Obsidian and Owlcat are pretty much the only studios making good old-school cRPGs as far as I am concerned. So this story troubles me greatly as someone who struggles with playing games in first-person. I've already had to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and having to miss out on a second major Obsidian game in a row is rather painful to contemplate.
So a question for any of you who love first-person cRPGs: would you be so kind as to make a case for me of the strengths of first-person games and how first-person games can be good role-playing experiences? Please try and convince me that playing in first-person can work for me.
Just FYI, my aversion to first-person games is not one of those physiological issues. It's just that as someone who's never played console games and who only plays on a PC using mouse and keyboard, first-person tends to be very jarring and aggravating. I never seem to be able to move properly and go where I want to go, and especially get around objects. I never seem to have good situational awareness of what's going on around me and tend to miss a lot, not just lurking foes but also things in general that you can interact with when they are on the periphery of forward vision. And of course, combat is what's most aggravating as I find it very hard to properly target and hit my opponents, with this becoming even more difficult if an ally is also nearby and I need to avoid hitting my ally.
Please share your thoughts.
I feel like Obsidian working on games with more mass appeal than old-school RPGs was a given after being scooped up by Microsoft. I don't really mind since they've proven that their strengths translate well across different genres.
And while I'm not going to try and convince you to keep trying first-person (if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. Sometimes it be like that), I will say that audio is a much more integral part of the gameplay when compared to isometric games. I don't know your gaming setup, but if you're having trouble reading what's happening on the screen I'd urge you to use headphones and spend some time experimenting with the audio settings. And always check every nook and cranny for hidden goodies, but that's just good advice in general
Thanks. My gaming setup is pretty good. I have a really nice gaming desktop, GTX980, and dual-monitors with the main one quite large and 4K. But, I am hearing impaired. I'm not deaf, so I can hear sounds just fine, but the clarity of speech varies from voice to voice. And my hearing aid won't allow earphones because of feedback. So yes, I have to read everything on the screen to know what's going on and cannot rely on audio guiding me on anything.
Sorry, "reading" was a poor choice of words on my end and believe "registering" might be more fitting. But I see the problem and have little else to offer in terms of solutions. The best thing I can think of is to simply play more first-person games and try to get used to spatial awareness in a 3d space, but I also fully understand not wanting to commit once more to something that hasn't worked for you so far. I hope you can find some way of enjoying first-person but if you don't, just remember that there will still be old-school cRPGs in the future. The last couple of years have proven that the genre won't wither and die.
Obsidian and Owlcat are pretty much the only studios making good old-school cRPGs as far as I am concerned. So this story troubles me greatly as someone who struggles with playing games in first-person. I've already had to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and having to miss out on a second major Obsidian game in a row is rather painful to contemplate.
So a question for any of you who love first-person cRPGs: would you be so kind as to make a case for me of the strengths of first-person games and how first-person games can be good role-playing experiences? Please try and convince me that playing in first-person can work for me.
Just FYI, my aversion to first-person games is not one of those physiological issues. It's just that as someone who's never played console games and who only plays on a PC using mouse and keyboard, first-person tends to be very jarring and aggravating. I never seem to be able to move properly and go where I want to go, and especially get around objects. I never seem to have good situational awareness of what's going on around me and tend to miss a lot, not just lurking foes but also things in general that you can interact with when they are on the periphery of forward vision. And of course, combat is what's most aggravating as I find it very hard to properly target and hit my opponents, with this becoming even more difficult if an ally is also nearby and I need to avoid hitting my ally.
Please share your thoughts.
I feel like Obsidian working on games with more mass appeal than old-school RPGs was a given after being scooped up by Microsoft. I don't really mind since they've proven that their strengths translate well across different genres.
And while I'm not going to try and convince you to keep trying first-person (if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. Sometimes it be like that), I will say that audio is a much more integral part of the gameplay when compared to isometric games. I don't know your gaming setup, but if you're having trouble reading what's happening on the screen I'd urge you to use headphones and spend some time experimenting with the audio settings. And always check every nook and cranny for hidden goodies, but that's just good advice in general
Thanks. My gaming setup is pretty good. I have a really nice gaming desktop, GTX980, and dual-monitors with the main one quite large and 4K. But, I am hearing impaired. I'm not deaf, so I can hear sounds just fine, but the clarity of speech varies from voice to voice. And my hearing aid won't allow earphones because of feedback. So yes, I have to read everything on the screen to know what's going on and cannot rely on audio guiding me on anything.
Sorry, "reading" was a poor choice of words on my end and believe "registering" might be more fitting. But I see the problem and have little else to offer in terms of solutions. The best thing I can think of is to simply play more first-person games and try to get used to spatial awareness in a 3d space, but I also fully understand not wanting to commit once more to something that hasn't worked for you so far. I hope you can find some way of enjoying first-person but if you don't, just remember that there will still be old-school cRPGs in the future. The last couple of years have proven that the genre won't wither and die.
Thanks. Would you (or anyone) have a first-person cRPG to recommend as a good "starter" choice? It would probably be best if it were relatively recent so that its graphics are reasonably good quality, and also be close to an old-school cRPG rather than an action RPG or more of an FPS game.
Obsidian and Owlcat are pretty much the only studios making good old-school cRPGs as far as I am concerned. So this story troubles me greatly as someone who struggles with playing games in first-person. I've already had to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and having to miss out on a second major Obsidian game in a row is rather painful to contemplate.
So a question for any of you who love first-person cRPGs: would you be so kind as to make a case for me of the strengths of first-person games and how first-person games can be good role-playing experiences? Please try and convince me that playing in first-person can work for me.
Just FYI, my aversion to first-person games is not one of those physiological issues. It's just that as someone who's never played console games and who only plays on a PC using mouse and keyboard, first-person tends to be very jarring and aggravating. I never seem to be able to move properly and go where I want to go, and especially get around objects. I never seem to have good situational awareness of what's going on around me and tend to miss a lot, not just lurking foes but also things in general that you can interact with when they are on the periphery of forward vision. And of course, combat is what's most aggravating as I find it very hard to properly target and hit my opponents, with this becoming even more difficult if an ally is also nearby and I need to avoid hitting my ally.
