Usually, the police (or the flaming fists) does not hunt you because they do not like you, they chase you because you did some pretty awful things ( or they framed you to kill some CEOs). If that was the case Brie Larson will be in Jail right now.
But yeah,@Chronicler I think you´re right: the merchants overcharged you because they simply do not like you.
The Justice System in The Forgotten Realms is pretty messed up. This is the same game where the paladin Philandryn seems to be allowed to hunt down anybody who scans positive on his detect evil spell with impunity. Also the same game where Flaming Fist soldiers will accost you south of bereghost, decide that you look like a bandit, and try to kill you with no real evidence.
The Flaming Fist probably does hunt people down on little more than "I hear he's a real scumbag" sometimes. Though if I recall when the flaming fist first accost you for low reputation they say something about how word of your crimes has reached them, so they seem to have something a bit more specific on their minds in that instance. Though they could be bluffing of course.
A messed up medievelesque justice system is kind of necessary for these kinds of fantasy adventures though. Otherwise even if all your killings were legally justified it would just be too much hassle to go around leaving such a trail of blood behind you. Can you imagine if every time you killed a xvart you needed to have a whole trial to make sure you did everything by the books?
A messed up medievelesque justice system is kind of necessary for these kinds of fantasy adventures though. Otherwise even if all your killings were legally justified it would just be too much hassle to go around leaving such a trail of blood behind you. Can you imagine if every time you killed a xvart you needed to have a whole trial to make sure you did everything by the books?
And even worse, you need to have lawyers too, which would be a kind of uber-evil OP prestige class, so devious and terrifying most characters would never be able to qualify, kinda "Pale masters written by Stephen king with a hangover" evil.
And if you have lawyers, we also need bureaucrats, public servants, and, gods forbid, the traffic department.
I think nobody wants to open that door. Let us stay with medieval frontier justice.
Just remember that if you start a fight in the Council of Six building in Athkatla, the halfling who is waiting endlessly in there to have some documents signed joins the fight to kill the clerks there. That guy is so relatable.
Viconia's (attempted) execution scene has always baffled me. There is not a single official agent of justice - soldier, magistrate, clerk etc - present, only a bunch of commoners and the fanatic conducting the execution. Who gave them the mandate to burn her alive on Government grounds? Is it like a public, free for all execution pyre that citizens can book for their private lynchings? Or if it's indeed an illegal lynching, don't you think they could've gone for a more clandestine place than the front yard of the Council of Six building?
I think the fanatics know that no one cares if you burn a drow in the front yard of the Council of six.
If you do some "terrible" stuff like try to sell illegal items and smuggling´ turnips, its another story. Or cast a spell without buying a proper license.
Athkatla in a nutshell.
At least they are civilized enough If you do that they only send guards or a squad of assassin cowled wizards against you. In my country you´ve got to pay fines and fill a mountain of documents properly stamped, with copies of your ID card, front photos without glasses, measured by a notary and recurred in four different public buildings. In triplicate. Or they make you -"shivers"- hire a lawyer to go to court. Evil, truly evil.
I am sure all drow are considered evil in the realms and the proceedings are not unheard of. There is only one exception to the rule as far as I know. There are city guards nearby from the prison who watch the spectacle as well, so probably they got the okay.
There is some bureaucracy/law that we get to experience, not limited to the quest for valygar, the cowled wizard magic fee, the nalia estate struggle, neb, and what happens in the bridge district. I just don't think that more explicit proceedings going through courtrooms etcetera would have worked in the game environment.
Traffic police, not really, but you do get a dose of, you cannot sleep here by local law enforcers.
@lroumen There's only one famous example anyway. The existence of Ellistraee (good dorw goddess of dance) would mean that there has to be enough good drow to sustain worship of her.
And as Drizzt shows us, not all the good drow are even worshipping Ellistraee. She's maintaining her divinity with only a fraction of them as a following.
