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What are Your Low-Down Dirty Tricks?

HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
edited May 2019 in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Hi folks! Been awhile. I'm curious what low-down dirty (cheap?) tricks you've discovered in your many years of playing these games. Let the cheese commence!

- Killing *insert random creature / character* without losing Rep: A big one on my evil playthroughs. Simply use one of the Charm Cloaks to charm them, and then have an encountered monster in the area you are in do the killing for you. My favorite area to use this arguably is the Nashkel Fair with the Potion Vendor. Charm him, leave, find a kobold, get attacked, run into his tent - Kobold follows. Charge vendor forward. Let Kobold kill him, then kill the little demon imp.

- Baeloth Overkill... I mean Barrityl as your evil party mouthpiece: Not really a trick, but definite cheese (I mean this particular Drow is already a bit OP let's be honest). 16 Base Charisma... Move him to the party leader while you do any serious buying of magic items. Give him the Charisma Tome (+1), 17... Give him a Charm Cloak (+2), 19.... Put one of the many friends scrolls you find in his Quick Item Slot (like a potion). Cast Friends. 25 Charisma. Before doing this I recommend getting your party Rep to at least a "10" to ditch negatives from it. Evil folks still don't complain at a 10 which is Avg. Proceed to buy a Light Crossbow of Speed from Taerom for like 8,000 gold.

- Casting Skull Traps and Glyphs of Warding before set encounters: I mean this one is a straight up exploit of you knowing what's coming. Example: Adoy Enclave fight. Cast Skull Trap and Glyphs of Warding in the north part of the room prior to Ekandor arriving with his goons. Trigger the fight. Watch them teleport in and basically explode after the dialogue.

- Charming spellcaster enemies in fights and either casting their spells on themselves or just bleeding them dry before killing them.

- Killing Brage and Nalin after the Brage Quest for 1400 EXP each, and no rep loss... I've submitted this as a bug quite a few times, but historically its always been there.

- Charming Oublek in Nashkel, running him north (out of the sight of guards), and then killing him after all bounties are cashed in.


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Comments

  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 222
    edited May 2019
    Garrick goes shopping (part 1): recruit Garrick momentarily once you are past 32k XP. Level him up to L6 to get his lore and pick pockets increases. Memorise identify spell in all lvl 1 slots. Rest and identify everything you have got with lore, use identify spells otherwise. Remove him from party. Every time you return to Beregost you can repeat this and then sell your unwanted identified items. If you did not pick pocket Algernon's Cloak yet Garrick can take care of that, perhaps with a luck spell buff that you can assign to his lvl 2 spell slots.

    Garrick goes shopping (part 2): You can do this with Garrick or any other throwaway thief NPC that you don't want permanently. Assign all thief points on level up to pick pockets. Go to Nashkel Carnival with 2 potions of master thievery (and agility potion if you like). Sell all your valuable equipped items that you can and steal them back. Steal anything else usable that you want, esp. the potion vendor. Remember that fenced items can be sold in BG city. Drop the thief if you used one, otherwise return to Beregost with Garrick for part 3 and identify-botting as needed.

    Garrick goes shopping (part 3): With your surplus cash from part 2, donate to get your rep as high as reasonably possible (or at least, to eliminate price penalty which means Rep 10). Good/neutral groups can save some plus rep quests to ensure that Rep 20 is reached for this step. Garrick can cast Lvl 1 spell friends to add 6 to his 15 Cha. You now have deep pockets and the best shop discount that you can. Buy all the big ticket items that you are lacking from Thalantyr and/or Thunderhammer and/or Ulgoths Beard. Drop Garrick in whatever location suits you best for future use after that. Evil parties might need to drop their rep again after this point. Do what has to be done. If Firebead Elvenhair is still alive that is a convenient option. You might be strong enough at this point to "help" Drizzt also.
    Post edited by Very_BigSword on
  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 222
    edited May 2019
    I consider this smart play rather than cheese, but i enjoy minor sequencer with specialist mages to maximise the saving throw penalties:
    Dynaheir: Web/Web = 2 saves per round with -4 penalty while in area of effect
    Edwin: Grease/Glitterdust = -2 penalty on both saves. Slowed down melee attackers can be picked off at distance, blinded archers or spellcasters cannot target. Not as good as Web/Web but more party friendly.
    Quayle: Blindness/Spook = save at -2 for Blindness and [-2 plus the additional penalties for caster level] on Spook. Woof. Surgically disable your most potent single enemy temporarily.
    Xzar: Horror/YourChoice AOE or Ghoul Touch/Chill Touch = I'm joking about the second one of course! Unfortunate lack of synergy for Necromancers in low level AoE save vs effect spells.
    Xan: No sequencer for our enchanters unfortunately. But he can cast Greater Malison. If one of the other mages is also in the party cast it just before their sequencer to stack an additional -4 penalty on top! Great with Dynaheir's web and Edwin's grease as enemies will have to make additional penalised saving throws.