Please share your thoughts.
I feel like Obsidian working on games with more mass appeal than old-school RPGs was a given after being scooped up by Microsoft. I don't really mind since they've proven that their strengths translate well across different genres.
And while I'm not going to try and convince you to keep trying first-person (if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. Sometimes it be like that), I will say that audio is a much more integral part of the gameplay when compared to isometric games. I don't know your gaming setup, but if you're having trouble reading what's happening on the screen I'd urge you to use headphones and spend some time experimenting with the audio settings. And always check every nook and cranny for hidden goodies, but that's just good advice in general
Thanks. My gaming setup is pretty good. I have a really nice gaming desktop, GTX980, and dual-monitors with the main one quite large and 4K. But, I am hearing impaired. I'm not deaf, so I can hear sounds just fine, but the clarity of speech varies from voice to voice. And my hearing aid won't allow earphones because of feedback. So yes, I have to read everything on the screen to know what's going on and cannot rely on audio guiding me on anything.
Sorry, "reading" was a poor choice of words on my end and believe "registering" might be more fitting. But I see the problem and have little else to offer in terms of solutions. The best thing I can think of is to simply play more first-person games and try to get used to spatial awareness in a 3d space, but I also fully understand not wanting to commit once more to something that hasn't worked for you so far. I hope you can find some way of enjoying first-person but if you don't, just remember that there will still be old-school cRPGs in the future. The last couple of years have proven that the genre won't wither and die.
Thanks. Would you (or anyone) have a first-person cRPG to recommend as a good "starter" choice? It would probably be best if it were relatively recent so that its graphics are reasonably good quality, and also be close to an old-school cRPG rather than an action RPG or more of an FPS game.
I didn't play that many first person crpgs, but I would really recommend Fallout New Vegas. Playing on Survival mod was immensely enjoying experience for me. There are tons of mods on Nexus for this game at this point, but I remember playing it without them many years ago was super fun. And I've played it right after Fallout 3, so I can definitely say Obsidian nailed it. But to be honest, I prefer to play it in third person rather than first person.
What is the most exciting gaming experience ever is Read Dead Redemption 2. It's not exactly true RPG, if you ask me, but boy, what a game this is. The story, the gameplay, graphics, environment, characters. All of those are simply the best I have ever experience. This is actually the only game do far that made me cry. Three times actually. I cannot reccomend this game enough.
Obsidian and Owlcat are pretty much the only studios making good old-school cRPGs as far as I am concerned. So this story troubles me greatly as someone who struggles with playing games in first-person. I've already had to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and having to miss out on a second major Obsidian game in a row is rather painful to contemplate.
So a question for any of you who love first-person cRPGs: would you be so kind as to make a case for me of the strengths of first-person games and how first-person games can be good role-playing experiences? Please try and convince me that playing in first-person can work for me.
Just FYI, my aversion to first-person games is not one of those physiological issues. It's just that as someone who's never played console games and who only plays on a PC using mouse and keyboard, first-person tends to be very jarring and aggravating. I never seem to be able to move properly and go where I want to go, and especially get around objects. I never seem to have good situational awareness of what's going on around me and tend to miss a lot, not just lurking foes but also things in general that you can interact with when they are on the periphery of forward vision. And of course, combat is what's most aggravating as I find it very hard to properly target and hit my opponents, with this becoming even more difficult if an ally is also nearby and I need to avoid hitting my ally.
Please share your thoughts.
I feel like Obsidian working on games with more mass appeal than old-school RPGs was a given after being scooped up by Microsoft. I don't really mind since they've proven that their strengths translate well across different genres.
And while I'm not going to try and convince you to keep trying first-person (if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. Sometimes it be like that), I will say that audio is a much more integral part of the gameplay when compared to isometric games. I don't know your gaming setup, but if you're having trouble reading what's happening on the screen I'd urge you to use headphones and spend some time experimenting with the audio settings. And always check every nook and cranny for hidden goodies, but that's just good advice in general
Thanks. My gaming setup is pretty good. I have a really nice gaming desktop, GTX980, and dual-monitors with the main one quite large and 4K. But, I am hearing impaired. I'm not deaf, so I can hear sounds just fine, but the clarity of speech varies from voice to voice. And my hearing aid won't allow earphones because of feedback. So yes, I have to read everything on the screen to know what's going on and cannot rely on audio guiding me on anything.
Sorry, "reading" was a poor choice of words on my end and believe "registering" might be more fitting. But I see the problem and have little else to offer in terms of solutions. The best thing I can think of is to simply play more first-person games and try to get used to spatial awareness in a 3d space, but I also fully understand not wanting to commit once more to something that hasn't worked for you so far. I hope you can find some way of enjoying first-person but if you don't, just remember that there will still be old-school cRPGs in the future. The last couple of years have proven that the genre won't wither and die.
Thanks. Would you (or anyone) have a first-person cRPG to recommend as a good "starter" choice? It would probably be best if it were relatively recent so that its graphics are reasonably good quality, and also be close to an old-school cRPG rather than an action RPG or more of an FPS game.
Recent IDK but the graphics of Might & Magic VIII aren't bad if you can stand other earlier 00s games, Wizardry Games, Eye of the Beholder and ravenloft series can help you.
If you wanna a more action RPG, i suggest fallout new vegas OR VtMB focusing most on disciplines and firearms. New vegas is amazing on firearms, has everything that you need. Classy .45-70 lever action rifle, a anti materiel rifle and explosive ammo, fully automatic 12 gauge shotguns with all types of ammo, including dragon breath, effectively transforming the 12 gauge shotgun into a flame thrower. IRL Dragon Breath rounds have problems "cycling", but it is not implemented in the game.
Deus Ex and System Shock are also good recommendations.
