@semiticgod, @Tresset, thank you for being excellent moderators and for running these forums very well. However, for what it's worth, I also want to say I'm ok with @killerrabbit's post. I do agree the use of the word "trolling" was a poor choice on his part, but given the overall context of his post I did not take offense.
@killerrabbit, no I was neither trolling nor joking, while also not trying to be unreasonable or a jerk. I was merely being analytical, and based on my analysis of everything I recall being discussed on these very forums about SoD licensing and from what WotC has itself said in the past about editions and licensing, I do consider it a truth that WotC will not allow an older rules edition to be used for a new standalone game. So, yes, I can consider that to be a fact, even while you can disagree. It's all good.
***NOTICE*** While we appreciate the support, this thread is here to discuss BG3. Any questions or concerns regarding moderation should be directed to a moderator via a PM.
Two last questions: How do you send pms in vanilla, and is there a way to adress the entire mod staff instead of making it personal?
@scriver Just go to the person's profile that you want to send a message to and click on 'Message'. You can add other recipients to the PM by clicking on the 'Recipients' line and adding their names to the conversation.
Baldur’s Gate 3 ala Fallout 3. Yay or nay discuss!
Personally, just like Fallout 3 I’d be initially disappointed but appreciate the experience for what it is. Exploring the realms in an immersive first person RPG ala recent Fallouts and Skyrim and throw in pen and paper mechanics could be really interesting.
Ultimately though, just like Fallout 3 I think a party based, isometric, beautiful looking, tastefully written, deep mechanics and lots of exloring and sleuthing fun wih an ominous over arching story is what I really want from a Baldur’s Gate 3. I still think the best route is a child of a child of Bhaal. Maybe insinuate you are the child of the ascended character but you discover you are actually Sarevok and Tamoko love child
I actually wouldn't mind a 1st/3rd person game in the BG series. For me personally, the whole isometric thing has been worn out.. PoE 2, D:OS2, Pathfinder.. they're all modern, good games, but they bore the ever living crap out of me.. I don't know why exactly, but i feel that isometric is just not for me anymore.
It's not engaging enough, to just watch some loon who represents "me" in the game hit things whilst waiting for the result.
I suppose gameplay ala Diablo/Torchlight would feel a little more engaging and fun.
BG3 like in the lost art of BG2 and Icewind Dale is a way to go and probably cheaper to do.
Oh yea if I’m honest a perfect Baldur’s Gate 3 would be actually in the Infinity Engine with maybe a few tweaks (ala BG1 - BG2) but then Beamdog have already done most of the tweaks that can be then I guess personally I wod prefer 2E mechanics but that ain’t gonna happen. 3E onwards is a bit confusing for me there is a mess of feats that go over my head, very static character point system and I have the inclination to multiclass becase I’m too nervous if I break a character as levels are a precious thing early on.
2E with opening up the class system (Druid Dwarfs and Conjuring Half Orcs?) and adding in extra races and classes. Top that with what we’ve come to expect from BG with a nice expansive new location, intricate quests/story and colorful characters and I would be sold. If that all happens but it’s 5E instead it’s not a deal breaker for me.
I don't understand why many people are not happy about 2E's race/class and multiclass restrictions. I actually like that there are those restrictions, so not every race can pick any class. It gives me one more thing to consider while creating a character. And it makes sense that some races would be more inclined to pick some classes and it would be unheard of for some races to have someone in a certain class.
I actually think they should not have allowed multiclasses at all in 2E. Multiclasses are ridiculously OP. Dual class is an okay option though, which has more reasonable restrictions.
In my opinion, 3Es leveling up mechanism with allowing new classes each level is ridiculous. It killed the whole essence of being a pure class, making it inferior. And they provided those prestige classes...I hate 3E so much.
2E is awesome. I wish we could continue having more games on 2E. But I guess I'm in the minority, who thinks 2E is the best.
And another thing, I don't want to spark up another argument but I just checked Realms Beyond kickstarter today and it says they will be using 3.5E. And this is a game that will probably arrive in 2020. So, it's not like the rule of God that noone can use anything before 5E anymore, is it? Maybe we should try not to have too strong opinions on what can or cannot happen on things beyond our control.
