Skip to content

The Politics Thread

1346347349351352694

Comments

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    This is really terrifying. I'm not making any judgments about this teacher in particular (he apparently had no guns or WMD's on his person or premises) but honestly I've thought the same thing. A smart 'terrorist' Is really scary. This guy is right in what he was implying. If somebody who is perfectly rational and even somewhat intelligent wanted to kill a LOT of people, it wouldn't be all that difficult...

    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/23/us/florida-teacher-school-shooter/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/
    smeagolheartBelleSorciere
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    DinoDin wrote: »
    As Smeagol says, they're just reporting Bolsonaro's words.

    Technically speaking, I said that first. Unless I missed an earlier post of Smeagol's.

    I think my post was closer is all, we've both posted plenty on this Bolsanaro guy.

    This is a great video about the guy before the eleciton and it shows his own words which unfortunately people ignored because they wanted a "tough guy" *eye roll*

    NSFW language

    7:55 for bolsanaro
    Balrog99BelleSorciere
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited August 2019
    DinoDin wrote: »
    As Smeagol says, they're just reporting Bolsonaro's words.

    Technically speaking, I said that first. Unless I missed an earlier post of Smeagol's.

    I think my post was closer is all, we've both posted plenty on this Bolsanaro guy.

    This is a great video about the guy before the eleciton and it shows his own words which unfortunately people ignored because they wanted a "tough guy" *eye roll*

    NSFW language

    7:55 for bolsanaro

    Bolsonaro makes Trump look like a Saint! This proves my point about democracy however. The majority is not always right and believing that it is isn't rational.

    I'd very likely vote for Spiderman and would at least consider Gary Busey for the record...

    Edit: In a democracy Hitler would theoretically only need to get one more vote than his closest opponent. Just saying...
    BelleSorciere
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited August 2019
    According to Qu Yuhui Brazil is one of the hardest places in the environmental regulations https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://oglobo.globo.com/economia/brasil-um-dos-paises-mais-rigorosos-nessas-questoes-ambientais-afirma-diplomata-chines-23899850

    But lets talk about what Bolsonaro """evil""" government did:
    • Despite the senate revoking everything that he did, while vigent, his decrees gave a lot of security for police and it reduced the homicide/robbery by 20% source(translated) If wasen't by the senade barring his gun reforms and if he could reduce "penal age" and implement family planning on "favelas"(something hard to implement n a most catholic country), probably the criminality could go down by 80% if not more.
    • Bovespa raise to historical records
    • Responsible for environmental disaster like an barrage who collapsed got finally in charges.
    • The government will stop using tax money to ""help"" African and Venezuelan communist dictatorship
    • Cuban doctors are under the same rules as other doctos. During workers party government
    • An packet against corruption to fight corruption
    • "MP 881" who makes harder for regulatory agency to destroy small business with dumb regulations and reduced a lot of bureaucracy making the country less impossible for small business.
    • Passed an pension reform who will prevent the country from bankrupt and raised the trust from investors
    • Privatizations of companies in deficit
    • Now will be an tributary reform, making simples to do business.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    According to Qu Yuhui Brazil is one of the hardest places in the environmental regulations https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://oglobo.globo.com/economia/brasil-um-dos-paises-mais-rigorosos-nessas-questoes-ambientais-afirma-diplomata-chines-23899850

    But lets talk about what Bolsonaro """evil""" government did:
    • Despite the senate revoking everything that he did, while vigent, his decrees gave a lot of security for police and it reduced the homicide/robbery by 20% source(translated) If wasen't by the senade barring his gun reforms and if he could the "penal age" with family planning on "favelas"(something hard to implement n a most catholic country), probably the criminality could go down by 80% if not more.
    • Bovespa raise to historical records
    • Responsible for environmental disaster like an barrage who collapsed got finally in charges.
    • The government will stop using tax money to ""help"" African and Venezuelan communist dictatorship
    • Cuban doctors are under the same rules as other doctos. During workers party government
    • An packet against corruption to fight corruption
    • "MP 881" who makes harder for regulatory agency to destroy small business with dumb regulations and reduced a lot of bureaucracy making the country less impossible for small business.
    • Passed an pension reform who will prevent the country from bankrupt and raised the trust from investors
    • Privatizations of companies in deficit
    • Now will be an tributary reform, making simples to do business.