As for the strengths of first person, is IMO just immersion. You are not seeing a character model, you are seeing what your character is seeing. Cast a cone of cold and see the spell effect from the eyes of your character is so cool. Aiming with iron sights or scope, dealing with the sway, pulling the trigger and seeing the weapon cycles is much more immersive than clicking and auto attacking.
I never liked much mmo mechanics like cooldowns and stat inflation BUT could play DDO as a warlock until epic levels and part of reason was the first person view. Isometric has his advantages. IS far more tactical and better when dealing with large groups.
That isn’t a FPS? I don’t think that exists because First person mechanics usually deal with the player shifting the screen or their view until what they want to target is Center of their screen.
Elder Scrolls games are probably the closest.
Thief (I am not sure if it is a console game) or even the Deus Ex franchise might also be viable but those two still lean more towards FSP.
Obsidian and Owlcat are pretty much the only studios making good old-school cRPGs as far as I am concerned. So this story troubles me greatly as someone who struggles with playing games in first-person. I've already had to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and having to miss out on a second major Obsidian game in a row is rather painful to contemplate.
So a question for any of you who love first-person cRPGs: would you be so kind as to make a case for me of the strengths of first-person games and how first-person games can be good role-playing experiences? Please try and convince me that playing in first-person can work for me.
Just FYI, my aversion to first-person games is not one of those physiological issues. It's just that as someone who's never played console games and who only plays on a PC using mouse and keyboard, first-person tends to be very jarring and aggravating. I never seem to be able to move properly and go where I want to go, and especially get around objects. I never seem to have good situational awareness of what's going on around me and tend to miss a lot, not just lurking foes but also things in general that you can interact with when they are on the periphery of forward vision. And of course, combat is what's most aggravating as I find it very hard to properly target and hit my opponents, with this becoming even more difficult if an ally is also nearby and I need to avoid hitting my ally.
Please share your thoughts.
I feel like Obsidian working on games with more mass appeal than old-school RPGs was a given after being scooped up by Microsoft. I don't really mind since they've proven that their strengths translate well across different genres.
And while I'm not going to try and convince you to keep trying first-person (if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. Sometimes it be like that), I will say that audio is a much more integral part of the gameplay when compared to isometric games. I don't know your gaming setup, but if you're having trouble reading what's happening on the screen I'd urge you to use headphones and spend some time experimenting with the audio settings. And always check every nook and cranny for hidden goodies, but that's just good advice in general
Thanks. My gaming setup is pretty good. I have a really nice gaming desktop, GTX980, and dual-monitors with the main one quite large and 4K. But, I am hearing impaired. I'm not deaf, so I can hear sounds just fine, but the clarity of speech varies from voice to voice. And my hearing aid won't allow earphones because of feedback. So yes, I have to read everything on the screen to know what's going on and cannot rely on audio guiding me on anything.
Sorry, "reading" was a poor choice of words on my end and believe "registering" might be more fitting. But I see the problem and have little else to offer in terms of solutions. The best thing I can think of is to simply play more first-person games and try to get used to spatial awareness in a 3d space, but I also fully understand not wanting to commit once more to something that hasn't worked for you so far. I hope you can find some way of enjoying first-person but if you don't, just remember that there will still be old-school cRPGs in the future. The last couple of years have proven that the genre won't wither and die.
Thanks. Would you (or anyone) have a first-person cRPG to recommend as a good "starter" choice? It would probably be best if it were relatively recent so that its graphics are reasonably good quality, and also be close to an old-school cRPG rather than an action RPG or more of an FPS game.
I'm not a super buff when it comes to the genre, but I think it's going to be hard to find something that isn't action or a shooter. Legend of Grimrock is the first that comes to mind, and really cool if you ever liked the old M&M-games, but that's turn-based I believe.
I also feel Fallout New Vegas is more of an RPG with shooter elements than the other way around, but you might have tried this already.
Otherwise? Honestly, probably Skyrim. It's barrier of entry is pretty low, the background lore is cool and having a civil war as a backdrop allows for pretty good role play, and it's all real-time. The modding scene is also strong. It's definitely action and can get chaotic but if you can stick with it, I feel like it's the best modern RPG to get you used to spatial awareness in 3d space.
But like I mentioned, the genre isn't my strong suit so other people probably have better suggestions.
Very helpful. I have played Skyrim, and that was a game that I had a lot of trouble with the combat. But I stuck with it through more than half of the game before I quit, though mainly because I got bored with the game and not its perspective. Everyone tells me F:NV, so that's certainly going on my list. RDR2 is a very interesting recommendation too. I've been watching a lot of youtube videos of Cyberpunk 2077 and have that on my wishlist. VtMB is also interesting because I've been following the discussion around the new VtM game currently being made. Thanks all! Plenty here for me to work with.
I'd highly recommend New Vegas. You don't really have to know anything about the other Fallout games (true of any Fallout game actually). As others have said it's more of an RPG with the option of FPS elements. And you can definitely do a character build that can significantly cut down the frequency of combat you'll encounter, or make it less chaotic with the usage of the VATS system. Try and look up online a "VATS-centric build".
NV is very similar to Deadfire in terms of the roleplaying, lots of factions, sub-factions, very open-world, multiple quest solutions. And much of the strong RP elements centers around them.
Edit to add: Can get it for just under $8 on GOG btw, with all the DLC.
Insulting other forum users is against site rules. Citing "political correctness" is not a justification for doing so.
I called out the behavior(not any person or particular group) of calling anyone who mentions TB in any way favorably, as a bully. It begins to ring hollow, and becomes tiresome. I did, admittedly, use inflammatory language as a tool for expressing my level of frustration. If anyone feels I was personally attacking them, uhm... no.
Obsidian and Owlcat are pretty much the only studios making good old-school cRPGs as far as I am concerned. So this story troubles me greatly as someone who struggles with playing games in first-person. I've already had to miss out on The Outer Worlds, and having to miss out on a second major Obsidian game in a row is rather painful to contemplate.