    And here is some real cheese for the late game. Assassin archer using poison weapon ability and detonation arrows. Cast greater malison first. Poisoned enemies are slowed down by the damage ticks and casters should be disabled. Note that the poison over time effect can only be applied once per round.
    Post edited by Very_BigSword on
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Very_BigSword , You'd better check the feedback scroll on some of those combos to confirm that two save rolls are being made. I'm pretty sure enemies make one single save roll against every sequencer thrown at them, making it a waste to stack multiple copies of save-or-else spells.

    It should work with the double Webs, but those other combos of the same spell stacked are no stronger than single casts of the same spells. There's some advantage to combining different save-or-else spells, because if the target fails the save, they'll be affected by all of the spells.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,460
    Potentially you can take advantage of that sequencer behavior to play another dirty trick. For instance chromatic orbs are normally easy to save against due to the +6 saving throw, but if that spell is combined with another the enemy doesn't get the benefit of the bonus ...
  • xizorxizor Member Posts: 89
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Potentially you can take advantage of that sequencer behavior to play another dirty trick. For instance chromatic orbs are normally easy to save against due to the +6 saving throw, but if that spell is combined with another the enemy doesn't get the benefit of the bonus ...

    Wait, so what happens when you use Spook and Chromatic Orb in a sequencer at high level?
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,460
    edited May 2019
    Abusing sequencers is not something I've used, but I think what happens is that the save is based on whichever projectile reaches the target first. Chromatic orb is not really a fast-moving projectile, but spook is a particularly slow one - so the target would save at +6. If you wanted to abuse it I would suggest using something that doesn't offer a save, such as melf's acid arrow. Potentially that would mean there would be no save against chromatic orb either.

    I'm not certain that would work, however. I'm pretty sure no save would be displayed, but it's possible that the sequencer behavior is just limiting what's displayed and saving throws would still take place in the background. Someone more knowledgeable in how the game engine works (such as @kjeron or @Bubb might be able to confirm what would happen).

    Edit: I did a quick test on the behavior and it looks to me like it is now possible for sequencers to use and display more than one saving throw for separate effects ...
    Post edited by Grond0 on
  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 222
    BelgarathMTH wrote: »
    @Very_BigSword , You'd better check the feedback scroll on some of those combos to confirm that two save rolls are being made. I'm pretty sure enemies make one single save roll against every sequencer thrown at them, making it a waste to stack multiple copies of save-or-else spells.

    It should work with the double Webs, but those other combos of the same spell stacked are no stronger than single casts of the same spells. There's some advantage to combining different save-or-else spells, because if the target fails the save, they'll be affected by all of the spells.

    Good points. I was not seeing enough from the feedback to understand that this was happening. Based on your comment and others below i have edited my post.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,460
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    - the next one is also another twofer in wauken's promenade, in the shop where there is a weapon smith and an armor smith ( i believe they are above ribald, one is a dwarf, another is a fat man ) this one isnt too bad, and luckily they will go hostile one at a time which is nice, so you can get 2 out of this place, the only draw back again is that once both of these shop keepers are hostile you wont be buying or selling items from them again ( you lose REP for their demise, but i never did try charming them though, but its not like they had anything super good anyhow )

