Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

[MOD] -Scales of Balance- a post-hac tweak mod

1242527293084

Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    edited May 2015
    Here's a question: if I'm going to tackle Magic Resistance, what about other kinds of (lower case) resistance to magic?

    Specifically I'm thinking about Rakshasa. Lore has them being bloodthirsty, man-eating savages from Hindu myths. They are shapechangers and powerful magicians. No discussion of them in general mythology contains any reference to special defenses. 2E gives them immunity to all magic below 8th level, but I can't see where that came from. And in later editions (3E, D20, Pathfinder etc.) that immunity seems to have disappeared.

    So, should I also remove Rakshasas' magic immunity and replace it with something else? (Automatic saves or something like that.)

    The same question would apply to liches, but their immunity seems more reasonable, since they are supremely powerful magical beings. But the idea that Rakshasa have *stronger* magical immunity than liches seems kind of ridiculous.

    Thoughts?

  • DarkersunDarkersun Member Posts: 397
    I always disliked the "I immune to level x or lower" mechanic.
    That type of monsters should have high saves and use spells to protect them self.

    The same is for magic resistance. If something is magical (for example magic missile) and you are resistant to magic, MR should protect you. But when you the target of a fireball that should work, because the damage comes from fire not from magic.

    To come back to the topic, a fireball should be able to hurt Rakshasas and Liches, but as powerful magic users, they should be able to cast the spells (or have items) to protect them from the fireball.

    At least that is my opinion.


    About the things you are doing for 3.0:
    - More config options are always nice
    - can't wait to see and use the new wizard kits
    (in my BG 1&2 run, almost done with IWD, had not much free time lately)
    - will you list the "Slightly improved various existing kits" changes?
    - Spellbender sounds fun, what does the kit do?
    - I'm very interested on the Wizard Slayer dual class kit (please give a sneak peak)

    It's sad that you need to redo you "Proficiency Overhaul", but the new one sounds less complicated and less buggy ;) I approve it very much.

    Again, thanks for doing this awesome mod. I have a lot of fun with it in IWD!

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    edited May 2015
    Re: Rakshasas, I agree completely, the only stumbling block is seeing whether changing them will screw up SCS AI (They love to drop Cloudkill and Fireballs around themselves because they know they are immune... take away the immunity and they will either a) commit suicide, or b) react intelligently and stop casting those spells. It depends on whether SCS applies their AI scripts in a dynamic or a static way. I'm investigating.
    Darkersun said:

    - will you list the "Slightly improved various existing kits" changes?

    I figured out how to make permanent luck bonuses that don't crash the game, so they get applied to the priest of Tymora, the Gallant, the Corsair and the Misadventurer. I'm giving sn innate Find Traps spell to Loremasters and automatically populating their spellbook with certain Divination spells. I may or may not revamp the Mage Hunter's special abilities. I may or may not revamp the Inquisitor's special abilities. (I'm trying to create a Breach-on-hit effect.)

    I've turned my revised Avenger into a new Elementalist kit. (Still looking for a water/ice shapechange form that will work across all games, haven't found one yet.) I'm reverting the Avenger back to a poison/nature corrupted theme, with shapechanges into small spider/giant spider/wyvern/giant troll. The base druid class gets wolf/dire wolf/rat/lion/cave bear. The small spider and rat forms have at-will Improved Invisibility. (I want to give druids' shapechange forms some use other than temporary tanking.)
    Darkersun said:

    - Spellbender sounds fun, what does the kit do?

    You get a 2nd-level wizard that works kind of like NRD, letting you cast one of 8 1st-level cleric spells; and a 2nd-level cleric spell that lets you cast one of 8 1st-level wizard spells. Also 3rd-level spells that let you cast 2nd-level spells of the other type, etc. up to 7th-level spells to cast 6th-level spells of the other type. (No improvisational casting of spells level 7 or higher.) So, you can play like a normal cleric/mage, or you can memorize the improvisational spells and cast like a sorcerer... but with less powerful spells to choose from. You can go into some encounters using all your slots for divine magic, or using them all for arcane magic. Basically you can trade some power in exchange for extreme flexibility.
    Darkersun said:

    - I'm very interested on the Wizard Slayer dual class kit (please give a sneak peak)

    Well it's really for multi, not dual. But it's just a fighter kit, with no MR and no item restrictions. You lose access to GM, and in exchange you get progressively better saving throw bonuses (at epic levels you'll almost never fail a save); permanent miscast magic on hit (40% for 7 seconds); and a nonmagical vocal Shout ability that can mess with people's eardrums, causing deafness (and thus 50% miscast) to all within 30 feet.