Having said that, I also agree that BG3 will probably be in 5E. But I don't care about the edition, as long as we get BG3 eventually, I'll be happy.
@Ludwig_II - Realms Beyond is not an official D&D game. It uses the 3.5E rule set under the terms of the Open Gaming License (OGL), the same license Pathfinder uses for its fork of the 3.5E rules.
Realms Beyond will not be able to use any D&D logos or branding, or specific IP like settings, e.g. the Forgotten Realms.
3e does not stop you from being a pure class, in fact for many classes there is a good incentive to be one, what it does bring to the table is a much more sophisticated toolset for making a unique character. In fact 2e and many (most?) other systems are pretty stupid in that if you are once a fighter, you are a fighter for life, and that's not how things work realistically. Why can't someone who started out as a thief growing up in the slums part with their dark past and become a paladin? What's wrong with a wizard that wants to become a barbarian (HoMM3 anyone?)?
@Ludwig_II - Realms Beyond is not an official D&D game. It uses the 3.5E rule set under the terms of the Open Gaming License (OGL), the same license Pathfinder uses for its fork of the 3.5E rules.
Realms Beyond will not be able to use any D&D logos or branding, or specific IP like settings, e.g. the Forgotten Realms.
Yup that’s true the site has original maps and such. Doing such a thing feels like a huge endeavour like Obsidians background lore for Pillars which can’t be considered skimpy. I think one if the major benefits of picking a DnD property is that huge repertoire of lore you can tap into. At the same time though you are beholden to it like a double edge sword. I love DnD properties but never played pen and paper so when I stumble across a wiki I can get lost reading about the history of some small aspect of the realms.
As for Beyond’s mechanics, it looks like they are trying to emulate the PnP turn based combat which was me intrigued, even if I’m against turn based for Baldur’s Gate 3.
As for 3E single class, I know you can do it but at the back of my mind I feel like I’m hampering my character and not doing so is ‘playing the game wrong’. The system seems designed for mixing and matching and the community clearly loves to do so but I just don’t feel the need to or how substantial the benefits will be 8 levels later without doing a bunch of research.
)In my opinion, 3Es leveling up mechanism with allowing new classes each level is ridiculous. It killed the whole essence of being a pure class, making it inferior.
Not at all. 3rd edition pure class is where you find the powerhouses. Multiclasses are gimmicky builds at best, and will completely wreck your character if you don't know what you're doing.
Multi-classing is indeed much stronger in 2E than 3E. Since XP is split evenly and each class has a different XP table, multi-classes are generally only 1 or 2 levels behind a single-class in 2E. Thus, you can have five characters with 100,000 XP and the multi-classes will have far more levels overall than the single-classes:
Notice that adding a bunch of fighter levels to a mage only gives them a slight drop in spellcasting power in exchange for much stronger attack stats and so forth.
In 3E, however, your total class levels are a single lump you have to distribute evenly. A party with 100,000 XP apiece in 3E is balanced much differently:
When the single-classed mage is casting Finger of Death, the Fighter/Mage has only just learned Stoneskin, and the Fighter/Mage/Thief has only just learned Fireball.
You can argue that multi-classes are stronger than single-classes in both editions, or weaker than single-classes in both editions, but 2E is much more generous with levels for multi-classes than 3E.
Granted, 3E has its own multi-classing issues in that most of the benefits of certain classes can be gained at low levels. A mage can get a whole bunch of feats just by taking a single level in fighter, and a rogue gets evasion at level 2. Thus, a Fighter/Mage/Thief could be good at all roles by taking a 1/12/2 split, only being a couple spell levels behind a level 15 mage while still having far more non-magical strengths.
2e has the BEST multiclass system. I HATE HATE HATE HATE 3e "multiclassing". You aren't learning multiple skills at once, you are switchign jobs like an indecisive college student switches majors. Its just exaggerated dual classing.
@Ludwig_II - Realms Beyond is not an official D&D game. It uses the 3.5E rule set under the terms of the Open Gaming License (OGL), the same license Pathfinder uses for its fork of the 3.5E rules.
Realms Beyond will not be able to use any D&D logos or branding, or specific IP like settings, e.g. the Forgotten Realms.
