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  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited August 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Democratic candidates are all talk and change nothing. They're just as complicit as the Republicans. They just hide behind their pseudo-convictions and hope nobody figures out that this is a two-shell shellgame and there's nothing under either of them for us regular schmucks...

    Does anybody really believe Yang would ever be able to 'give' everybody $1000/month? If he does, I'm going ro make sure he puts the bills on rollers for me so I can at least wipe my ass with them...

    Not quite at least according these numbers from the Senate
    Republicans are 86% corrupt while Democratic Senators are "only" 35% corrupt.
    20190727_WOC449.png

    So no there's a big difference there and not a "both sides" thing. Sure Dems could use improvement, but they are NOT equal to Republicans as far as being sellouts to their donors over their constituents.

    Does anybody really believe Yang would ever be able to 'give' everybody $1000/month? I believe he could make it happen if more people voted for Democrats and quit voting against their own interests.

    semiticgoddessThacoBellGrond0
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    The $1000 a month won’t fly. It would inflate prices drastically.
    Balrog99
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    1980, election of Reagan, supply-side economics, the total destruction of unions, and the start of the decline of manufacturing. The top marginal tax rate in 1960 where those lines converge was 91%, which if proposed today would be compared to Trotsky and Lenin taking power.

    16 years of Democratic presidents didn't seem to put much of a dent in anything though. Just saying...

    It wasn't 16 years of Democratic presidents. We had a Democratic president strengthen the economy, then we had a Republican one break it again. This pattern has been repeating. So we've had anywhere from 4-8 years of a Democratic President at any given time, where that time has been spent fixing what the Republicans broke.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    1980, election of Reagan, supply-side economics, the total destruction of unions, and the start of the decline of manufacturing. The top marginal tax rate in 1960 where those lines converge was 91%, which if proposed today would be compared to Trotsky and Lenin taking power.

    16 years of Democratic presidents didn't seem to put much of a dent in anything though. Just saying...

    It wasn't 16 years of Democratic presidents. We had a Democratic president strengthen the economy, then we had a Republican one break it again. This pattern has been repeating. So we've had anywhere from 4-8 years of a Democratic President at any given time, where that time has been spent fixing what the Republicans broke.

    illustrated..
    ThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2019
    Well, the argument for the last 15 years has basically been this:

    1.) The Iraq War didn't count

    2.) Revenue lost from tax cuts also doesn't count

    3.) The only spending that is "wasteful" is stuff that is ostensibly meant to help someone of a lower-income level (housing subsidies, health care subsidies, food stamps, etc). Anything involved with the military does not count. Anything that involves corporate welfare doesn't count. Anything that goes to the "right" people (farmers hurt by the Chinese tariffs) does not count.

    When it comes to spending, because of this narrative, we are, once again, playing a rigged game. Anything Democrats propose is considered wasteful, and Republicans can spend like drunken sailors and then blame the entire thing on Democrats when they leave office, rinse and repeat every 8 years until the sun goes red giant. The opposite of the accepted narrative is true. Democrats are actually far MORE fiscally responsible, and they have the added benefit of not disingenuously railing about the deficit and then hitting an off-switch the exact MOMENT the White House changes hands. I wouldn't just bet my possessions that Republicans will go back to this tactic if someone like Sanders or Warren gets into office, I would bet my LIFE on it.
    ThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited August 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Well, the argument for the last 15 years has basically been this:

    1.) The Iraq War didn't count

    2.) Revenue lost from tax cuts also doesn't count

    3.) The only spending that is "wasteful" is stuff that is ostensibly meant to help someone of a lower-income level (housing subsidies, health care subsidies, food stamps, etc). Anything involved with the military does not count. Anything that involves corporate welfare doesn't count. Anything that goes to the "right" people (farmers hurt by the Chinese tariffs) does not count.

