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[Kickstarter] Pathfinder 2: Wrath of the Righteous

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  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    I cannot help but feel the HYYYYYPE from this video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttbj_9KH2PY
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    I cannot help but feel the HYYYYYPE from this video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttbj_9KH2PY

    I must admit, the trailer does look impeessive, indeed. I'm actually intrigued with the army management, watching different armies moving around the main map looks cool. And location design looks significantly improved.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    There are some repeating areas, as I found in the beta, but they’re all just random houses that you walk into. None of the major areas are repeated.

    I personally think the legion combat is pretty fun. It’s very much like HoMM. Turn-based, tactical combat with a general that can cast spells to buff the troops or hurt the enemies. A word of warning, though: it’s pretty hard in the beginning since your army isn’t particularly strong at the start.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    Nimran wrote: »
    There are some repeating areas, as I found in the beta, but they’re all just random houses that you walk into. None of the major areas are repeated.

    I personally think the legion combat is pretty fun. It’s very much like HoMM. Turn-based, tactical combat with a general that can cast spells to buff the troops or hurt the enemies. A word of warning, though: it’s pretty hard in the beginning since your army isn’t particularly strong at the start.

    Indeed, but most of the features of the crusade are not available until game release, it seems you can built forts and support structures in your camp or the bastions you take from the demons. There are also mercenary units or generals for hire not available in the beta, it seems.
    In the beta you have to make it with Mendevian troops, hellknights and some few others.
    I cannot help but feel the HYYYYYPE from this video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttbj_9KH2PY

    Four words: Halfling riding a velociraptor.

    The state rests his case.
    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    The voiceover in that video is absolutely terrible :D So I'm guessing the writing and narrative hasn't improved as much as they thought.

    I'm pretty sure, with no training or experience whatsoever, I could do a better voiceover than the "actor" in that video.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    They have voice actors like Amelia tyler https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1624306/ She voices Wenduag and other minor characters.
    She is the voice of the narrator of BG3, Nyrissa of PF:KM, Malady of DoS2 or Eva Ritter of Amnesia, amongst many others.

    I didn´t have any particular issues with the voice acting, in the beta at least. Some, like Anevia or Wolfjit I found particularly pleasing :)
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    We already know that the lich and swarm-that-walks path would not have romance options.

    That has mixed reactions on the community
    ux9noq9e3cbo.jpg
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    edited August 2021
    The graphics look pretty great - though I'll admit the voice over wasnt great. Kind of felt like the same sort of voice over you hear when you see a 30 second mobile game ad on Twitch or Youtube.

    I do love Nyrissa's VA though. I was hyped when she came onboard BG3 to be the narrator, and am excited that she's in WotR



    About a week ago, I looked over the companion list - I dont typically like spoiling things for myself, but I wanted to have an idea of what kind of party members would be available (I sort of loathe the idea of accidentally replicating an NPC with the main character). The classes are interesting - it's pretty clear they went out of their way to switch up the NPC classes from PF:KM to WotR.

    I dont know if the beta reveals this kind of information - but from what I understand, your alignment (any choices) have a pretty big impact on the story. Does the pool of available NPCs whittle down when you make those choices (For example, I'd guess the Iconic Paladin lady isnt going to follow an evil Lich doing evil things).
    Post edited by BallpointMan on
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    Hmm, I liked the VO in the trailer. It was Alyson Leigh Rosenfeld, the VO of Octavia and now Queen Galfrey. It wasn't spectacular but pretty fine. AFAIK, many players liked Octavia's VO (me included), it's interesting to see this criticism now.

    I would also say that the narrative/writing for the trailer and for the game are usually created by different people.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    The graphics look pretty great - though I'll admit the voice over wasnt great. Kind of felt like the same sort of voice over you hear when you see a 30 second mobile game add on Twitch or Youtube.