    I'm pretty sure that most of the people in this forum don't have the background in Brazilian history to really gauge Bolsonaro objectively. However, even as a fiscal conservative/social libertarian, I have to say he seems like a dick to me...
    smeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Trump says he has spoken to Bolsanaro and offered "assistance". I can only assume this consists of sending in the 82nd Airborne armed with rakes.

    Trump's probably just telling him what a great job he's doing. Anything more would require some sort of action...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited August 2019
    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/23/us/trump-obama-change-blake/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

    Wow, somebody at CNN hitting the nail on the head. I'd give this an insightful if I could. In my defense, Obama being black mattered nothing to me. In my case it was dislike of Hillary that dictated my vote. I never liked Trump and unless I'm mistaken because of not remembering posts from years ago, I've never defended him as a person. I voted for this asshole pragmatically as a reaction to what I viewed as PC bullshit and as an 'f' you to the 'chosen one'. I'm still not convinced I was mistaken in 2016 with my protest vote, but I am sure that voting for Trump was a mistake. I admit it, I should have pissed away my best chance ever of electing a president on my own by voting for the Libertarian in Michigan.
    Grond0
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I voted for this asshole pragmatically as a reaction to what I viewed as PC bullshit and as an 'f' you to the 'chosen one'.

    I get what you're saying, but those reasons are kind of the opposite of pragmatic.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Hail hydra?

    An arm of the Justice Department regularly sent summaries and links to articles from an online white nationalist publication over the last year, a BuzzFeed News investigation has found.

    In addition, similar newsletters sent to the Labor Department, ICE, HUD, and the Department of Homeland Security included links and content from hyperpartisan and conspiracy-oriented publishers.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/vdare-doj-dol-epoch-times
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    DinoDin wrote: »
    As Smeagol says, they're just reporting Bolsonaro's words.

    Technically speaking, I said that first. Unless I missed an earlier post of Smeagol's.

    I think my post was closer is all, we've both posted plenty on this Bolsanaro guy.

    This is a great video about the guy before the eleciton and it shows his own words which unfortunately people ignored because they wanted a "tough guy" *eye roll*

    NSFW language

    7:55 for bolsanaro

    0:25 - "Cariocas" are just those who was born in Rio de Janeiro, say that Cariocas = Brazilian is like saying that Texan = American when is not. I live almost 1000km southern of Rio de Janeiro and don't like most of Rio's culture.
    2:40 - He is right BUT he forgot to mention that this crisis is mostly caused by crimes and actions made by the previous government.
    3:00 - Yes, Rio is extremely violent.
    5:50 - he forgot to mention many things.
    • Most of growth in 2000s tends to be related to a commodity boom. Russia and other countries have an ecnomic boom. Is not Lula's merit.
    • He is projected to win due his bribe/welfare. "bolsa familia" is an buying votes program. And you can see in any map that states where few people receive government benefits like Santa catarina, Bolsonaro Won with 83% of votes. On Northeast, Haddad won.
    • Lula appealed the decision and got higher sentence. Charges against him are not politically motivated. Unless 3 judges and dozens of prosecutors are politically motivated and everyone who wrote proofs against him in delations are too.
    6:40 - Haddad was an disaster to SP. I will not enter in details since i only visited SP to take an visa long time ago, but the traffic become extremely chaotic an violent.
    7:55 - NEver got persecuted by corruption, defended the right to bear arms, defended freedom of expression, freedom of press, freedom of association, freedom of doing business...
    9:40 - And an bad person can be that popular???
    9:47 - No, he wanna re write environmental regulations to become more efficient in preventing disasters and not make enviable the development of certain regions
    10:00 - He forgot to mention that most gun control that exist was passed during an bribecracy where an party literally was buying laws and approved by an dictator(Vargas) and that in 2008 the population massively voted for the right to own guns, an right that politicans took away ignoring the will of the population!!!
    10:11 - He was saying in relation to kill when is necessary to save innocent lives. Out of context again...
    10:30 - He was saying that between an bribecracy and an dictatorship, people had more freedom, prosperity and stability during dictatorship. And during Geisel government, Brazil growth almsot 10% per year.
    11:20 - Again, see the complete video. Already talked about it...