    You can buy 80 arrows of dispelling there (the best source of those in the game), which some people find very useful.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847
    To block Lothander from escaping after handing over the geas scroll, just place a character in front of the stairs. Lothander will try (and fail) to shove them aside, so you have about 1 round to kill or disable him before the game de-spawns him by force. I prefer to use the Wand of Paralyzation because of its hefty -4 save and, if it works, he will be forced to stand there for 1 turn without getting de-spawned, making him easy prey.
  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 168
    Very_BigSword wrote: »
    Garrick goes shopping (part 1)
    <snip>
    Garrick goes shopping (part 2)
    <snip>
    Garrick goes shopping (part 3)
    <snip>

    Or just recruit and keep Garrick. After all, he's awesome.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,901
    "Brave, Brave Sir Garrick
    Sir Garrick led the way
    Brave, Brave Sir Garrick
    Sir Garrick ran away"

    Guaranteed to make you laugh, especially with the choice of tune.

    To hear that, you need him to fail a morale check - which means that he's not singing, and he's just taken a lot of damage. For me, that was a double hit from a lightning bolt for about 50 damage, in the doppleganger level of Durlag's tower.

    The party in question used him mainly as a fourth archer using the light crossbow of speed, a luck booster and fear blocker with his song, and an identification specialist.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,460
    edited May 2019
    jmerry wrote: »
    Actually, you can cultivate that source to buy as many of those arrows as you can afford. As long as the merchant has at least one stack left, selling that type of arrows back to them will restock them - at one stack per arrow. Perter starts with two stacks of 40 arrows of dispelling; if you buy one, then sell those 40 arrows back, he'll have 41 stacks of 40. Repeat whenever he runs low.
    Or, since we're talking dirty tricks, you could just steal them :p.

    Flashburn wrote: »
    To block Lothander from escaping after handing over the geas scroll, just place a character in front of the stairs. Lothander will try (and fail) to shove them aside, so you have about 1 round to kill or disable him before the game de-spawns him by force. I prefer to use the Wand of Paralyzation because of its hefty -4 save and, if it works, he will be forced to stand there for 1 turn without getting de-spawned, making him easy prey.

    Grease works well to prevent him getting to the stairs, or alternatively you could charm him with the nymph cloak before talking to him - he won't then even try to get away. With a full party or summons available you can also just surround him to stop him moving of course.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,901
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Or, since we're talking dirty tricks, you could just steal them :p.
    Not all of them. This is about buying and reselling to keep the merchants stocked, and the merchants you want to do this with don't generally accept fenced goods. You'll have to legitimately buy a stack every so often.
    Now, you can steal the stacks you intend to use rather than sell back. This allows for an effective discount of about 98% on that unlimited supply of arrows (if sold in stacks of 40).

    Also, not all merchants can be stolen from. Those Fire Arrows +2 I was talking about? You can't steal from Halbazzar Drin.
  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    I always wonder why people go to the trouble of using exploits like that, especially to get unlimited money. Why waste all that time on a lame exploit? If you're cheating anyway, you might as well console 1000000 gold in...
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,083
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    I always wonder why people go to the trouble of using exploits like that, especially to get unlimited money. Why waste all that time on a lame exploit? If you're cheating anyway, you might as well console 1000000 gold in...

    Because using an exploit is legitimate. It's something you can actually do in the game, not a cheat.
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 1,063
    @OlvynChuru Do you consider it cheating to access the game options hidden in the .lua file?
    Game options such critical hits shaking the screen? Or weather?
    If you answered No to this question, then the fact that the debug mode is available in that same set of options, makes it not cheating by your definition. So the distinction remains moot.

    If Yes, then I will gladly "cheat" because I hate the screenshake a lot.
  • Gatekeep3rGatekeep3r Member Posts: 123
    edited May 2019
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    I always wonder why people go to the trouble of using exploits like that, especially to get unlimited money. Why waste all that time on a lame exploit? If you're cheating anyway, you might as well console 1000000 gold in...

    Because using an exploit is legitimate. It's something you can actually do in the game, not a cheat.

    It's called an 'exploit' for a reason. You exploit things in the game that either haven't been coded correctly, or oversights by the programmers.