    When it comes to spending, because of this narrative, we are, once again, playing a rigged game. Anything Democrats propose is considered wasteful, and Republicans can spend like drunken sailors and then blame the entire thing on Democrats when they leave office, rinse and repeat every 8 years until the sun goes red giant. The opposite of the accepted narrative is true. Democrats are actually far MORE fiscally responsible, and they have the added benefit of not disingenuously railing about the deficit and then hitting an off-switch the exact MOMENT the White House changes hands. I wouldn't just bet my possessions that Republicans will go back to this tactic if someone like Sanders or Warren gets into office, I would bet my LIFE on it.

    Nope, if the sun goes red-giant, it's the Democrats' fault...
    BallpointMan
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    1980, election of Reagan, supply-side economics, the total destruction of unions, and the start of the decline of manufacturing. The top marginal tax rate in 1960 where those lines converge was 91%, which if proposed today would be compared to Trotsky and Lenin taking power.

    16 years of Democratic presidents didn't seem to put much of a dent in anything though. Just saying...

    It wasn't 16 years of Democratic presidents. We had a Democratic president strengthen the economy, then we had a Republican one break it again. This pattern has been repeating. So we've had anywhere from 4-8 years of a Democratic President at any given time, where that time has been spent fixing what the Republicans broke.

    Where's the evidence that those Democratic presidents changed anything. Sorry, show me on the charts or it didn't happen...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Big story on CNN. Half the Democrats now favor impeachment proceedings. Whoopdie f'ing doo. What's that, about 1/3rd of the House and less than 1/3rd of the Senate? How is this even news...???
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    Here's an update on a story about arctic wildfires I've been following for a little while. There's nothing unusual in principle about fires during the arctic summer, but this year the scale is far larger than expected. That is certainly at least in part due to the fact that the temperature rise in the arctic has been considerably greater than in most areas of the earth (the result of feedback mechanisms - as more snow and ice melts the darker earth underneath that absorbs more sunlight). As land has become warmer and drier, fires have increased in size and duration.

    The area worst affected has been Russia. The relevant areas of Siberia have little population, but the impact from drifting smoke and smog has been widespread in the country (and noticeable even in Alaska and Canada). As a result Putin announced a few days ago that the army would start to tackle the fires - previously they had been simply allowed to burn on the grounds that was the cheapest policy.
    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Interesting article about taxes. It's from a liberal/intellectual point of view and actually quite insightful. Food for thought anyway...

    https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2019/07/30/taxes-wealthy-2020-election-000938
    smeagolheartsemiticgoddessGrond0bleusteel
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited August 2019
    Grond0 wrote: »
    The area worst affected has been Russia. The relevant areas of Siberia have little population, but the impact from drifting smoke and smog has been widespread in the country (and noticeable even in Alaska and Canada). As a result Putin announced a few days ago that the army would start to tackle the fires - previously they had been simply allowed to burn on the grounds that was the cheapest policy.
    The rumor is that increase in Siberian wildfires is due to illegal woodcutting businesses covering their tracks. Not sure how trustworthy the source was, but allegedly they've already found evidence some fires were started purposefully.

    Still, 300 000 km2... There won't be any taiga left at this rate in twenty years.
    Grond0
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The major takeaway from @Balrog99's linked article appears to be that you can pay for almost all of the major Democratic party proposals (not counting Yang's UBI plan) only if you increase taxes on the top 20% of the population instead of just the top 1%--you don't need to bump up taxes on the poor and middle class necessarily, but you can't rely entirely on the 1% to fund these new programs.
    Balrog99
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523
    edited August 2019
    semiticgod wrote: »
    The major takeaway from @Balrog99's linked article appears to be that you can pay for almost all of the major Democratic party proposals (not counting Yang's UBI plan) only if you increase taxes on the top 20% of the population instead of just the top 1%--you don't need to bump up taxes on the poor and middle class necessarily, but you can't rely entirely on the 1% to fund these new programs.

    A quick google found this calculator that says the top 20% are households making $79,000 or more annually.

    https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

    I believe “middle class” extends into six-figure territory so this would qualify as an upper-middle class tax hike.