    I will not detail everything else, but seriously. Haddad would turn this country into an Venezuela. An friend of mine who owns an store said that if Haddad had own, he would sell everything and move to Chile.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    Here's an article I found interesting about a recent rash of arrests in the US of potential mass shooters. The article goes into some of the problems of preventing such crimes given that free speech rights in the US allow people to threaten to commit them. One example given was of an 18 year old who had threatened to cause mass casualties at his old high school. A friend informed on him and a police search found a diary titled "Journal of an Active Shooter" along with weapons. The weapons were legal though and all charges were eventually dropped when it was decided that the expressed intention to commit a crime did not amount to the preparations for imminent action required for prosecution.

    The article refers to the fact that the US has specific laws relating to international terrorism that do criminalize this type of intention to commit a crime and reports an increase in calls to expand those laws to cover domestic terrorism as well. However, I think that has been done already - at least to some extent given that the USA Patriot Act of 2001 expanded the definition of terrorism to cover domestic as well as international. I haven't researched that Act properly, but at first glance it looks to me as though it could be used as the basis of a charge in the above sort of case. I suspect the fact that it hasn't been used in that way reflects concerns about the very broad potential application of the Act and the way it could be used to undermine 1st amendment rights - the ACLU has certainly campaigned against the Act for this reason.

    Perhaps it would be helpful in the US to have a more open conversation about constitutional rights. Those are often portrayed as absolute rights applying in all circumstances, but that's never been the case. Terrorism legislation is an example where one form of rights has been over-ridden to protect another (such as the right to life of other people). Rather than taking absolutist positions at either end of the spectrum, it might be helpful to get people together to talk about the best way to balance conflicting rights. The sort of Citizens Assembly used in Ireland to prepare the way for the referendum on abortion is an example of the way in which this approach can be used to tackle apparently irreconcilable views (the same sort of thing would be useful on 2nd amendment rights as well of course ...).
    SorcererV1ct0r
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    edited August 2019
    9:40 - And an bad person can be that popular???

    Is this a serious question? Do you remember Hitler and Mussolini giving speeches to cheering crowds?

    You also seem to think Lulu is a bad person, and yet he was even more popular?
    10:11 - He was saying in relation to kill when is necessary to save innocent lives. Out of context again...

    There is no context in which that is a good thing. No one who is a genuinely good person wants police to have the power to kill like that.

    Also, such concern for innocent lives, Bolsonaro displays.
    I support torture. You know that. And the people too. Through the vote, you'll change nothing in this country. Nothing, absolutely nothing. We'll only get change, unfortunately, when we go into a civil war here someday and do a work the military regime didn't do, killing as much as thirty thousand people, starting with FHC. It's all right if some innocent people die. Innocent people die in many wars.
    I will not detail everything else, but seriously. Haddad would turn this country into an Venezuela. An friend of mine who owns an store said that if Haddad had own, he would sell everything and move to Chile.

    Venezuela went the way it did because of US interference in Venezuela's affairs, which is what the US does every time any slightly left government gains even a modicum of power.
    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited August 2019
    Is this a serious question? Do you remember Hitler and Mussolini giving speeches to cheering crowds?

    Except that Hitler have exactly ZERO chance of winning in a jew majority country by obvious reason. if Bolsonaro is so racist and misogynistic, how he could won in a white minority country? Where woman are 52% of voters?
    You also seem to think Lulu is a bad person, and yet he was even more popular?

    Depends popular when. In Northeast, yes, in South, not. And on Japan(most Brazilians living on Japan has Japanese ancestry), Bolsonaro won with more than 90% of voters. On US depends. Those residing on California voted mostly for Haddad. Those who resides on Florida voted mostly for Bolsonaro.

    source about JP https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://ipc.digital/jair-bolsonaro-no-japao-conquista-90-dos-votos/

    Also, Lula is condemned by a lot of crimes. And he supported the Venezuela dictatorship.
    I support torture. You know that. And the people too. Through the vote, you'll change nothing in this country. Nothing, absolutely nothing. We'll only get change, unfortunately, when we go into a civil war here someday and do a work the military regime didn't do, killing as much as thirty thousand people, starting with FHC. It's all right if some innocent people die. Innocent people die in many wars.

