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SCS Bodhi is hilarious

RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
I am at times left speechless at SCS/Tactics.
Is this even supposed to make any sense for a fight on Chapter 3?
When I went with the Improved component I thought they would be harder under the limits of common sense, but I guess not...image

Post edited by RedWizard on
QuartzJuliusBorisovThacoBelllolienraelcari
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Comments

  • RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
    She does however have a very high CON drain on her attacks that greatly heals her and also grants her temp HP. I realize it can be blocked with PFMW, but it's annoying to have your actual non mage meelee tank rendered useless. Basically if you cannot cast PFMW you are dead if you come near her because of the CON drain.

    semiticgoddess
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    The stats are fine, the HP looks a bit overwhelming :open_mouth:

  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    And traditionally, if a vampire has a class other than vampire, they lose their level draining attack. I realize it's been replaced with the CON drain (...and that makes a world of sense, btw) but still, they shouldn't have that on-hit-effect. Just think of Hexxat or the Shadowdancer vampires in BP2.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,290
    I avoid certain SCS features because they make average enemies legendary beasts. A 92 hp bodhi makes sense from AD&D ruleset , it's a decent amount for someone who can work on several supernatural defenses and offensive skills. For an average , non overpowering party , she makes a decent final chapter boss.

    And then SCS/tactics makes her stronger than dragons. ¬¬

    ThacoBell
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,022
    RedWizard said:

    I am at times left speechless at SCS/Tactics.
    Is this even supposed to make any sense for a fight on Chapter 3?

    That's not a fight you are supposed to win.
    In fact if you beat her in chapter 3 then Bodhi's behavior in chapter 4 may appear a bit weird to say the least.
    DJKajuru said:

    And then SCS/tactics makes her stronger than dragons. ¬¬

    Really a matter of AI script. Dragons could be much more dangerous than they are in this mod.
    There is also a toned down version of Bodhi in SCS, have you tried it ?

    semiticgoddessJuliusBorisovBlackraven
  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    Doesn't the spell Death Ward neutralize the CON draining attack?

  • RedWizardRedWizard Member Posts: 242
    You can't kill Bodhi but you have to get her to near death in order to progress the story... which is basically the same as killing her.
    No idea about Death Ward, I was under the impression you couldn't block ability drain in BG1&2, isn't that a 3e+ feature?

  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,022
    @RedWizard
    Have you tried to survive long enough even if you don't hit her ?

  • cmorgancmorgan Member Posts: 707
    Both Tactics AND SCS? Err...

  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,022
    cmorgan said:

    Both Tactics AND SCS? Err...

    This refers to one of the two SCS install options. In fact this is based on W.Weimer's tactics but it uses a different AI script, less spells/powers and a couple of tweaks.

    Blackravengorgonzola
  • cmorgancmorgan Member Posts: 707
    Ah, ok. For a second, there. I thought folks had put Tactics on, then added all of DavidW's heaviest SCS stuff. That would be... unfortunate.

    BlackravenMusignyThacoBellgorgonzola
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,022
    cmorgan said:

    Ah, ok. For a second, there. I thought folks had put Tactics on, then added all of DavidW's heaviest SCS stuff. That would be... unfortunate.

    Not necessarily. Potentially the hardest challenge would be to fight Tactics Bodhi with the two vampires mages enhanced by the generic AI / smarter mages of SCS. I say "potentially" because there is no specific code to guarantee a good synergy between those spellcasters and Bodhi.
    If you deploy Tactics Bodhi and then SCS Bodhi, I think you just get SCS Bodhi (but I haven't verified it yet). SCS generally overwrites/takes precedence over everything on its path.

    JuliusBorisovgorgonzola
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,022
    oh and I forgot...

    SCS Bodhi can drain both levels and CON.
    Most of her attacks will be done with a level draining weapon but if she cannot find a target with no negative plane protection then she will fully switch to a CON draining weapon.

    JuliusBorisovgorgonzola
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,831
    I've done SCS Bodhi with her Tactics abilities, and her counterparts Manasseh and Hazzerbazzer, and it was pretty wicked.

    gorgonzola
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    elminster said:

    One obvious thing is that a multi-class fighter/thief shouldn't have grandmastery. Also a level 25/25 fighter/thief doesn't make much sense :)

    But then again the goal is to make the game more difficult. So meh.

