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Speculation: Beamdog is making another IE game/campaign

I am pulling my speculation to it's own thread, instead of continuing in a beta feedback thread..
Galactygon wrote: »
@_Luke_ Unfortunately we had to shift gear and prioritise other issues for this build as we're wrapping up work on 2.6. Rest assured, the fixes are already submitted internally ready to be applied; they will simply be part of 2.7 instead. Thanks for your valuable contributions.
Khyron wrote: »
Alright.. that's it. I am making a call.. and I am calling out Beamdog on this.

You're making another entry in the line of Infinity Engine games.
I'm not gonna speculate if it's BG, IWD or something completely different.

But you are making another IE game/campaign one way or another.

It makes absolutely no sense to keep patching this game if your goal is to make money.
Which I assume it is.
You won't be selling much more of the already released EE games, they've been out for several years already.. patching games this old makes no sense at all, unless your patches are Engine level changes and improvements which swipes across all EE games, paving the way for a new title to be released on a tried and tested engine.

Confirming that 2.7 is a thing makes me convinced there's something in the pipelines.




So here I am, quite possibly making a fool of myself yet again.
But I am convinced there's something comming.. or continuing with these patches would just be draining resources from a company that has probably felt the pandemic on it's coffers just like everyone else.


Speculation: Engage.

StummvonBordwehrAllanon81
«1

Comments

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 850
    Interesting, but wouldn't it be easier to develop with a modern - and less quirky - engine?

    mlneveseAedan
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    edited February 11
    Could very well be, but at this point they have several people who are all very good at working with the Infinity Engine.. an engine they can probably use without paying for it.

    Unlike most other engines where the owner charge for it's use.

    Using an engine they know, that has a great lineage, relatively huge amount of modders and fans, and quite likely free of charge.. not to mention it has been already converted to just about every single platform you can think of. Using most other engines would limit you to Win/Linux and possibly consoles.. IE is on Android and iOS - which are absolutely massive markets to tap into.

    I can see how a company of Beamdog's size would think using the IE for said reasons seems like a good option.

    And just to add, I think it really is a good option. It seems like an obvious choice to be honest.
    Just about every single relevant platform you can think of can run IE.
    Releasing a game without having limitless resources and massive PR support is difficult.. but it's a lot less difficult when your game looks quite alright and can be played on just about every single phone, tablet, pc and console there is.

    OrlonKronsteen
  • ATigersClawATigersClaw Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 158
    When I first started reading, I thought you are heading into a completely wrong direction @Khyron but the more I read, the more it makes sense.
    Maybe there is also a little wishful thinking since I love the IE games but who cares.

    I'm guessing it's either a completely new line of games or they decided to finish what's still missing: IWD II
    I know the source code is gone and IWD II followed another ruleset edition but maybe Beamdog goes for the IWD I ruleset edition and just uses the current assets to recreate IWD II.
    Like I said, it's a lot of wishful thinking.

    Allanon81
  • IseweinIsewein Member Posts: 376
    edited February 13
    Ah how I wish this to be true. SoD was a really decent game in its own right, I'd love to see more adventures like it.

    Post edited by Isewein on
    StummvonBordwehrAedan
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,940
    I'm really torn about this but I hope they give up on IE myself. Without the D&D setting it would have to be a spectacular setting to spark my interest. I really wanted to like PoEE, but I just didn't. Not really sure why. Maybe I'm just too old to embrace something radically different enough to evade the WotC IP...

  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    mlnevese wrote: »
    IE is hell to develop, debug or even mod. It's 20+ years engine. If Beamdog is working on anything it will be in a new engine, either developed by them or one of the commercial ones available.

    But why would they continue patching the EE games so extensively? All their current work is on the technical side. Some quest fixes, but it's very concentrated on either the engine itself and how it runs or spells and effects that cover all EE games.

    The EE games have had their time to shine and i am adamant they won't sell a single copy more with the effort they now put into it. They'll continue to get some sales as any game on the market does for years and years, but those sales would come regardless of a 2.6 or 2.7 patch.

    In a business sense i can't see a single good reason to keep patching the engine if you're not gonna use it for another game.

    Especially during a pandemic which is quickly leading us towards a major recession.

    They're hiring an Unreal Engine programmer, so I doubt they're going to make more games in Infinity Engine.

    Source.


    Doesn't matter if they'd hire ten people for a UE project, as they've probably got everything they need in-house for a new IE campaign.. at least on the technical side.

    ATigersClaw
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,816
    I'd love an IE engine game, but I find it unlikely. The Infinity Engine is pretty lousy by modern standards, and the EE only improves on it so much. There are just so many little things that the engine just doesn't support, and the nightmarish way it manages sprites would make it incredibly time-consuming just to create new animations. Siege of Dragonspear was about as complicated as you could make a game in the EE engine. Icewind Dale 2 went further in some ways than SoD did, but it did so in a very clumsy fashion. The engine is just really limiting, and trying to tack on new functionalities just isn't as practical as using a better engine.

    The Baldur's Gate saga is fun, but it wasn't the Infinity Engine that really made that happen.

    SkatanATigersClawTimbo0o0o0
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    edited February 13
    We'll see.

    I for one know of no other engine that will by now be:
    1: Free of charge
    2: They have massive experience and competence with
    3: Has an established mod and fan scene
    4: Seamlessly works on ALL relevant systems

    Yes, IE has it's limits.. it's over 20 years old.