    HE said it probably in a moment of rage. But my point is, imagine that you have to decide between someone >
    A ) Who managed to make the traffic on SP worse than already was and plans to transform the country into an new Venezuela and is the "successor" of an guy on prison(in 2012, the city was having 180km of Jams > https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19660765 ).and Haddad managed to make it far worse.
    B ) An guy that say racist jokes and answer insults with insults but defends freedom of press, freedom of association, reforms to make an country where nobody wanna do business more attractive to business, self defense, etc
    IVenezuela went the way it did because of US interference in Venezuela's affairs, which is what the US does every time any slightly left government gains even a modicum of power.

    Not True. Mujica is extreme left leaning on Uruguay. US din't interfered in Argentina an country under decades of Peronism. Macri government tried to fix things but failing miserably and probably Argentina will go bankrupt again soon after the next election... The closest thing to an intervention is removing Argentina from Visa Waiver Program due the fear that people will illegally stay on US and it makes no sense IMO since millions and millions of Argentinians have Italian Citizenship.

    But i agree that US interventionism is an problem. How many wars and interventions on Middle East who din't solved anything and only costs trillions?

    I suggest this article CLINTON, GADDAFI, AND THE DEATH OF AFRICA'S GOLD STANDARD IDEA
    https://www.marketslant.com/articles/did-clinton-have-gaddafi-killed-over-gold-france
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I support torture. You know that. And the people too. Through the vote, you'll change nothing in this country. Nothing, absolutely nothing. We'll only get change, unfortunately, when we go into a civil war here someday and do a work the military regime didn't do, killing as much as thirty thousand people, starting with FHC. It's all right if some innocent people die. Innocent people die in many wars.
    If Bolsonaro flat-out said that voting didn't work and that only civil war with tens of thousands of deaths can effect political change, starting with his opponent, and that it's okay for innocent people to die in the process, it is beyond clear that he intends to murder his political enemies and anyone who might get in his way.

    There is simply no way to twist those words into something else. The man wants to start a bloody civil war. He told us that.
    smeagolheartBelleSorciereThacoBell
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    You know, my absolute biggest complaint about Marx and his followers was that they too said that voting was useless and that only mass murder of the ruling class and their allies could effect political change.
    Balrog99
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited August 2019
    semiticgod wrote: »
    I support torture. You know that. And the people too. Through the vote, you'll change nothing in this country. Nothing, absolutely nothing. We'll only get change, unfortunately, when we go into a civil war here someday and do a work the military regime didn't do, killing as much as thirty thousand people, starting with FHC. It's all right if some innocent people die. Innocent people die in many wars.
    If Bolsonaro flat-out said that voting didn't work and that only civil war with tens of thousands of deaths can effect political change, starting with his opponent, and that it's okay for innocent people to die in the process, it is beyond clear that he intends to murder his political enemies and anyone who might get in his way.

    There is simply no way to twist those words into something else. The man wants to start a bloody civil war. He told us that.

    He said this while he was in rage due an extremely large scandal of corruption more than a decade ago. Everyone say bad things when they are enraged. For eg, do you think that anyone who say "i will kill you" when receive an teammate flash grenade in a competitive FPS like CS:GO would actually do that? This is why push to talk is very used on FPS games, to avoid problems, because people say nasty things when in rage.

    Note that Lula said bad things too. For eg, he said that feminists are an bunch of "grelo duro", is an word that i will not translate since it will lose the meaning but is an allusion to an woman reproductive apparatus in a pejorative way.


    My point is between >
    A ) An guy who managed to make the traffic of São Paulo worse as an Mayor(don't ask me how) and is in an party who supported dictatorships all over world, not only with words, but sending tax payer money to "help" Cuban, Venezuelan and a lot of African dictatorships, and the first, second and third largest corruption scandals of the history of the country
    B ) An guy that says nasty things when enraged and do racist jokes but NEVER did anything wrong to any "minority" and always fought for the rule of the law, freedom of press, right of self defense, etc and made projects to make rapists receive more harsh punishments...

