Unpopular opinion, i don't find female drow attractive
Try the dudes, then.
I never liked the blue tint most artists used for the Drow. Todd Lockwood used a more realistic skin tone for Starlight & Shadows, and Liriel Baenre looks gorgeous. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tangled_Webs
Unpopular opinion, i don't find female drow attractive
Try the dudes, then.
I never liked the blue tint most artists used for the Drow. Todd Lockwood used a more realistic skin tone for Starlight & Shadows, and Liriel Baenre looks gorgeous. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tangled_Webs
Brown skin colour is derived from sunlight. It protects the being from the effects of too much sun. However, an underground race needs as much light as possible to process the vitamin D and the skin colouration should therefore be as white as possible, Nordic only more so.
Unpopular opinion, i don't find female drow attractive
Try the dudes, then.
I never liked the blue tint most artists used for the Drow. Todd Lockwood used a more realistic skin tone for Starlight & Shadows, and Liriel Baenre looks gorgeous. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tangled_Webs
"More realistic skin tone"
...are there better examples because based of the only two pics on the link, that is quite literally inaccurate. The very skin tone on that book cover is a very desaturated, toned down shade of violet. I'll emit that at first glance it could be mistaken for skin somewhat darker than even mine but that mostly due to how the mind works and the softness of the rendering technique.
I think drow should have a wide variety of skin tones. Otherwise the dark skin/white hair theme must have some root cause outside of science. Their foul nature, for instance, being reflected in their appearance.
Not only Drow, Duergar and svirfneblin have tipically dark or brown skin. I think they took the "Dark counterparts" trope too far. More sense for them to be fair-skinned if they live underground and have light blindness penalties.
At least the WOW night elves live in the surface.
I think drow should have a wide variety of skin tones. Otherwise the dark skin/white hair theme must have some root cause outside of science. Their foul nature, for instance, being reflected in their appearance.
Not I'm not the biggest dnd lore but, but didn't their skin tone come about from when their...sub race of elves actually turned to worshipping loith and using magic granted to them by her. I remember reading something like that about them.
really drow should be more pale as they live underground and never see the sun.
That's using logic and science though, when has high old world fantasy ever used that?
Assuming that fantasy is real, you can't make someone be frozen to death by trowing someone into the sun for eg. Fantasy needs to have some consistency.
And yes, pale skinned guys tends to suffer a lot on cold climates. This applies to humans, this applies to animals, and if fantasy races exists, will apply to then. PoE had an interesting type of elf. The pale elves https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pale_elf
We don't know whether D&D elves have identical metabolism to humans, so it's possible that their skin contains no melanin or that their skin tone doesn't play a role in their vitamin D regulation.
But generally, I think even discussing metabolism and vitamin regulation in a fantasy setting is silly and focusing on such details can unwittingly subvert the strengths of the genre and turn them into weaknesses.
Personally, I like a fantasy setting to explain racial physical aberrations in mythical and legendary terms, rather than scientific and evolutionary ones. For instance, the following is an excerpt from the Elder Scrolls Unofficial Pages describing the origin of the Dunmer (the dark elves of that setting):
"Before that, they were the Chimer, a race of elves with skin like pale gold that followed the prophet Veloth to Resdayn (present-day Morrowind) seeking religious freedom. But the Daedra Azura (the Goddess of Dusk and Dawn and the patron of Nerevar), became angry and cursed the Chimer, turning their eyes red and their skin ashen. Nerevar's councilors, his general Vivec, the sorcerer Sotha Sil, and his wife Almalexia, broke an oath they had sworn to Nerevar and Azura by stealing divine power for themselves. When this Tribunal of new living gods showed no remorse to Azura, she cursed them and all Chimer, and tied together the fate of the Dunmer and Tribunal until the end of time."
really drow should be more pale as they live underground and never see the sun.
That's using logic and science though, when has high old world fantasy ever used that?
Assuming that fantasy is real,
That's called a oxymoron... If it's real, its not fantasy... If it's fantasy its not real. That's like saying that if something is unfaithfully faithful.
That's also not the same as saying something can be realistic with some fantasy elements, or something is fantasy with a few realistic components. One of the two is ultimately going to be the most dominate narrative.
Also consistency doesn't equate to realistic and while I agree consistency in a story is a good thing, what you just said has no bearings here since again its all fantasy... You can cast a freaking fireball spell underwater in kill a group of merpeople in bg.
