Fear is justified when people are out there who are taking concrete actions against you or things you support.
Gohmert and the Republican party are attacking
the Americann system of government. There have been multiple attempts. Just because the attempts have failed - so far - doesn't mean we should not recognize and fear what is happening.
Yep, I wish I could be optimistic about the GOP, and see them actually disassociating from Trump. But it appears to be the opposite of the case. I don't think there's much risk of Trump stealing the election here at the 11th hour.
What's clearly happening, in my opinion, is that Trump is going to use these false claims about the election to remain the vocal head of the GOP when he's out of power. And almost nobody in the Republican party seems interested in trying to prevent this. I suspect we're going to see him hosting rallies once again, attempting to flood the media with his presence as much as possible, going to opine on every issue of the day. And he's going to maintain the mantle of being the GOP frontrunner for the next presidential nomination.
What this means is that we're going to have four years of GOP leadership being in lockstep that Biden isn't legitimate. This means no serious compromise on any issue. This means a minority, but large group, of the population continuing to believe this. And what it really means is a longer term erosion of our democracy's capacity to function.
So far from being something that we think will just fade away, I think we do need to be alarmed about it. And, as much as people can, voice how reprehensible this behavior is.
Trump absolutely will continue to hold rallies after Biden is President in preparation for his 2024 bid which may or may not actually happen. But it's a good way to continue to raise money that he can funnel to himself and to get people who believe his lies to fawn over him. That's his favorite thing, other people kissing his ass and cheering for him. He's such a narcissist it's the adoration that he loves. Oh and he'll continue to racist fearmonger and spread hate. So yeah the politics of division led by the guy who pushed the birther movement will continue.
McConnell is, at best, going to poison-pill the standalone stimulus to the point that Democrats cannot vote for it. Bernie is going to filibuster the defense authorization bill in response. I would be absolutely shocked if this passes the Senate.
The true power in Republican politics is still Mitch McConnell. Unlike Trump, he doesn't give a rat's ass about his approval rating. He knows he can get reelected in Kentucky even with approval ratings in the 30s simply by not having a D after his name. He does the bidding of big business every time, and this will be no different. A $2000.00 check can't go out, because it would mean admitting that government can, in fact, help people. Their entire project is to make sure people think that isn't the case.
The GOP alone is blocking $2000 payments to Americans during the pandemic.
First they blocked it in the House of Representatives, in a short amendment to the original covid relief bill forcing this standalone effort that again was blocked by the GOP this time in the Senate.
If you want your tax money to work for you, do not vote for Republicans.
There's a Times article about the rise of police unions in the 1960s, a response to anti-racism protests during the civil rights era. Apparently arbitration is the standard procedure for dealing with police misconduct, and police unions get equal power over choosing arbiters.
The net result? Police chiefs cannot even discipline their own officers without the say-so of unelected unions. Police unions don't just fight for higher wages like a normal union; they actively prevent violent criminals from being punished. Union rules can take precedence over state laws, and some of the regulations can be blatantly unethical, like allowing an officer's misconduct to be just flat-out erased after 2 years--which means it can be impossible to prove to an arbiter that there's a history of misconduct; you can just erase the history.
Violent criminals can be reinstated in the police force by unelected courts that aren't allowed to view all evidence, with substitute judges that police unions can pick themselves. It's no wonder it's so rare for officers to be held accountable for crimes they commit on duty. Even if their coworkers don't illegally cover up for them and even if the police chief themself tries to discipline them--even a slap on the wrist like suspension with pay--the police union will sabotage any attempt to hold them accountable.
It's not just that it's technically legal for an officer to commit theft (billions have been lost to "civil forfeiture"), or that officers can determine if a woman in custody consented to sex with an officer, or that officers can cite their own personal feelings to get away with murder, or even that officers have connections to prosecutors, or even that officers can coordinate to destroy or manipulate evidence to protect each other; it's that even if an officer somehow manages to commit a crime without all of those things shielding them from scrutiny, they can still count on the arbitration process to get them out of jail and even put them back on the beat... or pay them tens of thousands of dollars to bribe them into quitting their job.
It's not just that police officers can protect each other individually on an ad hoc scale. There are entire systems designed specifically to keep officers from being punished for misconduct--systems that were designed in the 1960's because police departments didn't like all the black people protesting segregation.
I've heard so many examples of arbitration being abused as a system, whether it's a company that doesn't want its employees to be able to sue them for mistreatment or police officers who don't want the police chief to be able to discipline them. The whole concept of arbitration is simply to keep people from being able to take things to the courts. It's there to give powerful people a courtroom they can manipulate in advance.
There's a Times article about the rise of police unions in the 1960s, a response to anti-racism protests during the civil rights era. Apparently arbitration is the standard procedure for dealing with police misconduct, and police unions get equal power over choosing arbiters.
The net result? Police chiefs cannot even discipline their own officers without the say-so of unelected unions. Police unions don't just fight for higher wages like a normal union; they actively prevent violent criminals from being punished. Union rules can take precedence over state laws, and some of the regulations can be blatantly unethical, like allowing an officer's misconduct to be just flat-out erased after 2 years--which means it can be impossible to prove to an arbiter that there's a history of misconduct; you can just erase the history.