    I do love Nyrissa's VA though. I was hyped when she came onboard BG3 to be the narrator, and am excited that she's in WotR



    About a week ago, I looked over the companion list - I dont typically like spoiling things for myself, but I wanted to have an idea of what kind of party members would be available (I sort of loathe the idea of accidentally replicating an NPC with the main character). The classes are interesting - it's pretty clear they went out of their way to switch up the NPC classes from PF:KM to WotR.

    I dont know if the beta reveals this kind of information - but from what I understand, your alignment (any choices) have a pretty big impact on the story. Does the pool of available NPCs whittle down when you make those choices (For example, I'd guess the Ironic Paladin lady isnt going to follow an evil Lich doing evil things).

    You are fighting the ultimate evil of this land in a desperate fight for survival, so evil and good allies fighting together the common menace or good people having to make tough choices are fairly common.
    I mean, your trusted allies are
    hellknights, inquisitor zealots or reformed fiends, for example
    And even so, anything they could do pales in comparison to what the demons of the Worldwound would do... they are really vicious in the campaign. Like "Mike Meyers met Skynet" pure, unadulterated evil.

    That said, the lich path or swarm-that-walks path does not seem to be something many of your companions or advisors would approve of in the long run :D The beta does not go that far so we do not know


    In other news, it seems spellbook merging would be limited to lich path ( for mages, sorcerers) and Angel path ( for Oracles and Clerics) :|
    That is a huge advantage for casters, it merges your mythic spellbook with your common spell/divine book of spells, improves a lot your caster level, your spell selection, and gives you access to the fabled level 10th of spells.
    Also angel path treats his spells as divine/supernatural, so they have no casting failure with armour, unlike the trickster or lich spells.

    It seems natural full-casters like shamans or druids are always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

    I have mixed feelings about it. It seems a way to limit your options to some classes and some paths if you want to get some huge advantages. I mean, you do not reaaaaally need them, but the unbalance and temptation stands.

  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    Ohhh. Interesting - I guess I had assumed evil mean siding with the demons or something, but that assumption was possibly (probably) mistaken. Good to know.

    I dont want to repeat myself, but I do hope that the developers strike a better balance in terms of good vs evil companion outcomes (Avoiding the "Always do the good aligned thing, even with evil NPCs). It kind of sounds like Owlcat has a more nuanced approach to evil characters, so I'm hopeful this will be improved upon.


    I dont know a lot about the paths. I had sort of assumed each path was more of a branching choice for everyone... is that not the case? I mean, I guess it doesnt make a lot of sense to make your Fighter into a Lich. Are the different paths specific to classes (Or class/perk/attributes?) - it sounds almost like they're like a second prestige class (If you're an arcane spell caster who can cast level x spells, you can be a lich).


    I'm not hugely worried about it, but I do wonder how often I'll feel like none of the paths really fit whatever character I create
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    Guys, I have a technical question. As I understand, during Kickstarter campaign, Owlcat promised to deliver mod support for WoTR after release. Now, from what I read in the newsletter, they are working on Steam interface for it. Does it mean choosing Steam key over GoG will have some benefits? I vastly prefer GoG, but if this means that I would not be able to use some of the mods in the future, that would not be cool.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    I share the same worries as Cahir. The steam workshop has the annoying "feature" of allowing their mods if you have your game in Steam. Many modders still put their creations also in other forums, the nexus, etc but still...
    That said, I have the intention to move to GOG after release ( the beta is available on steam but you can redeem a coupon to get the game in GOG, epic or steam), since they stated they will have the season pass with the DLCs available later.
    I dont know a lot about the paths. I had sort of assumed each path was more of a branching choice for everyone... is that not the case? I mean, I guess it doesnt make a lot of sense to make your Fighter into a Lich. Are the different paths specific to classes (Or class/perk/attributes?) - it sounds almost like they're like a second prestige class (If you're an arcane spell caster who can cast level x spells, you can be a lich).


