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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification

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  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    @monico None of the Big 6 are immune to Time Stop in Throne of Bhaal, should be pretty straightforward to Feeblemind them hiding in closed pools. I think only Abazigal dragon form, Ravager, Demogorgon and Melissan are immune to Time Stop, and Balthazar through Lunar Stance.

    CrevsDaakmonicoStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,383
    @monico: I would encourage you to go back to your previous SoD save and finish off Belhifet, though it might take some extra work to land those critical hits with the Martyr's Morningstar. If you use the bugfix or just cast Enchanted Weapon from your spellbook instead of via sequencer, it shouldn't take too many tries to get a few criticals on Belhifet even if you don't have enough Potions of Heroism to survive for 50 rounds or whatever. That way, you can call the run truly complete!

    @histamiini: I could have sworn Abazigal was immune to Time Stop, but you were right--at least in the latest version of Ascension, only his dragon form has the right opcode. His human form for the Throne of Bhaal fight just has the same immunities as the other members of the Five.

    CrevsDaakmonicoStummvonBordwehr
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 884
    edited September 2019
    Great stuff @monico
    You can find a scroll of TT in the undercity with the forgotten temple - in the unseeing eye quest line.

    The scroll is in a trapped cache north of the spider ambush when you just come down from the stairs looking for the rod below.

    Post edited by StummvonBordwehr on
    histamiinimonicosemiticgodCrevsDaak
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 564
    @StummvonBordwehr oh yeah right. I actually passed beside that cache while sneaking my way to the temple, thinking "boah, nothing useful there, let’s continue" 😂

    I’ll go grab it then and test if I can find a way to make it useful already.

    StummvonBordwehrCrevsDaak
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,443
    monico wrote: »
    I did a bit of testing on my part for my FMC against Belhifet. I can't reliably debuff him with Lower Resistance. I can only cast 2 of them before he goes invisible, and afterwards, dispelling invisibility and casting a third LR takes too long.

    So I tried with only 2 casts of LR, launched my sequencers filled with Web, cast Greater Malison, and all minions regularly failed saves so no threat from them for a while.

    Problem is, Belhifet still has more than 60% MR, my lower resistance spells have only 18 rounds duration, which is not enough to ensure Greater Malison (got 10 scrolls + 3 spell slots) can bypass his MR, while also hoping for my debilitating spells to bypass both his MR and high saves (no way to land a Doom spell on him too).

    @monico have you tried using your cleric spell first to take his MR right down?

    Victor_Creed_SFVStummvonBordwehrmonicoCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,383
    Well done, @histamiini! Clever work on leading Melissan into pre-set Delayed Blast Fireball spells. Post the text for your run and I'll add it to the Hall of Heroes in the no-reload thread.

    I think the reason why the Five recovered from Feeblemind was because one of your Wish choices was a map-wide Heal or Greater Restoration spell, which cures Feeblemind.

    StummvonBordwehrGrond0histamiiniCrevsDaak
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    @semiticgod Yeah that makes sense. Here's the text and links:

    Prada the Sorcerer: @histamiini
    Notable mods: SCS v32.4, Ascension v2.0.8, LoB Saving Throw Fix
    Difficulty: Legacy of Bhaal
    Special: Solo Run, v2.5 update (includes -11 AC in LoB mode)

    BG1 12
    SoD 1
    SoA 12345
    ToB 1234567

    CrevsDaaksemiticgod
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    edited September 2019
    Palace Ambush, Lord Vanderley first charmed the assassin, mage and shaman. Buffed up a little and activated the ambush. The three Greater Dobbelgangers were quickly sliced, nobody really got even hurt. Assassin was killed easily just by Liaa, Belt and myself. Shaman was killed just by Belt and I. Mage was dispatched quickly too after Liaa dispelled it. Sarevok injured slightly Belt before escaping. Picked up the last OGL's, three mages were separated, level skipped and hacked.

    mygw1coneaej.png
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    Sarevok's mob were burned with OGL, after which I hit Sarevok 40 times, and with 7 Potion of Explosions and 5 Oil of Fiery Burnings. At this point Sarevok had 526 hp left. Drank Oil of Speed and started kiting with Ring of Energy, and after 37 hits Sarevok was dead too. Used one PfU.

