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The Politics Thread

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,855
    edited January 2019
    Birds of a feather......


    Pay special attention to what Israeli TV did when it was obvious what the speech was about. They cut away from it. American TV media is far too stupid to realize they are being played the exact same way tomorrow night. Instead, they will unquestioningly air propaganda. CBS has already given in. But wait.....there's more:


    Liberal media my ass. All the networks have now caved. This is perhaps the most blatant double standard I have ever seen. Obama was denied prime time to discuss the exact same issue in 2014. What possible justification is there for ceding Trump the airwaves given these facts??

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    semiticgoddessbob_vengThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,255

    Birds of a feather......


    Pay special attention to what Israeli TV did when it was obvious what the speech was about. They cut away from it. American TV media is far too stupid to realize they are being played the exact same way tomorrow night. Instead, they will unquestioningly air propaganda. CBS has already given in. But wait.....there's more:


    Liberal media my ass. All the networks have now caved. This is perhaps the most blatant double standard I have ever seen. Obama was denied prime time to discuss the exact same issue in 2014. What possible justification us there for ceding Trump the airwaves given these facts??
    They don't want to be scooped when he declares martial law and the stormtroopers march on Capitol Hill...

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,855
    Maybe the media should have just compromised with Obama and shown 3/5ths of his immigration speech.

    This is ridiculous. This is a direct result of the cowering fear the mainstream press lives in of being branded as "liberal" by the right. This is the same media that Trump called the enemy of the people (again) less than 12 hours ago. This is stockholm syndrome. They are giving him a 10 minute infomercial for the wall. Besides Russia, besides campaign finance conspiracies, look to the media acting exactly like this in 2016 as to why this guy got elected. And they have learned nothing. It's getting worse.

    ThacoBell
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    The article also explains it. When Obama requested it was in the middle of November which is a sweep month. Viewership during this time directly effects advertisement costs. Running a presidential address during that time would kill viewership and the big networks left it up to their cable affiliates if they wanted to run it or not.

    January isn't a sweep month (February is). Both CBS and Fox are scheduled to air reruns at that time, hence why they were the first to say "We'll air it." ABC and NBC who are airing The Bachelor and America's Got Talent respectively don't want to be out scooped. Expect them to just push back the start time of those shows. Trump's idiocy brings views as well, more than Obama talking seriously about a serious problem. Trump declaring martial law and pundits talking for (Fox) and against (everyone else) it would still be good entertainment and viewership.

    semiticgoddessGrond0Balrog99
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    either way, we all know he's going to do nothing but spout lies and make a little show of crazy.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,855
    edited January 2019
    deltago said:

    The article also explains it. When Obama requested it was in the middle of November which is a sweep month. Viewership during this time directly effects advertisement costs. Running a presidential address during that time would kill viewership and the big networks left it up to their cable affiliates if they wanted to run it or not.

    January isn't a sweep month (February is). Both CBS and Fox are scheduled to air reruns at that time, hence why they were the first to say "We'll air it." ABC and NBC who are airing The Bachelor and America's Got Talent respectively don't want to be out scooped. Expect them to just push back the start time of those shows. Trump's idiocy brings views as well, more than Obama talking seriously about a serious problem. Trump declaring martial law and pundits talking for (Fox) and against (everyone else) it would still be good entertainment and viewership.

    So the decision-making factor on whether to run a partisan advertisement for ONE party during the midst of government shutdown over a made-up crisis is......ratings??? I'll be as blunt as possible here: this is literally the worst explanation and excuse imaginable and (since you are at least partially correct), we really are good and truly fucked. Publicly-owned airwaves are deciding to run state propaganda (with, as of yet, NO offer of a response time for Democrats) based on reality TV ratings, because the President is a former reality TV star, and we are living right in the middle of idiocracy.

    But the important thing to remember is this: if this President is allowed to just declare an entirely make-believe national emergency to get funds for a wall Congress will not fund, the precedent is set for all time. A Democratic President can't get Congress to sign off on new low income housing and renewable energy projects?? Simple, declare a national emergency and fund it anyway. If the same President wants to triple food stamp benefits when a Republican House won't provide the money?? Easy peasy.....national emergency. Any fool can see where this is going. If he does declare a national emergency over the wall, we are collectively insane as a country if we don't start impeachment hearings the next morning. He would be declaring himself a tyrant. Moreover, it would continue the unmistakable trend of nothing less than the nullification of Democratic election victories. No Supreme Court appointments for duly-elected Presidents. State legislatures changing the nature of offices in lame-duck sessions. And now we seem to be on the cusp of the Executive Branch essentially declaring what is for all intents and purposes martial law to bypass a newly-elected Democratic Congress.

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    Grond0Balrog99ThacoBell
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited January 2019
    This guy gets it. And if strong Democrats don't check him, who will??

    jjstraka34ThacoBell
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    More news.

    Migrants from Mexico worry and Smugglers get richer

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/06/world/americas/mexico-migrants-smugglers.html?fbclid=IwAR2fGQGWNqR_XXbG00MucDi7K-d96quePIJ4EAf-hzQ5ZEasMtTFTM8R7gE

    Case Closed: The Justice Department Won’t Stand Behind Its Report on Immigrants and Terrorism

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/case-closed-justice-department-wont-stand-behind-its-report-immigrants-and-terrorism?fbclid=IwAR3VvPDhBKmMql2nD7Zp-FUBZgfJYnZNQ6E3Y6OQG_2zlYZzSHt6J-QTNAI
    Don’t look now, but the United States Department of Justice just came perilously close to admitting that it engaged in disinformation about immigrants and terrorism in a formal government report.
    I say perilously close, because the department did not quite admit it; in fact, the letter sent to a group of people, including me, who had raised concerns about a report the Justice Department published last January, announces that the department has concluded that “the Report should not be withdrawn or corrected.”
    But the letter, sent to us by Deputy Assistant Attorney General Michael H. Allen, also concedes that “the Report could be criticized by some readers, consistent with some of the concerns presented,” and promises that the department will follow the “principles” of an obscure law known as the Information Quality Act better “in issuing future reports ... to better present such information to the public.” This is about as close as the Trump administration is going to get to admitting that it used a formal government report to distort data to slime Muslims and immigrants.

