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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    Yeah, also never played Pathfinder but seems very similar to D&D 3rd edition / IWD2 system so had no problem at all understanding the rule mechanisms other than for weird classes like kineticist and alchemist which required some experimenting.

    I'm still fairly new to the game, only been playing around 3 months, but do not understand at all any of the complaints about the game being unfair or ridiculous difficulty spikes or anything like that. Actually seems really well balanced to me, my only peeve is with some of the random encounters you can get if you venture into Varnhold side of the map in Act 2 (which you have to do to get to Sorrowflow) and some of the killer ambushes you can get when resting. These can be far more difficult than even boss fights in the main game because you are caught with your pants down / unbuffed / flatfooted, which doesn't seem fair to me.

    Some of the classes do probably need rebalancing. Kineticists and arcane tricksters seem too good. Pet classes are in a different league to their non-pet counterparts (at least for solo) and even better/worse, you can play a different class for the first 4 levels, take pet class at level 5, take boon companion as your level 5 feat and you have a full-power pet that can already do wonders. 1 level dips into monk and vivisectionist also seem to give crazy benefit, should change monk AC from WIS to be like Sword Saint AC from INT at 1 per level rather than big bang. And maybe Mutagen should be 1 min per level rather than 10 mins.

    I've also noticed that weapons which give passive boosts give you that boost permanently as long as they're equipped, you don't actually need to wield them to get the benefit. That must surely be a bug? So you can equip 2 x Arcane Protector daggers in one of your weapon slots for +6 dodge AC and the mace from the troll king for permanent free action. That's a bit OTT I think.

    Melee classes (as seems so often the case in modern RPGs) need more love, they just don't get the gamechanging abilities that spellcasters/special power classes get. They need more class specific powers that for example give them AoE damage or special defences to compete. Still seems crazy that the best defence is to wear no armour, no shield, wield a one-handed weapon and dump STR to 7. Just scrap all DEX/other AC limits from wearing armour - it might be less realistic but it's badly needed for balance.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    deltago wrote: »
    Now if there were exclusive quests for certain classes (think strongholds in BG) then the game is getting away from the cosmetic and into choice actually mattering again.
    The game does indeed have certain kingdom quests which are catering to specific builds. Darker than Black (involving Abraxas, the demon lord of Forbidden Knowledge) being a case in point for arcane spellcasters. But generally speaking Owlcat Games has focused way more on the player's alignment than either class or race choices.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Until now I've found pets to be really useful in this game. My current party has two pets my druid's smilodon and the dog pet from the ranger npc. In some fights I can hold my entire party and allow the pets to smash the enemies :)
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    mlnevese wrote: »
    Until now I've found pets to be really useful in this game. My current party has two pets my druid's smilodon and the dog pet from the ranger npc. In some fights I can hold my entire party and allow the pets to smash the enemies :)

    Are they named Boo and Oops?
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Just finished a 25 floor run of the Endless Dungeon DLC and fought the Wicked Chanter which is fitting since my party was 6 bards. Or rather

    Thundercaller Bard
    Flame Dancer Bard
    Archaeologist/Cleric/Mystic Theurge
    Bard
    Urban Skald (Call of the Wild)
    Herald of the Horn Skald

    My regular bard did the most damage and was built to machine gun arrows out with their longbow.

    I did regular fights using RtwP and then tough fights I turned on the turn based mod. The whole run took like 10 hours with my party hitting 15 but I had lots of fun.

    I’ve wanted to do an all bard run in The Black Pits I & 2 for a while now but never got around to it but I should def do that sometime as well.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    I'm curious about something. How many people who are devoted fans of PKM have a previous background of playing Pathfinder?

    I never played pathfinder, but imported some pathfinder rules into an 3.5e D&D campaign. The reason is simple. Most people in my social circle don't speak English and Pathfinder books aren't available on my language.
    Some of the classes do probably need rebalancing. Kineticists and arcane tricksters seem too good. Pet classes are in a different league to their non-pet counterparts (at least for solo) and even better/worse, you can play a different class for the first 4 levels, take pet class at level 5, take boon companion as your level 5 feat and you have a full-power pet that can already do wonders. 1 level dips into monk and vivisectionist also seem to give crazy benefit, should change monk AC from WIS to be like Sword Saint AC from INT at 1 per level rather than big bang. And maybe Mutagen should be 1 min per level rather than 10 mins. .