Violent criminals can be reinstated in the police force by unelected courts that aren't allowed to view all evidence, with substitute judges that police unions can pick themselves. It's no wonder it's so rare for officers to be held accountable for crimes they commit on duty. Even if their coworkers don't illegally cover up for them and even if the police chief themself tries to discipline them--even a slap on the wrist like suspension with pay--the police union will sabotage any attempt to hold them accountable.
It's not just that it's technically legal for an officer to commit theft (billions have been lost to "civil forfeiture"), or that officers can determine if a woman in custody consented to sex with an officer, or that officers can cite their own personal feelings to get away with murder, or even that officers have connections to prosecutors, or even that officers can coordinate to destroy or manipulate evidence to protect each other; it's that even if an officer somehow manages to commit a crime without all of those things shielding them from scrutiny, they can still count on the arbitration process to get them out of jail and even put them back on the beat... or pay them tens of thousands of dollars to bribe them into quitting their job.
It's not just that police officers can protect each other individually on an ad hoc scale. There are entire systems designed specifically to keep officers from being punished for misconduct--systems that were designed in the 1960's because police departments didn't like all the black people protesting segregation.
You're going to find that much of American policing has it's roots in making sure a foot is kept on the neck of African-Americans. As for the police unions (who can essentially make a reformist police chief completely impotent with one widely circulated memo), the only way you solve this brutality problem is making the officers pay the legal settlements out of their pension fund. Because the taxpayers (many of whom need faiting couches because of food stamp budgets) are more than willing to throw away millions of dollars a year in lawsuits so departments can continue operating this way. This isn't a bug, it's a feature
Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, and Ted Cruz have all signalled they are going to object at the certification of electors on January 6th. Whether or not their objections are disingenuous and nothing but a play to the base for 2024 (as they are all likely running) is immaterial. The core beliefs of the Republican Party are now directly in opposition to small-d democratic principles. About 35% of the country is ready to throw out the results of elections entirely if they don't win. Which means about every 3rd person you run into is a full-blown authoritarian.
Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, and Ted Cruz have all signalled they are going to object at the certification of electors on January 6th. Whether or not their objections are disingenuous and nothing but a play to the base for 2024 (as they are all likely running) is immaterial. The core beliefs of the Republican Party are now directly in opposition to small-d democratic principles. About 35% of the country is ready to throw out the results of elections entirely if they don't win. Which means about every 3rd person you run into is a full-blown authoritarian.
They started this anti-american fascist stuff by deciding that Democrats could not appoint Supreme Court Justices.
Now they are not allowed to win Presidential elections.
Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, and Ted Cruz have all signalled they are going to object at the certification of electors on January 6th. Whether or not their objections are disingenuous and nothing but a play to the base for 2024 (as they are all likely running) is immaterial. The core beliefs of the Republican Party are now directly in opposition to small-d democratic principles. About 35% of the country is ready to throw out the results of elections entirely if they don't win. Which means about every 3rd person you run into is a full-blown authoritarian.
They started this anti-american fascist stuff by deciding that Democrats could not appoint Supreme Court Justices.
Now they are not allowed to win Presidential elections.
The is a coup attempt by the Republican party.
I just saw a clip of Hawley saying him objecting is the only chance for his constituents to be "heard". It's just a bottomless pit of aggrievement. As if Trump supporters haven't had their opinions heard the last four years. As if there haven't been countless features about them in every newspaper and on every cable news network for half a decade. Still waiting for a single profile of Clinton/Biden voters. Been searching high and low for one since 2016, and on the eve of 2021, I still haven't located a SINGLE one, nor has anyone else. Because they don't exist.
JJ, i don't think that 35% of the country authoritarian. Maybe many of them are easily mislead, not new right? Not arguing, just saying that they are fighting for something that you may not understand. I don't understand it either, I do not however believe that they are fighting for what you think they are. This is a super strannge point of our history that every word matters. Yes there are a lot of pumped up jerks right now but a lot of Trump supporters are my friends and they don't in any way support overthrowing the election. It happened, they accept that. Not one of them would support an authoritarian government. Mostly, they don't even understand that is what they are supporting. I don't even know what I am saying or why I am saying it, I do know that until we accept the other side as people, much like us, this shit will continue. No, I do understand that the right side is acting reprehensibly, that fight has been fought. Over and over again, and the world moves on. J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, Carnigie, this has happened before. What is new is the magnates making the average person believe they are working for them. Wow, pretty twisted, but they did it. It can only end one way, my problem is how many people will pay the price in the interm. Also how much they will destroy environmental concerns along the way.
Argentina is overwhelming catholic. More than even Italy.
Uruguay is another country with legalized abortion but they only legalized for residents and citizens since they don't wanna millions of Brazilians mainly from south visiting there only to have a abortion. And BTW, get residency on Uruguay is not easy, And upper middle class people here generally do abortion in other countries, low class people generally use illegal abortion drug which aren't hard to come by. Drug lords can bring even mortars from the border, is illusion to think that a small piece of abortion drug can't be bought illegally.
