The precise opposite is true: if a police officer is using an appropriate level of course when dealing with a citizen, a body camera would prove that.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Quickblade wrote: »
    Many urban police departments still have a number of horses they use, but mostly for parades, special city events, or for things such as State fairs.

    The New York Legislature passed, and Gov. Cuomo signed into law, a measure which will allow undocumented immigrants in that State the ability to obtain a driver's license. Let that sink in for a moment--this is de facto naturalization because the vast majority of other pieces of documentation use "driver's license" as the foundation document. On the one hand, States Rights allows New York to give out driver's licenses to anyone they want to; on the other hand, "full faith and credit" means that a valid NY license is also valid in every other State, as well. Ultimately, this means that--taken at face value--New York just naturalized every undocumented immigrant who moves to New York and gets a valid driver's license. Why wait 3 or 4 years for your immigration hearing when you can get a license after being a resident for only 30 days? Let us be truthful--no one was ever going to be able to find, process, and deport however many millions of undocumented immigrants are already here. Still, this measure will probably be thrown into a Federal court as a "States Rights vs Federal" case.

    1. For shame! Turning UNDOCUMENTED immigrants into DOCUMENTED immigrants! THIS IS TERRIBLE! OH THE HUMANITY!

    2. Doesn't it bother you that it takes 3 to 4 years for a hearing? Our legal system needs a huge kick in the ass about turn-around time. Personal example: An open and shut case of burglary of my apartment (video evidence), still took 8 MONTHS for the County Courthouse/DA Office to get the case files from a local city police office. Both pleading guilt, one went away before I was even told they've gone to court. I sat through the civil/criminal cases for a couple days now when the second defendant has come up, and it's a huge stream of pushing this civil case back to be heard later for this reason or that reason.

    Some of these cases are taking years. It's why I will be pisssed if Trump is out of office before the legal question regarding ignoring subpoenas even makes it through the legal system. It shouldn't even BE a question, it should be laughed out of court and charged with contempt of court for wasting the court's time.

    Wasting the courts' time seems to be a hobby in the U.S.

    Be like Canada then:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-speedy-trial-1.3670079

    Prosecutors have 30 months to bring a person to trial or the case will be thrown out because it infringes on the person’s charter of rights.

    Tick tock.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Balrog99 Do you know how many people are killed by the police in our country? Despite our violent crime level being pretty average compared to almost every other developed country, our police force kills a staggering number of people. Our country outdoes any other developed country in deaths by police, and is even higher than almost every 2 other countries combined. More people are killed by police in major cities here than in some ENTIRE OTHER COUNTRIES.

    Last year 992 poeple were killed by police officers. About 1/3 to half were never charged with a crime. 200 of which were mentally disabled. At least 47 were unarmed. 879 of which had no body camera.

    421 have died so far this year. This is a STAGGERING amount of people. This is just the worst case scenario as well. This leaves out crimes that are uninvestigated (Fun fact: my car was stolen last year and our police force refused to investigate it.) Non-fatal encounters, racial profiling, etc. There are serious SERIOUS problems and these problems are the STANDARD, not the exception.

    Staggering? In a country with 325 million people? I don't think you realize what a non-issue this is. 421 and how many didn't instigate? Half? Less than half? Let's go with a roughly half. 211 people in 5 1/2 months. 480 in a year would be 4 people/month across 50 states for an entire year. Wow, that's just staggering. Your idea of staggering and mine just don't agree whatsoever...
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    edited June 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Balrog99 Do you know how many people are killed by the police in our country? Despite our violent crime level being pretty average compared to almost every other developed country, our police force kills a staggering number of people. Our country outdoes any other developed country in deaths by police, and is even higher than almost every 2 other countries combined. More people are killed by police in major cities here than in some ENTIRE OTHER COUNTRIES.

    Last year 992 poeple were killed by police officers. About 1/3 to half were never charged with a crime. 200 of which were mentally disabled. At least 47 were unarmed. 879 of which had no body camera.

    421 have died so far this year. This is a STAGGERING amount of people. This is just the worst case scenario as well. This leaves out crimes that are uninvestigated (Fun fact: my car was stolen last year and our police force refused to investigate it.) Non-fatal encounters, racial profiling, etc. There are serious SERIOUS problems and these problems are the STANDARD, not the exception.

    Staggering? In a country with 325 million people? I don't think you realize what a non-issue this is. 421 and how many didn't instigate? Half? Less than half? Let's go with a roughly half. 211 people in 5 1/2 months. 480 in a year would be 4 people/month across 50 states for an entire year. Wow, that's just staggering. Your idea of staggering and mine just don't agree whatsoever...