If one would like to write BG3 storyline, where should he start ?
I’ve said a child of a child of Bhaal. The events of ToB are not clear, did your parent achieve godhood? Are they mortal and still alive? Who was the other parent? You could almost make it an antithesis of Gorion where you are raised in foster care but by those trying to tap into your power possiblly without you knowing or maybe you do and want that power? Maybe you are proud of you heritage?
Journey begins when you have to escape for whatever reason either your foster care decides you need to die to tap into your essence or others hunt you because of your lineage. Then you are out in the big world little baby level 1 to explore and the stroy can follow on from there.
I still think a nice twist would be playing the character to think you are the child of thee Child of Bhaal but flip it and discover you are actually Sarevok and Tamoko’s love child a true child of evil!
Thats a starting point I guess.
Edit* problem with Tamoko as it restricts character race. Maybe Sarevok has a fling? Hell your foster carer could be revealed to be Tamoko alive and well looking out for Sarevoks progeny.
Just gonna point out that just like it's likely a game would be 5th ed, it's also likely it would take place in the 5th ed timeline, which is over a hundred years past the BG series.
Just gonna point out that just like it's likely a game would be 5th ed, it's also likely it would take place in the 5th ed timeline, which is over a hundred years past the BG series.
Likely, but there is precedent for games to take place outside the current timeline. BG1/BG2 took place in 1367/1368 DR, following the Time of Troubles, i.e., the 2E AD&D timeline. However, IWD1 took place in 1281 DR, while IWD2 took place in 1312 DR (despite using 3E-ish rules).
Just gonna point out that just like it's likely a game would be 5th ed, it's also likely it would take place in the 5th ed timeline, which is over a hundred years past the BG series.
Likely, but there is precedent for games to take place outside the current timeline. BG1/BG2 took place in 1367/1368 DR, following the Time of Troubles, i.e., the 2E AD&D timeline. However, IWD1 took place in 1281 DR, while IWD2 took place in 1312 DR (despite using 3E-ish rules).
^This. WotC itself at one point a few years ago said as much, although it was regarding the FR novels, saying novels could be set in timelines other than the current year. Maybe they will be more strict with games, and all of their new PnP modules have been set in the current timeline, but I agree it is possible a new 5e game could still be set in an older timeline.
Could be if the leaker is trusted they didn’t make a distinction between Baldur’s Gate and DnD property. Like they see wizard of the coast meetings and stuff and the company direcrs its devs to start looking at Baldur’s Gate which is a succesful DnD game IP and the leaker simply thinks DnD = Baldur’s Gate.
Buuuuuut. Brian Fargo said he knows who is working in BG3. If Larians were developing a DnD game that is not Baldur’s Gate 3 someone still is...
Comments
@killerrabbit, no I was neither trolling nor joking, while also not trying to be unreasonable or a jerk. I was merely being analytical, and based on my analysis of everything I recall being discussed on these very forums about SoD licensing and from what WotC has itself said in the past about editions and licensing, I do consider it a truth that WotC will not allow an older rules edition to be used for a new standalone game. So, yes, I can consider that to be a fact, even while you can disagree. It's all good.
They can't hurt me if I don't hype.
While we appreciate the support, this thread is here to discuss BG3. Any questions or concerns regarding moderation should be directed to a moderator via a PM.
Thanks,
-Site Staff
Personally, just like Fallout 3 I’d be initially disappointed but appreciate the experience for what it is. Exploring the realms in an immersive first person RPG ala recent Fallouts and Skyrim and throw in pen and paper mechanics could be really interesting.
Ultimately though, just like Fallout 3 I think a party based, isometric, beautiful looking, tastefully written, deep mechanics and lots of exloring and sleuthing fun wih an ominous over arching story is what I really want from a Baldur’s Gate 3. I still think the best route is a child of a child of Bhaal. Maybe insinuate you are the child of the ascended character but you discover you are actually Sarevok and Tamoko love child
For me personally, the whole isometric thing has been worn out..
PoE 2, D:OS2, Pathfinder.. they're all modern, good games, but they bore the ever living crap out of me.. I don't know why exactly, but i feel that isometric is just not for me anymore.