    Edit: oops! Looked at the individual calculator instead of household:

    https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

    Top 20% of households make $127,000 or more. I believe that is above above the boundary of what is typically considered middle class. Lower-upper class, I guess?
    Grond0semiticgoddess
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Interesting article about taxes. It's from a liberal/intellectual point of view and actually quite insightful. Food for thought anyway...

    https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2019/07/30/taxes-wealthy-2020-election-000938

    I haven't seen the detailed figures backing up these statistics, but I suspect the comparison may well be between tax paid and taxable income. If so, that ignores the fact that some income is not taxable and that some increases in wealth are not counted as income at all. That's part of the reason why wealth is becoming more concentrated over time, even though income tax appears to be progressive.
    smeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2019
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.
    smeagolheart
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Let's see who jumps on the 'thoughts and prayers' bus first.
    jjstraka34
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Assault rifles needs to be fully automatic with fire selection in order to be considered assault rifles. This are sporting rifles(semi auto), fully automatic weapons are already illegal not only on US but in most countries and guess what. Gangsters can easily mod an semi auto rifle into an fully auto one.

    And again, why in 1900s, USA had no mass shootings?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    If this manifesto is legitimate, let's just say no one who has been paying attention is going to be surprised about what inspired this shooting.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,567
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Assault rifles needs to be fully automatic with fire selection in order to be considered assault rifles. This are sporting rifles(semi auto), fully automatic weapons are already illegal not only on US but in most countries and guess what. Gangsters can easily mod an semi auto rifle into an fully auto one.

    And again, why in 1900s, USA had no mass shootings?

    For the same reason it had very few automobile fatalities.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    1980, election of Reagan, supply-side economics, the total destruction of unions, and the start of the decline of manufacturing. The top marginal tax rate in 1960 where those lines converge was 91%, which if proposed today would be compared to Trotsky and Lenin taking power.

    16 years of Democratic presidents didn't seem to put much of a dent in anything though. Just saying...

    It wasn't 16 years of Democratic presidents. We had a Democratic president strengthen the economy, then we had a Republican one break it again. This pattern has been repeating. So we've had anywhere from 4-8 years of a Democratic President at any given time, where that time has been spent fixing what the Republicans broke.

    Where's the evidence that those Democratic presidents changed anything. Sorry, show me on the charts or it didn't happen...

    Its plastered all over this entire thread. If you ignored the dozens that were posted before, what would be the point of trotting them out AGAIN? Would this time be the one that sinks in?
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited August 2019
    DinoDin wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Assault rifles needs to be fully automatic with fire selection in order to be considered assault rifles. This are sporting rifles(semi auto), fully automatic weapons are already illegal not only on US but in most countries and guess what. Gangsters can easily mod an semi auto rifle into an fully auto one.

    And again, why in 1900s, USA had no mass shootings?

    For the same reason it had very few automobile fatalities.

    Some people will blame the guns(and often assume that an ban who never worked will work), some blame the demographics changes on US, some blame the culture changes, some blame the capitalism<...> But the real question is. Why US is producing so many mass murderers? And why the society is failing in identify the mass murderers and putting then in an place where they offer no risk?

    And why :

    Norway's mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik gets hundreds of love letters a year
    https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/norways-mass-murderer-anders-behring-breivik-gets-hundreds-of-love-letters-a-year

    Even Varg Vikerness says that this extremists only give more ammo for the government to censor and punishes innocent people. And he is right. Right wing extremism only changes the Overton window to the left. Gun massacres only gives more ammo to the government regulate more firearms
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    edited August 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Assault rifles needs to be fully automatic with fire selection in order to be considered assault rifles. This are sporting rifles(semi auto), fully automatic weapons are already illegal not only on US but in most countries and guess what. Gangsters can easily mod an semi auto rifle into an fully auto one.

    And again, why in 1900s, USA had no mass shootings?

    There were plenty of mass shootings in the 1900s.

    One of my aunts was actually a student on the UT Austin campus during Whitman's 1966 mass shooting.