    More coal-fired power plants have closed under Trump than in Obama’s first term

    https://wgno.com/2019/01/07/more-coal-fired-power-plants-have-closed-under-trump-than-in-obamas-first-term/?fbclid=IwAR2Ufh5Scf4ZaTjtdiwqeMaqV-5hAalIlSQ4M_vfuNU2G1Uhlf8Sir1yVQ8
    So much for Trump bringing coal back...
    As fracked natural gas and renewables like wind and solar undercut the price of coal, both Mitchell and the nearby Hatfield’s Ferry power plants were deactivated on the same day in 2013.
    Many in this corner of coal country blamed Obama-era regulations on their demise, so when a candidate named Donald Trump promised to end a so-called “war on coal,” they were ready to believe.
    “We are putting our great coal miners back to work,” he repeated to rally crowds waving “Trump Digs Coal” signs. “I’m coal’s last shot.”

    'Knock It Off': Judge Upbraids Reed Smith Partner Litigating Mueller Case

    https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/2019/01/07/knock-it-off-judge-upbraids-reed-smith-partner-litigating-mueller-case/?fbclid=IwAR0mAtTygTdVWGl5Eofnoyf6nMvbDU1yHnMXTPRLxNtE-NXDuPHpFb7k1Ik&slreturn=20190008024444
    Reed Smith partner Eric Dubelier, who represents Concord Management and Consulting, raised the prospect that he might no longer represent the company, given the judge’s remarks.

    The Trump administration is considering a major rollback of civil rights regulation

    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18167275/disparate-impact-civil-rights-trump-administration?fbclid=IwAR01OSHi7nJ7mP3hWDFlD6tTfAedV0Wn_uGrR6cDAMBa3ZFwH2bjCBAVQIU
    This isn't the first time I've heard this.

    DONALD TRUMP'S TRADE WARS HAVE COST NEBRASKA FARMERS OVER $1 BILLION AND COUNTING, FARM BUREAU SAYS

    https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-trade-wars-have-cost-nebraska-farmers-over-1-billion-and-1244607?fbclid=IwAR3zygiWp1_zBY5Rfa9se1VznWGZuRFdgvuOSefCQiGc5nH6a-Opahgj4Is

    Gov. Bill Haslam grants full clemency to Cyntoia Brown, sets Aug. 7 release from prison

    https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2019/01/07/cyntoia-brown-clemency-case-facts-story-bill-haslam/2267025002/?utm_source=tennessean-News+Alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news_alerts&utm_term=news_alert&fbclid=IwAR36W-fva_u0ToV9i4tHUkCM6cndavw-512DGIUsDOjxm4rceeDIK4o060w

    Cyntoia Brown granted clemency by Tennessee governor

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cyntoia-brown-granted-clemency-tennessee-governor-n955706?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma&fbclid=IwAR3WqcCCgt322zq1i0g8D6jndvXkqpv98S1BR_nmeYK4Py5mpCmkkQ7Ai3E

    Trump Veers Off Message on the Border Wall

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/trump-border-wall-construction-pentagon/?fbclid=IwAR3yzeh64JG2Mq7hMcHMs85AeO_D-1imfbDWpRS3sFRHCytNX2J-00VEP9A
    Donald Trump spent much of his 2016 campaign railing against President Obama’s misuse of executive power, especially Obama’s decision to extend legal protection to underage children who were brought to the U.S. by their foreign parents.
    But now President Trump, frustrated by Congress’s failure to deliver $5 billion in funding for the border wall, is proposing to bend the Constitution to get what he wants. Trump told reporters that he may be willing to declare a state of national emergency to build the wall “very quickly” without congressional backing, and that he may even use “the military version of eminent domain” to seize the property such a structure might need. “I can do it if I want,” he declared.

    Two Weeks Into Shutdown, Hundreds of TSA Agents Have Stopped Showing Up for Work

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/government-shutdown-trump-hundreds-of-tsa-agents-have-stopped-showing-up-for-work.html?fbclid=IwAR2zS4ySfetOQ9lXoQYKLQ2d6jmaSUxEw95g1mZk4kQu6UhuRB1EgSP9Klo
    Donald Trump recently suggested that he has the upper hand in the government shutdown fight because “most of the people not getting paid are Democrats.” By this, the president meant that his party depends less on the support of federal workers than Chuck Schumer’s does, and that Democrats will therefore have a harder time standing their ground during a prolonged shutdown than he will.
    Beyond the moral odiousness of this position, there was one strategic flaw in Trump’s reasoning: Precisely because they’re aligned with Democratic Party, public-sector unions are likely to be more willing to engage in work stoppages under a GOP president than they might be under a pro-labor one.
    Two weeks into the shutdown, formal labor militancy has yet to materialize. But an informal pseudo-strike is already taking shape at America’s major airports.

    All 4 Living Former Presidents Contradict Trump’s Claim That They Support Border Wall

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/former-presidents-contradict-trump-border-wall-lie_us_5c33b093e4b05d4e96bb06c9?utm_source=main_fb&section=politics&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&fbclid=IwAR1OmuEH-mjMPOH9j4qyC7r_f5rxunFF3IRRhVymYq-8UpaFLurXIXwpLXE
    All four living former presidents deny telling Donald Trump that they support his long-promised border wall, contradicting the president’s false claim that his predecessors “told me that we should have” built the wall.
    “This should have been done by all of the presidents that preceded me, and they all know it,” Trump said during a news conference on Friday. “Some of them have told me that we should have done it.”
    On Monday, former President Jimmy Carter joined the three other living former presidents in confirming that Trump lied about the claim.
    “I have not discussed the border wall with President Trump, and do not support him on the issue,” Carter said in a statement through his presidential center.

    Tlaib Apologizes For “Impeach The Motherfucker” Comment; Meant To Say “Imprison The Motherfucker”

    https://medium.com/@allanishac/tlaib-apologizes-for-impeach-the-motherfucker-comment-meant-to-say-imprison-the-motherfucker-11da344bfc85?fbclid=IwAR2qUzH_IOsctES6rB9I6r3YrWVeDWWOiH7OUMtcMwNU4g9O-VrsGazFtME
    In a correction over the weekend, the liberal congresswoman said, “It was wrong to yell out ‘impeach the motherfucker,’ when I actually meant ‘imprison the motherfucker.’ Or maybe impeach and imprison. Or maybe impeach, imprison, and then hang the motherfucker as a traitor. Or maybe impeach, flog, and deport the bastard to Russia. Along with his culpable family and all his criminal cabinet members and cronies. In any case, I misspoke.”