So a question for any of you who love first-person cRPGs: would you be so kind as to make a case for me of the strengths of first-person games and how first-person games can be good role-playing experiences? Please try and convince me that playing in first-person can work for me.
Just FYI, my aversion to first-person games is not one of those physiological issues. It's just that as someone who's never played console games and who only plays on a PC using mouse and keyboard, first-person tends to be very jarring and aggravating. I never seem to be able to move properly and go where I want to go, and especially get around objects. I never seem to have good situational awareness of what's going on around me and tend to miss a lot, not just lurking foes but also things in general that you can interact with when they are on the periphery of forward vision. And of course, combat is what's most aggravating as I find it very hard to properly target and hit my opponents, with this becoming even more difficult if an ally is also nearby and I need to avoid hitting my ally.
Please share your thoughts.
I feel like Obsidian working on games with more mass appeal than old-school RPGs was a given after being scooped up by Microsoft. I don't really mind since they've proven that their strengths translate well across different genres.
And while I'm not going to try and convince you to keep trying first-person (if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't. Sometimes it be like that), I will say that audio is a much more integral part of the gameplay when compared to isometric games. I don't know your gaming setup, but if you're having trouble reading what's happening on the screen I'd urge you to use headphones and spend some time experimenting with the audio settings. And always check every nook and cranny for hidden goodies, but that's just good advice in general
Thanks. My gaming setup is pretty good. I have a really nice gaming desktop, GTX980, and dual-monitors with the main one quite large and 4K. But, I am hearing impaired. I'm not deaf, so I can hear sounds just fine, but the clarity of speech varies from voice to voice. And my hearing aid won't allow earphones because of feedback. So yes, I have to read everything on the screen to know what's going on and cannot rely on audio guiding me on anything.
Sorry, "reading" was a poor choice of words on my end and believe "registering" might be more fitting. But I see the problem and have little else to offer in terms of solutions. The best thing I can think of is to simply play more first-person games and try to get used to spatial awareness in a 3d space, but I also fully understand not wanting to commit once more to something that hasn't worked for you so far. I hope you can find some way of enjoying first-person but if you don't, just remember that there will still be old-school cRPGs in the future. The last couple of years have proven that the genre won't wither and die.
Thanks. Would you (or anyone) have a first-person cRPG to recommend as a good "starter" choice? It would probably be best if it were relatively recent so that its graphics are reasonably good quality, and also be close to an old-school cRPG rather than an action RPG or more of an FPS game.
Without a doubt Morrowind with a couple very simple graphical mods (MGXE) and the Code Patch applied. It's as meaty as any Infinity Engine game (I'd argue more so), a totally unique world and atmosphere, and nearly endless content. While the combat is archaic, it certainly isn't "hard", and if you are a fan of games circa 1998-2000, then you may appreciate it still operates on dice rolls. Along with Baldur's Gate 2 and Diablo 2, I consider it the apex of CRPG gaming.
But the other choices mentioned here are all great. Bloodlines, System Shock 2, Deus Ex are all stone-cold classics. And I'll throw in another one, which is Arx Fatalis (another game you'll want a mod called Arc Libertais to run on modern systems). And though it's turn-based, Wizardry 8 is entirely first person when out of combat.
Isn't there some sort of project ongoing to port Morrowind into the Skyrim engine?
None of those projects are complete. They've been going on for years, and will go on for years more. The most complete Morrowind Overhaul is called Morrowind Rebirth, and while it's still ongoing, it's also "complete" as such. I wouldn't recommend it for a first play though. All you'll need to get started is this:
1.) MGE XE: This allows you to play the game in high resolution and increase the draw distance (which is so small in the original it feels like you're playing in a constant fog). Pretty much essential, as it also allows you to run the game on more modern Direct X software and take advantage of your graphics card. Easy to set up, be sure to go through and draw distant lands step by step.
2.) Morrowind Code Patch: This is definitely needed, and is even easier to set up. Include all the bug fixes. Include the gameplay tweaks to your specifications (the toggle sneak rather than hold is a must imo).
3.) Patch for Purists: There is another large patch, but it's harder to find and also makes alot of changes that aren't strictly "bugs". Patch for Purists only fixes things that are obvious mistakes. Same mod author also has a DLC delay that is a must to not break immersion.
Isn't there some sort of project ongoing to port Morrowind into the Skyrim engine?
None of those projects are complete. They've been going on for years, and will go on for years more. The most complete Morrowind Overhaul is called Morrowind Rebirth, and while it's still ongoing, it's also "complete" as such. I wouldn't recommend it for a first play though. All you'll need to get started is this:
1.) MGE XE: This allows you to play the game in high resolution and increase the draw distance (which is so small in the original it feels like you're playing in a constant fog. Pretty much essential, as it also allows you to run the game on more modern Direct X software and take advantage of your graphics card. Easy to set up, be sure to go through and draw distant lands step by step.
2.) Morrowind Code Patch: This is definitely needed, and is even easier to set up. Include all the bug fixes. Include the gameplay tweaks to your specifications (the toggle sneak rather than hold is a must imo).
3.) Patch for Purists: There is another large patch, but it's harder to find and also makes alot of changes that aren't strictly "bugs". Patch for Purists only fixes things that are obvious mistakes. Same mod author also has a DLC delay that is a must to not break immersion.
What am I trying to say here? That RPGs are a rare beast. They are hard to create.
It's definitely a tough genre to pull off. You need an orchestra of virtuosos in different aspects of game design in order to make it work. For example, in most cases, you need excellent storytelling. This is something that other genres don't have to deal with. Consider a classic game like Tetris. It's great, it's fun and it's even addictive. However, you don't need any storytelling virtuosos in order to make a Tetris clone. RPG designers have to deal with a lot of stuff: mechanics for hundreds of different spells and abilities, an inventory system with hundreds if not thousands of items, a competent AI that can accurately govern the different actions of hundreds of unique monster types, etc. And at this stage we're not even talking about storytelling yet, nor of character design for dozens of different NPCs, meaningful and memorable quests (as opposed to "go fetch this item" or "go kill these monsters"), good artwork (both for characters as well as portraits and environments), good music and sound effects, etc... etc... etc...