IMO Womb control and gun control are faded to fail in any case and the politicians who pass laws needs to be legally responsible for the laws which they approve. Eg - If a politician decides that during the pandemic, the TARGET/WALLMART are "essentials" but the local business aren't, the local business should be able to sue the politician for reparations. If the government forced universities to adopt affirmative action quotas saying that it would't affect the quality of the institution, the university should be able to sue the politicians who proposed that bill. That would end the era of crippling regulations.
The count of Republicans who are going to vote to reject the electoral college results is now 140 House members and 11 Senators. Louis Gohmert is openly suggesting that if the Vice President or the courts won't hand Trump the win, that the only solution is to turn to violence. Sitting United States House member.
There were a few members of the Black Caucus in the House who objected in 2000. This was for a very specific reason, which was Jeb Bush purging thousands of African-Americans from the voter rolls in the run-up to the election. But, more importantly, it was Al Gore himself, still acting in his official capacity as President of the Senate, who shut down every one of those complaints being made on his behalf. All you have to do is watch the first few minutes of Fahrenheit 9/11 to see the video of it.
There are no specific allegations being alleged by any of the now MAJORITY of Republican elected officials in this country. They aren't even bothering coming up with a how, what, when, where and why. Not even a cursory theory. The only theory is "liberals aren't allowed to govern" and "fuck you, we win no matter what".
Honestly, I do believe that it would be a civil war or something like it. No one will accept that the will of the people no longer chooses who leads us. I would not.
I was born in Warsaw so, not really tethered to this country. Can’t imagine I would be better off there though. Scary times. I am an American, served in he military, guess I will rise or fall along with everyone else in this country.
It's not going to happen, but just going through the motions does create dangers. An immediate threat is that the odd Trump supporter could be sufficiently enraged to resort to violence and set off a spiral of civil disorder.
I think that's pretty unlikely, but there's also a longer term issue about the undermining of democracy as the means of forming a government. Trump's reaction to losing this election was chaotic, but it will have provided pointers for a future government on how to plan for such an event. What would be really troubling is if a party, that was not committed to democracy, were in control of both the presidency and Congress - recent initiatives by large numbers of Republicans have shown how easy it would be to subvert the legal election process by a party that desired to do that.
It's not going to happen, but just going through the motions does create dangers. An immediate threat is that the odd Trump supporter could be sufficiently enraged to resort to violence and set off a spiral of civil disorder.
I think that's pretty unlikely, but there's also a longer term issue about the undermining of democracy as the means of forming a government. Trump's reaction to losing this election was chaotic, but it will have provided pointers for a future government on how to plan for such an event. What would be really troubling is if a party, that was not committed to democracy, were in control of both the presidency and Congress - recent initiatives by large numbers of Republicans have shown how easy it would be to subvert the legal election process by a party that desired to do that.
Honestly - I think this is exactly it. The two truly scary things happening right now are
A - The abuse of the court to try to overturn the election. The GOP in general has made it a huge priority to place ideologically friend judges in place. It's not hard to imagine that if they continue to value ideological purity over legal foundations, the courts could become a tool of authoritarism for the GOP.
B - The precedent being set that all it will take is a simple majority in both the House and Senate to discount any EVs that are deemed "fraudulent"(This has technically always been the case, but never before used as a weapon to try to overturn a legal election). Especially when the GOP has been incapable of even producing any meaningful form of proof and still objecting en masse.
With the Senate being fundamentally designed to be conservative in nature, and the house being gerrymandered in the extreme to favor the GOP - it isnt hard to believe a presidential race in which the Democrats win the popular vote, the EC and fail to secure either the Senate or House. In that case, there is nothing preventing the GOP from stealing the election. In the past, we've relied upon norms to prevent it from happening - but even the destined to fail objections we have here are dangerously undermining those norms.
It's not going to happen, but just going through the motions does create dangers. An immediate threat is that the odd Trump supporter could be sufficiently enraged to resort to violence and set off a spiral of civil disorder.
I think that's pretty unlikely, but there's also a longer term issue about the undermining of democracy as the means of forming a government. Trump's reaction to losing this election was chaotic, but it will have provided pointers for a future government on how to plan for such an event. What would be really troubling is if a party, that was not committed to democracy, were in control of both the presidency and Congress - recent initiatives by large numbers of Republicans have shown how easy it would be to subvert the legal election process by a party that desired to do that.
Honestly - I think this is exactly it. The two truly scary things happening right now are
A - The abuse of the court to try to overturn the election. The GOP in general has made it a huge priority to place ideologically friend judges in place. It's not hard to imagine that if they continue to value ideological purity over legal foundations, the courts could become a tool of authoritarism for the GOP.
B - The precedent being set that all it will take is a simple majority in both the House and Senate to discount any EVs that are deemed "fraudulent"(This has technically always been the case, but never before used as a weapon to try to overturn a legal election). Especially when the GOP has been incapable of even producing any meaningful form of proof and still objecting en masse.
With the Senate being fundamentally designed to be conservative in nature, and the house being gerrymandered in the extreme to favor the GOP - it isnt hard to believe a presidential race in which the Democrats win the popular vote, the EC and fail to secure either the Senate or House. In that case, there is nothing preventing the GOP from stealing the election. In the past, we've relied upon norms to prevent it from happening - but even the destined to fail objections we have here are dangerously undermining those norms.