    For perspective though, it's roughly 1 in 10 homicides get shot by police. If half of those are unjustified, that means that 1 out of every 20 people shot are killed by "bad cops".

    Sure, ultimately it's all irrelevant compared to heart disease, diabetes, and cancer in developed nations; and malaria, flu, and other infectious diseases in undeveloped nations.

    Nobody gets out of life alive.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    211 is not just a number. Those are people who aren't alive anymore. And let's not compare police shootings to disease, especially cancer. Police shootings are not an inevitable result of biology and what happens to the human body. They are something that is unnecessary that we choose to accept. This is actually the EXACT argument the cop who killed Eric Garner is now making. He is basically saying "yeah, we choked him which initiated his cardiac arrest, but he was so fat he would have died soon anyway." The excuses are bottomless and ever more ridiculous.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Balrog99 So its okay for cops to kill innocent people, including children and the disabled so long as its less than common diseases?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Bear in mind that the thread rules forbid "ascribing absurd or sinister motives to other forumites."
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    The reasoning for the driver's licenses is pretty simple to discern and is actually a matter of public safety rather than the nefarious plot it is painted as:

    1.) States (especially immensely populous ones like New York and California) have neither the time, resources or inclination to hunt down undocumented workers.

    2.) Since they are here and businesses are hiring them, they are going to be commuting to work.

    3.) It is far better to have them pass a series of tests that require knowledge and a minimal proficiency on the road than to just have them driving around without doing so.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Balrog99 So its okay for cops to kill innocent people, including children and the disabled so long as its less than common diseases?

    That's not at all what I'm saying. Im saying that it isn't the wholesale epidemic slaughter that you're portraying. So how many children and/or disabled people are we talking about? I'd bet it's a very tiny percentage of the total. It really doesnt seem to me that we have 900,000 homicidal maniacs roaming the steets looking for people to blow away. I daresay there'd be, at least, a thousand times as many deaths if that were the case...
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Quickblade wrote: »
    1. For shame! Turning UNDOCUMENTED immigrants into DOCUMENTED immigrants! THIS IS TERRIBLE! OH THE HUMANITY!

    I have argued for amnesty before. As noted, there is no way to be able to find, process, and potentially deport millions of people. I didn't say it was terrible; rather, I was merely noting the story.
    I don't understand this at all. How does it naturalize anyone?

    In and of itself, it doesn't. However, a valid driver's license is typically used as the foundation of a lot of other documentation and that gives people a lot more than they would have had otherwise, as least legally. I suppose I should have used "documented" in place of "naturalized" but I was thinking three steps ahead.

    The real question in that story will be the "full faith and credit" consideration--do other States have to honor those drivers' licenses? They will be issued by the State of New York, after all.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Trump, who took out a full page ad in the ny times demanding the death penalty for the so-called central park five, was asked if he'd apologize now that the truth had come out and the real killer was behind bars. Did he apologize? Of course not.

    "You have people on both sides of that. They admitted their guilt," Trump said. "If you look at Linda Fairstein and if you look at some of the prosecutors, they think that the city should never have settled that case. "

    So he went with, again, the"both sides" false equivalence.

    The Central Park Five were exonerated based on DNA evidence and the guy whose DNA matched admitted to doing it.

    Their case is a lesson to be learned about the cops getting it wrong even when they just "know" it was those guys. Well it wasn't and they got false confessions and men lost years of their lives.

    And here we are all these years later the President is "muh both sides". What a embarrassing weakling the President is he's so afraid of admitting he was wrong and breaking the delusions of his supporters. What other possible reason could Trump have for this nonsense. 'both sides".
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited June 2019
    Well I was torn between Biden and Trump since both said they'd cure cancer if they were elected. I think I'm going to have to go with 'The Donald' though, since he also promised to cure AIDS. However, I'm still open to Biden if he promises to cure the common cold. I'm suffering with one right now and that would put old Biden over the top in my book...
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Balrog99 So its okay for cops to kill innocent people, including children and the disabled so long as its less than common diseases?

    That's not at all what I'm saying. Im saying that it isn't the wholesale epidemic slaughter that you're portraying. So how many children and/or disabled people are we talking about? I'd bet it's a very tiny percentage of the total. It really doesnt seem to me that we have 900,000 homicidal maniacs roaming the steets looking for people to blow away. I daresay there'd be, at least, a thousand times as many deaths if that were the case...