    Millions could face severe cuts to food stamps due to government shutdown

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/government-shutdown-affect-snap-food-stamps-wic-millions-could-face-severe-cuts-in-2019-funding-usda/?fbclid=IwAR3nNqRUnpYrH--WBjucSYmKPcA671wUPErBFkHUHMQgAD3l8YtseagyzHA
    The partial government shutdown glided into its third week Saturday with no end in sight. If the government is not reopened before February, millions of Americans who receive benefits from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) -- the nation's food stamp program — could have their assistance disrupted.
    The U.S. Department of Agriculture, which oversees SNAP at the federal level, is one of the agencies unfunded during the partial government shutdown. Although SNAP is automatically renewed, it has not been allocated funding from Congress beyond January. Congress has appropriated $3 billion in emergency funds for SNAP distribution, but that would not cover all of February's obligations.
    In September 2018, the last month for which data is available, $4.7 billion in SNAP benefits were disbursed throughout every state. If the shutdown continues through March, there will be no remaining funding for SNAP, endangering food security for millions of Americans.

    Trump to deliver prime-time address on security ‘crisis’ amid government shutdown

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4823197/trump-national-address-border-wall-shutdown/?utm_source=notification/
    Trump's government had 2 years to pass that shizz when the Republicans were in Power. I guess it wasn't that much of an emergency.

    The People vs. Donald Trump: Every Major Lawsuit and Investigation the President Faces

    http://fortune.com/2018/09/21/donald-trump-lawsuit-investigation-charges-news-update/?fbclid=IwAR0km7spaCkiTzBbM6I6xIrgswLIiU-fe5KLWCG7LITxr1amvG_n0leBqYE

    RNC Misleads on ‘Immoral’ Democratic Bill

    https://www.factcheck.org/2019/01/rnc-misleads-on-immoral-democratic-bill/?fbclid=IwAR20tfdjLSVx2Chnkj_Pk49lgbpMwonTaBfF6TgG4HTLpB1Eb11lf0GK3-w
    Republican National Committee tweets in recent days have attacked a Democratic-sponsored bill in the House as “immoral” because it “would spend $54 billion taxpayer dollars on foreign countries” but not address “the border crisis here at home.”
    But that’s the same amount that Republican-controlled appropriations committees approved in June for the State Department’s operations and programs, which includes foreign assistance.

    Global warming of oceans equivalent to an atomic bomb per second

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/07/global-warming-of-oceans-equivalent-to-an-atomic-bomb-per-second?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR2x2KeANZr5rkxZ1c431GYoZT7ciPU-h-1zC3kPoBOOenEOip0KHU6QTPE

    NBC News: Only six immigrants in terrorism database stopped by CBP at southern border in first half of 2018

    https://www.newsandguts.com/link/nbc-news-only-six-immigrants-in-terrorism-database-stopped-by-cbp-at-southern-border-in-first-half-of-2018/?fbclid=IwAR0SassPNZxsT7oDznX-lr8dQALiqG3H2F3ws0V3f8_1Vu5oB0qHmUX0ano
    Or, as Rachel Maddow put it, "Maybe they were rounding up to the nearest 4000."

    9 Things Teachers Need if the United States Ever Wants Another Globally Competitive Generation

    https://www.weareteachers.com/what-teachers-need/?utm_content=1546815660&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0jKfygTfkjKJWkDxobrdUokoPqChoPJsIrIUHfYmbEihl1mHYgwEkpVFg

    First Nations declare war on Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau

    http://www.whitewolfpack.com/2018/06/first-nations-declare-war-on-canadian.html?fbclid=IwAR3vKNJwFu9CMygNTRKj_nvR0NlCf_Ur9zmnTy1oWRfQGSyJc8JEUwQ4wfE
    “They are declaring war on our people because we have said no. We have said no, no passage. You cannot bring this pipeline through our lands,”

    Millions Of Women In India Join Hands To Form A 385-Mile Wall Of Protest

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/01/04/681988452/millions-of-women-in-india-join-hands-to-form-a-385-mile-wall-of-protest?fbclid=IwAR1lf6937mmWsp-KPEFCBAHulDt4dBs4k8HGL1ymEyWCvGGEOjg2tOh45_E

    Dystopian warnings wrapped up in pretty boxes

    https://crosscut.com/2019/01/dystopian-warnings-wrapped-pretty-boxes?utm_source=crosscut-facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1n3yHCuaNr4aJZg9Pu_vf2t9AspqNFZ1amS2i6xuA51Jd0T1ZP6hhx7AE

    FDNY Firefighter Dies After Falling Off Bridge in Brooklyn Helping Car Crash Victims

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/FDNY-Firefighter-Dies-Fall-Brooklyn-Mill-Basin-Bridge-503983181.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_NYBrand&fbclid=IwAR2VbrwggXDSLKmysNWZtVHTep-53SDXnQKpvIexhkHzE5P1UMdeBJ07Tg4

    Franklin Graham tells Jimmy Carter that Jesus would kill gay people, not marry them

    https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/07/franklin-graham-tells-jimmy-carter-jesus-kill-gay-people-not-marry/?fbclid=IwAR0zQYR3dgrl71u1qkmDCoGfPi2AfS_nzF-Bsjo8djeTmq4u3xo8HujQuhA#.XC4Cw3QjVDQ.facebook
    Responding to former President Jimmy Carter’s statement that Jesus would support same-sex marriage, Trump supporter and supposed Christian, Franklin Graham launched a blistering attack on Facebook.
    Jesus wouldn’t bless gay couples, the far right minister says. Instead, God would kill them all.
    “Jesus didn’t come to promote sin, He came to save us from sin,” Graham wrote. “The Bible is very clear. God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality. God defines sin in His Word—it’s not up to our opinion, the latest poll, or a popular vote.”
    “God loves us and gives us the truth in His Word. He warns us of the serious consequences of sin,” Graham finished before launching into one of the Bible verses that evangelicals use to condemn LGBT people.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    LadyRhian said:



    Franklin Graham tells Jimmy Carter that Jesus would kill gay people, not marry them

    https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/07/franklin-graham-tells-jimmy-carter-jesus-kill-gay-people-not-marry/?fbclid=IwAR0zQYR3dgrl71u1qkmDCoGfPi2AfS_nzF-Bsjo8djeTmq4u3xo8HujQuhA#.XC4Cw3QjVDQ.facebook
    Responding to former President Jimmy Carter’s statement that Jesus would support same-sex marriage, Trump supporter and supposed Christian, Franklin Graham launched a blistering attack on Facebook.
    Jesus wouldn’t bless gay couples, the far right minister says. Instead, God would kill them all.
    “Jesus didn’t come to promote sin, He came to save us from sin,” Graham wrote. “The Bible is very clear. God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality. God defines sin in His Word—it’s not up to our opinion, the latest poll, or a popular vote.”
    “God loves us and gives us the truth in His Word. He warns us of the serious consequences of sin,” Graham finished before launching into one of the Bible verses that evangelicals use to condemn LGBT people.
    Perhaps this should be in the other thread, but I agree this is clearly the biblical position. There is nothing that Jesus supposedly said in support of the gays.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @FinneousPJ Jesus also hung out with the outcasts and disliked people of society. And the Legionnaire with the slave he cured, I have heard that the slave was the lover of the Legonnaire.