It's not some handful of crazies who have signed off on this shit. It's 24 State Attorneys General, 140 United States Congressman, and 11 Senators, along with Pence, Trump and the entire right-wing media infrastructure. And on the other side you have....Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, and Lisa Murkowski. Anyone arguing that the later three are more important as a true definition of the Republican Party than the former are certifiably insane. The MAJORITY of major Republican elected officials want to overturn the election results. That is the basic fact of where we are.
Not entirely sure Pence is on board. A lot of what we are seeing right now is people afraid of stepping the wrong way in this administration. The one thing you can be sure of as a Trump sycophant is that if you break ranks he will disown you. Literally and figuratively, can’t hope for a pardon even as a long time politician and vice fuck up of Trump. He has already started to put separation between them.
So many are acting like this is a movement, it is not. It was one man. Yes he has ridiculous control of the hillbilly nation, but he is not a god. Even to them. Okay, yeah, some of them might see him as a god, normal genetics will prove them wrong in the next ten years.
Biggest problem with Biden, genetics will plant him in the ground in the next ten years also. He will not be president for eight years. That is the concern. That is what we are looking to four years from now. They better pick someone less likely to be loathed than Hillary.
It's not going to happen, but just going through the motions does create dangers. An immediate threat is that the odd Trump supporter could be sufficiently enraged to resort to violence and set off a spiral of civil disorder.
I think that's pretty unlikely, but there's also a longer term issue about the undermining of democracy as the means of forming a government. Trump's reaction to losing this election was chaotic, but it will have provided pointers for a future government on how to plan for such an event. What would be really troubling is if a party, that was not committed to democracy, were in control of both the presidency and Congress - recent initiatives by large numbers of Republicans have shown how easy it would be to subvert the legal election process by a party that desired to do that.
Honestly - I think this is exactly it. The two truly scary things happening right now are
A - The abuse of the court to try to overturn the election. The GOP in general has made it a huge priority to place ideologically friend judges in place. It's not hard to imagine that if they continue to value ideological purity over legal foundations, the courts could become a tool of authoritarism for the GOP.
B - The precedent being set that all it will take is a simple majority in both the House and Senate to discount any EVs that are deemed "fraudulent"(This has technically always been the case, but never before used as a weapon to try to overturn a legal election). Especially when the GOP has been incapable of even producing any meaningful form of proof and still objecting en masse.
With the Senate being fundamentally designed to be conservative in nature, and the house being gerrymandered in the extreme to favor the GOP - it isnt hard to believe a presidential race in which the Democrats win the popular vote, the EC and fail to secure either the Senate or House. In that case, there is nothing preventing the GOP from stealing the election. In the past, we've relied upon norms to prevent it from happening - but even the destined to fail objections we have here are dangerously undermining those norms.
It's not some handful of crazies who have signed off on this shit. It's 24 State Attorneys General, 140 United States Congressman, and 11 Senators, along with Pence, Trump and the entire right-wing media infrastructure. And on the other side you have....Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, and Lisa Murkowski. Anyone arguing that the later three are more important as a true definition of the Republican Party than the former are certifiably insane. The MAJORITY of major Republican elected officials want to overturn the election results. That is the basic fact of where we are.
You know when Trump’s personal lawyer calls for your death, you aren’t playing by Trump’s rules.
I always thought Pence was in a very tough situation. Even if you do not agree with him politically, he kept his head down this entire time and did the best job he could under the circumstances. If it wasn’t for COVID, and him being thrown under the bus, I mean tasked with leading the response, he probably would have been replaced as a Trump’s running mate. I am pretty sure he’ll put country over party in the coming days, and his actions, in my opinion, speak to that.
Everyone else you listed though, this is just a warm up to 2024, where the GOP will win back the house in 2022. That should be on everyone’s mind, not next week.
Edit: come to think of it, I am surprised they just haven’t attempted to replace Pence with someone like Pompeo who will just throw out the votes. Still time though I guess.
I dont give Pence too much credit. He has signaled that he supports the objections of Cruz/Hawley/etc who want to overturn the election. It seems to me that if he thought he had legal grounds to do so, he'd do it.
Instead, what I see out of Pence is survival with 2024 on his mind. He's doing enough (signaling support for the objections) to try to make a credible case as the successor to Trump in the Trumpian faction of the GOP as well as staying far enough away from the front lines that he can credibly a "Return to normalcy" candidate (Echoing a Nikki Haley or Tim Scott approach).
The only Republicans who deserve actual credit for standing up to this madness (all four years of it) are Justin Amash in the House and Mitt Romney, who actually took action to end this before it got to this point by voting for Trump's removal during impeachment. And Romney is the only voicing objection now who I find remotely genuine. This is a guy who fully expected to win on election night in 2012, and instead got beateb pretty soundly. And took his loss standing up with some dignity. Of course, he could REALLY send a message by caucusing with the Democrats in response (doesn't have to vote with them, but would rip power from McConnell). But I suppose that is too much to ask for.
