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[Kickstarter] Pathfinder 2: Wrath of the Righteous

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  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    ^That is a decline IMO.

    Anyway, My unique critiques towards the game
    1. Din't liked much companions
    2. Too epic in the beginning

    The companions are actually the aspect I rather like, and like a lot. Almost any of them has some riddle to them. The epicness, in the beginning, is something that hooked me right away, it's a great change compared to P:K. Being able to respec your character and thus fix your build choices instead of reloading or replaying the whole game is a great idea.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    Nimran wrote: »
    Restartitis is kicking my butt right now. I think the huge number of options isn’t doing me any favors.

    You can freely respec your main character from the ground in the main tavern. So you don't really need a restart to play as a new character. ;)

    But muh immersion! Lol but yeah, it doesn’t quite work when you want to build an entirely different character, i.e. different personality, dialogue choices, etc. the respec is cool for when you make a leveling mistake.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    I think the companions are the best part of the story’s writing, honestly. I’ve never had such an interest in companion characters’ stories before. This includes the BGs and Kingmaker.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited September 2021
    I agree with most of the statements of Gaider (Dorian FTW) besides the one about race and class barely mentioned.
    I had plenty of race/deity interactions until now. Even in mythic dialogues. Maybe I was lucky. I am playing a dhampir and a tiefling and they have a lot of unique dialogues
    The thieflings even agree to let me join their ranks, with an extra funny remark from Woljif
    with several characters (even with the demon and lich path).

    I also found several interactions with other inquisitors that regard my inquisitor status, or recognize me as a witch. And Irabade always has a distinct dialogue about your class when you are getting ready to storm
    the Grey garrison.

    Honestly, since you can multiclass and you do not have limits on the number of classes you can pick ( not a fan, but since its a single-player game it´s good to have that option for people that enjoy making those scale monk-dragon disciple-nature oracle-etc builds) I didn´t think they were going to make dialogues about your class at all.

    In other order of things, you can make a lot of shennanigans with your pets now.
    unknown.png
    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    elminster wrote: »
    You caught me right when I changed my post to say its in a bad location. :)

    It should be near the portraits (near Stealth and AI). That's a much more intuitive location then randomly in the corner.

    About stealth and Ai buttons, in that, you were spot on. The lack of a keyboard shortcut to toggle the IA and stealth, to give an example. Luckily the mod to map keys of KM was easily ported to WoTR, but still...
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    Can I safely install Heroes of Stolen Lands portrait pack mid-game? Is it going to be wiped out after the next patch release?

    I find the base portrait selection somewhat limited, and this pack contains some nice ones.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited September 2021
    Cahir wrote: »
    Can I safely install Heroes of Stolen Lands portrait pack mid-game? Is it going to be wiped out after the next patch release?

    I find the base portrait selection somewhat limited, and this pack contains some nice ones.

    I didn´t even have problems porting my portraits from the beta to the game when it was released, so I vote for a possible no. They use the same folder. No reason to change it, but who knows?

    You can use portraits from KM or make your own, you just have to use the .png format and the right names and sizes; then put them in the portraits folder.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    I've been really enjoying this game. I think the first two chapters were really really good. Good world building. The story pushed you in a logical and strong direction. At that point, I felt like it was close to the level of some all-time great crpgs.

    Chapter 3 has set that back considerably. It's not bad per se, but took the game from potentially great to just pretty good. Maybe they'll find a tighter focus moving forward (I'm hopeful), but right now I'd say this is a nice step forward from PF:KM, but not an exceptional game.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Gaider's comment on just being stuck on a tactical wall is troubling. Anyone else run into a similar issue?
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    edited September 2021
    I've played more over the weekend, and I'm nearly ready to attack the Grey Garrison in chapter 1. I have to admit that the difficulty and the challenge of fights in this game are... higher than what I had in P:K, and I'm loving it. My party is lvl 5, and remembering P:K, I still fought mites, kobolds, maybe a few boggards and wolves at that stage. Here, though, I already fought a nabassu, a succubus, and a few other lvl 8-9 difficult demons, some with attacks going through my normal AC, some with high magic resistance. some with gaze attacks.