    There is also talk of Jesus' "Most beloved disciple", and how Jesus fed him from his own hands while his head was lying in Jesus' lap (in the original greek "On his breast/bosom". and the naked man who ran from Jesus' tent when the Pharisees came to arrest Jesus. (Mark 14:51 A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him he fled naked, leaving his garment behind.)

    In art, the Beloved Disciple is often portrayed as a beardless youth, usually as one of the Twelve Apostles at the Last Supper or with Mary at the crucifixion. In some medieval art, the Beloved Disciple is portrayed with his head in Christ's lap. Many artists have given different interpretations of John 13:25 which has the disciple whom Jesus loved "reclining next to Jesus" (v. 23; more literally, "on/at his breast/bosom," en to kolpo).

    Matthew 19:10-12 Here Jesus refers to "eunuchs who have been so from birth." This terminology ("born eunuchs") was used in the ancient world to refer to homosexual men. Jesus indicates that being a "born eunuch" is a gift from God.

    Some Christians confidently assert that God did not create homosexual people "that way." This is important because they realize if God did create gays "that way," rejecting them would be tantamount to rejecting God’s work in creation. In pressing their “creation order” argument, some Christians are fond of saying, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" To bolster their position, they often cite Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:4-5, where he responds to a question about whether divorce is permissible:
    “Jesus answered, ‘Have you not read that the One who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh”? Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.’ ”
    From these words, some Christians draw the conclusion that heterosexuality is the creation norm and, thus, heterosexual marriage is the only legitimate way for people to form romantic relationships. Ironically, Jesus’ own words in this very same passage refute these conclusions.
    As the dialogue continues, Jesus’ disciples are disturbed by his strict teaching on divorce. The disciples say that if divorce is not a ready option, perhaps it would be best for a man not to marry a woman. Jesus responds:
    “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)
    Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time.
    In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire. (For a complete discussion of the term "born eunuch" and the connection with homosexuality, see The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man.) As a reasonably informed person of his time, Jesus would have been aware of this common view of eunuchs. Yet he very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way. The implication of his statement is profound — God created gay people the way they are! Jesus says so.
    Unlike Rabbi Eliezer, Jesus feels no need to “cure” these born eunuchs. He speaks no words of condemnation. Rather he lists people born gay alongside another honored class (eunuchs for the kingdom), and accepts them as a natural part of God’s creation order.
    Thus, when Matthew 19 is read as a whole, we see Jesus teaches that most people are created for heterosexual marriage. (We too accept this as God’s predominant creation paradigm.) But, unlike some modern Christians, Jesus does not see this as the only honorable way to live. He acknowledges that some human beings have been created by God to follow a less common, but equally legitimate path. There are some who have been eunuchs from birth — made that way by God.

    From this website: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html

    semiticgoddessGrond0ronaldoNonnahswriter
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    None of those mentions gays. I have no idea what you think eunuchs have to do with it.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Born eunuchs, at the time, was a man who wanted other men. From the article above: But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time.
    In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire. (For a complete discussion of the term "born eunuch" and the connection with homosexuality, see The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man.)

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    OK, so some people read the bible like that. Now, how do we know who is correct?

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I make no claims as to the "correctness" of any part of the Bible. Given the many things it gets wrong, I personally don't think any part of it is correct.

    smeagolheart
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    LadyRhian said:

    I make no claims as to the "correctness" of any part of the Bible. Given the many things it gets wrong, I personally don't think any part of it is correct.

    I mean how do we know whose interpretation is correct, as in what the writers were trying to communicate.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Personally, we can't rely on modern-day interpretations. We have to rely on those who know what the words meant when they were written.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    LadyRhian said:

    Personally, we can't rely on modern-day interpretations. We have to rely on those who know what the words meant when they were written.

    Exactly. So how do we know what the person meant when they wrote it?

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Okay, morning gnus. Spoilered.

    Muslim youth pick up litter in national parks to clean up Trump's government shutdown mess

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/7/1824161/-Muslim-youth-pick-up-litter-in-national-parks-to-clean-up-Trump-s-government-shutdown-mess?detail=emaildkre
    Members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association (AMYA), a youth group for Muslim men and boys across the country, spent the weekend cleaning trash in national parks. Why? After President Donald Trump threw a tantrum and sent the government into a partial shutdown, many parks have been operating with minimal staff, leading to a huge increase in trash and litter that’s not being collected. The government has been shut down for just over two weeks, and the trash is already becoming a long-term issue.
    These young Muslim men have decided to do something about that.
    “We could not sit idly by as our national parks collected trash,” a statement from the association's president, Madeel Abdullah, explained. “We will lead by example and dispose of this garbage appropriately and invite all Americans to join us in these parks and others across the nation.”

    Thanks to Trump's war on DACA, Rhodes scholar may not be able to come back to the only home he knows

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/4/1823535/-Thanks-to-Trump-s-war-on-DACA-Rhodes-Scholar-may-not-be-able-to-come-back-to-the-only-home-he-knows?detail=emaildkre
    The very first DACA recipient of the prestigious Rhodes Scholarship has revealed that he fears he won’t be able to return to the United States if he accepts the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to study at England’s Oxford University. In an interview with the Associated Press Friday, Jin Park, 22, who graduated from Harvard University last month, explained the real risks he faces by investing in his future.
    “If I leave, there’s a very real possibility that I won’t be able to come back. That’s the biggest fear for sure,” said Park, whose family came to the U.S. from South Korea when he was 7 years old. “I haven’t really thought about what that’s going to mean if I’m not allowed back.”