Heck I can draw fantasy art of someone being frozen to death on the surface of the sun and no one will try to scientific prove why that won't work because again... It's fantasy. By definition it's meant to be unrealistic.
DragonKing You missed my point. I said assuming that things that doesn't exist exist. IMO is like assume "what if people had guns on ancient roman?", assuming that something that doesn't exist exists doesn't means that the world should be devoid of logic.
I think drow should have a wide variety of skin tones. Otherwise the dark skin/white hair theme must have some root cause outside of science. Their foul nature, for instance, being reflected in their appearance.
I wouldnt encourage writers to relate dark skin to being foul.
I think drow should have a wide variety of skin tones. Otherwise the dark skin/white hair theme must have some root cause outside of science. Their foul nature, for instance, being reflected in their appearance.
I wouldnt encourage writers to relate dark skin to being foul.
Well, svirfneblin have dark skin but they usually aren't evil.
So in the game there are blacks who are good, bad, and indiffernt, just like all races.
The problem that I CAN see is that race of itself is deemed to be a cause of alignment.
Now I know this is fantasy, but dubbing any race evil is likely to cause upset.
In RL there are good, bad and indifferent of every race.
No, sapient races are generally not biologically predisposed to evil. But social inheritance can instill evil values as a standard into a race across several generations.
It would be more accurate to say 'drow society is evil' rather than 'drow as a race are evil'.
By the way, I actually like quite a few drow. Phaeraun Mizzrym and Liriel Baenre are two of my favorite characters in FR literature.
No, sapient races are generally not biologically predisposed to evil. But social inheritance can instill evil values as a standard into a race across several generations.
It would be more accurate to say 'drow society is evil' rather than 'drow as a race are evil'.
.
I found interesting what 5e Volo's guide says about the Illithid , that they're aligned as evil because they can't feel any kind of empathy , even when they torture their victims its in the name of experimentation. Id say that they arent considered neutral because a colony wont ever be friendly to "lesser races" , we're just food and potential slaves to them.
No, sapient races are generally not biologically predisposed to evil. But social inheritance can instill evil values as a standard into a race across several generations.
It would be more accurate to say 'drow society is evil' rather than 'drow as a race are evil'.
.
I strongly disagree. Genetic and supernatural effects affects sapient races on D&D and on Pathfinder. You can see by the description of certain things like feytouched that tends to be more chaotic, tieflings that tends to be evil, etc. And the experiences affects your character a lot. Not just the "society". For example, an Elf in a Chaotic good "tribal society" that lived for 500 years in this society but had his entire "tribe" enslaved and tortured by humans can start to hate humans.
If i an a DM and you wanna play as a good dhampir for eg, then i need to hear about your character background.
In some cases, the character can't even have the same morals. On Overlord novel for eg, the main character is affected by his lich template and fells nothing about human beings. For Ainz shot an fireball into humans is just like shot an fireball into an pile of paper to see what happens. IRL some humans are incapable of feeling sympathy by some diseases, like psychopathy and in other cases, even under massive dountrination, they flee from north korea, they help jews in nazi germany, etc. On a fantasy world, i can rule that the "undead"template affects humans in a similar way that some diseases affects humans.
they live underground
the sun hurts them
drow should be pale vampires.
On PoE 2, there are only wood elves and pale elves. And finally someone understood that just like the extreme north is cold, the extreme south is also cold ", a huge southern expanse of polar ic" https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pale_elf And the most surprising fact, obsidian is from US.
But Elves on D&D are based on Norse mythology. Dökkálfar/Ljósálfar
Talking about myths that originated classes/races, only i found ironic that Warlock learn from an "patron" and make an pact when The most commonly accepted etymology derives warlock from the Old English wǣrloga meaning "oathbreaker" or "deceiver". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlock
Would be interesting if an wizard that has an mentor and betrays his mentor is by some Mistral curse turned into an warlock. Or if in the rare case of someone trying to be dominated by nine hells and only being partially "corrupted", so breaking the hell oath by his will power.
Unpopular opinion, i don't find female drow attractive
Try the dudes, then.
I never liked the blue tint most artists used for the Drow. Todd Lockwood used a more realistic skin tone for Starlight & Shadows, and Liriel Baenre looks gorgeous. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tangled_Webs
"More realistic skin tone"
...are there better examples because based of the only two pics on the link, that is quite literally inaccurate. The very skin tone on that book cover is a very desaturated, toned down shade of violet. I'll emit that at first glance it could be mistaken for skin somewhat darker than even mine but that mostly due to how the mind works and the softness of the rendering technique.
