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A brief response to anger at and criticism of BGEE and BG2EE

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  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Regardless of whether or not we miss any bugs, it will at least have as many fixes as the FixPack (and probably a good deal more). That's all I mean.

    BG2EE doesn't have the same issue that BG1EE had; we aren't trying to shove everything into a new engine with a new file structure, we're just making sure that the engine works the way it's supposed to, touching up areas that need touching up, and adding boat-loads of new content (all of which has to be tested and polished).

    elminsteralnairAristilliusJonelethIrenicus
  • boudicaboudica Member Posts: 6
    will pick it up next summer on steam for $5. Hopefully by then it will be bug free and can add ascension to it.

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    I am pretty sure the original raging post was just a troll. Pretty much all he has done on this forum is rage and complain. If somebody truly hates BG EE, why the hell are they on they registered on the BG EE forum?! Some people defy belief... Why do they feel the need to wage some sort of crusade against a game?? Just play something else!

    I am a GoG user and there's some people pretty hostile to the whole concept of Enhanced Edition on that forum, but at least they have the decency to stay away from this community. lol

  • SirFrancealotSirFrancealot Member Posts: 56
    Haters gonna hate. You guys worked hard and released a good product. I for one am really looking forward to checking out BG2EE... actually, given the state of my affairs around the mid nov launch date you guys have specified... I wouldn't mind a slight delay. Got the following on then: my bday, 6 month milstone celebrations with GF, uni exams, job seeking and moving apartments. Wheeee

    so yea... it is not yet time for more.... expirements.... until late nov

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    CamDawg said:

    My brother--who loves BG and BG2, and who introduced all of my nephews to the games at a very early age--had never heard of mods, the modding community, and certainly not that his brother wasted countless hours fixing and tweaking the games. I still think he just plays with the official patches.

    Thank you, @CamDawg, that's an excellent example of the sort of buyer I'm talking about, whom I reckon is actually pretty representative of the sort of buyer Overhaul needs to attract. And that's in spite of his own brother being one of the world's most famous BG modders!

    elminsteralnairAristillius
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Shin said:

    So yes - if the idea of not having to bother with the fixpacks at launch day is all you're after and the future of the series doesn't really matter to you, I'd agree it'd be a wise move to just go with the GOG.com edition and use the fixes+mods.

    The problem I have with that argument is that there's no basis for your belief that the "future of the series" is what's at stake. There has never been any concrete discussion as to whether BG even has a future, let alone whether that future depends on the success of the Enhanced Editions. It's all speculation and wishful thinking - not something I'd factor into an actual decision.

  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 763
    CamDawg said:

    And that's in spite of his own brother being one of the world's most famous BG modders!

    Pfft. That and 50 cents will get me a cup of coffee. :)
    Not for a long time.

    DeejethroJonelethIrenicusCrevsDaak
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Kaeloree said:

    I originally wrote this in response to this thread by @Wraith_Sarevok, but when it hit the moderation queue it was automatically sunk, so I thought I would create a new thread to respond and bring up a few points.


    To put this in context, I was responding in part to @Shandyr, who made a very nice post I'll quote part of here:

    Shandyr said:


    And even worse yet they have to answer in a friendly manner like this:

    Kaeloree said:

    I'm just glad we've dealt with pretty much all of your issues up there, @Wraith_Sarevok. I hope you enjoy the game when it comes out. :)

    Because if they treated you the same way you treat them it would shine a very bad light on the company.

    I wonder what people would be more shocked about: Someone addressing the guys at Overhaul the way you do or if in fact someone from Overhaul would address you the same way you address them.

    My response:
    Kaeloree said:


    I don't have to answer politely, but I do, and that's because I totally understand.

    There is literally no accusation or criticism that can be levelled at us we have not already levelled at ourselves.

    Sure, it's not nice to read that somebody is upset because of something you've poured your blood, sweat and tears into, but at the end of the day, people are upset because they are passionate about Baldur's Gate, for the most part. And that is pretty awesome. You know what? We are too. I'd go so far as to say probably even more than most.

    I'd like to think we can address the issues with BGEE. We've done a lot towards that already. I'd like to think we've addressed them in BG2EE.