@ThacoBell
Yes but that one famous example is the only exception. Nobody cares about the other drow in general. If you aren't Drizzt, most people just automatically assume you're evil.
Now if any other (civilized) humanoid species not from the Underdark were being burned at the stake in front of the City's Prison the government might not be so lenient.
You are confusing alignment of the goddess with the alignment of rhe followers. Those do not need to match (think of paladins and helm as another example).
Her followers are generally not of good alignment but of a large mix of all alignments. They are the drow that are outcast from drow society which is often through the destruction of a house or males that were punished by matrons.
@lroumen There's only one famous example anyway. The existence of Ellistraee (good dorw goddess of dance) would mean that there has to be enough good drow to sustain worship of her.
True, although it's worth pointing out that, unlike the human deities of the Forgotten Realms, the Elven pantheon is worshipped across multiple worlds (Lolth and Corellon Larethian are also worshipped in Greyhawk and I think also in Mystara, not to mention that they're the "default" elven deities for any custom worlds that don't have their own Elven pantheon) and so there are actually far more good drow in existence than just the ones in Faerun.
You are confusing alignment of the goddess with the alignment of rhe followers. Those do not need to match (think of paladins and helm as another example).
Her followers are generally not of good alignment but of a large mix of all alignments. They are the drow that are outcast from drow society which is often through the destruction of a house or males that were punished by matrons.
You can only be one degree of separation away from the alignment of the god you worship.
A mix of alignments for sure, but not a "Large Mix". Specifically they must be chaotic good, neutral good, or chaotic neutral.
@Chronicler
Depends on the god. Oghma for example is a Knowledge God. He has followers of every alignment. But in the case of this particular god, you are correct.
Most of them do worship Eilistraee, and she actively reaches for all drow, good or not (through visions, emotions, dreams, or practical help in their life). Keep in mind that she has at very least a few thousands of followers, and with WotC pushing their "less than 1% of drow are not evil" BS, the vast majority of good drow do feel her call. Especially because she even has orders of paladins and clerics who infiltrate Lolthite settlements to help drow who are unsatisfied or in a bad situation escape.
You are confusing alignment of the goddess with the alignment of rhe followers. Those do not need to match (think of paladins and helm as another example).
Her followers are generally not of good alignment but of a large mix of all alignments. They are the drow that are outcast from drow society which is often through the destruction of a house or males that were punished by matrons.
Most of Eilistraee's followers are CG, NG, or even LG. That's clearly spelled out in Demihuman Deities. Even those who come to her due to being rescued from calamities or hardships (most of them) learn emapthy and a different life. No Eilistraeen is evil; you don't follow a goddess that's about beauty, compassion and empathy if you merely want power. You may exploit hospitality and protection for a time, but if the lifestyle isn't for you, you'll look for something else, like Vhaeraun. Also, everyone seems to forget that followers of Eilistraee have their own society and communities. A lot of them were born on the surface, and have never had anything to do with Lolth's society.
@ThacoBell
Yes but that one famous example is the only exception. Nobody cares about the other drow in general. If you aren't Drizzt, most people just automatically assume you're evil.
Now if any other (civilized) humanoid species not from the Underdark were being burned at the stake in front of the City's Prison the government might not be so lenient.
Not completely true. There are many instances that saw followers of Eilistraee integrating within other societies, the most recent one being in Waterdeep in the 1490s.
Viconia's (attempted) execution scene has always baffled me. There is not a single official agent of justice - soldier, magistrate, clerk etc - present...
Actually, there's a guard present, on duty for the official prison. He's completely ignoring the whole thing.
That ... doesn't exactly make things better.
Wiki states anything but evil can follow Eilistraee.
Then the wiki needs revisioning. Demihuman Deities is very clear on this. Then again, perhaps the wiki editors saw that *most* Eilistraeens are good, but not all, so they might have made the assumption that all neutral alignments can also be Eilistraeens. Either way, evil's not included, and most are still good.
