Simulacrum, the way spells are memorized in original and in EE.
gorgonzola
Member Posts: 3,864
the simulacrum clone is a level drained version of the mage, so it has fewer spell slots.
but even if is inferior to the pi clone as spell caster, less spells, less effective level depending spells, has its own advantages.
he can perform physical attacks, does not freeze the original spell caster and is immune to true sight, even if dispell magic kills both. and the 2 clones can exist at the same time, while in EE the trick to have more than one pi is now impossible.
my problem with the ee version of the simulacrum is the way he loose spells compared to the original caster. in the original game the order you memorize spells before resting allow you, knowing how much spells the simulacrum has, to have complete control on the spells the simulacrum has, as he will loose the spells that are memorized last.
in ee this is no more possible, the game engine decide which spells are lost, possibly there is a set priority so some spells that the developers and not the player have set that make the clone "forget" some type of spells and keep others independently by the order that they were memorized. this probably happens cause in the original game at the moment you select the spells to memorize they respect the order you chose them, ie is possible to select 2 magic missiles, then a protection from evil and last other mm, so if the clone can cast 3 lev 1 spells will have 2 mm and 1 pfe loosing the other mm. in ee all the mm will be put in the ui next to each other so the clone will have all mm but will not be able to cast pfe.
this imo greatly nerf the usefulness of the simulacrum spell, ie with a simulacrum that can cast only a lev 9 spell i can no more choose if to have it able to cast an improved alacrity to spam the lower level spells, on which i also have no more complete control, or a planetar or a spellstrike. i get a simulacrum able to do what the engine decide.
so here is the poll.
but even if is inferior to the pi clone as spell caster, less spells, less effective level depending spells, has its own advantages.
he can perform physical attacks, does not freeze the original spell caster and is immune to true sight, even if dispell magic kills both. and the 2 clones can exist at the same time, while in EE the trick to have more than one pi is now impossible.
my problem with the ee version of the simulacrum is the way he loose spells compared to the original caster. in the original game the order you memorize spells before resting allow you, knowing how much spells the simulacrum has, to have complete control on the spells the simulacrum has, as he will loose the spells that are memorized last.
in ee this is no more possible, the game engine decide which spells are lost, possibly there is a set priority so some spells that the developers and not the player have set that make the clone "forget" some type of spells and keep others independently by the order that they were memorized. this probably happens cause in the original game at the moment you select the spells to memorize they respect the order you chose them, ie is possible to select 2 magic missiles, then a protection from evil and last other mm, so if the clone can cast 3 lev 1 spells will have 2 mm and 1 pfe loosing the other mm. in ee all the mm will be put in the ui next to each other so the clone will have all mm but will not be able to cast pfe.
this imo greatly nerf the usefulness of the simulacrum spell, ie with a simulacrum that can cast only a lev 9 spell i can no more choose if to have it able to cast an improved alacrity to spam the lower level spells, on which i also have no more complete control, or a planetar or a spellstrike. i get a simulacrum able to do what the engine decide.
so here is the poll.
- Simulacrum, the way spells are memorized in original and in EE.21 votes
- i would like to have the way spells are memorized reverted to the not ee behavior, so i would have complete control on the spells the clone knows.76.19%
- i am fine with the ee behavior, makes the ui more neat and easy to control even if i loose control on the spells of the simulacrum.4.76%
- i never noticed it, but now that i know it i like more option n.114.29%
- i never noticed it, but now that i know it i like more option n.20.00%
- i don't care, i use the simulacrum clone only with my fighters thank to the helm and fighters son't cast spells.4.76%
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Comments
we posted about the same issue in the same moment
but can be as bad if you mage is level drained and looses the memorization, even if he can be restored on the spot by the cleric he can use some spells that in your battle plan are a key to win, and restoration leave those slots empty, if ee does not change it, so again you possibly have to retreat, find a spot to rest and begin again the battle. almost as annoying as to have the cleric loose the restoration spell.
an other issue of the present implementation is using items that allow to memorize more spells, like the katana a special merchant sells. unequipping it you loose those spells, but at now you don't have control on which spells are lost.
Other creature's retain their memorization order, the last spell memorized is the first spell lost when level drained or removing items that grant extra slots. It is only the display in the magebook that is misleading, as it is ordered alphabetically.
You can actually block the reordering of the clones memorizations by setting all spells to the same name, not that it's practical, and causes other problems.
but is good to know new things, thank you!
my personal problem is about the simulacrum as i use it with my mages and dual/multi and sadly there the problem is real, the solution of setting all the spells with the same name is not practical and i would really have some flexibility and control on what a clone can cast.
and don't want to install it and try now.
anyway i doubt it can fix the problem as is a ui modification, and as @semiticgod and @kjeron told before the order in which the spells are showed in the ui does not matter, for the original caster level drained the order in which they are memorized is recorded and used by the engine, so you have to remember in which order you did memorize them, thing that is no more apparent and this can be annoying in itself, but a ui change does not affect the thing.
for the spells the clone knows in ee not even the order you memorize matters, the alphabetical order is used, so a ui modification is even far less effective.
probably only a mod that patch the engine making the order you memorize work also for clones, as is anyway already remembered by the engine as it works for level draining, is the only possible fix.
i am absolutely not able to create such mod, and i don't know if even an experienced modder can do it without having access to the source code, that is kept secret for obvious reasons.
this should make happier the 90% of the voters, that like to have control on the spells simulacrum knows, and also will not make unhappy the 10% that likes to have an easy to reed interface when selecting spells.
i will wait some day before i will do it, so other people can vote or give suggestions on the proposed modification.
Turns out the simulacrum not getting the spells I want does not fit well with my strategy.
Where did you make that feature request ? I can't see it in the Feature Request forum or your account history.
https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/24030
https://support.baldursgate.com/issues/32562
We would need to get it acknowledged by an actual developer and fixed in the next version (2.6), as I don't think a next next version will come any time soon since Beamdog is focused on the console release.
I've seen a developer acknowledge that simulacrum level needs to be fixed (again) for 2.6, so while they are at it...
i sent you a pm with the issue number.
Please fix this!!!
the present EE behavior really limit the use of the clone both as a physical damage dealer (FM and M's tensor transformed clone) and as secondary mage working in tandem with the original caster, thing that is not possible with the PI clone.
EDIT: i just noticed that you did not vote the poll, i don't know if your being in the staff prevent you from doing it, your role is more to be impartial on similar stuff, but i would like to know your personal opinion on the matter.
if you decide to share it with us obviously...