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says there's 'no question' Trump is a racist. Only Republicans are shocked

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/7/1824164/-Alexandria-Ocasio-Cortez-says-there-s-no-question-Trump-is-a-racist-Only-Republicans-are-shocked?utm_campaign=recent?detail=emaildkre
    On Sunday, during an interview with Anderson Cooper, New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said what we all know and have been thinking for years now: that Donald Trump is a racist. This is not newsworthy or particularly shocking information. And unlike a lot of the folks who feel the need to dance around Trump’s racism because they want to maintain “civil” discourse or flat-out lie about it, Ocasio-Cortez simply and unapologetically told the truth.
    “Do you believe President Trump is a racist?” Cooper asked haltingly during a “60 Minutes” interview with the 29-year-old congresswoman that aired Sunday.
    Ocasio-Cortez, however, didn’t pause before responding firmly, “Yeah. Yeah. No question.”

    Ocasio-Cortez stands up to critics of Rep. Tlaib’s impeachment f-bomb: ‘I got your back’

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/5/1823839/-Ocasio-Cortez-stand-up-to-critics-of-Rep-Tlaib-s-impeachment-f-bomb-I-got-your-back?detail=emaildkre
    New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has no problem defending fellow Democratic congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, the newly-elected representative for Michigan. Tlaib has received a lot of criticism for her remark to “impeach the motherf---er," in reference to President Donald Trump.
    Tlaib made the comment at a reception on Thursday evening, and if you’ve followed her campaign, it isn’t anything surprising. A video of her comments went viral, and she’s faced criticism from both sides of the aisle. But Ocasio-Cortez isn’t having it.
    Ocasio-Cortez first defended Tlaib’s comments in an interview with CNN Friday evening, saying, "I certainly think [impeachment is] a valid question and it's one that a lot of voters were interested in having in the run-up to the election," Ocasio-Coretz said. "It's a legitimate discussion to have."
    Then she revisited the subject again on Saturday, to give a witty commentary on Twitter.
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

    @AOC
    Republican hypocrisy at its finest: saying that Trump admitting to sexual assault on tape is just “locker room talk,” but scandalizing themselves into faux-outrage when my sis says a curse word in a bar.
    GOP lost entitlement to policing women’s behavior a long time ago.
    Next.

    'Fear. It's just plain, flat-out fear.' Trump's shutdown sends federal workers to food pantries

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/7/1824167/--Fear-It-s-just-plain-flat-out-fear-Trump-s-shutdown-sends-federal-workers-to-food-pantries?detail=emaildkre
    The federal workers being affected by Donald Trump’s government shutdown don’t just live in the Washington, D.C., area—and the economic impact of those missing paychecks goes beyond just federal workers. While Washington has the highest concentration of federal workers in the country, at more than 12,000 per 100,000 residents, Alaska and Montana have 1,699 and 1,500 federal employees per 100,000 people, and Wyoming, South Dakota, and New Mexico also have significant federal employment.
    In Ogden, Utah, a city of 87,000 with more than 4,000 federal workers, downtown is noticeably empty and the city expects lowered sales tax revenue, which accounts for a third of annual revenue. The city’s director of community and economic development says that “The lunches that are missed and the shopping that is missed, people are staying at home, and that really hurts our small-business community.”

    Sexist double standard arrives early in 2020 race

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1822919/-Sexist-double-standard-arrives-early-in-2020-race?detail=emaildkre
    Well, that didn’t take long, did it? It’s 22 months until the next presidential election, and already one potential Democratic female candidate is being trashed while one Republican male who’s not even a candidate is being treated like an elder statesman who might challenge Donald Trump.
    On the last day of 2018, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren announced the formation of a presidential exploratory committee—the first step in announcing an actual run—with a video that lasted four and a half minutes and gave details of what drove her to run for public office, focusing on her work to regulate big banks and to help consumers. Her website invites people to join the team.
    Within a day, the specifics of her announcement were being ignored, and she was being criticized for being unlikable and inauthentic. Never mind the fact that she beat her opponent by nearly 25 points in the recent midterm election.
    Mitt Romney, the brand-new junior senator from Utah, wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post criticizing Trump’s character, saying that Trump “falls short” of what a president should be (an obvious conclusion that the majority of the country agrees with), and it was front-page news everywhere. Now Romney is practically being treated like a possible Republican second coming. (That’s an interesting way to describe a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints, since Mormons believe that the new Jerusalem will be built on the American continent, likely in Missouri, and possibly in Independence, Missouri.)
    There were immediate stories on how Romney could win in 2020 and how there were calls from Republican donors to Romney advisers, with those donors all but chanting, “Run, Mitt, Run.” Never mind the fact that Romney lost the nomination to John McCain in 2008 and lost the race in 2012 when he was the nominee—he’s the anti-Trump flavor of the week. But Trump allies were quick to counterattack, some even suggesting a change in Republican party rules so that it would be harder for a challenger to fight Trump for the GOP nomination. It all turned out to be much ado about nothing: Romney says he won’t challenge Trump in 2020.

    Social worker who duct-taped shoes surprises friends by leaving $11 million to children's charities

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/7/1824168/-Social-worker-who-duct-taped-shoes-surprises-friends-by-leaving-11-million-to-children-s-charities?detail=emaildkre
    Alan Naiman died of cancer last January at the age of 63. He had lived and worked for the last two decades of his life as a social worker in Seattle, Washington. According to NPR, he was well-loved by friends, and also well-known for his “comical” frugality— things like duct-taping his shoes together when they were worn down to make them last a little longer. Before his death, his friends considered their “loner” friend to simply be eccentric. Little did they know that Naiman had a plan, "leaving most of a surprising $11 million estate to children’s charities that help the poor, sick, disabled and abandoned."