I really wasn't expecting this Drow argument to last this long. It seems it's time for a subject change.
Economy Logic: The only currency is Gold.
I know that for the sake of game mechanics it's just easier that way but in an actual economy gold is worth considerably more than silver or copper. Thus a Basic Room at an Inn costing a whole gold coin seems a bit far fetched.
Drow are boring anyway. I don't care about the discussion especially when I already made clear I was wrong.
I always dislike that the metal distribution in fantasy games puts gold in the top tier just like in most of our civilizations. I would love to see something we find common to be extremely rare for a change. Make golden weapons and iron coins or something. Eat with diamond cutlery and pay with gravel or mud.
Not a bg-logic thing, but a forum thing (And any forum of D&D): Discussions about the topic of alignments follows the First law of Newton.
The object in motion stays in motion endlessly with the same speed and in the same direction unless stopped by an unbalanced force, or a moderator.
@PsicoVic
Congratulations, you have successfully created Psiovic's First Law of Thread Derailment.
@lroumen
Well in actual D&D I believe the most valuable coinage is platinum but I would believe a room at an Inn would probably be a few silver at most (maybe a few gold for the Noble or Royal rooms but those aren't going to be offered at most Inns) and a good drink might be a few copper or a few silver for the really good stuff.
I'd feel like in a more Tabletop-Esque setting an Adventurer that throws 16 gold at an Innkeeper is going to stay in his best room with room and board for at least a week and probably still have enough to buy the entire party a round.
Comments
The Justice System in The Forgotten Realms is pretty messed up. This is the same game where the paladin Philandryn seems to be allowed to hunt down anybody who scans positive on his detect evil spell with impunity. Also the same game where Flaming Fist soldiers will accost you south of bereghost, decide that you look like a bandit, and try to kill you with no real evidence.
The Flaming Fist probably does hunt people down on little more than "I hear he's a real scumbag" sometimes. Though if I recall when the flaming fist first accost you for low reputation they say something about how word of your crimes has reached them, so they seem to have something a bit more specific on their minds in that instance. Though they could be bluffing of course.
A messed up medievelesque justice system is kind of necessary for these kinds of fantasy adventures though. Otherwise even if all your killings were legally justified it would just be too much hassle to go around leaving such a trail of blood behind you. Can you imagine if every time you killed a xvart you needed to have a whole trial to make sure you did everything by the books?
And therein lies the problem.
Viconia's (attempted) execution scene has always baffled me. There is not a single official agent of justice - soldier, magistrate, clerk etc - present, only a bunch of commoners and the fanatic conducting the execution. Who gave them the mandate to burn her alive on Government grounds? Is it like a public, free for all execution pyre that citizens can book for their private lynchings? Or if it's indeed an illegal lynching, don't you think they could've gone for a more clandestine place than the front yard of the Council of Six building?
If you do some "terrible" stuff like try to sell illegal items and smuggling´ turnips, its another story. Or cast a spell without buying a proper license.
Athkatla in a nutshell.
At least they are civilized enough If you do that they only send guards or a squad of assassin cowled wizards against you. In my country you´ve got to pay fines and fill a mountain of documents properly stamped, with copies of your ID card, front photos without glasses, measured by a notary and recurred in four different public buildings. In triplicate. Or they make you -"shivers"- hire a lawyer to go to court. Evil, truly evil.
There is some bureaucracy/law that we get to experience, not limited to the quest for valygar, the cowled wizard magic fee, the nalia estate struggle, neb, and what happens in the bridge district. I just don't think that more explicit proceedings going through courtrooms etcetera would have worked in the game environment.
Traffic police, not really, but you do get a dose of, you cannot sleep here by local law enforcers.
Yes but that one famous example is the only exception. Nobody cares about the other drow in general. If you aren't Drizzt, most people just automatically assume you're evil.