    I'm not hugely worried about it, but I do wonder how often I'll feel like none of the paths really fit whatever character I create
    Yeah, the Mythic pats are usually an extra (OP) prestige class that is added to your usual character, and it's tied to the story itself. You do not even get experience to level it up, you get new mythic ranks as the campaign progresses.
    In WoTR they take it further and the different paths will have their own questline, npcs , powers, unique dialogues and roleplay choices.
    For example, azatas get a very talkative small dragon companion, a covenant of misfits to join your crusade and you can turn devastated lands into forests; liches could take control of undead or create your own to serve you in battle or in your bastion, tricksters can do... er... everything that could be fun? Let´s just say for trickster reality rules are optional, Mr. Mxyzptlk style


    Unlike in the Tabletop, they decided by popular demand that alignment will not matter for Mythic paths ( In TT your path alignment usually changes to fit your path, so you cannot take levels of monk as a demon or paladin levels as a lich, for example)

    So basically in WoTR you can pick any Mythic path with any class, race, alignment, etc.
    Do you want a lich paladin, a demon monk, an Aion barbarian, a cavalier trickster? you can.

    There are "universal powers" that all mythic paths (and your companions) could pick and some that are limited to a path, so you can mix and match any class with any Path.
    Some paths seem more akin to some classes and will offer the best benefits, like angel-cleric, bloodrager-demon, or wizard- lich, but A fighter lich will find many abilities and mythic spells useful if you want to play one and your character would be competitive ( For example Mythic mage armour could reach +14AC with no dex cap and no armour penalties so it could be useful for a sharpshooter).

    The thing that I mentioned before is that one of the best casting mythic feats ever, the ability to merge spellbooks, would not be available to all full casters, only to wizs, sorcs, clerics, oracles... and only for lich and angel path. So, you can be a druid, but you cannot use the spellbook merging in any Mythic path? Or an evil cleric of Lamashtu, but you can only merge if you go angel?

    I mean, you can play just fine without it but some, like shamans, may appreciate more an upgrade than the already strong classes like sorcerers, clerics or oracles, and you may be tempted to follow a certain path because it will improve a lot your character, not because you want it.
    It´s a matter of balance, and being a single-player game it does not matter much, surely I will end up playing the character I want ( In fact I didn´t try much lich and angel, I went full trickster or Azata. Those two paths are hilarious :D ) but still...


    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    Cahir wrote: »
    Guys, I have a technical question. As I understand, during Kickstarter campaign, Owlcat promised to deliver mod support for WoTR after release. Now, from what I read in the newsletter, they are working on Steam interface for it. Does it mean choosing Steam key over GoG will have some benefits? I vastly prefer GoG, but if this means that I would not be able to use some of the mods in the future, that would not be cool.
    No, they have explicitly said in the KS forum that Steam Workshop is in addition to mods being available in all the other usual places. So them adding in Steam Workshop is not taking anything away from GOG.

    I personally love having Steam Workshop or some mod manager built into the game so that I don't have to go looking elsewhere for any mods (yes, including Nexusmods). So I'm extremely happy with this addition. I consider finding, downloading, and adding in mods to my games to be a painful chore. So the easier and more straightforward it is to add mods to my games (just click a link and it's added, like with Paradox's games) the more likely it is that I will use mods.
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Cahir wrote: »
    Guys, I have a technical question. As I understand, during Kickstarter campaign, Owlcat promised to deliver mod support for WoTR after release. Now, from what I read in the newsletter, they are working on Steam interface for it. Does it mean choosing Steam key over GoG will have some benefits? I vastly prefer GoG, but if this means that I would not be able to use some of the mods in the future, that would not be cool.
    No, they have explicitly said in the KS forum that Steam Workshop is in addition to mods being available in all the other usual places. So them adding in Steam Workshop is not taking anything away from GOG.

    I personally love having Steam Workshop or some mod manager built into the game so that I don't have to go looking elsewhere for any mods (yes, including Nexusmods). So I'm extremely happy with this addition. I consider finding, downloading, and adding in mods to my games to be a painful chore. So the easier and more straightforward it is to add mods to my games (just click a link and it's added, like with Paradox's games) the more likely it is that I will use mods.