What am I trying to say here? That RPGs are a rare beast. They are hard to create.
It's definitely a tough genre to pull off. You need an orchestra of virtuosos in different aspects of game design in order to make it work. For example, in most cases, you need excellent storytelling. This is something that other genres don't have to deal with. Consider a classic game like Tetris. It's great, it's fun and it's even addictive. However, you don't need any storytelling virtuosos in order to make a Tetris clone. RPG designers have to deal with a lot of stuff: mechanics for hundreds of different spells and abilities, an inventory system with hundreds if not thousands of items, a competent AI that can accurately govern the different actions of hundreds of unique monster types, etc. And at this stage we're not even talking about storytelling yet, nor of character design for dozens of different NPCs, meaningful and memorable quests (as opposed to "go fetch this item" or "go kill these monsters"), good artwork (both for characters as well as portraits and environments), good music and sound effects, etc... etc... etc...
I think the difficulty with making cRPGs is that unlike other genres of video games where even a so-so game may be acceptable to most fans of that genre, the fans of cRPGs will only accept a game that is really very good (from their individual perspective). And this is understandable given that it is things like story, storytelling, characters, character development, world-building, branching dialogue, options, choices, and consequences that are the essence of cRPGs.
My highly anticipated games list right now is:
P:WotR
Dragon Age 4
Avowed
Next Witcher game
Starfield
Black Geyser
Dark Envoy
Realms Beyond
Solasta
BG3 (with certain fixes)
I also have a separate list of empire/base builder games because I really love that genre as well:
Humankind
Kingdoms Reborn
Per Aspera
My highly anticipated games list right now is:
P:WotR
Dragon Age 4
Avowed
Next Witcher game
Starfield
Black Geyser
Dark Envoy
Realms Beyond
Solasta
BG3 (with certain fixes)
I also have a separate list of empire/base builder games because I really love that genre as well:
Humankind
Kingdoms Reborn
Per Aspera
Interesting, I would bave thought that you don't like sci-fi RPGs, but I see Starfield on the list. Seeing you have also listed new Witcher game I wonder if you did not list Cyberpunk 2077 by mistake or it's not on your radar?
My highly anticipated games list right now is:
P:WotR
Dragon Age 4
Avowed
Next Witcher game
Starfield
Black Geyser
Dark Envoy
Realms Beyond
Solasta
BG3 (with certain fixes)
I also have a separate list of empire/base builder games because I really love that genre as well:
Humankind
Kingdoms Reborn
Per Aspera
Interesting, I would bave thought that you don't like sci-fi RPGs, but I see Starfield on the list. Seeing you have also listed new Witcher game I wonder if you did not list Cyberpunk 2077 by mistake or it's not on your radar?
VERY slowly expanding my RPG interests beyond fantasy.
I've been following Starfield pretty closely and am liking what I'm hearing so far. If I end up playing it, it will be my very first sci-fi RPG.
Same thing with CP2077. The game looks incredible (yes it's definitely on my radar), but I'm very leery of diving into that particular type of game, especially with it also being FPS. I wish they'd followed their original thinking to include a third-person option.
My highly anticipated games list right now is:
P:WotR
Dragon Age 4
Avowed
Next Witcher game
Starfield
Black Geyser
Dark Envoy
Realms Beyond
Solasta
BG3 (with certain fixes)
I also have a separate list of empire/base builder games because I really love that genre as well:
Humankind
Kingdoms Reborn
Per Aspera
Interesting, I would bave thought that you don't like sci-fi RPGs, but I see Starfield on the list. Seeing you have also listed new Witcher game I wonder if you did not list Cyberpunk 2077 by mistake or it's not on your radar?
VERY slowly expanding my RPG interests beyond fantasy.
I've been following Starfield pretty closely and am liking what I'm hearing so far. If I end up playing it, it will be my very first sci-fi RPG.
Same thing with CP2077. The game looks incredible (yes it's definitely on my radar), but I'm very leery of diving into that particular type of game, especially with it also being FPS. I wish they'd followed their original thinking to include a third-person option.
I was debating whether to buy CP2077 or not (and if buy it for PS4 Pro or PC) mostly because I was not hooked by The Witcher 3 at all. I tried to played it couple of times, both on console and PC, once even with quality of life mods installed, but no luck. Can't really tell why I didn't like it. I just think this game is too big, which wouldn't bother me at all like 15 years ago, but these days I just got bored at some time each time I played it. Now, I heard CP2077 will be a bit smaller and condensed that W3 which is the good think.
Also, I really, really like sci-fi rpgs, to the point being in the camp of people finding Fallout 3 OK ? So I was torn apart about CP2077. Luckily my wife came up with a brilliant idea of buying it to me for my birthday, so there you go... I officially jumped into the hype train ?
I've got my eyes turned on Starfield too. This one might be a great game If, Bethesda learned the last Fallout fiasco lesson. From your list I'm also curious about Black Geyser and obviously BG3 (here I'm waiting Larian to Improved optimization before I'll really dig into EA).
I wish success for Cyberpunk 2077 and that it makes high technology RPG's more popular. When I mean high technology, I mean with and without magic. Just imagien if the third OwlCat game is a Starfinder TT adaptation.
My highly anticipated games list right now is:
P:WotR
Dragon Age 4
Avowed
Next Witcher game
Starfield
Black Geyser
Dark Envoy
Realms Beyond
Solasta
BG3 (with certain fixes)
I also have a separate list of empire/base builder games because I really love that genre as well:
Humankind
Kingdoms Reborn
Per Aspera
Interesting, I would bave thought that you don't like sci-fi RPGs, but I see Starfield on the list. Seeing you have also listed new Witcher game I wonder if you did not list Cyberpunk 2077 by mistake or it's not on your radar?
VERY slowly expanding my RPG interests beyond fantasy.