    Torture apologist Liz Cheney weighs in on somebody else saying a swear word

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1824054/-Torture-apologist-Liz-Cheney-weighs-in-on-somebody-else-saying-a-swear-word?detail=emaildkre
    I wasn't going to comment on Rep. Rashida Tlaib saying A Swear Word because it is self-evidently a petty, pissy little story, the sort of quick skillet-fried story that a certain brand of conservative punditry relies on but which would pass without comment in nearly any other American context. But then Liz Fucking Cheney, Torture Apologist weighed in on it, and that was a bit much, so here we are.
    “You’ve had very foul language used,” said House GOP chair Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.), whose dad, former Vice President Dick Cheney, in 2004 told Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) to “fuck yourself” while the two were on the Senate floor for a group photo.
    The first thing to know about Rep. Liz Cheney is that she is a torture apologist, and not at all muddied on the subject. She exists in politics because her father, a still-unindicted war criminal directly responsible for the deaths of many thousands of human beings after a campaign of gaudy lies and deceptions, is one of the nastiest works to be ever carved from conservative stock and, therefore, an icon of the movement. She has been a grotesque, cynical human being her entire career, the sort of person who would cheat you out of a dollar just to prove she could, a long line of conservative half-criminals whose begrudging tolerance for democracy relies on just how much they can squeeze out of it, all the while wrapped tight in a flag and protesting in raised voices about how anyone who objects to their antics must obviously hate America, apple pie, and their own mothers.

    Trump claims 'some' former presidents support his wall, but Joe Biden can't think of a single one

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/5/1823851/-Trump-claims-some-former-presidents-support-his-wall-but-Joe-Biden-can-t-think-of-a-single-one?detail=emaildkre
    All the former Presidents still alive have said they DO NOT support his wall.

    WH lawyers are now discussing whether not having a stupid wall is a national emergency

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/5/1823895/-WH-lawyers-are-now-discussing-whether-they-can-declare-not-having-a-wall-a-national-emergency?detail=emaildkre
    If he didn't pass it when Republicans were in charge of the entire government, it can't be such an emergency as all that.

    Plan is bubbling up among Senate Democrats for breaking Trump, McConnell on shutdown

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/7/1824184/-Plan-is-bubbling-up-among-Senate-Democrats-for-breaking-Trump-McConnell-on-shutdown?detail=emaildkre
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is the one person in government who can force Individual 1 to back down on the partial government shutdown and the wall. It will take just one thing: a vote on the bills passed by the House last week to restore funding to the shutdown agencies and buy another month's worth of time to negotiate on border security. That's almost exactly what the Senate unanimously passed on December 19. Since McConnell refuses to act, some Senate Democrats are hatching a plan to force his hand, Greg Sargent reports.
    It started with a tweet from Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) saying that Democrats should use their filibuster power to block any vote on anything unrelated to government funding until McConnell takes up a vote to reopen government. "The Senate should make its first order of business a vote on the House bills to reopen the government," Van Hollen told Sargent. "McConnell and Senate Republicans have to stop contracting out their votes to Donald Trump," Van Hollen continued. "They have an important constitutional role, and we should not have business-as-usual in the Senate until we open the entire federal government."

    Even after decriminalization, nearly all of the people arrested for marijuana in Baltimore are black

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/3/1823255/-Even-after-decriminalization-nearly-all-of-the-people-arrested-for-marijuana-in-Baltimore-are-black?detail=emaildkre

    Trump Cannot Build His Wall By Declaring a “State of Emergency.”

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1824039/-Trump-Cannot-Build-His-Wall-By-Declaring-a-State-of-Emergency?detail=emaildkre
    Well, good. It's not really an emergency- only in Donald Trump's mind it is.

    Why is the historic clock tower at Trump's D.C. hotel open and staffed during the shutdown?

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1823931/-Why-is-this-national-historic-site-at-Trump-s-D-C-hotel-open-and-fully-staffed?detail=emaildkre

    Rapper Snoop Dogg Posts Hilarious, Expletive Filled Screed On Trump, 'He Don't Give A F*ck About Us'

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1824038/-Rapper-Snoop-Dogg-Posts-Hilarious-Expletive-Filled-Screed-On-Trump-He-Don-t-Give-A-F-ck-About-Us?detail=emaildkre
    He says what he thinks. Wow.

    Trump's shutdown hits airports with long security lines, while pilots warn of flying safety risks

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/7/1824137/-Trump-s-shutdown-hits-airports-with-long-security-lines-while-pilots-warn-of-flying-safety-concerns?detail=emaildkre
    The official story from the Transportation Security Administration is that Donald Trump’s government shutdown isn’t having a big impact on airport security lines, claiming that there’s just a slight increase in airport screeners calling out sick while they’re not being paid, that it’s all a “normal occurrence” at the holidays anyway (note: the holidays are over), and that wait times are mostly fine. That’s not what passengers at New York’s LaGuardia International Airport Sunday afternoon would have said while they were stuck in massive lines:
    "I’ve never seen the line in LaGuardia that bad," said John, a frequent business traveler who asked that his last name not be used. "And I probably take the shuttle 40 to 50 times each year, 25 round trips.”
    As a reminder, this isn’t an organized sickout by TSA screeners—it’s an accumulation of individual workers needing to go look for other paying work or feeling unable to pay for child care while they aren’t being paid for their work.

    Christian Bale Thanks Satan At Golden Globes For 'Giving Me Inspiration' To Play Dick Cheney
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1824097/-Christian-Bale-Thanks-Satan-At-Golden-Globes-For-Giving-Me-Inspiration-To-Play-Dick-Cheney?detail=emaildkre
    Actor Christian Bale accepted the Golden Globe for his depiction of Dick Cheney in the movie, “Vice” tonight and he said that this victory would ‘allow me to corner the market on [playing] charisma free assholes. Whose next, Mitch McConnell?”

    How is Trump getting his Putin Talking Points?

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/5/1823880/-How-is-Trump-getting-his-Putin-Talking-Points?detail=emaildkre
    "Could it be... Satan?" The Church Lady

    Anti-Gay Pastor Resigns For Cheating On His Wife With Prostitutes

    https://wokesloth.com/pastor-who-thinks-gay-people-should-be-destroyed-resigns/lindseyweedston/?utm_content=bufferc27b2&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=thegoodlordabove&utm_campaign=bloomjoy&fbclid=IwAR03EWg3fZyXhaVtcoqfry12XYB2HzrcuaePcQ5hNP1a4Vx5zw-lF-26h9Q

    Enough Is Enough. The Air Lines Pilots Association Writes Trump A Letter Telling Him To Get Real

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/5/1823903/-Enough-Is-Enough-The-Airlines-Pilots-Association-Writes-Trump-A-Letter-Telling-Him-To-Get-Real?detail=emaildkre

    Fox's Chris Wallace slams Sarah Sanders over phony 'terrorists-at-border' claim

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1823972/-Fox-s-Chris-Wallace-slams-Sarah-Huckabee-Sanders-over-phony-terrorists-at-border-claim?detail=emaildkre

