Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Clara DLC/Patch. Spoilers inside.

1356710

Comments

  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    No..
    @Edvin - I actually asked my boyfriend if it were possible for Clara to remember Hexxat's memories, but he said it wouldn't be possible. She might have memories of being dominated if she makes her DC, but she wouldn't get Hexxat's memories.

    Diamondeye
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 936
    Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! (aka: I don't care)
    I don't think saving Clara is necessary (as others have mentioned, the story is effective as told).

    However...

    If you really must have her back, then the DLC quest starts with you carrying her body out of the crypt, getting it purified by a priest (to overcome the level drain she probably acquired being killed by a vampire), and then resurrecting her.

    You don't SAVE her at the moment of death, you save her by avenging her and then restoring her to life. If you're willing to jump through all of those hoops for a lackluster thief, then by all means, make the DLC and appease the people (obviously you can only get the Clara DLC if you own the Hexxat DLC). Don't be surprised if you're disappointed with Clara though. Sometimes people don't realize that what they want isn't actually what they want.

    booinyoureyesIllustair
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    No..
    @khyron

    If you want to develop a weak NPC, re-play BG1 or hope that Adventure Y is such a game. That isn't what BG is about. It isn't a poor storytelling method, but it's fundamentally against the nature of the BG series.

    Existing NPCs evolve, but they also mesh well into the Bhaalspawn saga and don't overshadow the protagonist. This is Charname's story, not the story of Clara, the scrappy young thief who got to travel with a demigod. The scope of each character's life is so opposed that it simply doesn't work in the context of the game.

    It's fine to mod something like that into the game if that suits your preferences, but it isn't what Beamdog should be working on. If we are to get new NPCs, they should be competent, true-to-form fantasy-setting badasses that are worthy of entering the Bhaalspawn saga. I want a cleric/thief priest of Mask whose investigation into a cult of Cyric leads them to cross paths with Charname. I want a displaced barbarian or skald from Icewind Dale enlist Charname's aid in hunting down the archmage who murdered his tribe. I want a Kensai to travel all the way across Faerun to challenge a demigod to a duel, only to be impressed by Charname's prowess and offer to join his or her party.

    These are the directions this game should go. Clara has no place here without extensive revision to her existing character, and that would undermine Hexxat's introduction.

  • yaballayaballa Member Posts: 41
    edited November 2013
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    @SapphireIce101 Clara is what, a 9th or 10th level Thief once you pick her up? In AD&D that is no small task. She might have been a commoner once but not anymore. As a veteran DM, I can imagine a couple of interesting scenarios for her background.

    * Her mentor was the same as Hexxat's and put them both to test.
    * She became infamous in her homeland and escaped to Athkatla, adopting a new name.
    * She's the girlfriend, sister, daughter, or a distant relative of a famous FR hero or a villain (Artemis Entreri, etc.)
    * She's from a different Prime Material Plane.
    * Her farm and family have been destroyed, her life's in danger and she needs help and security.
    * She's a female Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor.

    You get my drift, almost anything can be made out of her background.

    However, I see that in your eyes she still is a commoner and probably will remain one.

    booinyoureyesIllustair
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! (aka: I don't care)
    For real, no level 10 thief can possibly be a newb. However, I doubt the devs wanted her to be a master-burglar or something. The level was probably that high so you would actually take her in your party, not because of story-telling reasons. I may be wrong though.

    Regardless, it does open up a lot of background possibilities.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! (aka: I don't care)
    Maybe she was a farmer from Nalia's fiefdom, and hates Nalia's aunt and wants revenge?

    I'd take any excuse for a Good aligned character to brutally murder Nalia's aunt.

    Mrpenfold666FafnirNecomancer
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    No..
    @Yaballa

    I interpreted her high starting level as simply part of the ruse to set up the Hexxat twist. If you were forced to babysit a level 2 thief through Dragomir's Tomb, a) everyone would know something was obviously going to be twisty, and b) it would be a major chore to keep her alive.

    Your scenarios for how to make her more interesting could work, but they don't fit in the existing story without revision. And, as I mentioned above, she needs to be a semi-competent nobody for Hexxat's story to have the right effect. Hexxat doesn't dominate seasoned adventurers, she dominates random cattle and lets them draw the adventurers in.

