Skip to content

Icewind Dale 2: Enhanced Edition is almost here!

1101113151633

Comments

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    edited August 2021
    Hmm...I wonder whether you need to think about balance with a spell like that. I see you're using Magic Missile and that's a scaling level 1 spell with 5 missiles. But some level 1 spells don't scale, so mileage will vary a lot.

    I mean casting 20 x Magic Missile seems rather ludicrous...
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    edited August 2021
    @Jaheiras_Witness
    Hmm...I wonder whether you need to think about balance with a spell like that. I see you're using Magic Missile and that's a scaling level 1 spell with 5 missiles. But some level 1 spells don't scale, so mileage will vary a lot.

    I mean casting 20 x Magic Missile seems rather ludicrous...

    It's not as bad as you think. In order to actually cast that many Magic Missiles with this thing, you actually have to stand around attacking for many rounds (and wizards don't have many attacks per round). It's not the same thing as casting 20 Magic Missile spells instantly.

    The number of charges also scales with level. If a level 11 wizard learns this spell (it's a 6th-level spell) and casts it, the staff only has 11 charges, and they'd only have one attack per round without Haste. The sorcerer in the video clip was level 20, which is overleveled for that point in the game.

    It's also worth putting it into the context of what other spells can do normally. If you cast a 10d6 damage Fireball on a group of 4 enemies, that's a total of 40d6 damage, save for half, dealt to the group in just a single round. Compared to that, spending several rounds attacking a single enemy to deal a similar amount of damage (with a higher-level spell than Fireball) is hardly overpowered.

    IWD2EE also improves other 1st-level spells, so Magic Missile isn't necessarily the only viable thing you can put in the staff.
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    Of course you know the spell better than I do, I'm going by one screenshot. But it does seem tailormade for utter abuse. I mean a high level caster can get to, what, 3-4 APR pretty easily. So that's, what, 15-20 missiles per round, all which autohit, all which are a separate hit to shred through images, and which do magical damage rather than physical...
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    Of course you know the spell better than I do, I'm going by one screenshot. But it does seem tailormade for utter abuse. I mean a high level caster can get to, what, 3-4 APR pretty easily. So that's, what, 15-20 missiles per round, all which autohit, all which are a separate hit to shred through images, and which do magical damage rather than physical...

    Single-classed wizards and sorcerers in IWD2EE never get the base attack bonus needed for more than two attacks per round (and they need to be at least level 13 to even have two). With Haste they can get another.

    If the spell really does turn out to be too powerful, I could always reduce the charges or something. We'll see.
  • AkachiAkachi Member Posts: 38
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    If the spell really does turn out to be too powerful, I could always reduce the charges or something. We'll see.

    Not everything needs to be Josh Sawyered, you know :)

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    Here's a demonstration of the Manyshot feat, which lets a character shoot an additional arrow on their first attack each round with a bow. High-level rangers (and no one else) can take the Manyshot feat twice to get two additional arrows rather than one on their first attack.

    walzforhxz6m.gif

    @Akachi
    Josh Sawyered? What do you mean?
  • AkachiAkachi Member Posts: 38
    edited August 2021
    OlvynChuru wrote: »

    @Akachi
    Josh Sawyered? What do you mean?

    Josh Sawyer, Obsidian, is famous for removing all fun from g...I mean balancing them so that there's no OP abilities. Or completely broken ones. Part of the reason why Pillars is so bland (IMO). Yes, it makes every single build viable, but it's just not my cup of tea.
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    Akachi wrote: »
    OlvynChuru wrote: »

    @Akachi
    Josh Sawyered? What do you mean?

    Josh Sawyer, Obsidian, is famous for removing all fun from g...I mean balancing them so that there's no OP abilities. Or completely broken ones. Part of the reason why Pillars is so bland.

    Don't worry, IWD2EE really is not focused on nerfing things. It's much more common for IWD2EE to power up classes, items, spells and other game features than to weaken them. Overall, all classes (including spellcasters) should be more powerful than in the original game; the Creature Revisions component of the game makes enemies stronger to compensate for this.
  • AkachiAkachi Member Posts: 38
    I know, I'm in the Beta :)
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    It could be fun to make a staff of grease, colour spray or burning hands. Does the staff automatically create the correct attack distance requirements?
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    Just one other way of looking at it: Spellstaff is...level 6 spell? And leaving aside the other aspects, what that screenshot effectively shows is swapping one level 6 spell for 20 level 1 spells. That seems a bit much?
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    Is there some ETA target or is development knee deep in adding all sorts of spells still?
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    lroumen wrote: »
    It could be fun to make a staff of grease, colour spray or burning hands. Does the staff automatically create the correct attack distance requirements?

    Yes it does.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    Akachi wrote: »
    OlvynChuru wrote: »

    @Akachi
    Josh Sawyered? What do you mean?

    Josh Sawyer, Obsidian, is famous for removing all fun from g...I mean balancing them so that there's no OP abilities. Or completely broken ones. Part of the reason why Pillars is so bland (IMO). Yes, it makes every single build viable, but it's just not my cup of tea.
    A huge exaggeration, but whatever.
  • KenjiKenji Member Posts: 251
    edited August 2021
    I can't believe I missed this! This is amazing!

    If y'all are still taking any volunteers, I'm up for playtesting!
  • yaseenyaseen Member Posts: 3
    Hi, i would be playtesting too :smile: ! Thank you very much for this and Good Luck!!! :wink:
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    OlvynChuru wrote: »
    If you would like to participate in the beta:

    Make a GitHub account, and send me or @semiticgoddess a PM with the name of your GitHub account. We'll invite you to the beta; you'll need to check your email to accept the invitation. Then, you should be able to access the GitHub repository for IWD2EE.