    Bolsonaro is far from perfect but is not like the international media portraits. Is like Salvini. I wanna hear from Italians from right, center and left what they thing about him.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    semiticgod wrote: »
    You know, my absolute biggest complaint about Marx and his followers was that they too said that voting was useless and that only mass murder of the ruling class and their allies could effect political change.

    I often say voting is useless because usually there's nobody to vote for who actually represents me. If I could pick and choose traits of a representative at a philosophy buffet, you'd probably like the guy. I know, I should have wrote 'person' not 'guy' but it's my buffet, not yours! ;)
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    And, like Bolsonaro, Marxists also claimed that their violence was justified because the previous government was bad. Being opposed to people they said were "bad guys" never made them the good guys, and it did not stop them from murdering innocent bystanders in the process, as Bolsonaro tells us he intends to do.

    I do not trust a man with rage issues to hold political power. Our political leaders need to have more self-control than the average citizen; not less.
    Balrog99SorcererV1ct0rThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited August 2019
    semiticgod wrote: »
    And, like Bolsonaro, Marxists also claimed that their violence was justified because the previous government was bad. Being opposed to people they said were "bad guys" never made them the good guys, and it did not stop them from murdering innocent bystanders in the process, as Bolsonaro tells us he intends to do.

    I do not trust a man with rage issues to hold political power. Our political leaders need to have more self-control than the average citizen; not less.

    And note that this nasty things are mostly 5+ years old. On US, an president who says "grab her pu****" is much less evil than another who actually abused woman(at least 10+ woman say so. When is one, you can say that is an false accusation, but when is more than 10, becomes hard to believe on his innocence). And it after promising loyalty to another woman(marriage), if he failed to maintain an promise to his WIFE and failed to follow the laws, how you can expect anything good from him in the position of the greatest power of this planet? Someone who fails to honor the compromise with his family can't be expected to fulfill the compromise with a lot of "unknow people". Politicians have no honor.

    I agree that Bolsonaro has a lot of things to improve but IMO the perfect president will govern for one day. The perfect president He will be elected and in the first day will will convoke an referendum to return monarchy, return to monarchy consituition and revoke all laws against victimless crimes
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    On US, an president who says "grab her pu****" is much less evil than another who actually abused woman(at least 10+ woman say so. When is one, you can say that is an false accusation, but when is more than 10, becomes hard to believe on his innocence).

    Are you referring to the more than 24 women who say Trump assaulted them? Including the ones that were like 13 at the time that she said happened around the time Trump was on video palling around with Epstein?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410


    Anyway, Bolsanaro, people are going to make excuses. People make excuses for Trump, people made excuses for Hitler, people make excuses for Bolsanaro. He said he supports genocide, "oh he didn't mean it", "oh it's out of context", "oh this other guy said something totally different". There's always a million excuses.
    semiticgoddessBelleSorciereThacoBell
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,295
    I didn't exactly count, but what number of accusations is Trump at by now? I specifically remember the one by his ex-wife.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    On US, an president who says "grab her pu****" is much less evil than another who actually abused woman(at least 10+ woman say so. When is one, you can say that is an false accusation, but when is more than 10, becomes hard to believe on his innocence).

    Are you referring to the more than 24 women who say Trump assaulted them? Including the ones that were like 13 at the time that she said happened around the time Trump was on video palling around with Epstein?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410


    Anyway, Bolsanaro, people are going to make excuses. People make excuses for Trump, people made excuses for Hitler, people make excuses for Bolsanaro. He said he supports genocide, "oh he didn't mean it", "oh it's out of context", "oh this other guy said something totally different". There's always a million excuses.