I have the book, and on the cover her skin tone looks natural. It's hard to find color corrected versions on the net.
The whole "Drow are dark skinned because they're evil" story line always bugged me. In a homebrew world I put together back in the '80s, Drow were dark skinned because they were descended from elves of the notSerengetti. They delved too deep under notKilimanjaro.
IIRC their hair and skin tone are part of the curse cast upon them when Lloth got banished from the Seldarine and their followers were expelled from the surface to Hor'Oloth (Underdark).
Calling @DarkShinobi to help my memory as he is like an elven Wikipedia.
Unpopular opinion, i don't find female drow attractive
Try the dudes, then.
I never liked the blue tint most artists used for the Drow. Todd Lockwood used a more realistic skin tone for Starlight & Shadows, and Liriel Baenre looks gorgeous. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tangled_Webs
"More realistic skin tone"
...are there better examples because based of the only two pics on the link, that is quite literally inaccurate. The very skin tone on that book cover is a very desaturated, toned down shade of violet. I'll emit that at first glance it could be mistaken for skin somewhat darker than even mine but that mostly due to how the mind works and the softness of the rendering technique.
I have the book, and on the cover her skin tone looks natural. It's hard to find color corrected versions on the net.
The whole "Drow are dark skinned because they're evil" story line always bugged me. In a homebrew world I put together back in the '80s, Drow were dark skinned because they were descended from elves of the notSerengetti. They delved too deep under notKilimanjaro.
I mean I'm going to be honest, all that plays into the science off color, psychologically each color has a mental effect on us on a general level. Keyword there is general, not individual. Each color and the tones of dark and light all have both a positive and negative representation.
Red:
Romance, power, passion, strength
War, violence, anger
This is just a small general break down of colors and value representation but since the beginning of time blackness has representing the unknowing, the embodiment of mankind's fear due to lack of understanding. So making the drow dark-skinned and evil just makes sense if not cliche.
Also without carrying that picture in to photo shop and color checking it directly myself that is still a violet skin tone, its the handling of light that makes it look the way it does. You can actually make nearly Any color look like realistic skin if you know how to paint light correctly. Orange, yellow, read all become believable skin colors.
It also helps that all those colors from violets to reds and greens are actually in our skin xD
Comments
The dudes too.
I don't like wow(classic or retail) but the most attractive fantasy race that i saw in my life was blood elves
I never liked the blue tint most artists used for the Drow. Todd Lockwood used a more realistic skin tone for Starlight & Shadows, and Liriel Baenre looks gorgeous.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tangled_Webs
Brown skin colour is derived from sunlight. It protects the being from the effects of too much sun. However, an underground race needs as much light as possible to process the vitamin D and the skin colouration should therefore be as white as possible, Nordic only more so.
"More realistic skin tone"
...are there better examples because based of the only two pics on the link, that is quite literally inaccurate. The very skin tone on that book cover is a very desaturated, toned down shade of violet. I'll emit that at first glance it could be mistaken for skin somewhat darker than even mine but that mostly due to how the mind works and the softness of the rendering technique.
At least the WOW night elves live in the surface.
Assuming that fantasy is real, you can't make someone be frozen to death by trowing someone into the sun for eg. Fantasy needs to have some consistency.
And yes, pale skinned guys tends to suffer a lot on cold climates. This applies to humans, this applies to animals, and if fantasy races exists, will apply to then. PoE had an interesting type of elf. The pale elves https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pale_elf
But generally, I think even discussing metabolism and vitamin regulation in a fantasy setting is silly and focusing on such details can unwittingly subvert the strengths of the genre and turn them into weaknesses.
Personally, I like a fantasy setting to explain racial physical aberrations in mythical and legendary terms, rather than scientific and evolutionary ones. For instance, the following is an excerpt from the Elder Scrolls Unofficial Pages describing the origin of the Dunmer (the dark elves of that setting):
That's also not the same as saying something can be realistic with some fantasy elements, or something is fantasy with a few realistic components. One of the two is ultimately going to be the most dominate narrative.
Also consistency doesn't equate to realistic and while I agree consistency in a story is a good thing, what you just said has no bearings here since again its all fantasy... You can cast a freaking fireball spell underwater in kill a group of merpeople in bg.
Heck I can draw fantasy art of someone being frozen to death on the surface of the sun and no one will try to scientific prove why that won't work because again... It's fantasy. By definition it's meant to be unrealistic.
Yes and I was being facetious with my response that you had quoted.