    I have to say that I couldn't imagine myself playing this game successfully without all the XP I as the player got in P:K. I've been spending the money on potions and protection scrolls, and even had to buy a revive (6k gold!). Every fight leaves my party almost without spells when it's over, and this is cool. I prefer fighting one extra-difficult demon than packs and packs of kobolds and boggards. I'm playing on a modified hard setting.
    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited September 2021
    I had a beef with the game in the beta, the fact that before not all full casters could merge spells with the mythic caster paths (mainly druids, shamans...) but it seems it was fixed and now shaman could merge spellbook with Angel, for example. I mean, you can play without merging spellbooks just fine, but now you have more options in character creation if you play shamans and other nature casters without the feeling you are losing something.

    Cahir wrote: »

    Basically the only thing, so far, I wish they'd improved, is the lack of lore descriptions of items. I miss it dearly, I was spoiled by BG/IWD. I think only PoE tried to remedy that, but unfortunately, since I wasn't invested in that setting, I was not necessarily interested to read item lore too.

    There are some "Named" weapons, armour and trinkets that show the story of the items, but it seems they are a few.
    Sin-t-tulo.png

    One thing I am enjoying is the dialogue/roleplay options tied to the alignment. That´s something I missed in BG3. Even I am not partial to the alignment system, it´s useful for videogames.
    Not only for tradition. It adds more options, replayability ( a lawful good may not have the same options as a chaotic evil) , and some game/combat mechanics tied to the alignment like spells, abilities, etc.



    Post edited by PsicoVic on
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    What @Cahir and @JuliusBorisov are saying is exactly what I've been saying to critics of P:Km. How can we expect a brand-new studio, with zero experience making a video game, and literally having only a handful of devs (at that time) make a great game let alone a perfect game? It's quite unreasonable. Owlcat needed to do P:Km in order to gain the experience to make truly good games. And if one looks at P:Km that way, then one has to be that much more impressed that Owlcat did as well as they did with their first game. The way to judge Owlcat is to focus on their sincerity, passion, and motivation to do the best job that they can, both before a game's release and especially after release.
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    kanisatha wrote: »
    What @Cahir and @JuliusBorisov are saying is exactly what I've been saying to critics of P:Km. How can we expect a brand-new studio, with zero experience making a video game, and literally having only a handful of devs (at that time) make a great game let alone a perfect game? It's quite unreasonable. Owlcat needed to do P:Km in order to gain the experience to make truly good games. And if one looks at P:Km that way, then one has to be that much more impressed that Owlcat did as well as they did with their first game. The way to judge Owlcat is to focus on their sincerity, passion, and motivation to do the best job that they can, both before a game's release and especially after release.

    I didn't expect Pathfinder Kingmaker to be a perfect game. No game is perfect. Unfortunately, it was lacking in the areas that were important for me. What Owlcat needed is the solid, reasonable critique of game elements that was the weakest parts of the game. They got it, and they took this critique to heart. Please notice that they only expanded the parts of the game where Kingmaker shone, like the overall gameplay mechanics, NPCs, but completely changed the parts that was not working (the plot is engaging from the start, locations are great, making you want to look every nook and cranny. I'm of course not naive to believe Owlcat devs were reading Kingmaker topic here on these very forums, but my main gripes I had with Kingmaker are (so far) non existent in WoTR.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,597
    Yeah, I still think there are perfectly legitimate criticisms of Owlcat for Kingmaker, even given the context of being a new studio. Numerous players and even reviewers reported quest-breaking bugs that weren't solved until months after release.

    And for a game that seemed to include a plethora of options among its subclasses and difficulty settings, I think it was worth some buyers questioning why they ended up investing tens of hours into a game, only to have the main questline stopped by bugs. Forcing you to either restart and hope for the best, or wait months for a patch. That was exactly my experience. And many of these extra options and enormous choices of classes seem kind of superfluous on deeper analysis.