    I was reffering to this guy > https://heavy.com/news/2016/05/bill-clinton-sexual-sex-assault-misconduct-rape-allegations-accusers-affairs-names-list-women-mistresses-scandals-photos-pictures/

    But din't know that Trump had this allegations against him. How he could win in Republicas? I mean, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, all of then sounds better than Trump. IMO Ben Carson > Ted Cruz > Trump.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    @SorcererV1ct0r
    I knew you were referring to Bill Clinton. Some folks must be too busy removing the motes from their opponents' eyes...
    SorcererV1ct0r
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    So, yesterday, this happened in Michigan:

    Candidate: Michigan City Should Be as White ‘as Possible’
    “Husband and wife need to be the same race. Same thing with kids,” she said. “That’s how it’s been from the beginning of, how can I say, when God created the heaven and the earth. He created Adam and Eve at the same time. But as far as me being against blacks, no I’m not.”

    One thing I have never regretted in my life is moving away from Michigan.
    smeagolheart
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    edited August 2019
    Ammar wrote: »

    When I read about it in a newspaper it was correctly reported in the full context, e.g. that it was made to a congress woman claiming that he encourages sexual violence and who responded affirmatively when Bolsonaro asked her if she was calling him a rapist.

    No, she din't said that he encourages sexual violence, this type of attack, Bolsonaro always answered this type of things with arguments. She CLEARLY accused/insulted him of being an rapist and he said it in a rage moment.

    You can see he asking the "camera man" to record she accusing him of being rapist and giving an answer by rage. Bolsonaro as an congressman always defended the right of self defense for woman, chemical castration to rapists and other things that unfortunately din't got approved.

    An interesting comment
    zKYBfZe.png

    Anyway, some people UNironically said that Bolsonaro is a nazi only due the fact that one of his ancestors fought for Wehrmacht and that makes absolute no sense.

    And Grond0, in this time of the year, the forest be comes much more "dry" and this dry season is becoming far worse than the usual. This is why the fire is an bigger problem now than in January. There are a lot of factors


    "You're not attractive enough to rape"

    He NEVER said that. He said that she doesn't deserve it as an insult in answer to another insult.

    It's not even worth getting into the weeds about what is and is not worth "canceling" a person over nowadays, it's all bad faith b.s that always lands on partisan lines no matter the content of what is said nor the context. Things that are pure opinion can be like that.

    While we're on the subject of George Carlin, who I used to be a fan of, he dropped the N word on stage several times in a single bit, wrote about how he wanted to go back in time and have sex with teenagers again, and several more "offensive" things besides. Nobody ever made claim to some moral defect or harboring regressive beliefs. It was once considered left wing to believe in freedom of expression, the idea that it's acceptable to push societies boundaries, and should be protected. Now it's a one big game to hunt down those you dislike based on these deliberately arcane rules, and protect those you like from the consequences.


    this is an indictment of american culture and it's stupid rules and not an endorsement of Bolsonaro.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    edited August 2019
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Here's an article I found interesting about a recent rash of arrests in the US of potential mass shooters. The article goes into some of the problems of preventing such crimes given that free speech rights in the US allow people to threaten to commit them. One example given was of an 18 year old who had threatened to cause mass casualties at his old high school. A friend informed on him and a police search found a diary titled "Journal of an Active Shooter" along with weapons. The weapons were legal though and all charges were eventually dropped when it was decided that the expressed intention to commit a crime did not amount to the preparations for imminent action required for prosecution.

    The article refers to the fact that the US has specific laws relating to international terrorism that do criminalize this type of intention to commit a crime and reports an increase in calls to expand those laws to cover domestic terrorism as well. However, I think that has been done already - at least to some extent given that the USA Patriot Act of 2001 expanded the definition of terrorism to cover domestic as well as international. I haven't researched that Act properly, but at first glance it looks to me as though it could be used as the basis of a charge in the above sort of case. I suspect the fact that it hasn't been used in that way reflects concerns about the very broad potential application of the Act and the way it could be used to undermine 1st amendment rights - the ACLU has certainly campaigned against the Act for this reason.

    Perhaps it would be helpful in the US to have a more open conversation about constitutional rights. Those are often portrayed as absolute rights applying in all circumstances, but that's never been the case. Terrorism legislation is an example where one form of rights has been over-ridden to protect another (such as the right to life of other people). Rather than taking absolutist positions at either end of the spectrum, it might be helpful to get people together to talk about the best way to balance conflicting rights. The sort of Citizens Assembly used in Ireland to prepare the way for the referendum on abortion is an example of the way in which this approach can be used to tackle apparently irreconcilable views (the same sort of thing would be useful on 2nd amendment rights as well of course ...).