As for 2024, Josh Hawley is a legitimate danger. He is adapting all the pillars of Trumpism, lock, stock and barrel, with the polished veneer of a normal politician. Josh Hawley knows the election wasn't stolen. He is a Yale-educated lawyer, he isn't stupid. The core problem isn't these craven opportunists, as horrible as they are. The problem is the Republican base voters they have to cater to.
And since I brought up impeachment, could Adam Schiff's closing argument during the Senate trial have been ANY more correct given what happened during the entirety of 2020?? He was practically Nostradamus.
And OF COURSE, here is Trump, from the Oval Office doing EXACTLY what the Republicans are accusing the Democrats of doing. It's ALWAYS projection with these people. It's uncanny.
This is absolutely treasonous. No joke. I don't care about how it looks optically for the Biden Administration. This is on tape. Trump needs to be criminally tried for this. He is ON TAPE trying to rig the election results in Georgia. And 45% of the country still supports him. He should be impeached again immediately, even if he is only in office for 18 more days:
The mental contortions Trump supporters are going to use to defend this, on a national level, and even in your daily life, will be the final proof and indication of how this has morphed into a full-on cult. He is now on audio recording asking the Georgia Secretary of State to alter election results. Talking, honest to god, like a mob boss. But the fact is, none of them care. They are perfectly happy to steal the election while at the same side accusing the other side of doing so (I'm talking about regular voters). The Republican Party has, at long last, abandoned democracy entirely. If they want to prove they haven't, they can come out and break from this man this instant. If not, you've made your intentions and beliefs clear. This is a black and white issue. This actually is a failed coup attempt.
I do encourage everyone to read that WaPo story jj just linked. It's hard to say anything stuns me about his behavior any more, but in a functioning democracy, the legislature would immediately convene, impeach and remove him.
I do encourage everyone to read that WaPo story jj just linked. It's hard to say anything stuns me about his behavior any more, but in a functioning democracy, the legislature would immediately convene, impeach and remove him.
Like I just told my cousin, I'm not stunned it happened, I'm at least somewhat surprised we have audio evidence. My guess is the GA Secretary of State leaked it, most likely because he's sick of his family getting constant death threats.
Here's the problem for the Biden Administration, and it's huge. To uphold any sense of the rule of law, Trump has to be punished and face consequences for what he has done. But doing so will frane the overall narrative of the Biden Administration as a retribution campaign against Trump, and every news cycle will be a cage match between Trump and whatever prosecutors are going after him, paralyzing the incoming Administration's ability to do anything for actual people. Trump is terrified of not having the office protecting him anymore, but he has basically inoculated himself because of political circumstances.
Also worth remembering how, in the aftermath of the election, we saw a flood of flimsy allegations of voter fraud, election chincanery, etc. Conservatives were adamant that all these anecdotes be fully investigated. Cries of "Why don't you want to at least investigate!?" Of course, as we know, not a single allegation held up in court.
And now we have a smoking gun evidence of the top Republican in the country attempting to fraudulently change the vote total in Georgia. And... it's just ignored.
Also worth remembering how, in the aftermath of the election, we saw a flood of flimsy allegations of voter fraud, election chincanery, etc. Conservatives were adamant that all these anecdotes be fully investigated. Cries of "Why don't you want to at least investigate!?" Of course, as we know, not a single allegation held up in court.
And now we have a smoking gun evidence of the top Republican in the country attempting to fraudulently change the vote total in Georgia. And... it's just ignored.
Because arguing in bad faith is literally their religion. There is no way to have a functioning government when one side is this intellectually dishonest and cynical. There isn't any way to combat something like this. The most powerful deterrents against such behavior are a.) threat of punishment and b.) shame. They have no chance of facing the former and don't possess the emotional capacity for the later. Which makes them nearly invincible.
I do encourage everyone to read that WaPo story jj just linked. It's hard to say anything stuns me about his behavior any more, but in a functioning democracy, the legislature would immediately convene, impeach and remove him.
Like I just told my cousin, I'm not stunned it happened, I'm at least somewhat surprised we have audio evidence. My guess is the GA Secretary of State leaked it, most likely because he's sick of his family getting constant death threats.
Here's the problem for the Biden Administration, and it's huge. To uphold any sense of the rule of law, Trump has to be punished and face consequences for what he has done. But doing so will frane the overall narrative of the Biden Administration as a retribution campaign against Trump, and every news cycle will be a cage match between Trump and whatever prosecutors are going after him, paralyzing the incoming Administration's ability to do anything for actual people. Trump is terrified of not having the office protecting him anymore, but he has basically inoculated himself because of political circumstances.
I am pretty sure Raffensperger leaked it. He literally threatened Trump on Twitter that the truth will come out prior to its release after Trump, once again, threw him under the bus on Twitter. He is actually standing up to Trump, and has since the beginning of these election fraud claims.
When it comes to Biden, just give Trump what he wants: An independent investigation looking at all claims of election fraud starting with that now released tape, and then stay the hell out of it unlike how Trump couldn't. "We have no comment on that independent investigation at the moment, nor will we provide one in the future," is all the administration needs to say regarding any investigation into Trump, and if they have too, remind the media that there is a separation between them and the judicial branch of government even if the last four years challenged that notion.
