No worries. The real screw-up happened a long time ago when BG2 was first written. I know at a certain point you have to shove the player down the main plot line (or not, as the TES games proved...), but I always felt that BG2's artificial time pressure sucked. Worse, if you wait until chapter 6 to start doing all of those Athkatla quests, you will probably be vastly overpowered - perhaps aside from Gaxx and a handful of others. I know I saved the Haer'dalis planar rescue quest until I got back and it was like clearing the weeds from the garden compared to the first time I played that area in chapter 2.
Which puts you in the crappy dilemma of doing the quests and having Imoen being vastly behind the party, or saving them for later so she has something to do, but having the quests be absurdly easy. The only saving grace is Watcher's Keep - though I always do the first three levels in chapter 2 or 3 so I have the gear for chapters 4 and 5. Of course, when I first played the game, ToB didn't exist yet, so this was a more pointed choice back then.
As much as I love the game, I have felt this way since the first time I played it back when it was first released, and my sense of dismay hasn't lessened.
That's what I don't like about waiting until chapter 6. Firstly, is it really possible to play all those quests in full length or are some of them no longer available? Secondly, I don't think balancing is that good if done that way, Underdark is too difficult and the rest bis too easy, and thirdly, in chapter 6
the PC (and Imoen) are missing their soul AND the elven city is in danger of being destroyed
so you do not really feel like it is time for idling, either.
What happens if I choose not to dual Imoen? I mean, I reckon she remains a pure Thief but what about dialog that specifically refers to her being a Mage?
For SoD, her telling about magic studies with Duke Jannath will only be available if she has a M proficiency.
In BGII, she will cast the magic missiles and be taken by the Cowled Wizards anyway - this is a general problem for continuous BGT and EET game, though.
Which other direct references do you have in mind? Since all "Imoen is in Spellhdold" references are gone with this mod, there is little to no other direct reference I am aware of.
I had a banter with Valygar in mind where he says she’s become a powerful Mage, but I might be confusing her with Nalia in this case—it has admittedly been a while.
In BGII, she will cast the magic missiles and be taken by the Cowled Wizards anyway - this is a general problem for continuous BGT and EET game, though.
Would it be possible to equip her with a wand of Magic Missiles at the start of SoA? After all she starts BG with one so it would be consistent (sort of).
But does the use of Wands also violate the magic ban in Athkatla? Provided that players don’t take the Wand from her during the Chateau Irenicus prologue.
An alternative route could be to grant her a Magic Missle innate ability which would be justified as an early onset Bhaalspawn power. (Props if the spell VFX can be recolored and the spell given a different name to make it feel more unique.)
Imoen could be without said power in Chateau Irenicus and just “develop it” during the cutscene. Upon rejoining the party, there could be dialog about it where Imoen speaks about how it came naturally to her even though she’d done nothing the like before; her and CHARNAME could later come to the conclusion that it is part of her Bhaalspawn heritage once the game establishes Imoen as a Bhaalspawn.
I really like the idea of Imoen having gained Magic Missile as a Bhaalspawn power but I think she would then need to be able to use it throughout the rest of the game.
I am not certain whether the use wands violates the magic ban in Athkatla but the Cowled Wizards have always seemed to me to be a "Sentence first - verdict afterward" kind of an organisation so I can happily believe that they would lock someone up without bothering to do a proper investigation. Also, they are clearly worried about Irenicus's power and since he says he will come quietly so long as they take Imoen as well, I think it is a deal they are not going to pass up in a hurry.
For me the best solution would be for Imoen to have a wand of Magic Missiles in one of her quick slots that cannot be removed while she is in Chateau Irenicus.
I wouldn’t mind her being able to use the innate for the rest of the game. It wouldn’t really be game-breaking. If she gets arrested for using a Wand but the player can then use Wands in Athkatla consequence-free, that would be a little jarring
@jastey thank you so much for making this mod.
I only just started it up and played around for a bit, but this first part of the game makes so much more sense now and really brings back the open ended world feel of BGI.
Simply because the player now decides the pace of the game, not the DM/Devs.
I'm also VERY happy with the damsel in distress trope being done away with (for the most part). It's just shoddy writing to rely on by the original developers in the first place, really.