I wouldnt encourage writers to relate dark skin to being foul.
Well, svirfneblin have dark skin but they usually aren't evil.
The problem that I CAN see is that race of itself is deemed to be a cause of alignment.
Now I know this is fantasy, but dubbing any race evil is likely to cause upset.
In RL there are good, bad and indifferent of every race.
It would be more accurate to say 'drow society is evil' rather than 'drow as a race are evil'.
By the way, I actually like quite a few drow. Phaeraun Mizzrym and Liriel Baenre are two of my favorite characters in FR literature.
I found interesting what 5e Volo's guide says about the Illithid , that they're aligned as evil because they can't feel any kind of empathy , even when they torture their victims its in the name of experimentation. Id say that they arent considered neutral because a colony wont ever be friendly to "lesser races" , we're just food and potential slaves to them.
I strongly disagree. Genetic and supernatural effects affects sapient races on D&D and on Pathfinder. You can see by the description of certain things like feytouched that tends to be more chaotic, tieflings that tends to be evil, etc. And the experiences affects your character a lot. Not just the "society". For example, an Elf in a Chaotic good "tribal society" that lived for 500 years in this society but had his entire "tribe" enslaved and tortured by humans can start to hate humans.
If i an a DM and you wanna play as a good dhampir for eg, then i need to hear about your character background.
In some cases, the character can't even have the same morals. On Overlord novel for eg, the main character is affected by his lich template and fells nothing about human beings. For Ainz shot an fireball into humans is just like shot an fireball into an pile of paper to see what happens. IRL some humans are incapable of feeling sympathy by some diseases, like psychopathy and in other cases, even under massive dountrination, they flee from north korea, they help jews in nazi germany, etc. On a fantasy world, i can rule that the "undead"template affects humans in a similar way that some diseases affects humans.
the sun hurts them
drow should be pale vampires.
On PoE 2, there are only wood elves and pale elves. And finally someone understood that just like the extreme north is cold, the extreme south is also cold ", a huge southern expanse of polar ic" https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Pale_elf And the most surprising fact, obsidian is from US.
But Elves on D&D are based on Norse mythology. Dökkálfar/Ljósálfar
Talking about myths that originated classes/races, only i found ironic that Warlock learn from an "patron" and make an pact when The most commonly accepted etymology derives warlock from the Old English wǣrloga meaning "oathbreaker" or "deceiver". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlock
Would be interesting if an wizard that has an mentor and betrays his mentor is by some Mistral curse turned into an warlock. Or if in the rare case of someone trying to be dominated by nine hells and only being partially "corrupted", so breaking the hell oath by his will power.
This one's a little better:
https://www.audible.com/pd/Tangled-Webs-Audiobook/B00AWV9KEE
I have the book, and on the cover her skin tone looks natural. It's hard to find color corrected versions on the net.
The whole "Drow are dark skinned because they're evil" story line always bugged me. In a homebrew world I put together back in the '80s, Drow were dark skinned because they were descended from elves of the notSerengetti. They delved too deep under notKilimanjaro.
IIRC their hair and skin tone are part of the curse cast upon them when Lloth got banished from the Seldarine and their followers were expelled from the surface to Hor'Oloth (Underdark).
Calling @DarkShinobi to help my memory as he is like an elven Wikipedia.
I mean I'm going to be honest, all that plays into the science off color, psychologically each color has a mental effect on us on a general level. Keyword there is general, not individual. Each color and the tones of dark and light all have both a positive and negative representation.
Black:
Classiness, formality, solidity
death, unknowability, darkness
White:
Purity, innocence
Isolation, emptiness
Blue:
Tranquility, honorability,
Depression, dispassionate,
Green:
Nurturing, healthy,
Envy, Naivete,
Purple:
Noble, spiritual, wealthy, ambition
Moody, mysterious, volatile
Yellow:
Joy, energy, intellect
Cowardice, irresponsibility
Red:
Romance, power, passion, strength
War, violence, anger
This is just a small general break down of colors and value representation but since the beginning of time blackness has representing the unknowing, the embodiment of mankind's fear due to lack of understanding. So making the drow dark-skinned and evil just makes sense if not cliche.
Also without carrying that picture in to photo shop and color checking it directly myself that is still a violet skin tone, its the handling of light that makes it look the way it does. You can actually make nearly Any color look like realistic skin if you know how to paint light correctly. Orange, yellow, read all become believable skin colors.
It also helps that all those colors from violets to reds and greens are actually in our skin xD