    Fair point, it's indeed convenient to have built-in mod manager, the problem is, I think, that only a portion of mods are usually available on Steam Workshop. I don't have much experience with it, but for example for Bethesda games only a fraction of mods available on Nexus are also available on Steam Workshop.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    Cahir wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Cahir wrote: »
    Guys, I have a technical question. As I understand, during Kickstarter campaign, Owlcat promised to deliver mod support for WoTR after release. Now, from what I read in the newsletter, they are working on Steam interface for it. Does it mean choosing Steam key over GoG will have some benefits? I vastly prefer GoG, but if this means that I would not be able to use some of the mods in the future, that would not be cool.
    No, they have explicitly said in the KS forum that Steam Workshop is in addition to mods being available in all the other usual places. So them adding in Steam Workshop is not taking anything away from GOG.

    I personally love having Steam Workshop or some mod manager built into the game so that I don't have to go looking elsewhere for any mods (yes, including Nexusmods). So I'm extremely happy with this addition. I consider finding, downloading, and adding in mods to my games to be a painful chore. So the easier and more straightforward it is to add mods to my games (just click a link and it's added, like with Paradox's games) the more likely it is that I will use mods.

    Fair point, it's indeed convenient to have built-in mod manager, the problem is, I think, that only a portion of mods are usually available on Steam Workshop. I don't have much experience with it, but for example for Bethesda games only a fraction of mods available on Nexus are also available on Steam Workshop.
    Yes I agree, and it's something I myself have lamented often wherever I can provide that feedback. But for me it is still better than not having it at all. After all, if I did not have this particular mentality towards mods, the IE EEs would've never mattered to me.
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Cahir wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Cahir wrote: »
    Guys, I have a technical question. As I understand, during Kickstarter campaign, Owlcat promised to deliver mod support for WoTR after release. Now, from what I read in the newsletter, they are working on Steam interface for it. Does it mean choosing Steam key over GoG will have some benefits? I vastly prefer GoG, but if this means that I would not be able to use some of the mods in the future, that would not be cool.
    No, they have explicitly said in the KS forum that Steam Workshop is in addition to mods being available in all the other usual places. So them adding in Steam Workshop is not taking anything away from GOG.

    I personally love having Steam Workshop or some mod manager built into the game so that I don't have to go looking elsewhere for any mods (yes, including Nexusmods). So I'm extremely happy with this addition. I consider finding, downloading, and adding in mods to my games to be a painful chore. So the easier and more straightforward it is to add mods to my games (just click a link and it's added, like with Paradox's games) the more likely it is that I will use mods.

    Fair point, it's indeed convenient to have built-in mod manager, the problem is, I think, that only a portion of mods are usually available on Steam Workshop. I don't have much experience with it, but for example for Bethesda games only a fraction of mods available on Nexus are also available on Steam Workshop.
    Yes I agree, and it's something I myself have lamented often wherever I can provide that feedback. But for me it is still better than not having it at all. After all, if I did not have this particular mentality towards mods, the IE EEs would've never mattered to me.

    Damn, those demons look tough. This looks way more epic than Kingmaker. I'm actually intrigued now, like for real.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    Another Dev video, this one about the demons and Demonlords of WoTR. If you plan to play the game you better be acquainted with them, they´ll be like your roomies in a few.

    https://youtu.be/J1akEapu2Ws
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    A streaming with some voice actors and "Thainen" Krymov, one of the narrative designers of owlcat´s two pathfinder games.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs7U-OUKjQk

    When I found out Linsay Sheppard is the same voice actress that voices Linzi of PF:KM, Minagho of WoTR, the one in the video cover,
    an evil demoness lord, a succubus and a recurrent antagonist in the campaign
    and Arc´s sister in the cartoon RWBY I was like o.O Waaaaaat? Those have very different vocal registers.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    There´ll be a Reddit AMA 2 days prior to the final release of the game, if you have some last-minute questions.