    A guy who was upset that "he didn't get to kill Germans" took up a machine gun nest at a POW camp and shot several dozen German prisoners of war in Utah. That was in 1945, between the surrender of Germany and Japan.

    Luby's was in 1991 and it took 16 years for that one to be surpassed.

    Columbine was in 1999. That was between my sophomore and junior/senior year in high school, so believe me, it did a number on the nation's psyche as I recall.

    Those are off the top of my head. Shall I go on?

    Oh I will. Because it always just gets juicier. How about the 1929 St. Valentine's Day Massacre, so famous in our gang mythology.

    What about Kansas City in 1933, where 4 law enforcement officers died, an act that ultimately led to FBI agents being allowed to carry guns and have arrest power? Before that, they didn't.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:20th-century_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

    Look at that, at least one in every decade since 1920. Believe me, these are not new. What is new is the rate of incidence.
    Grond0ThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2019
    I mean, if this manifesto is legitimate (and it certainly seems to be at this point) this is basically right-wing Youtube's id come to llife as a rampaging avenger. He even takes the time to say Trump's rhetoric shouldn't be blamed not because it didn't have any effect, but because he didn't want his obvious alignment with the right-wing online culture to be used to tar the leader of the cause. Yeah, sure buddy. Everything about this guy shows he could be one of millions of young males marinating in this toxicity 24/7/365. He even throws in the obligatory "the Democrat Party" for good measure. It's almost as if there have been people sounding the alarm about this fascist online culture, Trump, and guns as an inevitable keg about to explode for two goddamn years.

    In the swamps this shooter wallowed in, they are already simultaneously claiming it is a false flag engineered by liberals AND praising him for taking the action, which goes to show you how disingenuous and nihilistic the entire thing is at it's core. And of course, this guy is taken in without a scratch on him, while people like Eric Garner and Sandra Bland end up dead because of routine sidewalk and traffic violations with cops. America in a nutshell. Keep ignoring this conflagration as the body-count goes up, exclusively on one side. At this point, you should be 100x more worried about any random racist commentator on Youtube than you should a potential Muslim terrorist. In before the media starts plastering headlines with stories about his innocent youth and how he is a lone-wolf who isn't tied to any greater movement. This is now happening on a regular basis PRECISELY because of these beliefs. And there is a body count in the dozens to back up that statement. There seems to be indication he went to a Wal-Mart in El Paso because he was TARGETING those of Latino descent. This isn't a joke anymore, it's not trolls innocently yucking it up, it's not a meme, it's blood and guts on a department store floor.

    Of course, in this culture, you can't rule out the possibility this manifesto has also been deliberately planted to sow even more confusion about the situation, because that's just how sick it has gotten. While law enforcement are currently investigating it, they have not confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt at this time and are attempting to verify it's validity. But we do know SOMEONE posted it today for reasons that are clearly tied to the shooting, either before or after. Just like last time this happened (because there was a last time), this blog has a excellent breakdown. It's hard to even fathom just how grotesque the culture on 8chan is until you see some of the colloquial language used there broken down by someone who recognizes what is being intimated. I mean seriously folks, read this:

    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    Grond0ThacoBell
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Quickblade wrote: »
    [
    Look at that, at least one in every decade since 1920. Believe me, these are not new. What is new is the rate of incidence.

    I made my point wrong. My point is that why the number of mass murders are growing so much? Why from zero to one per decade, to one per year to almost monthly? This is an problem that needs to be solved. Mass murderers with legal or illegal firearms, with trucks, with gasoline, with an knife, with everything are a seriously problem. Take out the legal gun and forces then to purchase an illegal firearm or start to mass roadkill or an arson attack.