  • yaballayaballa Member Posts: 41
    edited November 2013
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    @Madhax I saw what I saw. Clara's a higher level thief. Let's not metagame and think that she didn't deserve those levels. Inside the game world, she's an experienced thief. Outside of it, only the developers know. It would be cool if they would join the conversation and lift the fog.

    booinyoureyes
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    No..
    @Yaballa You're also considering her level in terms of AD&D, which isn't a perfect measurement for relative strength in the BG games. At level 10, the party is pretty weak for BG2. Level 10 is like average guard level. I really wouldn't read too far into the level they assigned her.

  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    No..
    @yaballa - I'm going to agree with Madhax on this one. I doubt she is a 10th level thief, if anything, it was Hexxat's domination that got her to her 10th level, because if you look at Hexxat's character sheet. Hexxat and Clara have the same amount in thief skills. So, basically, I think the only reason that Clara is what she is...is because of Hexxat.

    booinyoureyes
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,130
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.

    @Edvin - I actually asked my boyfriend if it were possible for Clara to remember Hexxat's memories, but he said it wouldn't be possible. She might have memories of being dominated if she makes her DC, but she wouldn't get Hexxat's memories.

    I dont know who your boyfriend is, but the control function so that the Hexxat suppressed part of Clare's consciousness, and partly dwell in her body ( Therefore, the user can not move ). If it was long enough, it is possible that she remained part of Hexxat strongest memories.

  • yaballayaballa Member Posts: 41
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    I'm not here to make anyone prefer Clara more than Hexxat. Developers should have predicted that some of us would not like their plan for Hexxat - Clara switching. There was no choice, it was forced upon us. She was a companion and that is especially tricky to handle. One does not mess around with CHARNAME's companions! Like ever! :D
    P.S. This reminds me of a certain controversial event in Final Fantasy VII

    booinyoureyes
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    edited November 2013
    No..
    @Edvin - Hes a DM like yaballa.

    Also, domination doesn't work like that. Hexxat isn't implanting her memories into Clara. Hexxat is more or less mind controlling Clara. If anything, its more like hypnosis, and Clara would not remember Hexxat dominating her, or what she was doing with Clara while she was dominated, unless she made her DC. At least that's what I understand of it.

    Also, I hope there are some DMs around that know how Vampire Domination works to somewhat correct me if I'm wrong...

  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,130
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    @Sapphirelce101
    You are wrong, Clara remembers everything.
    Line from game:

    Clara: "The Sleeper... she wakes! Mistress, I have done as you commanded—please let me live!"

  • yaballayaballa Member Posts: 41
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    I guess it would be similar as to how it works in 3.5 DnD

    Dominate (Su)

    A vampire can crush an opponent’s will just by looking onto his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the vampire’s influence as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet.

    Here's the spell

    Dominate Person
    Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 5
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Target: One humanoid
    Duration: One day/level
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject’s mind.

    If you and the subject have a common language, you can generally force the subject to perform as you desire, within the limits of its abilities. If no common language exists, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “Come here,” “Go there,” “Fight,” and “Stand still.” You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.

    Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject’s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

    Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action.

    By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can’t communicate with you. You can’t actually see through the subject’s eyes, so it’s not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what’s going on.

    Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.

    If you don’t spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination.

    Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect neither prevents the establishment of domination nor dispels it.

    SapphireIce101booinyoureyes
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    edited November 2013
    No..
    Edvin said:

    @Sapphirelce101
    You are wrong, Clara remembers everything.
    Line from game:

    Clara: "The Sleeper... she wakes! Mistress, I have done as you commanded—please let me live!"

    That line is questionable, because she still speaks with the same monotone voice that she had the whole time. She also uses the word 'Mistress', and doesn't call Hexxat directly by name. I wouldn't be surprised if Clara was still dominated when Hexxat bit her.

    Also, thanks @yaballa.

  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 467
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    Wahey, this poll/thread has created a lot of buzz. Means people have oppinions about it, which is good!

    All these discussions about meta-knowledge surrounding Clara is quite intruiging as well, I do enjoy reading all these different ideas about this and that.

    No doubt the Devs have seen it and are well aware. I wonder if their silence on the topic so far is that they're currently concidering it and thus don't want to accidentaly give out false information?
    Pure speculation! But certainly an entertaining thought.