I've been following Starfield pretty closely and am liking what I'm hearing so far. If I end up playing it, it will be my very first sci-fi RPG.
Same thing with CP2077. The game looks incredible (yes it's definitely on my radar), but I'm very leery of diving into that particular type of game, especially with it also being FPS. I wish they'd followed their original thinking to include a third-person option.
I was debating whether to buy CP2077 or not (and if buy it for PS4 Pro or PC) mostly because I was not hooked by The Witcher 3 at all. I tried to played it couple of times, both on console and PC, once even with quality of life mods installed, but no luck. Can't really tell why I didn't like it. I just think this game is too big, which wouldn't bother me at all like 15 years ago, but these days I just got bored at some time each time I played it. Now, I heard CP2077 will be a bit smaller and condensed that W3 which is the good think.
Also, I really, really like sci-fi rpgs, to the point being in the camp of people finding Fallout 3 OK ? So I was torn apart about CP2077. Luckily my wife came up with a brilliant idea of buying it to me for my birthday, so there you go... I officially jumped into the hype train ?
I've got my eyes turned on Starfield too. This one might be a great game If, Bethesda learned the last Fallout fiasco lesson. From your list I'm also curious about Black Geyser and obviously BG3 (here I'm waiting Larian to Improved optimization before I'll really dig into EA).
Black Geyser is yet another recent example of the small indie studio making its first game where the game is a classic, old-school RPG as a "successor" to the IE games. But unlike some of the others, it is entirely original, so no D&D SRD, original world and original mechanics. Also, RTwP combat. And yet for all this, for me it is the indie game that comes closest to giving me the BG1 "feel" in terms of how it looks and how it plays. Here's its KS link where you can look up info on it:
To try and keep this conversation going (because I'm a bit bored with talking about BG3 right now), what are people's personal deal-breaker elements of single-player cRPGs? I'm not talking here about such things as good story, characters, choices and consequences, etc., because I see those as fundamental to the very idea of a cRPG. I'm talking of things that can be one way or the other but where the game can still be a good cRPG.
For me, there are three main things I dislike in my cRPGs (in no particular rank-order):
If it is solo-play and is not party-based
If it is first-person perspective
If it has turn-based combat
If a game has just one of these three, I am still open to it and potentially able to enjoy playing it. If it has two out of the three, then it is highly likely to be a 'NO' on the game. I don't think there are any RPGs out there that have all three because it doesn't seem logical.
I'm not talking here about such things as good story, characters, choices and consequences, etc., because I see those as fundamental to the very idea of a cRPG.
The thing is this is pretty much all I need from a good crpg. There is no difference for me if it's party based or solo, rtwp or TB, with wall of texts to read or fully voiced, as long as there is compelling story, interesting characters, world full of rich lore, memorable locations. And as long as game mechanics doesn't stand in the way of me enjoying the story.
I'm not talking here about such things as good story, characters, choices and consequences, etc., because I see those as fundamental to the very idea of a cRPG.
The thing is this is pretty much all I need from a good crpg. There is no difference for me if it's party based or solo, rtwp or TB, with wall of texts to read or fully voiced, as long as there is compelling story, interesting characters, world full of rich lore, memorable locations. And as long as game mechanics doesn't stand in the way of me enjoying the story.
This is my stance too. For me the most important aspect of an RPG is that it has to have a rich, interesting world, a deep, compelling story and memorable characters to draw me in. I'm actually fairly flexible on most aspects of RPGs such as single or party based (although I prefer party), whether you create your own party or recruit companions (prefer the latter), whether it's isometric or first person or third person, fantasy or sci-fi etc.
I have been and still am a big fan of RTwP. Mostly because of my love for NWN, KOTOR and BG (the later being my all time favourite). So RTwP is just how I do it. At least that’s what I thought.
This year my daughter has forced me to play a number of Pokémon games. Didn’t know much about the franchise before, but I do now I guess. The games are heavy on TB fighting. The first 4 games we played didn’t change my view in TB fighting: bland and boring. You just had to pick the right Pokémon with the right attack - fight won. Tactics and variation was no where to be found. Buffs where never used and old moves where replaced by more powerful attacks. Once you had the most powerful moves and reached the highest level the fighting became lost all interest.
But the fifth and sixth game changed my view. The first 4 instalments focused on catching pokemons, whilst the later focused on fighting.
In the latter instalment moves could be trained, so they became more powerful. Buffs, defensive and attacking moves could be linked, and it opened the in game fights to a whole new level. AOE moves, buffs, debuffs, CC moves, ranged attacks and close combat suddenly had to be considered - and not just picking the same moves over and over. Who new I would come to love Pin missile...
I am no hoping that Bg3 becomes another instalment in the Pokémon series. But I think TB fighting can be fun, if the devs make it top priority and comes up with something inventive and smart. I guess that’s why I love BG so much. Fighting may be a chaotic experience, but the many layers and depth of combat makes it something unique - not just because it’s RTwP. But because the deva made it so.
I think its worth noting that TB in jrpgs and TB in crpgs is very different. Pokemon, for example, is just command selection. With crpg turn based, you have things to consider like movement, positioning, sometimes high ground, etc. And each character in combat moves one at a time.
I personally love jrpg turn based, its naturally a combat system that is quick to resolve, unless its intentionally slowed down.
My dislike of TB is specifically with the crpg variety, which takes FORVEVER to get though. Unless you can reach the enemies in your first turn, and still have points or actions to attack, and are strong enough to one-shot enemies, AND have enough accuracy that positioning or terrain doesn't matter, you're looking at 5 minutes for trash fights at a bare minimum, with 8-10 being common. Anything moderately challenging and you're looking at 15-25 minutes. Its such a slow slog.
Comments
Sorry, "reading" was a poor choice of words on my end and believe "registering" might be more fitting. But I see the problem and have little else to offer in terms of solutions. The best thing I can think of is to simply play more first-person games and try to get used to spatial awareness in a 3d space, but I also fully understand not wanting to commit once more to something that hasn't worked for you so far. I hope you can find some way of enjoying first-person but if you don't, just remember that there will still be old-school cRPGs in the future. The last couple of years have proven that the genre won't wither and die.