    The multiclass twist is simply adding a special Tome that will allow a fighter/thief to take this kit for their fighter half. I always figured the ideal magic-hating character is a fighter/thief, since it combines all of the non-magical skills and abilities available, allowing you to fight wizards with skill and ingenuity: traps, stealth, and martial techniques. I always used mod Valygar to be a F/T instead of Stalker (you hate wizards, so you cast wizards spells? what?). Btw Valygar is s *beast* as a F/T. I'll add an option to kit him as the new multiclass Wizard Slayer...

    EDIT - one more thing, I've always hated the way vampire level drain works - it's super annoying, so you give someone one of the immunity items and then vamps turn into little kittens... that's no fun. So as part of the saving throw standardization that will give all necromantic spell effects a save vs. death, I'll edit vamp level drain to allow a save vs. death. And I'll give the Death Ward spell a big bonus to saves vs. death, maybe +5. So now you can use Death Ward to help you fight undead (makes sense, right?) instead of stupid NPP. I hate NPP. Also this will make Gallants fairly effective against Necromancers and undead. It's like a child's storybook hero kit!

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 674
    edited May 2015
    Sorry this was just a lightly trollish joke of mine, I was planning on editing it much earlier but I forgot about it.

    Enjoyed the revised mage kits you have planned, look forward to trying those.

    Post edited by batoor on
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    edited May 2015
    I don't think it is a good idea to completely give up on your previous design of the proficiency system. There were some very nice elements to it. I propose that you organize it in this way:

    - Characters start at proficiency zero. They receive more pips than normally, but can only assign 1 point in any group in the beginning.
    - Fighters could for instance start with 8 pips, while paladins and rangers start with 6 pips, priests and rogues 4 and mages 3.
    - Keep the 4 pip maximum and APR from pips.
    - Let Clerics be able to put pips in more weapons like long sword, axes, daggers and so on.
    - Allow rogues and priests to assign two pips in any weapon they can use, and three pips in their speciality depending on the kit.
    - Allow Clerics to assign three pips to their Favoured Weapon.
    - Warriors gain a new pip every 3rd level, priests and rogues every fourth.
    - Mages can't advance in weapon use beyond level 1.
    - Do away with scripts that add proficiency points.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    edited May 2015
    Most of that is precisely what I'm doing, except:
    Ardul said:

    - Keep the 4 pip maximum

    I think I'm going back to 5-pip maximum. Fighters will advance every other level, so by 20th level they can get GM in two weapons plus put two pips into styles. Non-kensai fighter kits (Berserkers, Wizard Slayers, Corsairs) will max out at high mastery (4 pips). Rangers and paladins will also max out at high mastery, but will only gain one point every 3 levels so they will get there more slowly. Rogues will max out at mastery (3 pips), gaining one point every 3 levels. Druids and clerics will max out at mastery as well, but only gain one point each 5 levels. Wizards will never advance past basic proficiency.

    I'm also trying something experimental: currently, you can dual from fighter at level 2, and then use the proficiency points gained for your new class's advancement to add more pips up to grandmastery, the fighter's limit. This is a bug. Any future advancement in weapon proficiency is not supposed to exceed your current class's limit. So, I am going to try to limit Fighter>x dual classes to mastery (3 pips) with any future advancement. (If you already reach GM in a weapon before dual-classing, you will keep that.)

    ArdulDarkersun
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    edited May 2015
    What is the idea behind APR from pips kicking in later? And why is the APR from 3 pips given much later than the one from 4 pips?

    What I think is a bit sad about going away from a 4 pip system is, that it removes some of the uniqueness of e.g. assassins and skalds getting mastery. Even if they are getting High Mastery in selected weapons now instead, it is more expensive and will take them much longer time to reach.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    Ah, but they will have more pips to spend - base + 6 vs. base + 4, at 18th level.

    As I've been playing with the 2.9 prof system, Warriors get 1 pip per 3 levels and rogues 1 per 4 levels. But, I'm still finding myself metagaming, there aren't enough pips to go around. So I want to give more pips, but that means making the tables a bit longer. I haven't play tested yet - just last night got the new system to install correctly - so I'll see how it goes.

    The delayed apr from Mastery is standing in for warriors extra level-based apr.

    So, fighters will get 2 pips, and 3/2 apr, at 2nd level. They can get 4 pips, and 2 apr, at 7th level. They can get GM at 8th but the extra apr don't kick in til 12 so maybe you spend pips elsewhere instead. They hit 5/2 apr with GM at 12, and then at 15 the extra apr kicks in for all weapons with Mastery, giving them 3 apr total.

    Rangers/paladins can specialize at level 3 for 3/2 apr. They can't reach high mastery til level 9, so they can get 2 apr a bit later than fighters. (Maybe rangers put that point into TWF instead.) Then at level 15 the mastery bonus kicks in, giving them 5/2 max. Assassins, Skalds, and Swashbucklers will be the same.

    Rogues can also specialize by level 3 for 3/2 apr, but that's the best they can do until level 15 when the Mastery bonus kicks in. They will max out at 2 apr and will spend their pips on more/different weapons and styles.