    When The Zombie "Rube 10-Tooth Base" Starts Eating Its Ancestors.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/6/1823968/-When-The-Zombie-Rube-10-Tooth-Base-Starts-Eating-It-s-Ancestors?detail=emaildkre
    Leave it to Rick Wilson to use his “colorful” rhetoric to stir up a hornets nest with the Republican fascist cult. The other night on CNN he let loose on one of his classic attacks on the Republican base.
    His reply to Twitter comments on his saying:
    1/ In the midst of something close to 2000 emails along the lines of "Suck it, looser" and "I'm going to kill you" there have been a few heartfelt messages expressing hurt over my "ten tooth" line.
    Allow me to make a few observations about this current moment.
    2/ Obviously, not all Trump supporters are ten-toothed rubes, but I'd bet you a hundred quatloos research would prove all ten-toothed rubes are Trump supporters. But that's not really the point, is it? The point is that Trump's base proudly endorses the most lavish cruelty.
    3/ They adopt this language and attitude of unearned swagger and strength, of "fuck your feelings" and imitation of Trump's own cruelty, vulgarity, unjustified chest-thumping. Trumpism isn't, for the 1000th time, conservatism. It's a parasitic infection feeding on hatred.
    4/ The reaction to my throwaway line was a sign of 2 things; the unbelievable political and status insecurity of the Trump voter. They were offended by the dental comment, but they should have been offended by the "rube" comment. Because *I* didn't make them rubes.Trump did.
    5/ Do you want a participation trophy and a pat on the head from me for your utterly credulous dumbassery over Trump's endless list of lies, deceptions, scams, venality, and corruption?I thought unearned merit was what you hated about the *left*.
    6/ The story of the reaction is also a window into the dumbfuckery of the Trump-right outrage machine. It's is the perfect mirror image of the dumb language-and-tone policing of the worst cliches of the social justice crowd. It's failbot Alinsky for dumbasses.
    7/ I'm not going to coddle and cosset people who are proud of being conned, or who embrace cruelty as governance.I was told the new order was all about "fuck your feelings" but apparently MAGA feefees are so delicate a bald dude with big ears and glasses can trigger you.
    8/ Social and status insecurity is the key underpinning of racially inflected nationalism that Trump and Russia (but I repeat myself) weaponized. You don't like someone who pokes it? You don't like someone who calls your shit? I am not your safe space.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,855
    edited January 2019
    Here we have another trek into Trump country by the NY Times (these articles literally never stop being published), this time to ask these very important people what they think of the shutdown. But this one actually contains about the most revealing quote from a Trump voter I have ever seen. Near the end of the article:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/us/florida-government-shutdown-marianna.html

    A few miles away, another prison employee, Crystal Minton, accompanied her fiancé to a friend’s house to help clear the remnants of a metal roof mangled by the hurricane. Ms. Minton, a 38-year-old secretary, said she had obtained permission from the warden to put off her Mississippi duty until early February because she is a single mother caring for disabled parents. Her fiancé plans to take vacation days to look after Ms. Minton’s 7-year-old twins once she has to go to work.

    The shutdown on top of the hurricane has caused Ms. Minton to rethink a lot of things.

    “I voted for him, and he’s the one who’s doing this,” she said of Mr. Trump. “I thought he was going to do good things. He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting.”


    Do tell Ms. Minton. Who are the people Trump "needs to be hurting"?? Not YOU, clearly. Awhile back in the old thread, in response to a very detailed article on the Alt-right, the idea was floated that the defining purpose of the Trump Presidency doesn't seem to be advancement of any kind of concrete conservative policy agenda, but on hurting liberals. And then I'm reminded of this piece, particularly the highlighted part:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

    Taking joy in that suffering is more human than most would like to admit. Somewhere on the wide spectrum between adolescent teasing and the smiling white men in the lynching photographs are the Trump supporters whose community is built by rejoicing in the anguish of those they see as unlike them, who have found in their shared cruelty an answer to the loneliness and atomization of modern life.

    The laughter undergirds the daily spectacle of insincerity, as the president and his aides pledge fealty to bedrock democratic principles they have no intention of respecting. The president who demanded the execution of five black and Latino teenagers for a crime they didn’t commit decrying “false accusations,” when his Supreme Court nominee stands accused; his supporters who fancy themselves champions of free speech meet references to Hillary Clinton or a woman whose only crime was coming forward to offer her own story of abuse with screams of “Lock her up!” The political movement that elected a president who wanted to ban immigration by adherents of an entire religion, who encourages police to brutalize suspects, and who has destroyed thousands of immigrant families for violations of the law less serious than those of which he and his coterie stand accused, now laments the state of due process.

    This isn’t incoherent. It reflects a clear principle: Only the president and his allies, his supporters, and their anointed are entitled to the rights and protections of the law, and if necessary, immunity from it. The rest of us are entitled only to cruelty, by their whim. This is how the powerful have ever kept the powerless divided and in their place, and enriched themselves in the process.

    semiticgoddessGrond0FinneousPJronaldo
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    LadyRhianThacoBellGrond0
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Balrog99
  • EvanJonesEvanJones Member Posts: 6
    (After 40 years of immersion in history, economics, demographics, polity.) You know how it is. No matter how slight a move to the right, it is a "step towards fascism", and no matter how minor a move to the left, it is a "step towards communism". Accompanied by huge drama. (Sigh.) I'd be nice if people had a better understanding of either.

    I dunno about you-all, but I say all of us citizens of Amn should get up a mob (er, I mean "party") and do something about all these miserable, interfering adventurers. Can't even get a good show at the arena anymore. They'll be after the Black Lotus, next!

    Grond0Balrog99LadyRhian
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    The problem is that Sarevok's older, crazier stepfather is power.

  • EvanJonesEvanJones Member Posts: 6
    Hmm. Sometimes a good political filtration system can get the best out of guys like that. It's an old theme in history, even recent history. (As is the opposite story.) And we got the power split up -- Like BG2, the Constitution has its cheese and exploits, but it's fundamentally sound and handles an astounding level of inherent complexity.

    semiticgoddess
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694

    Trump Golf Club Allegedly Gave Out Fake Green Cards and Social Security Numbers

    https://truthout.org/articles/trump-golf-club-allegedly-gave-out-fake-green-cards-and-social-security-numbers/

    AP FACT CHECK: Trump claims innocence in probe; wall myths

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-fact-check-trump-claims-051928567.html?fbclid=IwAR10qtB173qQiWwuuaGBjGFgd3SrvR3KuqQIxAsZlnAUIVnF3Xu8cgeSR-M

    Because of the shutdown, more than 1,000 affordable housing contracts have expired

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/because-shutdown-more-1-000-affordable-housing-contracts-have-expired-n955971?fbclid=IwAR27JqukSIzZsZV4fHnZ4M8ZlQOZP1DAs4SpViNJPZaoB-xWfcl5FyIA6mg
    “It’s a mess,” an affordable housing advocate said. “The pain is coming a lot earlier than we thought.”