    I partially disagree. Kineticists are not "too good", because they give far less options than other casters, no possibility to buff party members, no summons, all attacks require ranged touch attack or target the AC, in fact if you compare the Kineticist with an 3.5e Complete Arcane Warlock(not confuse with the bugged and nerfed warlock on nwn2), they aren't that good. No fly, no teleport, no save or become an toad spell, no "tentacles" that grapples the enemy and deals insane cold + bludgeoning damage, most "spells" require burn(can be used at will on 3.5 warlock) and not all elements are in the game > http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/kineticist-elements/#Negative_Blast

    About pet classes being better for solo, of course they are; and it makes perfectly sense. Just like 24 hours duration summons on IE games was better for soloing. Hunting with an dog, Weimaraner, an American Foxhound or an Dogo Argentino is far easier than hunt without the help of an animal.

    About arcane tricksters, is because they simplified/changed the rules for sneak attack.

    Monk bonus from int would make no sense. And mutagem, they are very "spell like", there are spells that can buff for short duration and make an bigger buff. Mutagens kinda lasts more to try become more unique.
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Monk bonus from int would make no sense. And mutagem, they are very "spell like", there are spells that can buff for short duration and make an bigger buff. Mutagens kinda lasts more to try become more unique.

    I don't think @Jaheiras_Witness meant intelligence bonus should replace wisdom when saying monk ac bonus should work like duelist/sword saint. I think they were saying it should be limited to how many levels you have in the class. From a balance perspective, that's probably true, but I'm pretty sure this is just a straight translation to PnP, and a lot of people would be up in arms if they did that.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Yes, you are right. Anyway, on RPG codex, this game won by a huge margin

    16643.png

    https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=11084
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited July 2019
    In RPG Codex are hardcore classic/tabletop fans, so this game is perfect for them. I mostly agree with the poll results.

    At least we have a game where rogue archtypes deal some damage: usually the rogues are the worst class of the lot in most rpg games.
    But yeah, the damage the arcane tricksters may require some nerfing.

    ED: Why in the hell they included fallout 76?. It is a MMORPG game that even forfeit npcs o.O I played it for an entire weekend and was a total waste of time for me. I found more lore in can tags.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    I'm curious about something. How many people who are devoted fans of PKM have a previous background of playing Pathfinder?

    I do have experience with Pathfinder pnp, but it is very limited. Played just one campaign, and liked it enough to download a bunch of the source books. But I have a LOT of D&D 3.5e experience.
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    ED: Why in the hell they included fallout 76?. It is a MMORPG game that even forfeit npcs o.O I played it for an entire weekend and was a total waste of time for me. I found more lore in can tags.

    I never played it, but I get the distinct feeling that Bethesda and Bioware don't want my money anymore.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    ED: Why in the hell they included fallout 76?. It is a MMORPG game that even forfeit npcs o.O I played it for an entire weekend and was a total waste of time for me. I found more lore in can tags.

    RPG codex put everything marketed as an RPG in the same category. IMO fallout 76, Diablo 3 and other similar games are not proper RPG's.

    But about then being "hardcore rpg fans", well, i disagree that "classic rpg's don't sell" that some people thinks and points out(not talking anyone in this thread specifically), PfK was in most sold category on steam for an long time, Path of Exile(an return to aRPG roots) was almost every time in the top 20 most played steam games ( https://steamcharts.com/top ) and even on Android, an ultra casual market, ports from PC's like Baldur's Gate and NWN:EE sold well and are on most sold games, at least in my country that doesn't have an strong RPG culture.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited July 2019
    Of course, western and eastern classic-style rpgs have plenty of players all over the world, the fact that battle royales, sports and shooters have the spotlight for AAA companies does not mean that there are demand of another type of games.

    Do any of you remember "Octopath traveler"? The stock was sold in a day. The restock in 3 hours. Square enix had to issue an apology because of it. They though that in 2018 a turn-based JRPG will not sell well, and....

    https://screenrant.com/octopath-traveler-sold-out-stock/
    https://gamerant.com/octopath-traveler-sold-out-amazon-sales/

    And before Octopath traveler, something similar happened with "Bravely Default".
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited July 2019
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Do any of you remember "Octopath traveler"? The stock was sold in a day. The restock in 3 hours. Square enix had to issue an apology because of it. They though that in 2018 a turn-based JRPG will not sell well, and....
    .