    Clerics can only specialize - in this system rogues are decent damage dealers, kind of glass cannons, where clerics are Spellcasting tanks, durable but not meant for melee. The exception is kitted clerics, who can reach Mastery with their deity's favored weapon.

    The delayed mastery bonus keeps all those numbers where they are. If the bonuses kicked in linearly then weaker classes like rogues would be too powerful too early - identical to fighters! - and then plateau. Here they will trail warriors but still have room to improve at epic levels.

    Ardul
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    edited May 2015
    Thank you @subtledoctor for the detailed explanation. It makes a lot of sense, and I am looking forward to playtesting it. I think collapsing some weapon groups will make the shortage of pips, that I also find very noticeable in vanilla, less of a problem. It is too bad you have to give pips at constant intervals, and can't add in an extra one here and there. It might be a bit power-gamey, but I lean towards that I would rather have too many than too few pips.

    I really hope that you can fix the bug with advancing beyond your current class limit in a weapon, if you dual from a fighter. I have always hated that and it is one of the major reasons for why I don't dual.

    A few more questions :)
    - Will Clerics be able to specialize in e.g. axes, or are they limited to blunt weapons? I really like having them being able to use weapons like axes, long swords, bastards swords and so on.. Giving Mastery to Clerics chosen weapon is a great idea.
    - Could you write a bit about your changes to mages?
    - How do you deal with multiclasses? Can a fighter/thief get grandmastery, high-mastery or mastery? What about a fighter/cleric or a fighter/mage?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    Ardul said:

    It might be a bit power-gamey, but I lean towards that I would rather have too many than too few pips.

    Right. I rather think of this as a convenience tweak than a powergamey/cheaty thing. Point is, you shouldn't have to plan your guy from Candlekeep around that one weapon you know is in the bottom of Warcher's Keep. You're incentivized to spread your pips more widely, meaning you can pick up and use a cool morning star mid-way through even if you've focused on long swords up to that point. (Using the Item Randomizer mod is very much in my mind here.)

    Having lots of pips won't be overpowered as long as the result keeps you on roughly the same power trajectory over the course of the game. That's what I'm trying to do with those weird delayed apr bonuses.
    Ardul said:

    I really hope that you can fix the bug with advancing beyond your current class limit in a weapon, if you dual from a fighter. I have always hated that and it is one of the major reasons for why I don't dual.

    :smiley: I'm testing it this week. I think it should work (not for mod kits, though :( ). Some people might hate losing this cheese but I'll have an .ini setting to skip it.

    It's not my preferred way to deal with dual-classing... I need help from the devs for that:
    http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/640975/#Comment_640975
    Ardul said:

    - Will Clerics be able to specialize in e.g. axes, or are they limited to blunt weapons? I really like having them being able to use weapons like axes, long swords, bastards swords and so on.. Giving Mastery to Clerics chosen weapon is a great idea.

    Right now, my thinking is clerics can only put points into traditional cleric weapons, but they'll get points in their favored weapon for free. (Specialization at 4th level, Mastery at 9th.)

    The idea is, by choosing to be a single-class cleric you've already decided you are not going to be focused on weapon use. If you want to be a fighting cleric, you can be a fighter/cleric - they can put points into any weapon. The trade-off is slower advancement as a cleric, but I think that's a *good* trade-off.
    Ardul said:

    - Could you write a bit about your changes to mages?

    Revised specialists are discussed here:
    http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/637239/#Comment_637239
    Ardul said:

    - How do you deal with multiclasses? Can a fighter/thief get grandmastery, high-mastery or mastery? What about a fighter/cleric or a fighter/mage?

    I'm not at my computer, but I think that:
    - fighter/x and cleric/rangers = 4 pips max
    - thief/mage and cleric/thief = 3 pips max
    - cleric/mage = 2 pips max

    4 is a lot for fighter MCs, but it actually reflects vanilla behavior (1/2 fewer apr than fighters) and the slower rate of advancement should balance things.

    While I'm here, I should let people know that I think the MR tweaks are going to get cut from the 3.0 release. Changing all the items is going to take forever and my free time is drying up *very* quickly, and I want to get the rest of 3.0 out the door because it contains a lot of improvements over 2.9, including some important bug-fixes. My Gladiator kit is also getting cut, I don't have enough time to test its main ability. :(

    Ardul
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    Aside from TnB, what other mods do you think mesh well with the 3.0 version of your SoB mod?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    edited May 2015
    Spell Revisions, Spell Revisions, Spell Revisions. Demi needs to release SRv4 because I basically do all my testing with SR pre-installed. Monster Summoning, proper True Sight and NonDetection... the 3.0 specialist kit revisions are only a shadow of their true potential if you don't pair them with SR.