I do encourage everyone to read that WaPo story jj just linked. It's hard to say anything stuns me about his behavior any more, but in a functioning democracy, the legislature would immediately convene, impeach and remove him.
Like I just told my cousin, I'm not stunned it happened, I'm at least somewhat surprised we have audio evidence. My guess is the GA Secretary of State leaked it, most likely because he's sick of his family getting constant death threats.
Here's the problem for the Biden Administration, and it's huge. To uphold any sense of the rule of law, Trump has to be punished and face consequences for what he has done. But doing so will frane the overall narrative of the Biden Administration as a retribution campaign against Trump, and every news cycle will be a cage match between Trump and whatever prosecutors are going after him, paralyzing the incoming Administration's ability to do anything for actual people. Trump is terrified of not having the office protecting him anymore, but he has basically inoculated himself because of political circumstances.
I am pretty sure Raffensperger leaked it. He literally threatened Trump on Twitter that the truth will come out prior to its release after Trump, once again, threw him under the bus on Twitter. He is actually standing up to Trump, and has since the beginning of these election fraud claims.
When it comes to Biden, just give Trump what he wants: An independent investigation looking at all claims of election fraud starting with that now released tape, and then stay the hell out of it unlike how Trump couldn't. "We have no comment on that independent investigation at the moment, nor will we provide one in the future," is all the administration needs to say regarding any investigation into Trump, and if they have too, remind the media that there is a separation between them and the judicial branch of government even if the last four years challenged that notion.
This is a fine idea in theory. It fails to take into account that Trump is basically going to be seen as a President in Exile by about 40% of the country, and any prosecution of him, even given this iron-clad audio evidence we now have, will be seen as an attack on THEM personally, the media will play along, and every nightly news cast for two years will basically be the political version of Monday Night Raw, with Trump claiming political persecution and tying that to the grievances of his base I have gone over endlessly in this thread. It would be this way even if a REPUBLICAN State AG or Federal Prosecutor went after him, if it's a Democrat, multiply that by ten. There is no way to hold this man accountable without further damage to the fault lines which are already cracking. If he isn't held accountable, then we are saying everything he did should be allowed and is normal behavior. There is no way to win this game. If you go back and watch old video clips from the time, there were plenty of normal people in New York who believed John Gotti was the true victim every time he was put on trial. Same dynamic here.
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Trump absolutely will continue to hold rallies after Biden is President in preparation for his 2024 bid which may or may not actually happen. But it's a good way to continue to raise money that he can funnel to himself and to get people who believe his lies to fawn over him. That's his favorite thing, other people kissing his ass and cheering for him. He's such a narcissist it's the adoration that he loves. Oh and he'll continue to racist fearmonger and spread hate. So yeah the politics of division led by the guy who pushed the birther movement will continue.
The GOP alone is blocking $2000 payments to Americans during the pandemic.
First they blocked it in the House of Representatives, in a short amendment to the original covid relief bill forcing this standalone effort that again was blocked by the GOP this time in the Senate.
If you want your tax money to work for you, do not vote for Republicans.
The net result? Police chiefs cannot even discipline their own officers without the say-so of unelected unions. Police unions don't just fight for higher wages like a normal union; they actively prevent violent criminals from being punished. Union rules can take precedence over state laws, and some of the regulations can be blatantly unethical, like allowing an officer's misconduct to be just flat-out erased after 2 years--which means it can be impossible to prove to an arbiter that there's a history of misconduct; you can just erase the history.
Violent criminals can be reinstated in the police force by unelected courts that aren't allowed to view all evidence, with substitute judges that police unions can pick themselves. It's no wonder it's so rare for officers to be held accountable for crimes they commit on duty. Even if their coworkers don't illegally cover up for them and even if the police chief themself tries to discipline them--even a slap on the wrist like suspension with pay--the police union will sabotage any attempt to hold them accountable.
It's not just that it's technically legal for an officer to commit theft (billions have been lost to "civil forfeiture"), or that officers can determine if a woman in custody consented to sex with an officer, or that officers can cite their own personal feelings to get away with murder, or even that officers have connections to prosecutors, or even that officers can coordinate to destroy or manipulate evidence to protect each other; it's that even if an officer somehow manages to commit a crime without all of those things shielding them from scrutiny, they can still count on the arbitration process to get them out of jail and even put them back on the beat... or pay them tens of thousands of dollars to bribe them into quitting their job.
It's not just that police officers can protect each other individually on an ad hoc scale. There are entire systems designed specifically to keep officers from being punished for misconduct--systems that were designed in the 1960's because police departments didn't like all the black people protesting segregation.
You're going to find that much of American policing has it's roots in making sure a foot is kept on the neck of African-Americans. As for the police unions (who can essentially make a reformist police chief completely impotent with one widely circulated memo), the only way you solve this brutality problem is making the officers pay the legal settlements out of their pension fund. Because the taxpayers (many of whom need faiting couches because of food stamp budgets) are more than willing to throw away millions of dollars a year in lawsuits so departments can continue operating this way. This isn't a bug, it's a feature
I agree wholeheartedly. This is the only thing that could actually work. Everything else has been tried, and all of it has failed.