    I genuinely, honestly hope @Wraith_Sarevok enjoys BG2EE. I've personally spent a lot of time and care on it. So has the rest of our fantastic team, the majority of whom are modders and from the community. I'm really proud of what we've done. I hope it deals with the issues he has, and if it doesn't, I hope he lets us know how we can make it better.

    I'm sorry that BGEE has disappointed you, man. I hope we can do better in the future. And I hope you'll give BG2EE a shot and tell us what you think, whether you enjoy it or not.

    Loved BG:EE, so buying BG:EE 2 when it comes out....now I'm just waiting for IWD:EE 1-2, and then BG 3 and IWD 3.....please make these happen!!!!

    alnair
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,339
    @shawne Well first of all, factoring in things that you want to happen to a game series into a decision, when they seem possible or even likely, also speaks to how you feel about the series. To clarify though, I'm not suggesting that BG will be doomed without the EE:s - it's been kept alive for close to 15 years thanks to the efforts of the community (imo) and is likely to stay that way - but rather that the path forward lies with them.

    And by the path forward I don't mean release of BG3, but support for BGEE and BG2EE in the shape of new content and above all the capacity for mods to do what previously wasn't possible. If we imagine some kind of worst-case scenario where Overhaul officially stops producing content for the EE:s once BG2EE is out the door and working well, a number of changes and externalizations have already been made that does affect the series in terms of what is possible to do with it in the future. Monk kits for instance is an example of something that didn't exist earlier, and as for externalizations and enginge changes there's a list here courtesy of @CamDawg. To me, the things on that list are worth a lot more than e.g. not having to use a fixpack.

    That, and as said earlier as another aspect of being "the future", there is every indication that once existing mods are adapted to the EE:s, they will be the definitive version of BG. They will look better, be significantly more bug-free out of the box, contain a lot more professionally produced content, contain features not possible to bring to the original series even with mods, and as mentioned above be a lot more modifiable.

    mch202PadentonJuliusBorisovDexter
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,339
    CamDawg said:

    And that's in spite of his own brother being one of the world's most famous BG modders!

    Pfft. That and 50 cents will get me a cup of coffee. :)
    Haha, @Gallowglass has a point. For a BG fan that's akin to a football fan being the brother of Lionel Messi (or equivalent) and getting free tickets to all games and championships but deciding not to go.

    JuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • viaderviader Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 875
    edited September 2013
    Just fix problems with Polish version and release it official and I will be happy. Polish team hardly works, because we want have Polish version in day BGEE premiere, we done everything on time :(

    wojtek
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    Erg said:

    Troodon80 said:

    I know of some people who even refuse to install mods, no matter how good they are/might be, for fear that they may end up screwing the game up.

    Yep, that's called modphobia :D
    Always getting that confused with Quadrophenia.

    ErgCrevsDaak
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    RedGuard said:

    Erg said:

    Troodon80 said:

    I know of some people who even refuse to install mods, no matter how good they are/might be, for fear that they may end up screwing the game up.

    Yep, that's called modphobia :D
    Always getting that confused with Quadrophenia.
    Great, now you're making me look up words...

    ErgelminsterAristilliusCrevsDaak
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    Hint: It's a play on the word 'mod'. :P

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Shin said:

    @shawne Well first of all, factoring in things that you want to happen to a game series into a decision, when they seem possible or even likely, also speaks to how you feel about the series.

    And it seems possible/likely because...? I mean, do you know something I don't? Because I haven't heard anything at all about any future plans for either BG:EE or BG2:EE beyond the oft-promised "Adventure Y", the title of which seems to be the only thing anyone seems to know about it.
    Shin said:

    That, and as said earlier as another aspect of being "the future", there is every indication that once existing mods are adapted to the EE:s, they will be the definitive version of BG. They will look better, be significantly more bug-free out of the box, contain a lot more professionally produced content, contain features not possible to bring to the original series even with mods, and as mentioned above be a lot more modifiable.

    That's a very optimistic appraisal of future prospects - one which ignores the very simple fact that adapting existing mods to the EEs will be up to individual modders, some of whom may be unwilling or unable to do so. To take two of the most popular examples, BG1NPC and "Unfinished Business" are still incompatible with BG:EE; it may take just as long to get BG2 mods like "Ascension" working, to say nothing of the sizeable NPC archive.