    Also Item Revisions. SCS for AI, Refinements for HLAs... other kit mods too. I have code that specifically looks for and adds options for Divine Remix, Faerunian Monastic Orders, and Frosty Journey.

    Btw I keep a 'to-do list' text file on my phone, I tick things off as I complete them. I have it all the way back to v0.2 from last year when this mod had nothing but druid shapechanges. The move from 2.9 to 3.0 probably won't seem too drastic to players, a couple more options and some refinements. But to give a sense of the work put into it, here is the to-do list for the jump from 1.6 to 2.0 back in December:
    - fix IWD druid kit desc strings.........../
    - fix prof strings via weapprof............/
    - compatibility with FMO..................../
    - compatibility with TnB...................../
    - innate sequencers.........................../
    - magic battle innates......................../
    - remove Deflect/Thrust scrolls........../
    - edit spell protections......................./
    -- edit scrolls accordingly................../
    - edit spell attacks............................../
    -- edit scrolls accordingly................../
    - reorganize components.................../
    - fix readme......................................../
    - fix github........................................../

    - put out v2........................................./

    And here is the current to-do list for the jump from 2.9 to 3.0:
    - all files lower-case in .tp2................/
    - all components = .tpa files............../
    - fix NPC kit assignments................../
    - re-do the whole prof. overhaul......../
    -- change base component............../
    -- change descriptions....................../
    -- change warrior kits......................../
    -- change rogue kits........................../
    -- change cleric kits........................../
    -- change druid kits........................../
    -- change base/mod NPCs.............../
    -- add DC fighter kit........................../
    -- add DC ranger kit........................../
    -- change NPC components........
    - re-tweak druid shapechanges........./
    -- druid = wolf, rat, lion, bear............/
    -- avenger = spider, wyvern, troll....../
    -- add elementalist kit......................./
    -- negative resists to spider, rat......../
    -- auto-invis for small spider, rat......./
    - kensai into warrior tweaks.............../
    - monks to separate component......./
    - make saving throw component......./
    -- save bonus with death ward........./
    -- vamp drain = save vs. death........./
    -- other undead = save vs. death..../?
    - fix boon of lathander......................../
    - fix lore bonuses.............................../
    - fix permanent luck effect................./
    - luck bonus for Luckriders................/
    - luck bonus for Swashies................../
    - luck bonus for Corsairs..................../
    - luck bonus for Gallants..................../
    - luck bonus for Misadventurers......../
    - change Loremaster description......./
    - Find Traps for Loremaster................/
    - divinations for Loremaster.............../
    - extra spells for Loremaster............../
    - add spellbender kit........................../
    -- make spells & .2da files................./
    -- add kit & files................................./
    -- add descriptions............................/
    - remake Wizard Slayer....................../
    -- w/ save bonuses.........................../
    -- w/ Shout/Deafness......................../
    -- w/ miscast on melee...................../
    -- make abilities bypass MR............./
    -- add fighter /thief option................./
    -- edit descriptions............................/
    ... Tweak wizard kits:
    - separate crafting component........../
    - *no opposition schools*.................../
    - fix xx_list_sr for MS spells.............../
    - replace planetar w/ elemental........../
    - planetar instead of deva at lvl 30...../
    Diviner = ............................................/
    -- innate Contingency......................../
    -- at 11th lvl, load 2 spells................./
    -- luck bonus...................................../
    -- lore bonuses................................../
    -- backstab immunity......................../
    -- add divination spells in CLAB......./
    Invoker = .........................................../
    -- + fire/elec/cold/magic damage...../
    -- add invocation spells in CLAB....../
    Illusionist = ......................................../
    -- Sanctuary, more priest spells......../
    -- permanent SR NonDetection......../
    -- block nondetection scroll use......./
    - give illusionist Shadow Step............/
    -- add illusion spells in CLAB............/
    Transmuter = ...................................../
    -- regeneration spells......................../
    -- brew potions................................./
    -- Form Stability................................/
    -- add alteration spells in CLAB......../
    Abjurer = ............................................/
    -- .EFF for auto Spell Shield............../
    -- separate spells for non-EE............/
    -- block scrolls usability..................../
    -- unblock scroll use!......................../
    -- add abjuration spells in CLAB......./
    Enchanter = ......................................./
    -- Charm/Sleep immunity................../
    -- Aura of save vs. spell penalty......../
    -- craft wands..................................../
    -- add enchant spells in CLAB........../
    Conjurer = ........................................./
    -- non-SR: MS I-III as innates.........../
    -- SR summons, 1 level lower.........../
    -- block scrolls usability..................../
    -- unblock scroll use!......................../
    -- add conjuration spells in CLAB...../
    Necromancer = ................................./
    -- sole access to Necromancy........../
    -- innate Touch spells......................../
    -- add necro spells in CLAB............../
    - improve Larloch's Drain................../
    - improve Ray of Enfeeblement........./
    - remove Anticipation cantrip............./
    - improve Bedazzle cantrip................/
    - improve Stiffen Bones cantrip........./
    - improve Protective Shell cantrip....../
    - improve Earthen Grasp cantrip......../
    - nerf Edwin's necklace....................../
    - use kreso's tweak for Deflections..../
    ... .ini options:
    - warriors: kits_no_tweaks................./
    - warriors: replace_wizard_slayer......./
    - warriors: change_kensai................../
    - rogues: thieves_no_bards................/
    - rogues: bards_no_thieves................/
    - divines: paladin_names_only.........../
    - wizards: spell_battle_changes........./
    ... from testing:
    - fix necromancer hand BAMs.........../
    - fix equipped prof for shambler........./
    - give natural form for shambler........./
    - improve fire elemental form............./
    - fix giant spider form........................./
    - no extra spells for Bladesinger....../?
    - add Valygar = F/T Wiz Slayer.........../
    - add Nalia = Spellbender..............
    - rbarb gets Quickstride if present...
    - use barb rage for berserker..........
    -- no Maze/Drain immunity........
    -- +1/2 APR.............................
    -- disable spellcasting.............
    -- save vs. breath penalty.........
    - test backstab immunity on TOB...
    -- give to rbarb if works.................
    - SR animal summons to Meister....
    - SR animal summons to Baervan...
    - reduced spells for Harrier............
    - test Bladesinger..........................
    -- fix d5_blad1.............................
    - test Spellbender..........................
    - update readme...........................
    -- prof overhaul...........................
    -- warrior tweaks.........................
    -- rogue tweaks..........................
    -- cleric restricted spells.............
    -- druid tweaks...........................
    -- wizard tweaks.........................