    Not only that. DOS2 outsold other modern cRPG's and is turn based. IMO PfK > PoE 2 > DOS2, but is just my opinion, is not an "majority opinion" and considering how popular the turn based mode for PoE2 and the player mod to make PfK turn based, i don't understand why so many people thinks that turn based "is a niche thing", in the RTwP vs Turn based, i an neutral. I see certain situations where turn based is superior and others, RTwP superior. Be able to chose both at will like M&M VI-VIII where i can use real time against weaklings and turn based against touch enemies would be the best IMO.

    My problem with turn based on FF VII for eg is that is an "line A vs line B" without many tactics on positioning and spell usage. Other problem is that i don't like to play with any jRPG protagonists that i saw in my life. I mean, with Anime, mainly outside of the shonen genre, they have all types of protagonists, from an Barbarian in rage like Guts(Berserk) to an Elder Lich(Overlord), on jRPG's, they usually forces you to play with an androgynous teenager with an oversized sword(why i can't use an Mace? Spear? Axe? Halberd? Crossbow? Why i need to use an sword? And why an sword needs to be massive, losing the portability of an sword and getting much less "penetration" than an axe of the same weight?) And why i can't be evil? Why i can't play as an adult? Or an old man?

    AAA devs tends to underestimate their costumers a lot. EA for eg was concerned that his FPS fans didn't know WW1 Even Happened. Yes, you are making an game targeting an shooter fanbase and thinks that low about your fanbase. Ironically BF outsold cod only when they made an ww1 game. source https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefield-1-ea-was-concerned-kids-didnt-know-ww1/1100-6440385/
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Do any of you remember "Octopath traveler"? The stock was sold in a day. The restock in 3 hours. Square enix had to issue an apology because of it. They though that in 2018 a turn-based JRPG will not sell well, and....
    .

    Not only that. DOS2 outsold other modern cRPG's and is turn based. IMO PfK > PoE 2 > DOS2, but is just my opinion, is not an "majority opinion" and considering how popular the turn based mode for PoE2 and the player mod to make PfK turn based, i don't understand why so many people thinks that turn based "is a niche thing", in the RTwP vs Turn based, i an neutral. I see certain situations where turn based is superior and others, RTwP superior. Be able to chose both at will like M&M VI-VIII where i can use real time against weaklings and turn based against touch enemies would be the best IMO.

    My problem with turn based on FF VII for eg is that is an "line A vs line B" without many tactics on positioning and spell usage. Other problem is that i don't like to play with any jRPG protagonists that i saw in my life. I mean, with Anime, mainly outside of the shonen genre, they have all types of protagonists, from an Barbarian in rage like Guts(Berserk) to an Elder Lich(Overlord), on jRPG's, they usually forces you to play with an androgynous teenager with an oversized sword(why i can't use an Mace? Spear? Axe? Halberd? Crossbow? Why i need to use an sword? And why an sword needs to be massive, losing the portability of an sword and getting much less "penetration" than an axe of the same weight?) And why i can't be evil? Why i can't play as an adult? Or an old man?

    AAA devs tends to underestimate their costumers a lot. EA for eg was concerned that his FPS fans didn't know WW1 Even Happened. Yes, you are making an game targeting an shooter fanbase and thinks that low about your fanbase. Ironically BF outsold cod only when they made an ww1 game. source https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefield-1-ea-was-concerned-kids-didnt-know-ww1/1100-6440385/

    My problem with the JRPGs is how much endless grinding you have to do. Truly the best JRPG experience is playing them in an emulator that you can run in fast forward mode, just to grind faster.

    Personally, I'd rate D:OS2 above PoE2, but definitely behind Kingmaker by a long shot. But I'd probably also rate Tyranny above D:OS2, but behind Kingmaker.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited July 2019
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    ED: Why in the hell they included fallout 76?. It is a MMORPG game that even forfeit npcs o.O I played it for an entire weekend and was a total waste of time for me. I found more lore in can tags.

    I never played it, but I get the distinct feeling that Bethesda and Bioware don't want my money anymore.

    Nope, they want the money of 12 year-old kids, apparently. Even CEO Andrew Wilson said that. (His/her parents´money to be precise, using underhanded tactics like pay-to-win, loot boxes, and microtransactions).