    Keep the oppinions comming! For better or worse, every vote and every post could help the Dev's gauge if this is something they should do or not. :D

    Or they could be disregarding it completely.. I guess some words from them could clarafy ( xD ) the situation for us.

  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,130
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    Khyron said:

    No doubt the Devs have seen it and are well aware. I wonder if their silence on the topic so far is that they're currently concidering it and thus don't want to accidentaly give out false information? Keep the oppinions comming! For better or worse, every vote and every post could help the Dev's gauge if this is something they should do or not. :D

    You are very naive :D
    Dev's dont add things according as how they are popular.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/201/add-drow-dark-elf-race#latest

    This topic is nearly year and a half old. 470 Replies 33 407 Wiews. Most popular topic in Feature Requests.
    Do you see any Drow in character creation ? :D

    SapphireIce101
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    edited November 2013
    No..
    Well, at the time it seemed rather time consuming to put in a drow race, but that's a whole other discussion.

    I still think the player should save Clara, and then better her life. Who knows, maybe around chapter 6 her life is really good, that her dream comes true, and she becomes an actress.

    If they do decide to make her a follower, CHARNAME could still save her, better her life, and maybe she becomes a bard after Actor Coach Haer'dalis is done with her, of course this would be around Chapter 3ish, before leaving for Spellhold. :P

  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,130
    edited November 2013
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    @Sapphirelce101
    Finally we agree on something.
    Drow should be on the first place :D

    Anyway, I agree with any changes in Clara profession.

    Bard is not too much useful class. I would suggest Swashbuckler or Shadowdancer.
    ( But rather Swashbuckler It is more suited to her character )

  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    No..
    Bards are plenty useful. It all depends on the kit you pick. I think someone actually soloed both games with a bard.

    Personally, if Clara were to be a bard, I would think she would make a decent Blade or Skald, and bard actually kind of lines up the actress ambition that she had. Like I said, just give her a good acting coach like Haer'Dalis or a bard charname, and she'll be good. Also, change her stats around so then she could be a useful bard.

    Heck, if Charname is a bard, and Clara isn't a follower, she could have a part in the play that Charname has to do, as long as she gets an acting coach anyway.

    booinyoureyes
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,130
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    @Sapphirelce101
    " Raised on a farm, came to Athkatla to be an actress. Ended up working on her back until an old thief took pity on her and taught her the craft. She wasn't bad at it, either. Not great, but passably skilled. "

    Already been said that Clara IS a thief.
    Now we can only choose kit.

  • FafnirFafnir Member Posts: 232
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    There will never be an official Clara DLC, because it's impossible to advertise without spoiling the Hexxat twist.
    And no, Clara can't get her memories. That's not how domination works.

    booinyoureyes
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,130
    edited November 2013
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    Fafnir said:

    There will never be an official Clara DLC, because it's impossible to advertise without spoiling the Hexxat twist.

    I think you meant to say that it will never be officially announced official Clara DLC :D
    ( Something like Baeloth NPC in BG1 or Wilson in BG2 )
    Fafnir said:

    And no, Clara can't get her memories. That's not how domination works.

    Anyway, it doesn't matter. If we take Casque of Dragomir from Hexxat corpse, "L" messenger can contact us instead Hexxat.

    booinyoureyes
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    No..
    Yes, but there are already three good/neutral aligned thieves in the game. The only thief that Clara would beat would be Nalia, because her thief skills aren't allocated right. Clara would be redundant to a good/neutral party because two other thieves already beat her out, and she can't dual-class into something else to make her more useful.

    This is why I say Clara, if she is to be a follower, should under go acting lessons, and become a bard. She can still pickpocket, cast magic, and sing bard songs. This way she isn't competing with Imoen or Jan when it comes to the thief spot, because she does something different from the two of them.

    As for the Casque of Dragomir, that isn't supposed to come off of Hexxat, even if she dies. I think its a complete and total bug when people get that when you kick her from the party. Also, if I were L, I would be more inclined to kill the person who killed my top thief, rather than work with them. Also, L's messenger knows what Hexxat looks like, and Clara looks nothing like Hexxat.

  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    Hard not choose 'elderberries' but, yeah, I'd like either a patch or a DLC.