    But if you're making a rpg of sorts that is supported on every system and perhaps especially so on tablets, then the IE is just fine.

    There are many rpg's out there now that run on engines that look and feel much inferior to IE, yet gain traction in the market and gets a decent amount of sales/downloads with in-app purchases.

    Vampire's Fall: Origins comes to mind..



    Beamdog could definitely make something better than this using the IE, and it would work on ALL systems.

    I'm waiting for someone to tell me why it makes sense to keeping patching the EE games, if it's not to improve the engine for further games.
    When was the last time you saw a company pour money and resources into several year old games that no longer have much of a position in the market?

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,297
    When they made siege of dragonspear they had a clear ambition to create more campaigns. I still have a description from Scott in my inbox dated March 6, 2016, barely a month before the official release of Siege.
    It describes on how campaign.2da was going to work in the future to enable mods and total conversions to run more easily in an integrated way next to the base game. You could make dedicated starting areas, movies and sound, etc.

    IseweinTimbo0o0o0
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,160
    Wizards of the Coast killed that.

    megamike15
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    But it does confirm that the technology supports it.

    It could be an entirely new IP.. or perhaps they've been given permission to create IWD 3.

    Or maybe it's Gorions story.. or it could be nothing at all.

    But anyone who can explain why it's a good idea to keep pouring money and resources into IE improvements if you're not gonna use it, are welcome to do so.

    And if this is simply not the case, then Beamdog could say so without further ado.

    Grond0
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,816
    To be fair, Beamdog has said that v2.6 will be the final patch for the EE engine.

    kanisathamegamike15
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    Except Galactygon has confirmed 2.7 will happen, as quoted in the first post.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • ATigersClawATigersClaw Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 158
    I think @JuliusBorisov also said so in one of his replies but I can't remember in which.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,229
    edited February 14
    Khyron wrote: »
    I'm waiting for someone to tell me why it makes sense to keeping patching the EE games, if it's not to improve the engine for further games.
    When was the last time you saw a company pour money and resources into several year old games that no longer have much of a position in the market?
    This part of what you say I totally agree with, and have asked this very same question myself again and again. But my personal take (sorry, not trying to upset anyone, but it is what it is) is that this is indeed just a case of really bad business acumen on the part of Beamdog's upper management. A LOT of what Beamdog has been doing (or not doing) in the past couple of years makes little or no sense from a business standpoint.

    Having said this, I would LOVE to be proven wrong by Beamdog demonstrating to me in the coming months that they do have a business plan they've been working on that actually makes sense.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,229
    edited February 14
    Khyron wrote: »
    Except Galactygon has confirmed 2.7 will happen, as quoted in the first post.
    Maybe Galactygon was mistaken. Maybe they don't know what they're talking about. Maybe it was old information that is no longer applicable.

    Post edited by kanisatha on
  • ATigersClawATigersClaw Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 158
    I don't think that people, especially Community Managers like @JuliusBorisov, would proclaim outdated or obsolete information.
    Whether or not they plan to go for another IE title, I really like their effort for further patching the current IE titles since they still are some true gems within the gaming world and deserve nothing less.
    I'd even start a little crowdfunding to gather some more money to let them tackle bigger tasks (e. g. redrawing the ugly sprites etc.).

  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    If I'm not mistaken, Galactygon is (one of) the guy(s) actually doing the work on these patches.

    So if he was gonna make 2.7, he'd know..

    kanisatha
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    Isn't it funny how Julius didn't comment on the speculation? Saying "Nope, don't get your hopes up were just wrapping up EE" would have been the humane thing to do if the speculation wasn't accurate, haha.

    But we'll see, eh?

    ATigersClawkanisathaLogiteks
  • IseweinIsewein Member Posts: 376
  • modestvoltamodestvolta Member Posts: 107
    Khyron wrote: »
    I'm waiting for someone to tell me why it makes sense to keeping patching the EE games, if it's not to improve the engine for further games.
    When was the last time you saw a company pour money and resources into several year old games that no longer have much of a position in the market?

    If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the 2.6 patch rewriting the engine for 64-bit (as opposed to the original 32-bit development)? Even if Beamdog doesn't plan on using IE in future games, a 64-bit application ensures the current games stay playable into the future if/when more operating systems require programs be 64-bit (e.g. again, if I'm not mistaken: MacOS no longer supports 32-bit applications).

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,725
    This is correct. MacOS indeed stopped supporting 32-bit applications so our games had to be updated to 64-bit fully. There are also similar problems on mobile (both Android and iOS), in terms of new hardware and operating systems.

    mlnevese
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 544
    Well.. there's a serious blow to hope haha.

    Let's nitpick on the ambiguity that he "thinks" it has been retired.. that's not an absolute statement.. 😂🤣

    OrlonKronsteenTimbo0o0o0Adam_en_tium
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,229
    Khyron wrote: »
    Isn't it funny how Julius didn't comment on the speculation? Saying "Nope, don't get your hopes up were just wrapping up EE" would have been the humane thing to do if the speculation wasn't accurate, haha.

    But we'll see, eh?

    I've been searching for one definite answer to address this thread. Here it is:

    Thanks for posting this @JuliusBorisov as I had not seen it before. And thanks to Trent Oster for driving that stake hard into the corpse of the IE, may it RIP.

    mlnevese
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