They started this anti-american fascist stuff by deciding that Democrats could not appoint Supreme Court Justices.
Now they are not allowed to win Presidential elections.
The is a coup attempt by the Republican party.
I just saw a clip of Hawley saying him objecting is the only chance for his constituents to be "heard". It's just a bottomless pit of aggrievement. As if Trump supporters haven't had their opinions heard the last four years. As if there haven't been countless features about them in every newspaper and on every cable news network for half a decade. Still waiting for a single profile of Clinton/Biden voters. Been searching high and low for one since 2016, and on the eve of 2021, I still haven't located a SINGLE one, nor has anyone else. Because they don't exist.
It doesn't end well.
Argentina is overwhelming catholic. More than even Italy.
Uruguay is another country with legalized abortion but they only legalized for residents and citizens since they don't wanna millions of Brazilians mainly from south visiting there only to have a abortion. And BTW, get residency on Uruguay is not easy, And upper middle class people here generally do abortion in other countries, low class people generally use illegal abortion drug which aren't hard to come by. Drug lords can bring even mortars from the border, is illusion to think that a small piece of abortion drug can't be bought illegally.
IMO Womb control and gun control are faded to fail in any case and the politicians who pass laws needs to be legally responsible for the laws which they approve. Eg - If a politician decides that during the pandemic, the TARGET/WALLMART are "essentials" but the local business aren't, the local business should be able to sue the politician for reparations. If the government forced universities to adopt affirmative action quotas saying that it would't affect the quality of the institution, the university should be able to sue the politicians who proposed that bill. That would end the era of crippling regulations.
There were a few members of the Black Caucus in the House who objected in 2000. This was for a very specific reason, which was Jeb Bush purging thousands of African-Americans from the voter rolls in the run-up to the election. But, more importantly, it was Al Gore himself, still acting in his official capacity as President of the Senate, who shut down every one of those complaints being made on his behalf. All you have to do is watch the first few minutes of Fahrenheit 9/11 to see the video of it.
There are no specific allegations being alleged by any of the now MAJORITY of Republican elected officials in this country. They aren't even bothering coming up with a how, what, when, where and why. Not even a cursory theory. The only theory is "liberals aren't allowed to govern" and "fuck you, we win no matter what".
I don't think that the last will gonna happen but the first two are the most likely scenarios.
I was born in Warsaw so, not really tethered to this country. Can’t imagine I would be better off there though. Scary times. I am an American, served in he military, guess I will rise or fall along with everyone else in this country.
I think that's pretty unlikely, but there's also a longer term issue about the undermining of democracy as the means of forming a government. Trump's reaction to losing this election was chaotic, but it will have provided pointers for a future government on how to plan for such an event. What would be really troubling is if a party, that was not committed to democracy, were in control of both the presidency and Congress - recent initiatives by large numbers of Republicans have shown how easy it would be to subvert the legal election process by a party that desired to do that.
Honestly - I think this is exactly it. The two truly scary things happening right now are
A - The abuse of the court to try to overturn the election. The GOP in general has made it a huge priority to place ideologically friend judges in place. It's not hard to imagine that if they continue to value ideological purity over legal foundations, the courts could become a tool of authoritarism for the GOP.
B - The precedent being set that all it will take is a simple majority in both the House and Senate to discount any EVs that are deemed "fraudulent"(This has technically always been the case, but never before used as a weapon to try to overturn a legal election). Especially when the GOP has been incapable of even producing any meaningful form of proof and still objecting en masse.
With the Senate being fundamentally designed to be conservative in nature, and the house being gerrymandered in the extreme to favor the GOP - it isnt hard to believe a presidential race in which the Democrats win the popular vote, the EC and fail to secure either the Senate or House. In that case, there is nothing preventing the GOP from stealing the election. In the past, we've relied upon norms to prevent it from happening - but even the destined to fail objections we have here are dangerously undermining those norms.
It's not some handful of crazies who have signed off on this shit. It's 24 State Attorneys General, 140 United States Congressman, and 11 Senators, along with Pence, Trump and the entire right-wing media infrastructure. And on the other side you have....Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, and Lisa Murkowski. Anyone arguing that the later three are more important as a true definition of the Republican Party than the former are certifiably insane. The MAJORITY of major Republican elected officials want to overturn the election results. That is the basic fact of where we are.
So many are acting like this is a movement, it is not. It was one man. Yes he has ridiculous control of the hillbilly nation, but he is not a god. Even to them. Okay, yeah, some of them might see him as a god, normal genetics will prove them wrong in the next ten years.
Biggest problem with Biden, genetics will plant him in the ground in the next ten years also. He will not be president for eight years. That is the concern. That is what we are looking to four years from now. They better pick someone less likely to be loathed than Hillary.
Pence has come out against this tactic as he asked for the case against him to be dismissed https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/pence-seeks-dismissal-of-suit-aiming-to-overturn-election-mike-pence-justice-department-donald-trump-results-republican-b1781253.html
to the point where Lin Wood said Pence should be executed by firing squad. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-pence-wood-firing-squad-b1781554.html
You know when Trump’s personal lawyer calls for your death, you aren’t playing by Trump’s rules.