    Reading this article, I don't want free speech laws any less than what they are. And probably expanded, just not in the case of protecting potentially violent speech. I'm find with the current standard of there needing to be a clear danger. The last thing we need are more frivolous home raids, like some in the article, that lead to nothing but maybe a dead dog. Looser laws would only make them more frivolous, not less.

    I am fine however with a ban on weapon stockpiling like the article suggests.
    Grond0semiticgoddesssmeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited August 2019
    BillyYank wrote: »
    So, yesterday, this happened in Michigan:

    Candidate: Michigan City Should Be as White ‘as Possible’
    “Husband and wife need to be the same race. Same thing with kids,” she said. “That’s how it’s been from the beginning of, how can I say, when God created the heaven and the earth. He created Adam and Eve at the same time. But as far as me being against blacks, no I’m not.”

    One thing I have never regretted in my life is moving away from Michigan.

    Boo! Marysville is an Evangelical stronghold city like Grand Rapids. That's like saying Oklahoma sucks because of Tulsa or Colorado sucks because of Colorado Springs or Florida sucks because of Pensacola. What state are you in that's so much better?
    BillyYank
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Trump jabs Macron: You'd be speaking German if it wasn't for US

    "Trump has frequently called on NATO allies to pay more for their defense, saying the U.S. has been taken advantage of and too many countries rely on the U.S. to protect them."

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-jabs-macron-youd-be-speaking-german-if-it-wasnt-for-us
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    edited August 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    @SorcererV1ct0r
    I knew you were referring to Bill Clinton. Some folks must be too busy removing the motes from their opponents' eyes...

    Bill Clinton is bad too for so many reasons.

    Although he's not nearly as bad as Trump. And Trump is the one who said "grab her p****" and if SorcererV1ct0r thinks I think Trump is better than Bolsonaro, he's extremely mistaken. I focused on Bolsonaro because of several misrepresentations of him and his politics as completely benign.

    Also, regarding free speech, I highly recommend Popper's Paradox of Tolerance as a guiding principle.
    ThacoBellsmeagolheart
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    edited August 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    BillyYank wrote: »
    So, yesterday, this happened in Michigan:

    Candidate: Michigan City Should Be as White ‘as Possible’
    “Husband and wife need to be the same race. Same thing with kids,” she said. “That’s how it’s been from the beginning of, how can I say, when God created the heaven and the earth. He created Adam and Eve at the same time. But as far as me being against blacks, no I’m not.”

    One thing I have never regretted in my life is moving away from Michigan.

    Boo! Marysville is an Evangelical stronghold city like Grand Rapids. That's like saying Oklahoma sucks because of Tulsa or Colorado sucks because of Colorado Springs or Florida sucks because of Pensacola. What state are you in that's so much better?

    Sorry, Balrog, but her view is pretty pervasive. The thing is, in a town that's almost all white, it never really comes up, so you don't know what people are thinking. You don't find out until you move back to town with a mixed-race family, then the truth comes out. I'm sure it's better now than it was in the '90s, but after the experience we had, I'm only coming back for visits.

    My prediction is this lady isn't going to win, but she'll still get a significant percentage of votes. People are flipping out in public now, but in the secrecy of the voting booth, they don't have to hide anything.

    Edit: Didn't see your question until I reread it. Believe it or not, I'm in Virginia, Northern Virginia, but Virginia none the less. I was surprised when I first moved here, I had heard that this area was welcoming, but still, it was the SOUTH! My wife had lived in this area before we met, so she assured me it would be better. I remember when we first got here, thinking that there were more black people living in the area, but when I checked, it was actually significantly less. (9% vs. 13% or something like that) But there's more mixing here. Suburban neighborhoods around here are visibly more diverse. You see far more minorities here in white collar jobs and management positions. It's just a whole different "vibe" here. Also, the diversity is more diverse. You don't just see black/white/occasionally asian like we did back there.
    BelleSorciereBalrog99Grond0
Sign In or Register to comment.