    If those conditions could be met, I certainly agree that the EEs could become the definitive versions of the game... but they're not there now, and may not be for quite some time.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    BG2EE conversion is a lot simpler than BG1EE conversion.

    I'll tag @Kaeloree to explain the differences. :)

  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    You know... All this talk about the want of a bug free playing experience in BGEE & BG2EE remind me of my flawless bug free mega-mod installation using Big Picture and BGT that was certainly the definitive version of the game... Yes bug free... Didn't even need that pesky Beregost crash fixer...

    ...

    Oh hang on... THAT WAS A DREAM!

    elminsteralnairRnRClown
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Dee: Unless you're saying that BG2 mods can be applied at launch, that doesn't really change the reality of a waiting period for each one to be adapted to the EE. That wait may be shorter than it is for BG:EE, but then, there were many more mods for BG2 than BG1 anyway...

  • viaderviader Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 875
    @shawne There aren't any difficult mods to reported... Everything is easy, but someone must do it :P

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,339
    edited September 2013
    shawne said:

    Shin said:

    @shawne Well first of all, factoring in things that you want to happen to a game series into a decision, when they seem possible or even likely, also speaks to how you feel about the series.

    And it seems possible/likely because...? I mean, do you know something I don't? Because I haven't heard anything at all about any future plans for either BG:EE or BG2:EE beyond the oft-promised "Adventure Y", the title of which seems to be the only thing anyone seems to know about it.
    It seems possible/likely because several things have already happened. Like I mentioned in an earlier post in regards to the "future of the series", many externalizations and engine improvements have already been made. New content has already been produced. Like I also said earlier, even if Overhaul shuts down support the day after launch, the changes made so far will still have carried the series forward.
    shawne said:

    That's a very optimistic appraisal of future prospects - one which ignores the very simple fact that adapting existing mods to the EEs will be up to individual modders, some of whom may be unwilling or unable to do so. To take two of the most popular examples, BG1NPC and "Unfinished Business" are still incompatible with BG:EE; it may take just as long to get BG2 mods like "Ascension" working, to say nothing of the sizeable NPC archive.

    As others have pointed out, there are indications that mod conversion will be significantly easier for BG2:EE. Mods for BG2 content were as you probably know designed for BG2, whereas mods for BG1 content were in most cases designed for Tutu and/or BGT, with the ramifications that CamDawg mentions.


    elminsterJuliusBorisovtypo_tilly
  • gunmangunman Member Posts: 210
    edited September 2013
    There are some parts in BG2 that feels inferior to BG1, and one of them is pause in inventory screen. First, it makes combat much easier and unrealistic since you can pass inventory items at will between characters, and second it makes quick slots lose their importance, they are simply extra inventory slots for certain category of items. No longer you have to plan in advance what items you place in the quick slots. Looks like EE team just applied BG2 engine to BG1 without any thoughts about differences in game mechanics and pondering which to apply. It would have been nice to have at least the possibility to change mechanics settings in the options screen for things like this, and it would be professional to invest work hours in game mechanics instead of added content which doesn't even fit. My opinion, of course.

  • GaveGave Member Posts: 66
    edited September 2013
    I was personally quite impressed with BG:EE, well.... except the originally painful Durlags Tower that I think will stay broken for many reasons where Overhaul team is not involved.

    Sure, I see potential improvements, but that is mostly balancing out "not originally intended content" such as 'new' classes, gear, and whatnot.

    Of course, now I am not sure how high should I set my expectations with BG2:EE. ;)

  • ojthesimpsonojthesimpson Member Posts: 121
    I think they have done a stellar job with BGEE.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    gunman said:

    There are some parts in BG2 that feels inferior to BG1, and one of them is pause in inventory screen. First, it makes combat much easier and unrealistic since you can pass inventory items at will between characters, and second it makes quick slots lose their importance, they are simply extra inventory slots for certain category of items. No longer you have to plan in advance what items you place in the quick slots. Looks like EE team just applied BG2 engine to BG1 without any thoughts about differences in game mechanics and pondering which to apply. It would have been nice to have at least the possibility to change mechanics settings in the options screen for things like this, and it would be professional to invest work hours in game mechanics instead of added content which doesn't even fit. My opinion, of course.

    I just generally avoid this unless I knew what I was going to do and forget. I remember having to rush through that inventory because I am dying outside :)

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