    33 people died on Kyoto animation Arson attack in Japan, an place where even illegal firearms are hard to obtain.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited August 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I mean, if this manifesto is legitimate (and it certainly seems to be at this point) this is basically right-wing Youtube's id come to llife as a rampaging avenger. He even takes the time to say Trump's rhetoric shouldn't be blamed not because it didn't have any effect, but because he didn't want his obvious alignment with the right-wing online culture to be used to tar the leader of the cause. Yeah, sure buddy. Everything about this guy shows he could be one of millions of young males marinating in this toxicity 24/7/365. He even throws in the obligatory "the Democrat Party" for good measure. It's almost as if there have been people sounding the alarm about this fascist online culture, Trump, and guns as an inevitable keg about to explode for two goddamn years.

    In the swamps this shooter wallowed in, they are already simultaneously claiming it is a false flag engineered by liberals AND praising him for taking the action, which goes to show you how disingenuous and nihilistic the entire thing is at it's core. And of course, this guy is taken in without a scratch on him, while people like Eric Garner and Sandra Bland end up dead because of routine sidewalk and traffic violations with cops. America in a nutshell. Keep ignoring this conflagration as the body-count goes up, exclusively on one side. At this point, you should be 100x more worried about any random racist commentator on Youtube than you should a potential Muslim terrorist. In before the media starts plastering headlines with stories about his innocent youth and how he is a lone-wolf who isn't tied to any greater movement. This is now happening on a regular basis PRECISELY because of these beliefs. And there is a body count in the dozens to back up that statement. There seems to be indication he went to a Wal-Mart in El Paso because he was TARGETING those of Latino descent. This isn't a joke anymore, it's not trolls innocently yucking it up, it's not a meme, it's blood and guts on a department store floor.

    Of course, in this culture, you can't rule out the possibility this manifesto has also been deliberately planted to sow even more confusion about the situation, because that's just how sick it has gotten. While law enforcement are currently investigating it, they have not confirmed it beyond a shadow of a doubt at this time and are attempting to verify it's validity. But we do know SOMEONE posted it today for reasons that are clearly tied to the shooting, either before or after. Just like last time this happened (because there was a last time), this blog has a excellent breakdown. It's hard to even fathom just how grotesque the culture on 8chan is until you see some of the colloquial language used there broken down by someone who recognizes what is being intimated. I mean seriously folks, read this:

    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-paso-shooting-and-the-gamification-of-terror/

    Right wing radicalization is the biggest problem facing us.

    The fact that the President won't do anything about this makes it more dangerous.

    He is inciting this problem and defunding agencies that would address right wing radicalization. And his rallies incite violence based on fear mongering and lies and he builds up his political enemies to monsters in his followers minds. And these people keep lashing out.

    He's knows the truth, yet he's directing the government to lie and not address the real problem.

    And Fox News and the President keep inciting violence while maintaining that "gee I never told them to murder anyone when I said that someone should take care of them"

    Trump admin does not renew program to fight domestic terror
    The Trump administration had already canceled a grant for a group that fights white supremacist terror.

    Oct. 31, 2018
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-admin-will-apparently-not-renew-program-fight-domestic-terror-n926361

    We need to elect a Democrat to get tough on crime. The real crime. Not the fake crime. This wasn't an illegal immigrant. It never is an immigrant.

    Elizabeth Warren is right these right wingers are domestic terrorists.
    ThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2019
    Should Antifa be punching people in the streets?? Of course they shouldn't. Get back to me when one of them mows down two dozen people in a sporting goods store in Omaha and then we can start having a conversation about how they are the "same". Until then, it's nothing but inane deflection. Every 3 or 4 months we are seeing a mass shooter specifically target a group of people using rhetoric and reasoning that is almost indistinguishable from the President of the United States. If you believe the bully pulpit has any power whatsoever, pretending these things aren't in some way related is just lunacy. Add to that a party that is so beholden to the gun lobby that they have the balls of every Republican lawmaker in the country in glass jars at NRA headquarters, and you have this. You can start the countdown clock on the next one immediately. It isn't going to stop. This country is already functionally paralyzed in regards to what to do about gun violence and mass shootings. Then you add Trump's ENDLESS demagoguery as the cherry on top of the sundae. The shooter himself, as I mentioned, appears to have tried to preemptively get Trump off the hook (I'd argue strategically as far as these things go). Mass murdering shitbags don't get to make that call. I just saw a news update that he told investigators his goal was to shoot "as many Mexicans as possible". Get a clue people. This isn't rocket science:


    And that is what you have to realize from point A in dealing with this Alt-right movement online. The entire modus operandi is to be disingenuous on purpose. It's the strategy. Everything is thinly masked as something it isn't, every statement and claim meant to provoke a reaction that they can then use to reinforce their own view and bunker mentality. The entire movement knows inside exactly how full of shit they are, which is why 99% of it is contained to anonymity of online messaging. They are well aware of how such talk would be dealt with in polite company in the real world. But all it takes is 1 or 2 or 3 guys to splinter out and take the action the rest of them are either secretly hoping for, or actively encouraging by proxy. A cursory understanding of how this crowd operates reveals the obvious conclusion that if he took the time to "exonerate" Trump in his letter, it is because Trump played very much into his thought process.

    It's one thing for someone like John Hinckley to attempt to assassinate Ronald Reagan to impress Jodie Foster. In that situation, Jodie Foster didn't do or say anything except play a role in "Taxi Driver". Even if you want to make the case that the softball game shooter was a Bernie Sanders supporter (which he was), you would be hard pressed to find any comment or statement Bernie Sanders made that could be viewed as having set that guy off. Trump, on the other hand, talks like this guy talks CONSTANTLY. There are portions of that manifesto that could be lifted verbatim from one of his rallies. This is the inevitable result of Trump's immigration rhetoric. We've been telling you it was going to happen, it has happened, and those on the left will still be treated like we are the ones growing antlers out of our head and talking nonsense. There was nothing "alarmist" about those takes. They were made as a result of knowing what this kind of rhetoric has led to historically. He has created this climate for political gain. He's done it on purpose with no regrets. And this is what you'll have to live with if you don't see a problem with it. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the next thing we see is a legitimate attempt on the life of AOC or Ilhan Omar. Trump is inciting domestic terrorism, and the only question is if he just doesn't care or is doing it on purpose, the answer to which is basically immaterial to the reality of the situation.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    semiticgoddessBallpointManThacoBell
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,567
    DinoDin wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Assault rifles needs to be fully automatic with fire selection in order to be considered assault rifles. This are sporting rifles(semi auto), fully automatic weapons are already illegal not only on US but in most countries and guess what. Gangsters can easily mod an semi auto rifle into an fully auto one.

    And again, why in 1900s, USA had no mass shootings?

    For the same reason it had very few automobile fatalities.

    Some people will blame the guns(and often assume that an ban who never worked will work), some blame the demographics changes on US, some blame the culture changes, some blame the capitalism<...> But the real question is. Why US is producing so many mass murderers? And why the society is failing in identify the mass murderers and putting then in an place where they offer no risk?

    And why :

    Norway's mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik gets hundreds of love letters a year
    https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/norways-mass-murderer-anders-behring-breivik-gets-hundreds-of-love-letters-a-year

    Even Varg Vikerness says that this extremists only give more ammo for the government to censor and punishes innocent people. And he is right. Right wing extremism only changes the Overton window to the left. Gun massacres only gives more ammo to the government regulate more firearms

    The idea that racist violence is something that requires some alternate explanation is well... it's a theory that somebody might come up with if they haven't read any history.
    ThacoBell
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    Quickblade wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Assault rifles needs to be fully automatic with fire selection in order to be considered assault rifles. This are sporting rifles(semi auto), fully automatic weapons are already illegal not only on US but in most countries and guess what. Gangsters can easily mod an semi auto rifle into an fully auto one.

    And again, why in 1900s, USA had no mass shootings?

    There were plenty of mass shootings in the 1900s.

    One of my aunts was actually a student on the UT Austin campus during Whitman's 1966 mass shooting.

    A guy who was upset that "he didn't get to kill Germans" took up a machine gun nest at a POW camp and shot several dozen German prisoners of war in Utah. That was in 1945, between the surrender of Germany and Japan.