    Actually the Grandmastery is part of the vanilla CRE. Bodhi has 5 pips in every weapon proficiency. So, that's not SCS/Tactics, that was Bioware.

    semiticgoddesscmorgangorgonzola
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    Not to mention she's worth 91000xp, more than anything in the game. Vanilla version is just a joke, she deserves to be scary

    SmilingSwordgorgonzola
  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    Slightly off topic: How do you get Bodhi or other characters/montsters in your party so that you can check their stats, as the OP did?

  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Alonso said:

    Slightly off topic: How do you get Bodhi or other characters/montsters in your party so that you can check their stats, as the OP did?

    Mouse over them and Ctrl+Q.

    AlonsoJuliusBorisovlolien
  • jinxed75jinxed75 Member Posts: 157
    Dexter said:

    Not to mention she's worth 91000xp, more than anything in the game. Vanilla version is just a joke, she deserves to be scary

    She's worth 91k XP because Bioware felt it necessary to bolster the players with XP in Ch3, simple as that.
    Her stats don't make sense, her abilities don't make sense either lorewise.
    It's a Tactics encounter, it's supposed to be extremely hard, and that's all there is to it.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    edited October 2016
    jinxed75 said:

    Her stats don't make sense, her abilities don't make sense either lorewise.
    It's a Tactics encounter, it's supposed to be extremely hard, and that's all there is to it.

    That's basically it. SCS/Tactics and similar mods consciously trade off "logic" and RP value for mechanical gains. It's not supposed to make sense in terms of stats etc., it's supposed to be a challenge for the sake of challenge. Same with LoB, to an extent - of course it's silly to have a rat with 150hp when you are at 15hp, but that sort of inconsistency is fine with the people for whom such modes are designed.

    That being said, SCS does strive to at least preserve some semblance of RP and story consistency, and doesn't just throw away everything from the original versions of encounters. Of course everything is supercharged, but that's just what the mod is designed to do.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    Hard but nor extremely, try her last battle with Sola mod and Solaufein in the party, without separating them, that is extremely hard :smiley:
    Too bad that afaik Sola mod is not compatible with EE, it has some of the more interesting battles you can find.
    Sure Tactics and Solaufein are old school mods, that use improved AI but also tons of cheese and plain cheating, not for everybody taste. But, if you want the things HARD imo are less boring than LoB, that cheats not less, with that increase of HP and the rest for no reason.
    With a good leveling strategy and a party that can deal good DMG and can protect himself beating LoB is not rocket science, is very easy, beating Tactics+Sola+Ascension with your own recipes, without using other player's ones, and avoiding cheap ones like spamming TS with an over leveled Sorcerer, imho is an art, needs creativity, knowledge, flexibility and... good and sound tactics. If you add SCS even better.
    Not hard as IA, but a lot more creative, don't force you to play in a certain way, you have all the freedom that you can want to find your way, both soloing and with a party, both using exploits and avoiding them.

    ALIENGirewanJuliusBorisov
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,290
    Back in the day I would fight improved bodhi + solaufein , but back then I would also heavily mod my game and be around level 20 with high level abilities and endless spells and items.

    Nowadays I try to balance my party a bit more and do the same with enemies.

    gorgonzolalunar
  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 918
    Casting spells like PfMW will make your enemies ignore the person under the effect, and target someone vulnurable instead.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    @RelSundan if you have a versatile party you can use it to your advantage, you can choose who you have targeted choosing who you protect and how you do it. You have also the choice to let the enemy see who you want positioning your party in the right way.
    The stupid targeting of vanilla promotes cheap tactics, make even a Demilich an easy to solve problem for an under leveled party, a better AI force you to have good tactics, but you have still plenty of options.

    And this lead to an other point that for me is very relevant, and answer to @DJKajuru last post.
    Tactics is od school, SCS is a more modern approach, and there are other different ones, like using the environment that @subtledoctor's mods can create, they reach a goal in very different ways, the player's taste is what decide in using an approach or an other.
    But their goal is common, and is not rising difficulty or improve the AI, think that those are the goals is misleading.

    The real goal, the reason why some of us chose to mod the game, is common, is improving HI (human intelligence). Each of those approaches force the player to use better his intelligence and knowledge, if against mods that cheat, improve enemy AI, or change completely the magic and combat system, is nos so relevant. Is relevant to our personal tastes, but not to our common goal, having a game that make us use our brains to win.

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