    74pxdbapi9y1.png
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    Invisibility to reach Porios, Invisibility and PfU to Korlasz. Waited her 4 hour PfF out, then used OGL Invisibility combo five times, Korlasz actually found me before last Invisibility potion hit, and surrendered right herself, that's commendable behavior. 60k selling my loot, and spent 20k in SS. From Prologue picked up the Glasses, Bless amulet and Battle Tankard.

    6pnx9c2mrfx2.png

    Chapter 8. Teleria and Golem hacked for the Stone Ally without retaliation. Did the Menhir guest. After testing I can confirm @semiticgod finding that Wight can destroy the Dwarven Amulets through level drain. So I used one Stone Golem to kill the Wight, and tried listening Dwarves getting killed, but with my surprise they pwned the Undead. No worries, I charmed the Dwarves and fed them to some Carrion Crawlers, and bargained the help of the Undead. Hid behind the tent for the parlay.

    17tmkax2e3su.png
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    Picked up the Paladin amulet from Troll cave with couple Invisibility potions. Morentherene daggered, Ziatar burned out of sight and Akanna charmed, which took 6 Charm tries. Also got to level 9. Surrendered the Fort and after Interrupting the Bridge Mage with Ring of Energy I hacked all out.

    yldsaxksm7r5.png
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    Did some mundane guests and things in Chapter 10, and Cavalier is currently waiting Crusaders to attack.

    AerakarGrond0CrevsDaakArvia
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,302
    @semiticgod Well that's were I'm good at I think, repeating the same tactic over and over again. Once I deviate from that, trouble soon follows. Currently there's good formula to beat the challenge for most classes, if you use every method available, and take the least amount of risk. It may seem boring to repeat same thing, it's not for me because I think I'm quite OCD, but that's the way to do it.

    I've recorded some end battles, but for the whole run, I don't know how much it would interest people without narration. Although video is better if you want to see how something is really done, as words can describe so much, so in key scenes definitely better. So it's probably a question of taking the trouble to do it. Didn't you do some recording? Do you think it's worth the hassle, and is it more or less work doing that way?

    StummvonBordwehrCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,383
    @histamiini: I recorded my Archer run using Streamlabs OBS, though I've heard OBS itself is easier. It didn't cause any problems and the only thing I had to change was waiting a few seconds before starting to play, since the video was black for a few seconds at the start of each recording. I haven't posted anything but the last fight with Melissan since it was so long and I wanted to edit and trim it and add commentary, which I haven't done yet.

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,626
    edited September 2019
    @monico
    monico wrote: »
    @OlvynChuru really interesting run ! Those new spells seem real fun !
    Weren’t you a bit overpowered though, especially with the bonus XP and no cap ?

    Enabling bonus experience and disabling the XP cap did make my character more powerful, but it also meant I didn't have to use all those crazy abuses that would otherwise be necessary to get through BG1 and SoD (e.g. drinking Durlag's Goblet 50 times in a single fight, using wands far more than my character's abilities, summoning creatures that are empowered by LoB mode and sitting back as they win fights on their own). That doesn't mean my run was more impressive or less cheesy than runs that used those tactics (it still used some abuses like the basilisk XP loop), but if I were to pick cheese to use in my run, I'd pick leveling up faster and reaching higher levels over spamming overpowered items, since the former is way more fun.

    Bonus XP and no cap make LoB Mode much, MUCH more enjoyable. Spending several minutes just trying to kill a single kobold with 88 HP only to get 7 experience for it is not fun. Reaching the experience cap and then not advancing any more for the rest of the game is not fun. But when killing the empowered enemies actually gives a suitable amount of experience, and my character can keep leveling up, I actually enjoy going around the map slaying monsters and doing quests, as if it were a normal playthrough.

    Grond0StummvonBordwehrsemiticgodCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,383
    I have to admit that while I've been following our traditional playbook and not enabling bonus XP or disabling the XP cap, I think that's actually less fun and less interesting overall, now that we've already developed tactics that break BG1 and SoD through items alone regardless of class. The tactics for each run are more or less the same now, simply because BG1 items are genuinely broken and so much more impactful than class abilities. It means we're learning less now, because we're just practicing a narrow set of strategies rather than developing new ones.