There may be bugs or missed references that still need to altered to match this very welcome plot change, but all in all, this is now one of the mandatory mods for BG2 for me.
@Djinn
I agree. For the first time in years I have started a game of BG2 and I am really looking forward to playing it. I'm still in Chateau Irenicus (and I shouldn't really be playing at all because I should be working) but I can't wait to see how things work out.
I am now in Athkatla and Imoen has talked her way out of the clutches of the Cowled Wizards. I loved the way she did this and I really feel you captured Imoen's voice. The way the scene played out made me smile and I thought it worked perfectly.
I just met Nalia in the Copper Coronet and I noticed there is a dialogue option that suggests Imoen is still a captive:
I think this is the best mod anyone has ever made for Baldur's Gate. Seriously, I can't tell you how happy it has made me.
@Permidion_Stark thank you so much for the praise, that makes me very happy!
Thanks for the report, seems I didn't catch all instances of "friend in need" yet.
@jastey , I hope that's not too much to ask but does it add extra Imoen banters and interjections in chapter 2 and 3? I'm afraid that she doesn't have much of those officially and she might sound a little less alive that other SoA npcs . I know tjat it takes time to write those but it would be really if you did.
@DJKajuru I am planning to. Currently, the mod adds a small comment from her after she rejoins (showing she wasn't idle with all those mighty mages and their promising pockets around ), as well as comments from her to the PC's dreams where the PC can talk about her being in them.
I just noticed I forgot to mention in the readme that for this mod, I made up (EDIT: with inspiration from @Acifer ) that Imoen has dreams about the protagonist, as well. Kind of pre-pre dreams to what awaits later.
@jastey Before I started playing I assumed that you would have removed all of the dreams but I am really glad you have kept them and used them to form a closer bond between the PC and Imoen. I love the way their fates now seem entwined.
While I was playing last night I noticed a dialogue inconsistency when Anomen is talking to the PC. He mentions his sister and then speaks of Imoen as if he has never met her. Here's a screenshot of the start of the conversation thread and the moment he mentions Imoen:
It might be nice if the PC had the option to say something a bit more enthusiastic about Imoen (and sisterhood?) in reply.
@Permidion_Stark Thanks for the feedback!
This Anomen dialogue I agree I went the easiest way. What you experienced is what you would see if this dialogue would fire post-Spellhold. i.e. if Imoen is rescued etcpp. For Imoen kidnapped there is far more reply options. The original game taggs them with pre chapter 4, though, so after Spellhold this is all you'd get in an unmodded game. I just added another tag for "Imoen not kidnapped". I do agree that it comes a bit weird, though. I'll note it down and will have a look at it for future releases.
It's very minor and it works fine as it is. After all, Anomen is being self-consciously courtly in his speech and you can imagine him speaking like this about Imoen because they haven't been formally introduced.
I just met Nalia in the Copper Coronet and I noticed there is a dialogue option that suggests Imoen is still a captive:
This was a good catch, actually. I did consider it... but had a typo, so the check variable was added twice to another instance. Will be fixed in the next version.
Thanks!
And if anyone wants to enjoy this "new BGII feeling" with their most liked mod, feel free to pester the mod authors about making their mods compatible!
If it's not too late I had a suggestion. Allow an option (at install time) where Imoen hasn't been dual-classed and give her a wand of missiles. This not only solves the question of how you get her back early (she's not actually a mage, she's just a cheeky thief), but also allows you to dual her later so she gets better thief stats. It does conflict with SoD, but you could argue that she just washed out due to a poor mentor or something.
I thought of this because she's at level 7 in my current BG1 play through and I'm not planning on dualing her at all. With Aura acting as our other "M/T" (Ok, I/A), I plan to keep Imoen as a pure class thief.
Just a thought, but it would be nice to have the option of a masterclass thief in Imoen. Alternately, feel free to tell me why this is an awful idea.
It's not a terrible idea but I don't see it as content of this mod.
If you play EET or BGT you already have the possibility to leave Imoen as a pure-class thief (and no changes to the BG storyline were made for that so far).
No worries, it was just a suggestion. Unfortunately, I'm playing on an Android tablet, so I haven't even worked out how to handle SoD mods yet, never mind some of the other more encompassing mods.