    - put out v3.0...................................

    The earlier one isn't as specific so it's not quite apples-to-apples... but even so, it's just a massive difference.

    Ardul
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371

    Spell Revisions, Spell Revisions, Spell Revisions. Demi needs to release SRv4 because I basically do all my testing with SR pre-installed. Monster Summoning, proper True Sight and NonDetection... the 3.0 specialist kit revisions are only a shadow of their true potential if you don't pair them with SR.

    Also Item Revisions. SCS for AI, Refinements for HLAs... other kit mods too. I have code that specifically looks for and adds options for Divine Remix, Faerunian Monastic Orders, and Frosty Journey.

    Btw I keep a 'to-do list' text file on my phone, I tick things off as I complete them. I have it all the way back to v0.2 from last year when this mod had nothing but druid shapechanges. The move from 2.9 to 3.0 probably won't seem too drastic to players, a couple more options and some refinements. But to give a sense of the work put into it, here is the to-do list for the jump from 1.6 to 2.0 back in December:

    - fix IWD druid kit desc strings.........../
    - fix prof strings via weapprof............/
    - compatibility with FMO..................../
    - compatibility with TnB...................../
    - innate sequencers.........................../
    - magic battle innates......................../
    - remove Deflect/Thrust scrolls........../
    - edit spell protections......................./
    -- edit scrolls accordingly................../
    - edit spell attacks............................../
    -- edit scrolls accordingly................../
    - reorganize components.................../
    - fix readme......................................../
    - fix github........................................../