  • TheTjumsTheTjums Member Posts: 8
    SirBatince wrote: »
    Is there some ETA target or is development knee deep in adding all sorts of spells still?

    I would love to know where you guys are at. Not fishing for any release date, just an update on how things are going with the project.
    Stay safe everybody.
  • Flame_ExcessFlame_Excess Member Posts: 29
    I just jumped on this opportunity by getting myself a copy of IWD2, only to realise we still need to ask for access.

    Please release it already. It's been over a year.
    Whatever you have, just patch it afterwards.
  • activeConsoleactiveConsole Member Posts: 1
    >Other encounters have been rebuilt for ease of use. The final level of Dragon's Eye, Lord Pyros' Domain, is now a single boss fight rather than a series of dialog chores.
    Many areas have received the same treatment, simplifying lengthy fetch quests and in some cases offering shortcuts for major plotlines. The Ice Temple and Dragon's Eye in particular are dramatically streamlined.

    Can anyone clarify what this means? The final level of Dragon's Eye had a fascinating time travel subplot that was, frankly, one of the most memorable aspects of IWD2 to me. Hearing it described as a "dialog chore" makes me worried about whether this Edition is preserving and updating the game, or editorializing it. Likewise, there was a lot going on in The Ice Temple and Dragons Eye, and while there was a lot of running back and forth, none of the quests felt inherently like fetch quests to me. Are these quests being cut, or simply rescripted to be more optional? I really would like a version of IWD2 that I can run easily on a modern computer, but I definitely don't want to waste time into playing a modded version of a game only to find later I've been playing the abbreviated version.
  • KreatoRKreatoR Member Posts: 36
    >Other encounters have been rebuilt for ease of use. The final level of Dragon's Eye, Lord Pyros' Domain, is now a single boss fight rather than a series of dialog chores.
    Many areas have received the same treatment, simplifying lengthy fetch quests and in some cases offering shortcuts for major plotlines. The Ice Temple and Dragon's Eye in particular are dramatically streamlined.

    Can anyone clarify what this means? The final level of Dragon's Eye had a fascinating time travel subplot that was, frankly, one of the most memorable aspects of IWD2 to me. Hearing it described as a "dialog chore" makes me worried about whether this Edition is preserving and updating the game, or editorializing it. Likewise, there was a lot going on in The Ice Temple and Dragons Eye, and while there was a lot of running back and forth, none of the quests felt inherently like fetch quests to me. Are these quests being cut, or simply rescripted to be more optional? I really would like a version of IWD2 that I can run easily on a modern computer, but I definitely don't want to waste time into playing a modded version of a game only to find later I've been playing the abbreviated version.

    I believe you can choose what you want to skip or just leave it unchanged.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    >Other encounters have been rebuilt for ease of use. The final level of Dragon's Eye, Lord Pyros' Domain, is now a single boss fight rather than a series of dialog chores.
    Many areas have received the same treatment, simplifying lengthy fetch quests and in some cases offering shortcuts for major plotlines. The Ice Temple and Dragon's Eye in particular are dramatically streamlined.

    Can anyone clarify what this means? The final level of Dragon's Eye had a fascinating time travel subplot that was, frankly, one of the most memorable aspects of IWD2 to me. Hearing it described as a "dialog chore" makes me worried about whether this Edition is preserving and updating the game, or editorializing it. Likewise, there was a lot going on in The Ice Temple and Dragons Eye, and while there was a lot of running back and forth, none of the quests felt inherently like fetch quests to me. Are these quests being cut, or simply rescripted to be more optional? I really would like a version of IWD2 that I can run easily on a modern computer, but I definitely don't want to waste time into playing a modded version of a game only to find later I've been playing the abbreviated version.
    Yeah I second this question. Good catch, @activeConsole.
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    I just jumped on this opportunity by getting myself a copy of IWD2, only to realise we still need to ask for access.

    Please release it already. It's been over a year.
    Whatever you have, just patch it afterwards.

    At the risk of sounding rude I'm going to have to agree with this person
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 773
    edited August 2021
    Can anyone provide alignment and any other details of the npcs that can join? Do they stay with the party until the end?

    Appreciate all the work that is going into this, many thanks
  • Flame_ExcessFlame_Excess Member Posts: 29
    So for balance - take as much time as you need guys, keep the enhancements going, I don't mind if it's another year, I'm sure it will be great when it's ready.

    Quite! There is only a cretin who would read the title "IWD2: enhanced edition is here", go get a copy of the game ASAP, come back after installing it, but alas nothing!

    Can you imagine that cretin's look on its cretin face after that? Haha! Go wait another year!



  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 773
    edited August 2021
    Deleted
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 773
    They're doing it for free dude, I will be appreciative for whatever we get. Have you asked to join the beta?
  • Acrux2Acrux2 Member Posts: 64
    So for balance - take as much time as you need guys, keep the enhancements going, I don't mind if it's another year, I'm sure it will be great when it's ready.

    Quite! There is only a cretin who would read the title "IWD2: enhanced edition is here", go get a copy of the game ASAP, come back after installing it, but alas nothing!

    Can you imagine that cretin's look on its cretin face after that? Haha! Go wait another year!

    You read only the thread title, went a bought a copy of the game (have you played it before?), and then read the posts to find out what the mod is about - or learn that it's not even (publicly) available yet? That's...unusual behavior.
This discussion has been closed.