It's not engaging enough, to just watch some loon who represents "me" in the game hit things whilst waiting for the result.
I suppose gameplay ala Diablo/Torchlight would feel a little more engaging and fun.
2E with opening up the class system (Druid Dwarfs and Conjuring Half Orcs?) and adding in extra races and classes. Top that with what we’ve come to expect from BG with a nice expansive new location, intricate quests/story and colorful characters and I would be sold. If that all happens but it’s 5E instead it’s not a deal breaker for me.
I actually think they should not have allowed multiclasses at all in 2E. Multiclasses are ridiculously OP. Dual class is an okay option though, which has more reasonable restrictions.
In my opinion, 3Es leveling up mechanism with allowing new classes each level is ridiculous. It killed the whole essence of being a pure class, making it inferior. And they provided those prestige classes...I hate 3E so much.
2E is awesome. I wish we could continue having more games on 2E. But I guess I'm in the minority, who thinks 2E is the best.
And another thing, I don't want to spark up another argument but I just checked Realms Beyond kickstarter today and it says they will be using 3.5E. And this is a game that will probably arrive in 2020. So, it's not like the rule of God that noone can use anything before 5E anymore, is it? Maybe we should try not to have too strong opinions on what can or cannot happen on things beyond our control.
Having said that, I also agree that BG3 will probably be in 5E. But I don't care about the edition, as long as we get BG3 eventually, I'll be happy.
Realms Beyond will not be able to use any D&D logos or branding, or specific IP like settings, e.g. the Forgotten Realms.
As for Beyond’s mechanics, it looks like they are trying to emulate the PnP turn based combat which was me intrigued, even if I’m against turn based for Baldur’s Gate 3.
As for 3E single class, I know you can do it but at the back of my mind I feel like I’m hampering my character and not doing so is ‘playing the game wrong’. The system seems designed for mixing and matching and the community clearly loves to do so but I just don’t feel the need to or how substantial the benefits will be 8 levels later without doing a bunch of research.
Fighter: Level 7
Mage: Level 8
Thief: Level 8
Fighter/Mage: Level 6/6
Fighter/Mage/Thief: 6/5/6
Notice that adding a bunch of fighter levels to a mage only gives them a slight drop in spellcasting power in exchange for much stronger attack stats and so forth.
In 3E, however, your total class levels are a single lump you have to distribute evenly. A party with 100,000 XP apiece in 3E is balanced much differently:
Fighter: Level 15
Mage: Level 15
Thief: level 15
Fighter/Mage: Level 7/8 or 8/7
Fighter/Mage/Thief: 5/5/5
When the single-classed mage is casting Finger of Death, the Fighter/Mage has only just learned Stoneskin, and the Fighter/Mage/Thief has only just learned Fireball.
You can argue that multi-classes are stronger than single-classes in both editions, or weaker than single-classes in both editions, but 2E is much more generous with levels for multi-classes than 3E.
Granted, 3E has its own multi-classing issues in that most of the benefits of certain classes can be gained at low levels. A mage can get a whole bunch of feats just by taking a single level in fighter, and a rogue gets evasion at level 2. Thus, a Fighter/Mage/Thief could be good at all roles by taking a 1/12/2 split, only being a couple spell levels behind a level 15 mage while still having far more non-magical strengths.
Journey begins when you have to escape for whatever reason either your foster care decides you need to die to tap into your essence or others hunt you because of your lineage. Then you are out in the big world little baby level 1 to explore and the stroy can follow on from there.
I still think a nice twist would be playing the character to think you are the child of thee Child of Bhaal but flip it and discover you are actually Sarevok and Tamoko’s love child a true child of evil!
Thats a starting point I guess.
Edit* problem with Tamoko as it restricts character race. Maybe Sarevok has a fling? Hell your foster carer could be revealed to be Tamoko alive and well looking out for Sarevoks progeny.
Hey, it could be worse.
thinking face emoji
Maybe Wotc has other D&D games in mind other than BG3.
Buuuuuut. Brian Fargo said he knows who is working in BG3. If Larians were developing a DnD game that is not Baldur’s Gate 3 someone still is...
http://tylerjacobson.blogspot.com/2014/10/tyranny-of-dragons.html?m=1