    Sen. Mazie Hirono donates salary to food banks helping federal employees in Hawaii amid 'unfair, completely unnecessary' government shutdown

    https://news.yahoo.com/senator-mazie-hirono-donates-salary-help-federal-employees-hawaii-amid-unfair-completely-unnecessary-government-shutdown-200847077.html?fbclid=IwAR272YU584C_jYrvfYtlJ1kUUM0KcaU8CcQdcirnrGQ_G6hk6iXNA_ZuVn0

    A Fake Nude of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Was Debunked By Foot Fetishists

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gy774j/a-fake-nude-of-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-was-debunked-by-foot-fetishists?utm_source=dmfb&fbclid=IwAR0_piCzwKz2meJedkXScWJoJgIgzqBL_hYTZ7SQGJOGXegRmLtaH8ouIuQ
    Wikifeet foiled an attempt to shame the congresswoman with a fake Instagram post

    Fox News host fact-checks Sarah Sanders

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/01/07/sarah-sanders-border-terrorist-claim-fox-news-fact-check-intv-es-vpx.cnn?fbclid=IwAR32wpBjsbAsI5HlKR43KEBpuW2YvT4seLhNSnI4usEh03SSS9q6bALsVqQ

    Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Hits Back At Sean Hannity With A Radically Honest Correction

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c34273ce4b0116c11ef3d62/amp?fbclid=IwAR2v_kvKxiyWO_uLg3j-7oDedfm-MocOvPazI9-BRozoGX7Qi-WXs6ASOn8

    Manafort Shared Trump Campaign Data With Russian Tied to Intelligence Services, Prosecutors Say

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/politics/manafort-trump-campaign-data-kilimnik.html

    image

    Sears strikes last-minute deal to try and avoid shutting down

    https://pix11.com/2019/01/08/sears-strikes-last-minute-deal-to-avoid-shutting-down/?fbclid=IwAR0zJgKf8OPZ6OTz2zx9aeKapv7G2msRzSrpgkEAVzfRMy9CVZrqRUAzJ4g

    bleusteel
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,855
    edited January 2019
    Early indications seem to be that Trump will NOT declare the emergency. The plan seems to have been to ramp up the speculation about a nearly unprecedented power-grab to lure in viewers. This is exactly why the networks should have said no. But just for the record, guess who else was given prime-time coverage in 2006 on the subject of immigration. That's right, George W. Bush. For the record, that is 2 Republican Presidents capitulated to on the issue, and one Democratic President flatly denied. Maybe it's time liberals start relentlessly attacking the media. Because it sure seems to get the job done. They simply aren't up for the current challenge.

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,833
    I've been thinking about a possible law requiring companies to provide a valid Social Security number for every unit of labor they use. It would be much more difficult to hire illegal immigrants if you needed to provide an ID number for every employee, whether temporary or permanent. If you had some work done via a contracting agency or another third party, then that third party would be required to provide those SSN's. Then, the only way you could get away with hiring illegal immigrants would be to hide the transactions and keep no records of them, which has two disadvantages: (1) the missing transactions would leave holes in your documentation and monetary flows, which would provide a clue to authorities about the illegal activity, and (2) keeping that money off the books would give your employees an opportunity to skim some of that money off the top with less risk of being caught.

    The primary problem with illegal immigration is that it gives employers a lower-cost alternative to American labor, increasing unemployment and depressing wages. Ostensibly, you could decrease the incentive for illegal immigration by making it harder for companies to hire illegal immigrants. Finding the immigrants would be extremely difficult without breaking certain constitutional rules (no racial profiling; no illegal search or surveillance without a warrant), but you could crack down on it much more easily by targeting the companies that rely on illegal labor. After all, if you're looking for ants, do you search for individual ants hiding in the grass, or do you search for an ant mound, where they converge?

    What do you guys think?

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    I've been thinking about a possible law requiring companies to provide a valid Social Security number for every unit of labor they use. It would be much more difficult to hire illegal immigrants if you needed to provide an ID number for every employee, whether temporary or permanent. If you had some work done via a contracting agency or another third party, then that third party would be required to provide those SSN's. Then, the only way you could get away with hiring illegal immigrants would be to hide the transactions and keep no records of them, which has two disadvantages: (1) the missing transactions would leave holes in your documentation and monetary flows, which would provide a clue to authorities about the illegal activity, and (2) keeping that money off the books would give your employees an opportunity to skim some of that money off the top with less risk of being caught.

    The primary problem with illegal immigration is that it gives employers a lower-cost alternative to American labor, increasing unemployment and depressing wages. Ostensibly, you could decrease the incentive for illegal immigration by making it harder for companies to hire illegal immigrants. Finding the immigrants would be extremely difficult without breaking certain constitutional rules (no racial profiling; no illegal search or surveillance without a warrant), but you could crack down on it much more easily by targeting the companies that rely on illegal labor. After all, if you're looking for ants, do you search for individual ants hiding in the grass, or do you search for an ant mound, where they converge?

    What do you guys think?

    Just by reading the Trump hotel illegal immigration hiring, it seems a lot of illegal immigrants use forged documentation to get hired. Some employees are aware of this and turn a blind eye, while others may not be aware of the documentation being faked.

    Even the Trump hotel story had a sympathetic HR person asking for other names, IMO, not to protect Trump, but to protect their jobs. It takes time and resources to train employees, and losing a chunk all at once would put a strain on service in that hotel.

    I also think this is an invasion of privacy. I do not need another government agency knowing exactly where I work, especially one that may have racial undertones to it. Anyone who has a last name ending in "ez" would be scrutinized more than English surnames. You'd also have to wonder how effective such a list would be with over 150,000,000 jobs in the United States.

    With about 500,000 jobs just in the manufacturing sector not being filled, one has to wonder how big an issue illegal immigrants taking jobs really is. Besides the way the actual workers are treated, the negatives are very moot IMO.

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