    - put out v2........................................./

    And here is the current to-do list for the jump from 2.9 to 3.0:
    - all files lower-case in .tp2................/
    - all components = .tpa files............../
    - fix NPC kit assignments................../
    - re-do the whole prof. overhaul......../
    -- change base component............../
    -- change descriptions....................../
    -- change warrior kits......................../
    -- change rogue kits........................../
    -- change cleric kits........................../
    -- change druid kits........................../
    -- change base/mod NPCs.............../
    -- add DC fighter kit........................../
    -- add DC ranger kit........................../
    -- change NPC components........
    - re-tweak druid shapechanges........./
    -- druid = wolf, rat, lion, bear............/
    -- avenger = spider, wyvern, troll....../
    -- add elementalist kit......................./
    -- negative resists to spider, rat......../
    -- auto-invis for small spider, rat......./
    - kensai into warrior tweaks.............../
    - monks to separate component......./
    - make saving throw component......./
    -- save bonus with death ward........./
    -- vamp drain = save vs. death........./
    -- other undead = save vs. death..../?
    - fix boon of lathander......................../
    - fix lore bonuses.............................../
    - fix permanent luck effect................./
    - luck bonus for Luckriders................/
    - luck bonus for Swashies................../
    - luck bonus for Corsairs..................../
    - luck bonus for Gallants..................../
    - luck bonus for Misadventurers......../
    - change Loremaster description......./
    - Find Traps for Loremaster................/
    - divinations for Loremaster.............../
    - extra spells for Loremaster............../
    - add spellbender kit........................../
    -- make spells & .2da files................./
    -- add kit & files................................./
    -- add descriptions............................/
    - remake Wizard Slayer....................../
    -- w/ save bonuses.........................../
    -- w/ Shout/Deafness......................../
    -- w/ miscast on melee...................../
    -- make abilities bypass MR............./
    -- add fighter /thief option................./
    -- edit descriptions............................/
    ... Tweak wizard kits:
    - separate crafting component........../
    - *no opposition schools*.................../
    - fix xx_list_sr for MS spells.............../
    - replace planetar w/ elemental........../
    - planetar instead of deva at lvl 30...../
    Diviner = ............................................/
    -- innate Contingency......................../
    -- at 11th lvl, load 2 spells................./
    -- luck bonus...................................../
    -- lore bonuses................................../
    -- backstab immunity......................../
    -- add divination spells in CLAB......./
    Invoker = .........................................../
    -- + fire/elec/cold/magic damage...../
    -- add invocation spells in CLAB....../
    Illusionist = ......................................../
    -- Sanctuary, more priest spells......../
    -- permanent SR NonDetection......../
    -- block nondetection scroll use......./
    - give illusionist Shadow Step............/
    -- add illusion spells in CLAB............/
    Transmuter = ...................................../
    -- regeneration spells......................../
    -- brew potions................................./
    -- Form Stability................................/
    -- add alteration spells in CLAB......../
    Abjurer = ............................................/
    -- .EFF for auto Spell Shield............../
    -- separate spells for non-EE............/
    -- block scrolls usability..................../
    -- unblock scroll use!......................../
    -- add abjuration spells in CLAB......./
    Enchanter = ......................................./
    -- Charm/Sleep immunity................../
    -- Aura of save vs. spell penalty......../
    -- craft wands..................................../
    -- add enchant spells in CLAB........../
    Conjurer = ........................................./
    -- non-SR: MS I-III as innates.........../
    -- SR summons, 1 level lower.........../
    -- block scrolls usability..................../
    -- unblock scroll use!......................../
    -- add conjuration spells in CLAB...../
    Necromancer = ................................./
    -- sole access to Necromancy........../
    -- innate Touch spells......................../
    -- add necro spells in CLAB............../
    - improve Larloch's Drain................../
    - improve Ray of Enfeeblement........./
    - remove Anticipation cantrip............./
    - improve Bedazzle cantrip................/
    - improve Stiffen Bones cantrip........./
    - improve Protective Shell cantrip....../
    - improve Earthen Grasp cantrip......../
    - nerf Edwin's necklace....................../
    - use kreso's tweak for Deflections..../
    ... .ini options:
    - warriors: kits_no_tweaks................./
    - warriors: replace_wizard_slayer......./
    - warriors: change_kensai................../
    - rogues: thieves_no_bards................/
    - rogues: bards_no_thieves................/
    - divines: paladin_names_only.........../
    - wizards: spell_battle_changes........./
    ... from testing:
    - fix necromancer hand BAMs.........../
    - fix equipped prof for shambler........./
    - give natural form for shambler........./
    - improve fire elemental form............./
    - fix giant spider form........................./
    - no extra spells for Bladesinger....../?
    - add Valygar = F/T Wiz Slayer.........../
    - add Nalia = Spellbender..............
    - rbarb gets Quickstride if present...
    - use barb rage for berserker..........
    -- no Maze/Drain immunity........
    -- +1/2 APR.............................
    -- disable spellcasting.............
    -- save vs. breath penalty.........
    - test backstab immunity on TOB...
    -- give to rbarb if works.................
    - SR animal summons to Meister....
    - SR animal summons to Baervan...
    - reduced spells for Harrier............
    - test Bladesinger..........................
    -- fix d5_blad1.............................
    - test Spellbender..........................
    - update readme...........................
    -- prof overhaul...........................
    -- warrior tweaks.........................
    -- rogue tweaks..........................
    -- cleric restricted spells.............
    -- druid tweaks...........................
    -- wizard tweaks.........................

    - put out v3.0...................................

    The earlier one isn't as specific so it's not quite apples-to-apples... but even so, it's just a massive difference.

    Oh, where might I find the current version of Spell Revisions? Also, does it work with IWD:EE or just BG:EE? I usually use IWD:EE as my testing grounds for mods and such.