Thanks. Would you (or anyone) have a first-person cRPG to recommend as a good "starter" choice? It would probably be best if it were relatively recent so that its graphics are reasonably good quality, and also be close to an old-school cRPG rather than an action RPG or more of an FPS game.
I didn't play that many first person crpgs, but I would really recommend Fallout New Vegas. Playing on Survival mod was immensely enjoying experience for me. There are tons of mods on Nexus for this game at this point, but I remember playing it without them many years ago was super fun. And I've played it right after Fallout 3, so I can definitely say Obsidian nailed it. But to be honest, I prefer to play it in third person rather than first person.
What is the most exciting gaming experience ever is Read Dead Redemption 2. It's not exactly true RPG, if you ask me, but boy, what a game this is. The story, the gameplay, graphics, environment, characters. All of those are simply the best I have ever experience. This is actually the only game do far that made me cry. Three times actually. I cannot reccomend this game enough.
Recent IDK but the graphics of Might & Magic VIII aren't bad if you can stand other earlier 00s games, Wizardry Games, Eye of the Beholder and ravenloft series can help you.
https://www.gog.com/game/dungeons_dragons_ravenloft_series
If you wanna a more action RPG, i suggest fallout new vegas OR VtMB focusing most on disciplines and firearms. New vegas is amazing on firearms, has everything that you need. Classy .45-70 lever action rifle, a anti materiel rifle and explosive ammo, fully automatic 12 gauge shotguns with all types of ammo, including dragon breath, effectively transforming the 12 gauge shotgun into a flame thrower. IRL Dragon Breath rounds have problems "cycling", but it is not implemented in the game.
Deus Ex and System Shock are also good recommendations.
As for the strengths of first person, is IMO just immersion. You are not seeing a character model, you are seeing what your character is seeing. Cast a cone of cold and see the spell effect from the eyes of your character is so cool. Aiming with iron sights or scope, dealing with the sway, pulling the trigger and seeing the weapon cycles is much more immersive than clicking and auto attacking.
I never liked much mmo mechanics like cooldowns and stat inflation BUT could play DDO as a warlock until epic levels and part of reason was the first person view. Isometric has his advantages. IS far more tactical and better when dealing with large groups.
Elder Scrolls games are probably the closest.
Thief (I am not sure if it is a console game) or even the Deus Ex franchise might also be viable but those two still lean more towards FSP.
I'm not a super buff when it comes to the genre, but I think it's going to be hard to find something that isn't action or a shooter. Legend of Grimrock is the first that comes to mind, and really cool if you ever liked the old M&M-games, but that's turn-based I believe.
I also feel Fallout New Vegas is more of an RPG with shooter elements than the other way around, but you might have tried this already.
Otherwise? Honestly, probably Skyrim. It's barrier of entry is pretty low, the background lore is cool and having a civil war as a backdrop allows for pretty good role play, and it's all real-time. The modding scene is also strong. It's definitely action and can get chaotic but if you can stick with it, I feel like it's the best modern RPG to get you used to spatial awareness in 3d space.
But like I mentioned, the genre isn't my strong suit so other people probably have better suggestions.
NV is very similar to Deadfire in terms of the roleplaying, lots of factions, sub-factions, very open-world, multiple quest solutions. And much of the strong RP elements centers around them.
Edit to add: Can get it for just under $8 on GOG btw, with all the DLC.
I called out the behavior(not any person or particular group) of calling anyone who mentions TB in any way favorably, as a bully. It begins to ring hollow, and becomes tiresome. I did, admittedly, use inflammatory language as a tool for expressing my level of frustration. If anyone feels I was personally attacking them, uhm... no.
Without a doubt Morrowind with a couple very simple graphical mods (MGXE) and the Code Patch applied. It's as meaty as any Infinity Engine game (I'd argue more so), a totally unique world and atmosphere, and nearly endless content. While the combat is archaic, it certainly isn't "hard", and if you are a fan of games circa 1998-2000, then you may appreciate it still operates on dice rolls. Along with Baldur's Gate 2 and Diablo 2, I consider it the apex of CRPG gaming.
But the other choices mentioned here are all great. Bloodlines, System Shock 2, Deus Ex are all stone-cold classics. And I'll throw in another one, which is Arx Fatalis (another game you'll want a mod called Arc Libertais to run on modern systems). And though it's turn-based, Wizardry 8 is entirely first person when out of combat.
None of those projects are complete. They've been going on for years, and will go on for years more. The most complete Morrowind Overhaul is called Morrowind Rebirth, and while it's still ongoing, it's also "complete" as such. I wouldn't recommend it for a first play though. All you'll need to get started is this:
1.) MGE XE: This allows you to play the game in high resolution and increase the draw distance (which is so small in the original it feels like you're playing in a constant fog). Pretty much essential, as it also allows you to run the game on more modern Direct X software and take advantage of your graphics card. Easy to set up, be sure to go through and draw distant lands step by step.
2.) Morrowind Code Patch: This is definitely needed, and is even easier to set up. Include all the bug fixes. Include the gameplay tweaks to your specifications (the toggle sneak rather than hold is a must imo).
3.) Patch for Purists: There is another large patch, but it's harder to find and also makes alot of changes that aren't strictly "bugs". Patch for Purists only fixes things that are obvious mistakes. Same mod author also has a DLC delay that is a must to not break immersion.
Thank you!!
You don't get to decide how a person feels. That's all I'm posting on this topic.
So among the top anticipated games, we see... only 1 RPG? (Horizon)
Where is BG3? Where is P:WotR? Where is Starfield? Not there, apparently. Obviously, they didn't include CP2077 as that will be out soon.
And here is a list of nominees for the best RPG of 2020.
Great that 2020 brought us these games, but... isn't this list a bit short?
For the record, this was the list for 2019:
What am I trying to say here? That RPGs are a rare beast. They are hard to create. There are not many RPGs.