    The only option good parties have for an 'active' thief, with access to the high level thief abilities is Jan. I think Jan is hilarious but nobody writes his dialogue as well as the original author did. Besides, new is interested.

    I suspect that the dev's decision to make her an actress was deliberate -- she can take over Hexxat's quests by pretending to be Hexxat.

    " {clara] . . . When Hexxat used the casque to open a window to my mind I was also able to look inside hers. I think that's why she wanted to me to die -- I knew Hexxat better than she knew herself. I can do it, I can pull this off, I'm ready to play the role of my life.

    {charname} Or your death. Hmm. Even if you could pull it off, why would you want to?

    {clara} Hexxat was a victim herself. Her employer manipulated her into manipulating me. While I'll never forgive her for making me dance, I know someone else was was calling the tune. We've killed the puppeteer -- now I want to find the author of this play. Will you help me?

    {charname} Maybe, but don't you need to be dead to use the casque?

    {clara} the casque needs to think you are dead. I have a ring that makes you look like a zombie, perhaps it can be modified to make me look like a vampire

    {neera} I know just the person. This could work. Or it could turn us all into bats. You never really know with wild magic"




    EdvinLoReN_LK
  • FredjoFredjo Member Posts: 477
    edited November 2013
    No..
    I wonder how many would vote Yes if Clara had the portrait of Faldorn. Also her voice set is pretty much composed of: "I'm so confused...", "If you...think so" and "Plz I don't wanna die kthx" so I don't really understand the hype about her "character" when there's IMO none to begin with.

    AcridSyphilis
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    No..
    If Clara is going to be a follower, I'd rather she not use Hexxat's quests. You killed Hexxat, you shouldn't get access to her quests because Clara was dominated by her. That should be the consequence.

    Clara should have her own set of quests.

    That being said, I rather save her and not have her be a follower at all. So, I'm still going with the idea of Save Clara, and make her life better.

    booinyoureyesSirrion
  • SirrionSirrion Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2013
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    I'd like an option to save Clara and have her as a proper party member. When i picked her up and went to the tomb, i went to help her, and not Hexxat. Naturally, the way the game took control away from me, killed my party member, and offered me the killer as a new party member instead, was pretty annoying and left me disliking Hexxat more than i otherwise would have, through no fault of the character herself.

    To me this is the core of the issue, i picked Clara up thinking she was in fact Hexxat, that i would get to keep her in the party, and eventually learn more about her, but then by the end of the quest a very thematically different character kills her off, and you get the option of having the new character join you instead. It left me with a "this isnt what i signed up for" kind of feeling, and i think a lot of people feel the same way; they are the people now trying to actually get what the game "promised".

    I agree that Clara's character is not actually the greatest character ever to be written, but why does it have to be? That is nothing but a strawman people around here keep using. If people like her, that is the way it is, and all thats left to do is count the votes and decide if there is reason enough to spend time on the matter. Just give your vote, your reason, and move on, dont try to convince everyone else that you are right and they are wrong, this isnt a matter of logic, but of opinion, and thats all. This isnt aimed and anyone in particular, just me ranting a bit.

    I found her interesting, was looking forward to finding out more about her, and didnt like the real Hexxat any particular amount (though under different circumstances i certainly might have), and because of that, i am certainly not against Clara becoming a full and proper party member.

    Post edited by Sirrion on
    yaballa
  • KhyronKhyron Member Posts: 467
    Yes, I would like to see Clara as a proper NPC.
    Edvin said:

    Khyron said:

    No doubt the Devs have seen it and are well aware. I wonder if their silence on the topic so far is that they're currently concidering it and thus don't want to accidentaly give out false information? Keep the oppinions comming! For better or worse, every vote and every post could help the Dev's gauge if this is something they should do or not. :D

    You are very naive :D
    Dev's dont add things according as how they are popular.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/201/add-drow-dark-elf-race#latest

    This topic is nearly year and a half old. 470 Replies 33 407 Wiews. Most popular topic in Feature Requests.
    Do you see any Drow in character creation ? :D
    Don't be so uptight >.<

    The post is ment as more of a humor thing than a big ol' serious thing.

    Even so, if we're nitpicking.. if 99% of lets say 200 votes said no, I doubt there'd be much chance of it ever happening.

Sign In or Register to comment.