    And I do not even know what 12yo kids he refers to, because my niece watched 30 seconds of Anthem in Twitch and then went to watch "Lilo&Stitch" for the umpteenth time, after putting the same face when she has lice inspections at school. And her parents banned all battle royale games because his 14yo brother learned to say "son of a public woman who sells her body to people" in 4 different languages in one month of Fortnite battles. I am not precisely a prude but that is a word that would never be said by any kid in any language.
    Dragon age series was rated "M" anyway, so the target audience would never be teenagers unless it suffers major changes.




  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited July 2019
    <...>
    My problem with the JRPGs is how much endless grinding you have to do. Truly the best JRPG experience is playing them in an emulator that you can run in fast forward mode, just to grind faster.

    Personally, I'd rate D:OS2 above PoE2, but definitely behind Kingmaker by a long shot. But I'd probably also rate Tyranny above D:OS2, but behind Kingmaker.

    The "grinding" would't be an problem IF the combat is actually good aka not "menu based line A vs line B" without much strategy and depth. Diablo 1/2, Might & Magic VI-VIII, Icewind dale and other wRPG's are very action focused, you fight hordes and hordes of enemies and they are interesting to play. Mainly because the combat isn't clicking in menus and watching the same 5 minute animation combat move for the 5000th time and using the same """"tactics""" over and over again.

    About Tyranny, i would rank Tyranny above DOS2 due the story, but due "modern mechanics" aka cooldowns, never miss/deflect but everyone needs to be impaled 50 times in the head to die and other mechanics, i din't liked both games. Not saying that they are bad games, only that i like old school mechanics and thinks that they are more immersive an interesting. Pathfinder Kingmaker is old school on his mechanics.
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    <...> And her parents banned all battle royale games because his 14yo brother learned to say "son of a public woman who sells her body to people" in 4 different languages in one month of Fortnite battles. I am not precisely a prude but that is a word that would never be said by any kid in any language.
    Dragon age series was rated "M" anyway, so the target audience would never be teenagers unless it suffers major changes.

    Technically the woman only rents, she is not selling her body. But since you know more jRPG's, there are an JRPG where you play with an less "generi kun" protagonist? I mean, i hate most shonen anime protagonists, but other genres tends to have interesting protagonists.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited July 2019
    You can also add the lack of dialog with choices, Character Customization and an Open World where your actions matter; the silent protagonist,... The classic JRPG theme works well if you like the story and the characters of the game but if not...

    They make killer tactical games in Japan, though (Fire Emblem series, Valkyria Chronicles series, Tactics Ogre, Last remnant, Disgaea, etc).



    Technically the woman only rents, she is not selling her body. But since you know more jRPG's, there are an JRPG where you play with an less "generi kun" protagonist? I mean, i hate most shonen anime protagonists, but other genres tends to have interesting protagonists.

    o.O Ok, so we can safely rule out all Square Enix titles. :p

    As of late, there are several games with a female lead (Tales of Berseria, Bravely default, Kil la kill, Hiperdimension Neptunia, FFX 2 etc) but I do not think you want a jrpg with the female version of the androgynous teen with pointy hair and a sword so...

    Well, the main character of Utawarerumono is a middle-aged man, but he wears a fox mask almost all the time so...

    There are "JRPG" games you can create your character, you do not have a predetermined one, like Dragon Quest IX, God Eater, and Xenoblade chronicles...

    I suppose in the dungeon crawlers you create your own party so technically you can have the character you wish: The Etrian Odissey series, labyrinth of Refrain, etc







  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited July 2019
    PsicoVic, one "jRPG" that i liked is one very hated. Dirge of Cerberus. Vincent Valentine was an interesting protagonist. Unless you consider games such as Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma as "jrpgs"... But i will check this jrpgs that you mentioned.

    And no, i don't expect an character customization like pathfinder kingmaker, the best game in therms of character customization that ive played in my life, but thanks for the recommendation
  • avensisavensis Member Posts: 7
    edited August 2019
    Possessing Pathfinder Kingmaker since its release, I went through the really unpleasant stage of various bugs and bad adjustments that the game suffered. It has clearly improved since.
    It's been a long time since a game had made me so excited to come home to play it.