This is why we have to cherish what we get. Every single one of them is special.
My personal take: BG3 Early Access is the best RPG of 2020. And it's my most anticipated game, easily. Followed by:
- P:WotR
- Starfield
- Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2
- new Dragon Age
- new Mass Effect
It's definitely a tough genre to pull off. You need an orchestra of virtuosos in different aspects of game design in order to make it work. For example, in most cases, you need excellent storytelling. This is something that other genres don't have to deal with. Consider a classic game like Tetris. It's great, it's fun and it's even addictive. However, you don't need any storytelling virtuosos in order to make a Tetris clone. RPG designers have to deal with a lot of stuff: mechanics for hundreds of different spells and abilities, an inventory system with hundreds if not thousands of items, a competent AI that can accurately govern the different actions of hundreds of unique monster types, etc. And at this stage we're not even talking about storytelling yet, nor of character design for dozens of different NPCs, meaningful and memorable quests (as opposed to "go fetch this item" or "go kill these monsters"), good artwork (both for characters as well as portraits and environments), good music and sound effects, etc... etc... etc...
P:WotR
Dragon Age 4
Avowed
Next Witcher game
Starfield
Black Geyser
Dark Envoy
Realms Beyond
Solasta
BG3 (with certain fixes)
I also have a separate list of empire/base builder games because I really love that genre as well:
Humankind
Kingdoms Reborn
Per Aspera
Interesting, I would bave thought that you don't like sci-fi RPGs, but I see Starfield on the list. Seeing you have also listed new Witcher game I wonder if you did not list Cyberpunk 2077 by mistake or it's not on your radar?
I've been following Starfield pretty closely and am liking what I'm hearing so far. If I end up playing it, it will be my very first sci-fi RPG.
Same thing with CP2077. The game looks incredible (yes it's definitely on my radar), but I'm very leery of diving into that particular type of game, especially with it also being FPS. I wish they'd followed their original thinking to include a third-person option.
I was debating whether to buy CP2077 or not (and if buy it for PS4 Pro or PC) mostly because I was not hooked by The Witcher 3 at all. I tried to played it couple of times, both on console and PC, once even with quality of life mods installed, but no luck. Can't really tell why I didn't like it. I just think this game is too big, which wouldn't bother me at all like 15 years ago, but these days I just got bored at some time each time I played it. Now, I heard CP2077 will be a bit smaller and condensed that W3 which is the good think.
Also, I really, really like sci-fi rpgs, to the point being in the camp of people finding Fallout 3 OK ? So I was torn apart about CP2077. Luckily my wife came up with a brilliant idea of buying it to me for my birthday, so there you go... I officially jumped into the hype train ?
I've got my eyes turned on Starfield too. This one might be a great game If, Bethesda learned the last Fallout fiasco lesson. From your list I'm also curious about Black Geyser and obviously BG3 (here I'm waiting Larian to Improved optimization before I'll really dig into EA).
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/grapeocean/black-geyser-couriers-of-darkness?ref=d9g6qg
For me, there are three main things I dislike in my cRPGs (in no particular rank-order):
If it is solo-play and is not party-based
If it is first-person perspective
If it has turn-based combat
If a game has just one of these three, I am still open to it and potentially able to enjoy playing it. If it has two out of the three, then it is highly likely to be a 'NO' on the game. I don't think there are any RPGs out there that have all three because it doesn't seem logical.
What say you?
Another point I'd add for myself is having every character player made, rather than actual characters.
The thing is this is pretty much all I need from a good crpg. There is no difference for me if it's party based or solo, rtwp or TB, with wall of texts to read or fully voiced, as long as there is compelling story, interesting characters, world full of rich lore, memorable locations. And as long as game mechanics doesn't stand in the way of me enjoying the story.
This is my stance too. For me the most important aspect of an RPG is that it has to have a rich, interesting world, a deep, compelling story and memorable characters to draw me in. I'm actually fairly flexible on most aspects of RPGs such as single or party based (although I prefer party), whether you create your own party or recruit companions (prefer the latter), whether it's isometric or first person or third person, fantasy or sci-fi etc.
I have been and still am a big fan of RTwP. Mostly because of my love for NWN, KOTOR and BG (the later being my all time favourite). So RTwP is just how I do it. At least that’s what I thought.
This year my daughter has forced me to play a number of Pokémon games. Didn’t know much about the franchise before, but I do now I guess. The games are heavy on TB fighting. The first 4 games we played didn’t change my view in TB fighting: bland and boring. You just had to pick the right Pokémon with the right attack - fight won. Tactics and variation was no where to be found. Buffs where never used and old moves where replaced by more powerful attacks. Once you had the most powerful moves and reached the highest level the fighting became lost all interest.
But the fifth and sixth game changed my view. The first 4 instalments focused on catching pokemons, whilst the later focused on fighting.
In the latter instalment moves could be trained, so they became more powerful. Buffs, defensive and attacking moves could be linked, and it opened the in game fights to a whole new level. AOE moves, buffs, debuffs, CC moves, ranged attacks and close combat suddenly had to be considered - and not just picking the same moves over and over. Who new I would come to love Pin missile...
I am no hoping that Bg3 becomes another instalment in the Pokémon series. But I think TB fighting can be fun, if the devs make it top priority and comes up with something inventive and smart. I guess that’s why I love BG so much. Fighting may be a chaotic experience, but the many layers and depth of combat makes it something unique - not just because it’s RTwP. But because the deva made it so.
I personally love jrpg turn based, its naturally a combat system that is quick to resolve, unless its intentionally slowed down.
My dislike of TB is specifically with the crpg variety, which takes FORVEVER to get though. Unless you can reach the enemies in your first turn, and still have points or actions to attack, and are strong enough to one-shot enemies, AND have enough accuracy that positioning or terrain doesn't matter, you're looking at 5 minutes for trash fights at a bare minimum, with 8-10 being common. Anything moderately challenging and you're looking at 15-25 minutes. Its such a slow slog.