    I think we should disable the XP cap going forward. Playing with bonus XP as well would be game breaking for critters that aren't underpowered characters like Transmuters, but disabling the cap and disabling bonus XP would offer us some wiggle room and make it easier to avoid relying on the standard options, like wands and Durlag's Goblet.

    Unless you really heavily abused the basilisk XP loop, it wouldn't actually be game breaking, since BG1 and SoD XP couldn't actually get you much further beyond the vanilla cap. You wouldn't end up with a full set of HLAs in BG1 without bonus XP or infinite XP.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,383
    The definition of exploit or cheese is very fuzzy, but it would be interesting to see what a "zero exploit" run would look like.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,383
    I think it would be doable with a Fighter/Mage/Cleric. The Martyr's Morningstar could take down Belhifet before Mirror Images and Stoneskin wore out, and the FMC in general is a tough cookie, with wands for BG1 and PFMW and Hardiness for BG2. You'd still be relying on some conventionally strong options like Durlag's Goblet and so forth, but I don't think you'd need to use any tactics or glitches which were significantly different from developer intent, like the WoL trick.

    StummvonBordwehrCrevsDaak
  • ArnoArno Member Posts: 24
    edited September 2019
    Hi, Arno again.

    I have been playing less hours this last months but I'm still in the Challenge.

    My generalist mage has cleaned all the missions available during chapter 2 (BG2). With one exception: the one relative to the druid's trial. I can't join Cernd to my group and he always fails miserably in the fight vs Faldorn. I have tried to make him better with some spells, but the result is always the same. Any hint with this?

    Now I'm going to pay to the thieves so they could help me find Imoen.

    More notices another day!

    StummvonBordwehrAerakarCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,383
    @Arno: The latest version of SCS, v32, should make Cernd immortal during the fight, as he was in vanilla. If he fails, that's a bug. I usually use CTRL-Y when I get that bug.

    CrevsDaak
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,626
    semiticgod wrote: »
    I have to admit that while I've been following our traditional playbook and not enabling bonus XP or disabling the XP cap, I think that's actually less fun and less interesting overall, now that we've already developed tactics that break BG1 and SoD through items alone regardless of class. The tactics for each run are more or less the same now, simply because BG1 items are genuinely broken and so much more impactful than class abilities. It means we're learning less now, because we're just practicing a narrow set of strategies rather than developing new ones.

    I think we should disable the XP cap going forward. Playing with bonus XP as well would be game breaking for critters that aren't underpowered characters like Transmuters, but disabling the cap and disabling bonus XP would offer us some wiggle room and make it easier to avoid relying on the standard options, like wands and Durlag's Goblet.

    Unless you really heavily abused the basilisk XP loop, it wouldn't actually be game breaking, since BG1 and SoD XP couldn't actually get you much further beyond the vanilla cap. You wouldn't end up with a full set of HLAs in BG1 without bonus XP or infinite XP.

    Even with Insane and LoB bonus XP turned on, the experience in Baldur's Gate 1 isn't that ridiculous. Without using any XP loops, a character who goes through BG1 on LoB with bonus XP will likely get somewhere between 2,500,000 XP (if you don't clear out too many wilderness areas) and 4,000,000 XP (if you kill all the enemies in Durlag's Tower and clear out most wilderness areas).

    It's only in Siege of Dragonspear that the experience starts flowing super-fast. In my transmuter playthrough she started SoD with about 4,000,000 XP (largely from re-petrifying enemies) and ended SoD with 11,600,000 XP. She got 1,500,000 XP just from Avernus alone (where a red abishai gives 38,000 XP).

    So if you want to limit the experience you get, my suggestion would be to either enable both Insane and LoB bonus XP in BG1 then disable one or both in SoD, or go through BG1 and SoD with just one source of bonus XP enabled.

    The experience one gets matters less than how willing one is to use the most powerful strategies (e.g. summoning overpowered creatures like skeleton warriors, fire elementals or planetars and sitting back as they win the fight on their own).

    Grond0semiticgodCrevsDaak
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