However, I can always fix the problem in EEkeeper. I don't consider correcting continuity issues cheating when done at the beginning of BG2.
The mod updates to v2 with a Polish translation by memory!
Also, the BGII and SoD parts are now two independent optional components. Meaning, in EET you can keep Imoen in SoD but still play the original story in BGII, and vice versa.
Thank you to memory for the Polish translation!
Changes in v2:
-Polish version by memory
-BGII and SoD contents splitted into two optional components
-reply options Nalia, Hendak referring to Imoen missing disabled
-remark from Bodhi about captured Imoen removed
-Anomen will not refer to Imoen if she is in party (romance dialogue)
-SoD part installs correctly
-typo corrections
Very interested in trying this mod out Jastey; I've always considered your mods conceptually solid and very sensible from a plot/characterization perspective, at times more so than bioware's handling of such. The issue with Imoen being taken at the start has always been, imo, one of the glaring huge weaknesses of the entire game from both gameplay/content and plot standpoint, so I'm quite keen to try this out.
I'm slightly concerned about oddities/dialog and content from either vanilla or other mods not matching up with Imoen's new status (I would guess one would have to be extremely thorough to cover even a handful of 'standard' mods like UB) - there's a lot of dialog even in vanilla iirc that brings up Imoen's situation... but I find bioware's handling of Imoen leaves enough of a bad taste in my mouth I'm willing to give this a whirl.
I tried Imoen is Stone btw, and found it didn't quite have the intended effect for me - Stone to Flesh is easily and cheaply at MC's disposal very early on (i.e. the ring in D'Arnese Keep and scrolls everywhere); I personally found it unconvincing that petrification would make that much of a difference in the MC's motivation - I really think if this new mod works well as far as being compatible in dialog etc. with most 'essental' mods, this really would be the way to go and a new 'standard' mod install for me.
I believe I was able to work around the missing installer by copying one of the WEIDU installers and altering its name - at least it seemed to install okay. I'm definitely looking forward to trying it, as the situation with Imoen has irked me since the game was new.
Comments
Which puts you in the crappy dilemma of doing the quests and having Imoen being vastly behind the party, or saving them for later so she has something to do, but having the quests be absurdly easy. The only saving grace is Watcher's Keep - though I always do the first three levels in chapter 2 or 3 so I have the gear for chapters 4 and 5. Of course, when I first played the game, ToB didn't exist yet, so this was a more pointed choice back then.
As much as I love the game, I have felt this way since the first time I played it back when it was first released, and my sense of dismay hasn't lessened.
I think this mod provides the perfect solution.
In BGII, she will cast the magic missiles and be taken by the Cowled Wizards anyway - this is a general problem for continuous BGT and EET game, though.
Which other direct references do you have in mind? Since all "Imoen is in Spellhdold" references are gone with this mod, there is little to no other direct reference I am aware of.
Would it be possible to equip her with a wand of Magic Missiles at the start of SoA? After all she starts BG with one so it would be consistent (sort of).
An alternative route could be to grant her a Magic Missle innate ability which would be justified as an early onset Bhaalspawn power. (Props if the spell VFX can be recolored and the spell given a different name to make it feel more unique.)
Imoen could be without said power in Chateau Irenicus and just “develop it” during the cutscene. Upon rejoining the party, there could be dialog about it where Imoen speaks about how it came naturally to her even though she’d done nothing the like before; her and CHARNAME could later come to the conclusion that it is part of her Bhaalspawn heritage once the game establishes Imoen as a Bhaalspawn.
I really like the idea of Imoen having gained Magic Missile as a Bhaalspawn power but I think she would then need to be able to use it throughout the rest of the game.
I am not certain whether the use wands violates the magic ban in Athkatla but the Cowled Wizards have always seemed to me to be a "Sentence first - verdict afterward" kind of an organisation so I can happily believe that they would lock someone up without bothering to do a proper investigation. Also, they are clearly worried about Irenicus's power and since he says he will come quietly so long as they take Imoen as well, I think it is a deal they are not going to pass up in a hurry.
For me the best solution would be for Imoen to have a wand of Magic Missiles in one of her quick slots that cannot be removed while she is in Chateau Irenicus.
I only just started it up and played around for a bit, but this first part of the game makes so much more sense now and really brings back the open ended world feel of BGI.