    It is heartening to hear from folks about Wrath. And I'm looking forward to playing it post-DLC. It does appear that they've mostly learned the right lessons.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited September 2021
    Looks like @SorcererV1ct0r finally cursed the Respec option of Wotr =D

    PSA for Fellow WoTR Players: DO NOT use the respec function:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/pnzyzj/avoid_respecs_until_the_next_patch/
    Crusaders! An important announcement: We are now working on an issue that turned out to be really serious and the fix deeply affected the internal structure of the game. Please note that if you saved after using respec in Act II or further, your saved game may remain corrupted, potentially blocking your playthrough. Mythic Demon and Lich are the most affected by this problem. We are very sorry for the inconvenience caused, and strongly recommend to revert back to a save made before respeccing. Please stay away of the respec function up until the next patch. The problem will be gone then.
    A bit of clarification on this:

    The issue is that respec bug was affecting the mechanics so deeply, that we were not able to guarantee that your game will manage to repair itself even after the fix is deployed. I.e. things may be so broken in a given playthrough after respec, that even a fix won't help it. Highest chance to bump into this is with demon and lich mythics, other mythics have a chance to be affected, but it's considerably lower.

    It does not necessarily mean your game won't work or that it will suddenly stop working after the patch - it simply means that if it was already broken, there's a chance it will remain such. Thus we recommend to revert back to an old save if possible.

    Patch itself is about to come really shortly. Issue is fixed there and respeccing after patch is no longer dangerous.

    Apparently, it's the Demon and LIch campaign's that are most affected. Owlcat hasn't been clear on how to determine if your save game has issues. I'm personally losing about 7-8 hours of gameplay if I have to back (having respecced the past week), though I'm playing an Aion so I might just risk it. Make sure you do not respec for now.

    Quoting the GTA SA meme: "Oh S..., here we go again"
    DinoDin wrote: »
    And many of these extra options and enormous choices of classes seem kind of superfluous on deeper analysis.
    I respectfully disagree. All my hours in the BTSL dungeon taught me that it´s exactly the opposite. The myriad of different build options and classes are, well, different on deeper analysis.
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    edited September 2021
    @PsicoVic, so if I'm still in Act 1 and I already used respec option for my character, I'm still safe? The issue is only present when one respecs in Act 2 or later? Did I get it right?

    Also I do not plan Mythic or demon path in this run. My take is on Golden dragon path.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited September 2021
    Cahir wrote: »
    @PsicoVic, so if I'm still in Act 1 and I already used respec option for my character, I'm still safe? The issue is only present when one respecs in Act 2 or later? Did I get it right?

    Also I do not plan Mythic or demon path in this run. My take is on Golden dragon path.

    They said it´s only an issue to respec when you have mythic levels and with some Mythic paths ( Golden Dragon, Swarm-that-walks, devil...), but I do not know if it´s a surefire assumption.
    You may be ok, but I´ll avoid respeccing until the next patch comes (In Discord they said this week)

    ed: The first patch is ready https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/78236/kickstarter-pathfinder-2-wrath-of-the-righteous/p21

    but also with a warning of @OwlcatStarrok
    A fresh update after the patch: while some of the respec issues have been addressed, late-game mythic paths (Legend, Swarm, Gold Dragon, secret one) seem to still be affected. Try to avoid the feature for now, the problem is being worked on with maximum priority now.


    Since it´s tied to the Mythic paths, respec your companions it´s ok, it only affects the main character.
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Cahir wrote: »
    @PsicoVic, so if I'm still in Act 1 and I already used respec option for my character, I'm still safe? The issue is only present when one respecs in Act 2 or later? Did I get it right?

    Also I do not plan Mythic or demon path in this run. My take is on Golden dragon path.

    They said it´s only an issue to respec when you have mythic levels and with some Mythic paths ( Golden Dragon, Swarm-that-walks, devil...), but I do not know if it´s a surefire assumption.
    You may be ok, but I´ll avoid respeccing until the next patch comes (In Discord they said this week)

    ed: The first patch is ready https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/78236/kickstarter-pathfinder-2-wrath-of-the-righteous/p21

    but also with a warning of @OwlcatStarrok
    A fresh update after the patch: while some of the respec issues have been addressed, late-game mythic paths (Legend, Swarm, Gold Dragon, secret one) seem to still be affected. Try to avoid the feature for now, the problem is being worked on with maximum priority now.


    Since it´s tied to the Mythic paths, respec your companions it´s ok, it only affects the main character.

    Ok I've definitely not chosen Mythic path yet (I'm on level 4), so I think I should be safe.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    DinoDin wrote: »
    And many of these extra options and enormous choices of classes seem kind of superfluous on deeper analysis.