    Luby's was in 1991 and it took 16 years for that one to be surpassed.

    Columbine was in 1999. That was between my sophomore and junior/senior year in high school, so believe me, it did a number on the nation's psyche as I recall.

    Those are off the top of my head. Shall I go on?

    Oh I will. Because it always just gets juicier. How about the 1929 St. Valentine's Day Massacre, so famous in our gang mythology.

    What about Kansas City in 1933, where 4 law enforcement officers died, an act that ultimately led to FBI agents being allowed to carry guns and have arrest power? Before that, they didn't.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:20th-century_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

    Look at that, at least one in every decade since 1920. Believe me, these are not new. What is new is the rate of incidence.

    And look at that... Even on Wikipedia, the Rosewood massacre, the Tulsa massacre, the East St. Louis massacre... None of them are on that list. Gee, I wonder why.
    ThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited August 2019
    BillyYank wrote: »
    Quickblade wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Mass shooting at a Wal-Mart in Texas. Has it even been 48 hours since the last one?? Is it even worth mentioning anymore?? 18 adults and 4 children. So now we've had movie theaters, concerts, elementary classrooms and now a frickin' Wal-Mart?? You know what, screw this shit. Ban assault rifles now. Remove them from all stores, and cease all production of them for public purchase immediately. They serve no purpose other than mowing down random human beings in acts of young, male rage. Continuing to allow them to be part of our culture of commerce at this point is like allowing people to purchase pipe bombs.

    Assault rifles needs to be fully automatic with fire selection in order to be considered assault rifles. This are sporting rifles(semi auto), fully automatic weapons are already illegal not only on US but in most countries and guess what. Gangsters can easily mod an semi auto rifle into an fully auto one.

    And again, why in 1900s, USA had no mass shootings?

    There were plenty of mass shootings in the 1900s.

    One of my aunts was actually a student on the UT Austin campus during Whitman's 1966 mass shooting.

    A guy who was upset that "he didn't get to kill Germans" took up a machine gun nest at a POW camp and shot several dozen German prisoners of war in Utah. That was in 1945, between the surrender of Germany and Japan.

    Luby's was in 1991 and it took 16 years for that one to be surpassed.

    Columbine was in 1999. That was between my sophomore and junior/senior year in high school, so believe me, it did a number on the nation's psyche as I recall.

    Those are off the top of my head. Shall I go on?

    Oh I will. Because it always just gets juicier. How about the 1929 St. Valentine's Day Massacre, so famous in our gang mythology.

    What about Kansas City in 1933, where 4 law enforcement officers died, an act that ultimately led to FBI agents being allowed to carry guns and have arrest power? Before that, they didn't.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:20th-century_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

    Look at that, at least one in every decade since 1920. Believe me, these are not new. What is new is the rate of incidence.

    And look at that... Even on Wikipedia, the Rosewood massacre, the Tulsa massacre, the East St. Louis massacre... None of them are on that list. Gee, I wonder why.

    I mean, those were just straight-up destruction of entire black communities on par or worse than Kristallnacht. They have essentially been ERASED from American history, by design and necessity, because they drive a stake through the heart of most of the right-wing arguments about race in this country. In these cases, the African-American communities did EXACTLY what conservatives have always demanded they do, which was build up successful neighborhoods. And what happened when they did so?? The white populations came in an burned them to the ground and engage in mass murder. There wasn't so much as a mention of any of these incidents in my American history class in high school. Not a single word. Trying to divorce these events from even problems we still face TODAY is just hogwash. Even the residents who escaped these acts fled soon afterwards because they wanted to keep drawing breath. Slavery is just the tip of the iceberg.
    ThacoBell
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited August 2019


    He and the has never condemned white supremacy. They are, in effect, the President’s base. And sadly, he and the entire GOP seem to want it that way.

    Also notable that this happened in one of the most gun friendly states with open carry. Seems like the good gun with a gun thing is a load of crap.

    6Lkonb2.png
    ThacoBellbleusteel
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