    reddit_AMA.jpg

    https://www.reddit.com/r/OwlcatGames/

    myself, I have a lot of them about Golden Dragon, Swarm-that-walks and Legend paths; and about some plots that would be too spoilery to write he he.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    A video about the Mythic paths. They are really giving a lot of info this week before release

    https://youtu.be/0Z9JV9sh7vI

    Sadly they didn´t offer info about Golden dragon and Swarm-that-walks path, which were out of the beta.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    As someone who's not been playing the beta, each new video I watch about this game only just boosts my excitement even more through the roof. This game is soooooo awesome. I actually can feel that feeling I had when I played BG1 for the very first time back in 1998. Gives me goosebumps. I've extremely grateful to all those of you who have been playing the beta and providing invaluable feedback to make the game the best it can be. But for me, I'm soooooo looking forward to my very first time playing the game, which I expect will be magical. :smile:
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Does anyone know the rough gameplay ratio between the actual rpg and the large scale army fights? Because I'm really only interested in one of those.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    edited August 2021
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Does anyone know the rough gameplay ratio between the actual rpg and the large scale army fights? Because I'm really only interested in one of those.
    A good question. I asked this exact question during the KS and was told by a dev that the game would be so vast/long that by putting the strategic mini-game on auto and ignoring it I would still get my money's worth in the rest of the game, because the mini-game would be a very small part of the overall game. But we probably will have to wait for the whole game to be able to say if this is true.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    edited August 2021
    The dev diary on mythic paths does look pretty cool, but it really more reinforced my current fear that the system will serve to constrain the player to RP within certain additional boundaries that look to leave a lot of characters or styles in the lurch - and sometimes in different ways.

    For example: Lich. They made a strong point to say that the lich can be played by either a spell caster or a non spell caster. That's good. They do make it sound like it will be hard or perhaps impossible to play a lich and be good. It even sounds like neutral could be a bridge too far - maybe. (There's a lot of fertile ground for good characters working with the wronged undead to avenge them).

    In a different vein, the Demon path sounds like it's all about giving into or resisting the "rage" of the demons. That seems to offer a nice dichotomy for alignment playstyles, but doesnt feel like it would easily fit too many mages (aside from some of the weird rage-based spell casters in PF, which I never did like the concept of in the first place).

    Angels do sounds pretty interesting. I like the support vs avenging concept. I wonder if they'll work in evil deity flavor as well - if not, that would feel like more of the same.


    I havent played the game, and so I dont really know how it will all pan out in the end, but it feels more and more like a swashbuckling chaotic neutral duelist type character only makes sense taking the trickster path or perhaps the Azata path (although that sounds a bit more fae-whimsy-nature class oriented). I worry that once I get to choose my path, I wont be excited for any of them for a lot of character concepts. I guess we'll know more in a few days.



    I also recognize that this system is going to make it hard for all classes/concepts to be equally valid. In an ideal situation, each path would be nuanced enough to contextualize and respond to your character's abilities, class and alignment so that it feels like a natural part of their story. That's just a ton of work, and is perhaps unfeasible - but that doesnt mean I cannot wish it to be more effective or closer to that than it looks like it currently will be.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    Myself, I was convinced by P:K and the "features" trailer for P:WotR, and stopped reading/watching everything about the sequel not to get spoiled. I bought the game at that stage.

    My bet is that the game will limit player's choices with probably a bit more freedom based on the feedback to P:K, but at the end of the day, you will still have to meta if you want perfect builds and perfect story endings. I've got used to that in P:K - I won't play for the perfect outcome anyway.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    If you are a backer you can preload your game and choose steam/GoG/Epic games now, but you cannot play until September the 2nd at 18.00 CET :/

    Bummer
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    I'm out of town so preloading it on my laptop, hopefully cloud saving so I can switch to my main PC when back home (also hope my laptop can run the game @_@, it can run kingmaker well enough)
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2021
    You can still browse the extras even tho you cannot play. they have some interesting info in the dev material.

    At least I played the beta with a 7-year-old laptop with a intel i7 and a Radeon 8500M. I expect the final version to be more optimized than the beta. At least it is the case with most early access games.


    PD: I think my first character would be kitsune. I voted that race only to make Disney´s Robin Hood

    450_1000.jpg
    Post edited by PsicoVic on
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