    While not universally true, I do think there is some merit to this. It's like Vanilla icecream. Sure, you can put walnuts in it and say you have one type of ice cream, or put almonds in it and say it's a different kind - but at the end of the day, it's still Vanilla Icecream with a small flavor change.

    I actually feel the mythic paths do more to vary the game in a deeper and more meaningful way that the different archetypes typically do.


    While I've run into my fair share of bugs, they've all been pretty trivial if I'm being totally honest. The sort of thing that might annoy some players, but really is meaningless to me. Sad to hear about the potential game breaking bug they found, hopefully they can fix that soon (As a rule, I tend not to respec. I did it once very early on for a companion that I thought I wanted to go one way only to realize I didnt want a change, and speced him back).
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    They finally got the hotfix to fix the respec bug. It does not repair the saved games previously bugged tho.

    https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1184370/view/2900870858649775891
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,819
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    They finally got the hotfix to fix the respec bug. It does not repair the saved games previously bugged tho.

    https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1184370/view/2900870858649775891

    Ok from what I read if I retrain ed in Act 1, before even choosing a Mythic path and I plan to choose Gold Dragon path, I should be safe. Phew... I was worried for a moment.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    I ran into some weeeeeeird bugs last night. One side quest in chapter 3 started having dialogue pop up in what very much looked like Latin to me (probably wasnt) - and now the Wintersun area just has a super out of color highlighted terrain texture bug I cannot get to go away. Luckily, I dont think I need to go there anymore...

    Perfectly polished? Not remotely, but so far the bugs and glitches have only taken a reload or two to circumvent.
  • alice_ashpoolalice_ashpool Member Posts: 261
    Good game good game- one of the greats almost. Exactly what I wanted from a "Hard as shit" Owlcat RtwP game. just a tremendously good effort on the part of the studio. Finished the whole thing and encountered only a few bugs - mostly because I didn't respec and seemed to outpace the new bugs the patches introduced. However, act 5 is a mess, the RPG "soul" of the game just disappears. I expect a few more negative reviews to come in once more players get that far.

    What a shame. Very high hopes for the game in 6 months ;)

    Anyway, here's my powergamer soul defeating the really buggy final boss on Unfair to prove i am a no life nerd:
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    I reached the crusade system in Wrath. It's oversimplified. :) I expected a much more tactical approach there, - but so far it looks to me like a dumbed-down HoMM 3 mechanic. Unlike some players, I was looking forward to HoMM-like combat in Wrath (I like HoMM games), but it's very simple and doesn't require you to think much, almost a clicker-type of the mechanic. But at least, here, unlike the advisors and their Dice-based system in Kingmaker, everything depends on me: do I want to attack this army or wait and regroup, do I want to go here or there, etc.

    The story, characters, quests, items, abilities, general gameplay - everything is still very interesting and refreshing in many aspects if compared to Kingmaker. Mythic feats and abilities, even low-level ones, felt a bit OP when I first read their description, but that is because I was comparing them to what the combat in Kingmaker offered in terms of the challenge (eg. +3 lvl 1, 2 and 3 spells just for one feat, come on!). In Wrath, I'm looking forward to using them.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited September 2021
    Crusaders! An important announcement:
    There is a critical issue with two companions: Sosiel and Daeran.
    If you have a romance with one of them and call them to Midnight Fane at the beginning of the 5th chapter - it will irreversibly break your walkthrough.
    We are already working on fixing this, and expect the issue to be resolved in 1.0.6 update, approximately next week.
    But it's important for you to NOT call them on the live version, for now, update will not repair a broken save file.

    Another one, This one for your favourite male romances. I am starting to think hard mode is not enough for Owlcat devs, they added these things to spice up your runs in WoTR and made them more challenging. =D
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    Daeran is great. Sosiel... less so. I'm guessing the majority of those romances will be for Daeran : P
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 773
    edited September 2021
    Based upon what I've read there seem to be three good npcs and one npc that can be convinced to become good, whilst seven npcs are evil or can become evil with some convincing. Seems a bit odd for a crusade against evil and like the devs remembered and took personally the lack of evil npcs in bg2 vs the number of good ones. Not sure I want to play when there aren't even enough good npcs to form a team.
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