    Don't get me wrong, I have no real issue with it. Everyone can play the game as they see fit. Personally I just don't see a difference between selling-stealing-selling back and using AddGold. The end result is the same and both ways aren't meant to be used by players. The only real difference is that using the exploit takes a lot more time. Time that can be used for actually playing the game.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,460
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    Gatekeep3r wrote: »
    I always wonder why people go to the trouble of using exploits like that, especially to get unlimited money. Why waste all that time on a lame exploit? If you're cheating anyway, you might as well console 1000000 gold in...

    Because using an exploit is legitimate. It's something you can actually do in the game, not a cheat.

    It's called an 'exploit' for a reason. You exploit things in the game that either haven't been coded correctly, or oversights by the programmers.

    Don't get me wrong, I have no real issue with it. Everyone can play the game as they see fit. Personally I just don't see a difference between selling-stealing-selling back and using AddGold. The end result is the same and both ways aren't meant to be used by players. The only real difference is that using the exploit takes a lot more time. Time that can be used for actually playing the game.

    That assumes that developers didn't consciously allow this tactic and I'm not convinced about that. It's obvious that they intended to allow stolen items to be sold as most shopkeepers specifically disallow that, while others are coded differently to permit it. I don't think it would have been difficult to prevent items being repeatedly stolen - for instance those could just not appear in the shopkeeper's inventory (which would also make RP sense: why would a shopkeeper put items they knew to be stolen into their public inventory?). Given that such action was not taken, it seems more likely to me that this fairly obvious tactic was considered and allowed, than that developers simply never realized the possibility.
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 3,901
    Back to more combat-oriented dirty tricks - I like casting a Silence 15' (or two, because he saves a lot) on Davaeorn from just out of range, especially if I've got Yeslick in the party. He wouldn't be interested in talking to that mage who imprisoned him, or allowing a fair fight - just kill him.

    If the Silence succeeds, it breaks his script; he just stands there and lets you kill him without going hostile. That's the really dirty part of this trick.
  • Very_BigSwordVery_BigSword Member Posts: 222
    Suffice to say that it should not be possible to steal from the inventory of a fence. Obviously you can get unlimited gold if that were allowed which it should not be. In unmodded BG1 there are two fences who cannot be stolen from IIRC. So the trick I outlined above is just selling and stealing back the items that you want to use actively and pocketing the cash. If you can be bothered, a bunch of stolen but unwanted items can be stored and sold to a fence in Chapter 5 onwards, once.

    I must admit that sometimes I just do the stealing spree in Nashkel for potions and one or two other nice to use items then console in the money I would have gotten from selling and stealing back all my equipped gear. So I can spend the time actually playing. With good aligned high rep parties I don't even bother with the gold since I can never spend it all due to the discounts.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    2xWeb from out of enemies field of vision and Wand of Fire. You don't need anything else for BG1 until Sarevok.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,006
    Skatan wrote: »
    2xWeb from out of enemies field of vision and Wand of Fire. You don't need anything else for BG1 until Sarevok.
    demonknight ;)
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,083
    Skatan wrote: »
    2xWeb from out of enemies field of vision and Wand of Fire. You don't need anything else for BG1 until Sarevok.

    That strategy also lets you handle a large part of Siege of Dragonspear.
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    edited May 2019
    My favorite is running in and out of doors and up and down stairs (area changes). Allows me to win in the Nashkal fair against the mage in the tent at low level and to make sure the arch druid insect plague cannot cast. Also allows me to separate enemies and deal with them in smaller groups. It is especially good against the elemental lich's in BG2EE in not letting spells work.
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,331
    It's been mentioned before, but I just get a cackle out of the old "lay dozens of Thief traps where the enemy is going to spawn" cheese method of dealing with tough fights. Liches? Boom. Dragons? Boom. Demogorgon? BOOMBOOMBOOM. It's by far the most compelling reason to bring Yoshimo with you in the early parts of SoA. (I only wish that there was a way you could deliberately select lower level versions of his Special Snares instead of being stuck with the useless Resilient Sphere or Maze variants.)
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