  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    @Vallmyr you will have to write and ask @Demivrgvs for access. In this thread you can find info on how to setup SR for IWD:EE http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?s=86070c68ce2367d10ce551262330c4f4&showtopic=27207

  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    @subtledoctor I have given your mod some more thoughts, that I would like to share with you. I am sure you are ecstatic :wink:

    - Is there a flag or something that can be given to sequencers and contingencies so that they can't be prepared in combat? I think it is important that they can't be spammed every round.
    - It seems to me, that some of the Cleric kits are much stronger than others. Especially Dark Cloak of Shar stands out as being too weak, with only one cast of a few mediocre/weak mage spells pr day. Contrast this with Mistwalker of Leira which gets a good mage spell each level and even Project Image (!!) at level 7. It is mainly Shar that is noticeably weak, but Malar and Baervan might also do with a small buff.
    - Both Shar and Sune specialize in daggers. I am not sure if this is strictly lore, but gameplay wise I would like them to differ in that respect.
    - Is it doable to split up the Paladin part and the Cleric part of Divine Class Tweaks into seperate components? It would make compability with KR easier, even if that is not your goal currently.
    - Following that line of thought: Do the original Cleric kits also get a favoured weapon?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    Ardul said:

    @subtledoctor I have given your mod some more thoughts, that I would like to share with you. I am sure you are ecstatic :wink:

    :smile: Happily I have good answers for most of your questions.
    Ardul said:

    - Is there a flag or something that can be given to sequencers and contingencies so that they can't be prepared in combat? I think it is important that they can't be spammed every round.

    Yes there is such a flag (in EE/TobEx at least) and I'm already using it.
    Ardul said:

    - It seems to me, that some of the Cleric kits are much stronger than others. Especially Dark Cloak of Shar stands out as being too weak, with only one cast of a few mediocre/weak mage spells pr day. Contrast this with Mistwalker of Leira

    The difference is, Mistwalkers simply get some mage spells added to what they can memorize; they get no extra castings. Casting PI will cost you a level 7 spell slot that could have been used for Holy Word or Gate or something. Darkcloaks get their extra spells as innate abilities, so they can be cast *in addition to* their normal spellcasting. So it's a trade-off between extra power, and increased versatility.

    (Incidentally, I haven't done much playing with it but I suspect the Beastheart is actually crazy OP. The at-will claws are better than most nonmagical weapons at low levels; and werewolf form is pretty nice in middle levels; and big cannon fodder are always useful.)
    Ardul said:

    - Both Shar and Sune specialize in daggers. I am not sure if this is strictly lore, but gameplay wise I would like them to differ in that respect.

    Thing is there are only so many weapons; some deities are going to overlap. Like Baervan and Talos both favoring spears.
    Ardul said:

    - Is it doable to split up the Paladin part and the Cleric part of Divine Class Tweaks into seperate components? It would make compability with KR easier, even if that is not your goal currently.

    There is an option for this (to disable paladin changes) in v3.0's .ini file.
    Ardul said:

    - Following that line of thought: Do the original Cleric kits also get a favoured weapon?

    Yes. So do all the cleric kits in Divine Remix and Frosty Journey (provided they are installed first). :smile:

    Ardul
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    - Sequencers: Well that's what I get for not having time to play the game and merely theorycraft :p Luckily we agree ^^ As an addendum, can you use sequencers immediately once you find the scroll or is there a level requirement somehow?

    - Mistwalkers: I do get the difference between innates and extra spells. But clerics don't exactly lack spell slots and the spells mistwalkers get are so much better than Shars' (Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, Project Image are among the best).

    I do not think that Mistwalkers are owerpowered exactly, but Shar really needs a buff in my opinion. Tymora get's better spells and more castings. Spells like Blur, Ice Storm (?), Secret Word, Phantom Blade, Contingency (?), Power Word Silence might be other possibilities?

    Once again I really like a lot of your changes and this mod looks very promising. I am eagerly awaiting release of V. 3.0 :smile:

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    Ardul said:

    can you use sequencers immediately once you find the scroll or is there a level requirement somehow?

    With the v2 version you could cast it from a scroll, which was problematic because you could get any sequencer at 1st level of you find and buy a scroll. And it meant Sorcerers could get them without using a spell choice. I forget if it's fixed in v2.9 or not. But, at least as if v3, you cannot cast it from scrolls. You have to memorize the spell, then cast it, and it becomes an innate from that point forward. This way you can't use them until the appropriate levels (7, 11, and 13, respectively).
    Ardul said:

    Shar really needs a buff in my opinion. ... Blur, Ice Storm (?), Secret Word, Phantom Blade, Contingency (?), Power Word Silence might be other possibilities?

    Some very good ideas there. Especially Blur and Phantom Blade. PW Silence makes sense but every enemy mage has Vocalize with SCS so it's not very useful. Maybe PW Blind at high levels - very powerful, and very appropriate for Shar. I'll see if I can sneak some of these in before v3 goes out.

    Also btw in v3, if you have SRv4 installed, proests of Baervan will get Demi's druidic Animal Summoning spells as well.

    Ardul
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    Congratulations with the new release @subtledoctor - it looks very promising and interesting!

    I have a problem when trying to install though. I get the error message: "[SETUP-SOB.TP2] not found". I unpacked the zip archive, and then copied the files to the 00783 folder. Any ideas?

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    WHY HAVE YOU FAILED ME, FORUMS?!

    So my little update thing didn't tell me that there were new posts in this thread. I just chanced upon it while looking at recent discussions.