Simply because the player now decides the pace of the game, not the DM/Devs.
I'm also VERY happy with the damsel in distress trope being done away with (for the most part). It's just shoddy writing to rely on by the original developers in the first place, really.
There may be bugs or missed references that still need to altered to match this very welcome plot change, but all in all, this is now one of the mandatory mods for BG2 for me.
I agree. For the first time in years I have started a game of BG2 and I am really looking forward to playing it. I'm still in Chateau Irenicus (and I shouldn't really be playing at all because I should be working) but I can't wait to see how things work out.
In case any of you encounter instances in the game with references to Imoen being kidnapped that I missed please do report them.
*Not @Permidion_Stark playing instead of working, of course. I do take it as a compliment, though.
I am now in Athkatla and Imoen has talked her way out of the clutches of the Cowled Wizards. I loved the way she did this and I really feel you captured Imoen's voice. The way the scene played out made me smile and I thought it worked perfectly.
I just met Nalia in the Copper Coronet and I noticed there is a dialogue option that suggests Imoen is still a captive:
I think this is the best mod anyone has ever made for Baldur's Gate. Seriously, I can't tell you how happy it has made me.
Thanks for the report, seems I didn't catch all instances of "friend in need" yet.
I just noticed I forgot to mention in the readme that for this mod, I made up (EDIT: with inspiration from @Acifer
While I was playing last night I noticed a dialogue inconsistency when Anomen is talking to the PC. He mentions his sister and then speaks of Imoen as if he has never met her. Here's a screenshot of the start of the conversation thread and the moment he mentions Imoen:
It might be nice if the PC had the option to say something a bit more enthusiastic about Imoen (and sisterhood?) in reply.
This Anomen dialogue I agree I went the easiest way. What you experienced is what you would see if this dialogue would fire post-Spellhold. i.e. if Imoen is rescued etcpp. For Imoen kidnapped there is far more reply options. The original game taggs them with pre chapter 4, though, so after Spellhold this is all you'd get in an unmodded game. I just added another tag for "Imoen not kidnapped". I do agree that it comes a bit weird, though. I'll note it down and will have a look at it for future releases.
I won’t be able to check it out for a while, but it is a definite must try for my game in the future.
And if anyone wants to enjoy this "new BGII feeling" with their most liked mod, feel free to pester the mod authors about making their mods compatible!
I thought of this because she's at level 7 in my current BG1 play through and I'm not planning on dualing her at all. With Aura acting as our other "M/T" (Ok, I/A), I plan to keep Imoen as a pure class thief.
Just a thought, but it would be nice to have the option of a masterclass thief in Imoen. Alternately, feel free to tell me why this is an awful idea.
If you play EET or BGT you already have the possibility to leave Imoen as a pure-class thief (and no changes to the BG storyline were made for that so far).
However, I can always fix the problem in EEkeeper. I don't consider correcting continuity issues cheating when done at the beginning of BG2.
Also, the BGII and SoD parts are now two independent optional components. Meaning, in EET you can keep Imoen in SoD but still play the original story in BGII, and vice versa.
Thank you to memory for the Polish translation!
Changes in v2:
-Polish version by memory
-BGII and SoD contents splitted into two optional components
-reply options Nalia, Hendak referring to Imoen missing disabled
-remark from Bodhi about captured Imoen removed
-Anomen will not refer to Imoen if she is in party (romance dialogue)
-SoD part installs correctly
-typo corrections
I'm slightly concerned about oddities/dialog and content from either vanilla or other mods not matching up with Imoen's new status (I would guess one would have to be extremely thorough to cover even a handful of 'standard' mods like UB) - there's a lot of dialog even in vanilla iirc that brings up Imoen's situation... but I find bioware's handling of Imoen leaves enough of a bad taste in my mouth I'm willing to give this a whirl.
I tried Imoen is Stone btw, and found it didn't quite have the intended effect for me - Stone to Flesh is easily and cheaply at MC's disposal very early on (i.e. the ring in D'Arnese Keep and scrolls everywhere); I personally found it unconvincing that petrification would make that much of a difference in the MC's motivation - I really think if this new mod works well as far as being compatible in dialog etc. with most 'essental' mods, this really would be the way to go and a new 'standard' mod install for me.