Now if any other (civilized) humanoid species not from the Underdark were being burned at the stake in front of the City's Prison the government might not be so lenient.
If only Lolth wasn't so power hungry trying to crush all of the Drow Pantheon. She's crazy.
Her followers are generally not of good alignment but of a large mix of all alignments. They are the drow that are outcast from drow society which is often through the destruction of a house or males that were punished by matrons.
True, although it's worth pointing out that, unlike the human deities of the Forgotten Realms, the Elven pantheon is worshipped across multiple worlds (Lolth and Corellon Larethian are also worshipped in Greyhawk and I think also in Mystara, not to mention that they're the "default" elven deities for any custom worlds that don't have their own Elven pantheon) and so there are actually far more good drow in existence than just the ones in Faerun.
You can only be one degree of separation away from the alignment of the god you worship.
A mix of alignments for sure, but not a "Large Mix". Specifically they must be chaotic good, neutral good, or chaotic neutral.
Depends on the god. Oghma for example is a Knowledge God. He has followers of every alignment. But in the case of this particular god, you are correct.
I could be misremembering but I think the one step away was specifically for divine spellcasting classes. I think lay followers can be any alignment.
Most of them do worship Eilistraee, and she actively reaches for all drow, good or not (through visions, emotions, dreams, or practical help in their life). Keep in mind that she has at very least a few thousands of followers, and with WotC pushing their "less than 1% of drow are not evil" BS, the vast majority of good drow do feel her call. Especially because she even has orders of paladins and clerics who infiltrate Lolthite settlements to help drow who are unsatisfied or in a bad situation escape.
Most of Eilistraee's followers are CG, NG, or even LG. That's clearly spelled out in Demihuman Deities. Even those who come to her due to being rescued from calamities or hardships (most of them) learn emapthy and a different life. No Eilistraeen is evil; you don't follow a goddess that's about beauty, compassion and empathy if you merely want power. You may exploit hospitality and protection for a time, but if the lifestyle isn't for you, you'll look for something else, like Vhaeraun. Also, everyone seems to forget that followers of Eilistraee have their own society and communities. A lot of them were born on the surface, and have never had anything to do with Lolth's society.
Not completely true. There are many instances that saw followers of Eilistraee integrating within other societies, the most recent one being in Waterdeep in the 1490s.
Actually, there's a guard present, on duty for the official prison. He's completely ignoring the whole thing.
That ... doesn't exactly make things better.
Then the wiki needs revisioning. Demihuman Deities is very clear on this. Then again, perhaps the wiki editors saw that *most* Eilistraeens are good, but not all, so they might have made the assumption that all neutral alignments can also be Eilistraeens. Either way, evil's not included, and most are still good.
I really wasn't expecting this Drow argument to last this long. It seems it's time for a subject change.
Economy Logic: The only currency is Gold.
I know that for the sake of game mechanics it's just easier that way but in an actual economy gold is worth considerably more than silver or copper. Thus a Basic Room at an Inn costing a whole gold coin seems a bit far fetched.
I always dislike that the metal distribution in fantasy games puts gold in the top tier just like in most of our civilizations. I would love to see something we find common to be extremely rare for a change. Make golden weapons and iron coins or something. Eat with diamond cutlery and pay with gravel or mud.
The object in motion stays in motion endlessly with the same speed and in the same direction unless stopped by an unbalanced force, or a moderator.
Congratulations, you have successfully created Psiovic's First Law of Thread Derailment.
@lroumen
Well in actual D&D I believe the most valuable coinage is platinum but I would believe a room at an Inn would probably be a few silver at most (maybe a few gold for the Noble or Royal rooms but those aren't going to be offered at most Inns) and a good drink might be a few copper or a few silver for the really good stuff.
I'd feel like in a more Tabletop-Esque setting an Adventurer that throws 16 gold at an Innkeeper is going to stay in his best room with room and board for at least a week and probably still have enough to buy the entire party a round.