    Anyway.

    YEAHHHH THIS MOD IS SO HYPE! Thanks for releasing v3! Time to go and install TnB and this to IWD:EE and begin my run of that game alongside my RP run of BG:EE! I'll just wait for the public release of spell revisions and pick that up when I can. The hype is so real! n_n

  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 817
    I only check the forums to see the progress of Adventure Y and this mod. While I completely trust your creativity as I'm always in awe with each and every changes, I couldn't help but notice the Shadow Step ability for Illusionists. I don't think an Illusionist necessarily dabbles with the Shadow Realm. It doesn't help that I'm not a fan with the way the said ability works i.e. it works like a nerfed Time Stop - it doesn't make much sense to me. I'm not a lore expert so I'm not so sure either, but it somewhat bothers me.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    edited May 2015
    @Ardul I forgot to change the .exe file! rename it to "setup-scales_of_balance.exe" and it should work. (I test on a Mac so a little thing like that got right by me. I'll re-upload with the correct file name.)

    @Illustair I gave Illusionists permanent NonDetection first, then made a bunch of abilities for the other specialists, and then it seemed like Illusionists needed something extra and Shadowstep was fairly easy to adapt. It was a last minute thing.

    I agree that it's kind of like Dimension Door, and you could make an argument that it's more appropriate for Conjurers or Transmuters. But on the other hand Illusionists have spells like Demishadow Monsters and Shades, so shadow-based magic is within their field of expertise.

    I'm all ears - if you or anyone suggests something good, I won't hesitate to change it. I'm just a bit burnt out and can't think of another good ability at the moment.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    edited May 2015

    @Ardul I forgot to change the .exe file! rename it to "setup-scales_of_balance.exe" and it should work. (I test on a Mac so a little thing like that got right by me. I'll re-upload with the correct file name.)

    @Illustair I gave Illusionists permanent NonDetection first, then made a bunch of abilities for the other specialists, and then it seemed like Illusionists needed something extra and Shadowstep was fairly easy to adapt. It was a last minute thing.

    I agree that it's kind of like Dimension Door, and you could make an argument that it's more appropriate for Conjurers or Transmuters. But on the other hand Illusionists have spells like Demishadow Monsters and Shades, so shadow-based magic is within their field of expertise.

    I'm all ears - if you or anyone suggests something good, I won't hesitate to change it. I'm just a bit burnt out and can't think of another good ability at the moment.

    I like the idea of illusionists getting shadow step. Doesn't the shadow-weave give strength to necromancy, illusion, and. . . another school I can't remember atm?

  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    edited May 2015
    @subtledoctor oh that worked :) awesome. It skips the Weapon Proficiency overhaul though, and the Divine Class tweaks won't install either. I changed paladins, spell battle changes and Wizard HLA to 0 in the ini.

    Edit: This also happens on a clean install of BG:EE, so it seems to be something with the component.

    Edit II: Looking at the install file, the only thing noticeable is that the component requires ToBex.. Is that a problem for EE?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    Poop - there's the first bug. I need to edit the REQUIRE_PREDICATE line for the proficiency component - it's looking for TobEx, but it should skip that search of it detects an EE. Simple fix.

    Also, I forgot to add to the changelog: if you have the Song & Silence Dirgesinger installed, it should be able to cast Necromancy spells (the only bard kit that can).

  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 208
    Could you post the edit that needs to be made, so I can do it myself :) ?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,361
    I'll do you one better - here's an updated download:
    https://github.com/subtledoctor/Scales_of_Balance/releases/tag/3.01

    If you don't want to download again, open scales_of_balance.tp2, go to component #250, and change this:
    REQUIRE_PREDICATE MOD_IS_INSTALLED "TOBEX.TP2" "100" @1
    to this:
    REQUIRE_PREDICATE (MOD_IS_INSTALLED "TOBEX.TP2" "100") OR (GAME_IS ~bgee bg2ee iwdee~) @1
    I just tested the instal on BGEE, it works. I also tested it for cleric changes with the paladins setting changed to 0, that worked too.

    VallmyrJuliusBorisovArdul
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 817
    @subtledoctor nah, if you don't mind, and considering it's actually not a big deal to me, I don't mind also. Although I could somewhat see the connection, shadow and all, it's just like what I said, not a fan of the "nerfed Timestop that doesn't make sense why it acts like that." Perhaps after all, that is mainly the reason, and not so much on "doesn't necessarily dabble with Shadow Realm" that I figured would be debatable. Just a personal preference, not a big deal. Just thought I should ask. But I'd tell you if I can think of something as a possible replacement.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,371
    Whenever I install Tome and Blood and then Scales of Balance in IWD:EE I get this error message with the wizard changes :(
    Guess I'll do my run of IWD:EE without TnB for now I suppose.
    image

Sign In or Register to comment.