    If over 900 hundred people being killed over the course of 6 months isn't a slaughter, what is? Don't think this is problematic?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Joe Biden, who voted with Republicans to restore citizenship to Confederate president Jefferson Davis, promises Rich Donors He Won’t ‘Demonize’ The Wealthy If Elected President: “No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” the former vice president said at a New York fundraiser on Tuesday.

    s3IPW0YQd0TNDYSuq7pRzCa4QiwOCp7mP0KSlX1NZBo.jpg?auto=webp&s=64f156a8371b74a1e6c072d8c409a09ce83fbb95



  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Trump, who took out a full page ad in the ny times demanding the death penalty for the so-called central park five, was asked if he'd apologize now that the truth had come out and the real killer was behind bars. Did he apologize? Of course not.

    "You have people on both sides of that. They admitted their guilt," Trump said. "If you look at Linda Fairstein and if you look at some of the prosecutors, they think that the city should never have settled that case. "

    So he went with, again, the"both sides" false equivalence.

    The Central Park Five were exonerated based on DNA evidence and the guy whose DNA matched admitted to doing it.

    Their case is a lesson to be learned about the cops getting it wrong even when they just "know" it was those guys. Well it wasn't and they got false confessions and men lost years of their lives.

    And here we are all these years later the President is "muh both sides". What a embarrassing weakling the President is he's so afraid of admitting he was wrong and breaking the delusions of his supporters. What other possible reason could Trump have for this nonsense. 'both sides".

    There is a very simple reason Trump thinks these 5 men should have STILL been put to death after DNA evidence exonerated them and PROVED beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone else did it. It's because they were black. So even if they didn't do this, they must have been guilty of something. The Wall Street Journal even published an op-ed saying basically the same thing from the now disgraced Linda Fairstein after the Netflix series came out and made this case a national discussion point. I swear to god, in following legal travesties over the years, nothing has made my blood boil more than the Central Park Five and West Memphis Three. And I legitimately believe anyone who still thinks either of these groups of men (boys at the time when they were scapegoated) are guilty are among the dumbest human beings walking the face of the Earth.
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523
    Is anyone else afraid that John Bolton had that drone shot down?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    bleusteel wrote: »
    Is anyone else afraid that John Bolton had that drone shot down?

    Apparently the pretext for war is now so flimsy it is reduced to feigning outrage over a ROBOT that was likely near or in their airspace getting shot down. We should all pray for the drone's family and friends during this trying time.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,388
    edited June 2019
    bleusteel wrote: »
    Is anyone else afraid that John Bolton had that drone shot down?

    I'm not sure if that's a serious question or not. Playing it straight though - it seems unlikely given that the Iranians have claimed responsibility. I suppose you could argue that Bolton could have used an attempt by the Iranians as a cover, but I'm not sure why he would feel the need. The situation is escalating quite nicely at the moment anyway from the point of view of someone seeking conflict and firing a missile at an unmanned drone is anyway not a lot different from actually shooting it down ...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Balrog99 So its okay for cops to kill innocent people, including children and the disabled so long as its less than common diseases?

    That's not at all what I'm saying. Im saying that it isn't the wholesale epidemic slaughter that you're portraying. So how many children and/or disabled people are we talking about? I'd bet it's a very tiny percentage of the total. It really doesnt seem to me that we have 900,000 homicidal maniacs roaming the steets looking for people to blow away. I daresay there'd be, at least, a thousand times as many deaths if that were the case...

    If over 900 hundred people being killed over the course of 6 months isn't a slaughter, what is? Don't think this is problematic?

    No, I really don't. 900 sounds like a lot of people but it's not really. Sorry. There are 325 million people in the country and over 7 billion on the planet. Is it acceptable? No, of course it should ideally be 0 but it's not the wide-scale problem you seem to think it is...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Grond0 wrote: »
    bleusteel wrote: »
    Is anyone else afraid that John Bolton had that drone shot down?

    I'm not sure if that's a serious question or not. Playing it straight though - it seems unlikely given that the Iranians have claimed responsibility. I suppose you could argue that Bolton could have used an attempt by the Iranians as a cover, but I'm not sure why he would feel the need. The situation is escalating quite nicely at the moment anyway from the point of view of someone seeking conflict and firing a missile at an unmanned drone is anyway not a lot different from actually shooting it down ...

    And here we have the inevitable consequence of lying about everything on daily basis for years. When a serious situation arises where you need credibility, no one believes you.
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