    _____________________________________________
    TweakBox word counter Tutuapp
    Post edited by avensis on
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Guys, i an visiting areas that i din't visited on my first run and i lost so much things and the game has so much better things like "teleportation circles"... Anyway, only i an having an hard time against. Well, in an long dungeon with 16 floors everything, including the Captor and Capitive was easy but how i an supposed to .... (spoilers from quest - Beneath the Stolen Lands) only click on spoilers if you don't care, already played or don't plan to play this quest.
    Kill the Spawn of Rovagug? I tried everything, even bombard him with an summon/undead army.

    fH03g9X.jpg

    DqSmapW.jpg

    And the best thing that i could do is make him injuried but after few turns, he got into barely injuried and uninjuried. This monster has an insane regeneration, saves and HP. Since i an at moment lv 17, i will try create an wizard mercenary, so i can use tier 9 spells against him. Tsunami is a good idea?
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited July 2019
    Alchemists´ holy and force bombs and touch spells are also good against it. It does have low touch ac so magus and kineticist knights work well. I read it is patched and now "phantasmal killer", "weird" "wail of the banshee" and some one-hit-kill spells do not work anymore but I do not check it personally.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited July 2019
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Alchemists´ holy and force bombs and touch spells are also good against it. It does have low touch ac so magus and kineticist knights work well. I read it is patched and now "phantasmal killer", "weird" "wail of the banshee" and some one-hit-kill spells do not work anymore but I do not check it personally.

    The problem is that he take control over my party members(or confuse, not sure). If i try use raw numbers against him, they die in one AOE, if i try use ultra powerful buffed animal companions and legendary proportions on Ekun and the Grenadiers, they simple start to fire into my own party... Looks like he can't control undead, since my sorcerer main character undead die quickly, i will try again after Pitax, when i will have money to purchase an lv 17~18 mercenary cleric who will bring an massive undead army, even if they deal no damage, i just use "deadly earth" from my magma kineticist and use the undead not to damage him, but to make him "frozen" in the area of effect that i wanna. I tried it with only one guy summoning undead, but ran out of undead minions faster than i could kill him...

    Sadly on PfK, Create Undead don't scale like on pnp and he can control or dispel normal summoned monsters.

    edit : i found an good solution "So long as you've claimed the region, do the research for preventing Charms/Compulsions in your kingdom. All the global buffs you can research are active in the Tenebrous Depths so long as you've claimed the region it's located in." https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/bztql9/spawn_of_rovagug/

    But some people say that even with it researched, the boss still take control over party members...
    Post edited by SorcererV1ct0r on
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Try Break Enchantment to get control of your guys back.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited August 2019
    Din't worked. He take the control over my party members. I will try with barbarians and an more melee party later. Anyway, i reached lv 18 recently as an sorcerer and picked summon monster IX, is Tsunamy and the Ice Prison mass worth to be my next spells?

    Undead bloodline(my char on spoiler)
    fEnoT1h.jpg

    I got almost 300k XP in one skill check. Not kidding or sure if is a bug or not

    yXjB5rS.jpg
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868

    I got almost 300k XP in one skill check. Not kidding or sure if is a bug or not

    yXjB5rS.jpg

    giphy.gif


  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    PsicoVic wrote: »

    I got almost 300k XP in one skill check. Not kidding or sure if is a bug or not

    yXjB5rS.jpg

    giphy.gif


    If you see the screenshot, i rolled 5. Only passed in a "persuasion" check with 40 DC. My charname have 30 CHA and feats to buff persuasion. In nutshell, i >
    (pitax spoilers)
    convinved the guard to join my side
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    edited August 2019
    Nope, natural 20 in XP roll, so you had 3000 experience XD (Sorry, it was a joke)
    And in a more serious note, it was a 40 DC check, it deserves high XP reward.

    https://www.runagame.net/2015/08/skill-dcs-by-level-for-pathfinder.html
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    There's like 1.3 million XP worth of persuasion skill checks in the tavern in Pitax. You can easily go up 2 levels if you've got xp sharing off.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited August 2019
    Figthing restartitis... it actually took time to hit. I'm doing Vordekai's Tomb and just wasn't prepared for it. Not enough restoration spells with me.

    I'm tempted to restart with an angel aasimar eldritch scion with the abyssal bloodline... maybe throw a level as a monk and or paladin to improve saves and ac...
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