I always thought Pence was in a very tough situation. Even if you do not agree with him politically, he kept his head down this entire time and did the best job he could under the circumstances. If it wasn’t for COVID, and him being thrown under the bus, I mean tasked with leading the response, he probably would have been replaced as a Trump’s running mate. I am pretty sure he’ll put country over party in the coming days, and his actions, in my opinion, speak to that.
Everyone else you listed though, this is just a warm up to 2024, where the GOP will win back the house in 2022. That should be on everyone’s mind, not next week.
Edit: come to think of it, I am surprised they just haven’t attempted to replace Pence with someone like Pompeo who will just throw out the votes. Still time though I guess.
Instead, what I see out of Pence is survival with 2024 on his mind. He's doing enough (signaling support for the objections) to try to make a credible case as the successor to Trump in the Trumpian faction of the GOP as well as staying far enough away from the front lines that he can credibly a "Return to normalcy" candidate (Echoing a Nikki Haley or Tim Scott approach).
As for 2024, Josh Hawley is a legitimate danger. He is adapting all the pillars of Trumpism, lock, stock and barrel, with the polished veneer of a normal politician. Josh Hawley knows the election wasn't stolen. He is a Yale-educated lawyer, he isn't stupid. The core problem isn't these craven opportunists, as horrible as they are. The problem is the Republican base voters they have to cater to.
And since I brought up impeachment, could Adam Schiff's closing argument during the Senate trial have been ANY more correct given what happened during the entirety of 2020?? He was practically Nostradamus.
And OF COURSE, here is Trump, from the Oval Office doing EXACTLY what the Republicans are accusing the Democrats of doing. It's ALWAYS projection with these people. It's uncanny.
This is absolutely treasonous. No joke. I don't care about how it looks optically for the Biden Administration. This is on tape. Trump needs to be criminally tried for this. He is ON TAPE trying to rig the election results in Georgia. And 45% of the country still supports him. He should be impeached again immediately, even if he is only in office for 18 more days:
The mental contortions Trump supporters are going to use to defend this, on a national level, and even in your daily life, will be the final proof and indication of how this has morphed into a full-on cult. He is now on audio recording asking the Georgia Secretary of State to alter election results. Talking, honest to god, like a mob boss. But the fact is, none of them care. They are perfectly happy to steal the election while at the same side accusing the other side of doing so (I'm talking about regular voters). The Republican Party has, at long last, abandoned democracy entirely. If they want to prove they haven't, they can come out and break from this man this instant. If not, you've made your intentions and beliefs clear. This is a black and white issue. This actually is a failed coup attempt.
Like I just told my cousin, I'm not stunned it happened, I'm at least somewhat surprised we have audio evidence. My guess is the GA Secretary of State leaked it, most likely because he's sick of his family getting constant death threats.
Here's the problem for the Biden Administration, and it's huge. To uphold any sense of the rule of law, Trump has to be punished and face consequences for what he has done. But doing so will frane the overall narrative of the Biden Administration as a retribution campaign against Trump, and every news cycle will be a cage match between Trump and whatever prosecutors are going after him, paralyzing the incoming Administration's ability to do anything for actual people. Trump is terrified of not having the office protecting him anymore, but he has basically inoculated himself because of political circumstances.
And now we have a smoking gun evidence of the top Republican in the country attempting to fraudulently change the vote total in Georgia. And... it's just ignored.
Because arguing in bad faith is literally their religion. There is no way to have a functioning government when one side is this intellectually dishonest and cynical. There isn't any way to combat something like this. The most powerful deterrents against such behavior are a.) threat of punishment and b.) shame. They have no chance of facing the former and don't possess the emotional capacity for the later. Which makes them nearly invincible.
I am pretty sure Raffensperger leaked it. He literally threatened Trump on Twitter that the truth will come out prior to its release after Trump, once again, threw him under the bus on Twitter. He is actually standing up to Trump, and has since the beginning of these election fraud claims.
When it comes to Biden, just give Trump what he wants: An independent investigation looking at all claims of election fraud starting with that now released tape, and then stay the hell out of it unlike how Trump couldn't. "We have no comment on that independent investigation at the moment, nor will we provide one in the future," is all the administration needs to say regarding any investigation into Trump, and if they have too, remind the media that there is a separation between them and the judicial branch of government even if the last four years challenged that notion.
This is a fine idea in theory. It fails to take into account that Trump is basically going to be seen as a President in Exile by about 40% of the country, and any prosecution of him, even given this iron-clad audio evidence we now have, will be seen as an attack on THEM personally, the media will play along, and every nightly news cast for two years will basically be the political version of Monday Night Raw, with Trump claiming political persecution and tying that to the grievances of his base I have gone over endlessly in this thread. It would be this way even if a REPUBLICAN State AG or Federal Prosecutor went after him, if it's a Democrat, multiply that by ten. There is no way to hold this man accountable without further damage to the fault lines which are already cracking. If he isn't held accountable, then we are saying everything he did should be allowed and is normal behavior. There is no way to win this game. If you go back and watch old video clips from the time, there were plenty of normal people in New York who believed John Gotti was the true victim every time he was put on trial. Same dynamic here.