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User Ratings on Metacritic (*SPOILERS*)

1246735

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  • UltraB00nUltraB00n Member Posts: 37
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    You start an optional dialogue about her "strange name" and then she gives you one line about having been raised the wrong gender. That's it.

    There is more to it, because that piece of dialogue just happens to be 100% in line with the narrative pushed by radical trans activists, i.e. that biological sex is immaterial, that gender is "assigned" rather than determined and that transitioning is the only proper way to address gender dysphoria, even though there is absolutely no consensus on this within the medical community.

    This was not just some harmless line and a case of well-intentioned trans inclusion. The writer has taken a very distinct ideological stance on the issue and shoved it down the player's throat. Screw this.

    minsc4prez
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    Ah yes the "ideological stance" that trans people are not mentally ill.

    SkatanMontresor_SP
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    edited April 2016
    UltraB00n said:

    RedKnight said:

    It's too bad that the evil cis white heterosexual male oppressors are probably 95% of your audience.

    Hey! I ain't no cissy!

    So what will this controversy be called? Baldursgate?

    I haven't purchased the game, but won't let this "controversy" stop me. It doesn't bother me that such a character exists. At most, the implementation might be cheesy (which others seem to think), but it shouldn't ruin the entire gaming experience. Giving the game a low review for this one issue is ridiculous.

    On the other side of Tymora's coin, I think that many people are simply getting fed up with PC culture so react negatively when things like this might appear to be shoehorned. There is definitely a PC backlash coming; South Park even devoted a whole season making fun of PC culture, which was quite refreshing. It's not so much that I care what people do with their lives, but pre-packaged, parroted lingo such as "inclusiveness" and "check your privilege" are becoming increasingly grating.

    Where I work, "inclusiveness" and "diversity" are part of the company motto. I believe strongly that all people should be judged on their merits, but it's one thing to have a bona fide meritocracy, and quite another to be so self-indulgent about it. I recently received an office-wide e-mail regarding some inclusiveness seminar advising supervisors to consider race, gender, etc., when giving reviews. It explained that white males get better reviews, don't have to keep proving themselves to get a good review, one strength turns into an overall high review, etc., etc., etc. The only thing in the males' favor was the acknowledgement that fathers might need time for their children. Even if there is an element of truth there, the presentation is off. If my supervisor (a female) takes it to heart, will she second-guess her review of me if it is "too high?" Maybe. So far, I've literally only seen women get promoted within my position.

    I'm just tired of it all, and I'm not the only one. If anything, there seems to be a concerted effort to marginalize me. The last time I checked, I felt the steamy privilege rolling down my face while being bent over a barrel. Lathander forbid I ever get divorced and see just how privileged I am in the family courts. I would feel more confident of my chances being a black man accused of murdering a white woman in the Jim Crow South than I would being a man going through divorce proceedings.

    Ultimately, this is a social issue best left to the wisdom of sages and miniature giant space hamsters.

    WilddreddFinnTheHumanQbert
  • sffrrromsffrrrom Member Posts: 60
    Osigold said:

    RedKnight said:


    Can anyone who has already played the game please give an honest evaluation how much SJW content is there? I already bought the game on Steam, but I am thinking of refunding it, because this SJW bullshit has to stop.

    I'd say it's omnipresent.

    They have a nice system of chat interjections that is mostly used throughout the opening of the game by the female NPCs to belittle and denigrate the male NPCs and the player character.

    The men in Baldur's Gate are predominantly portrayed as incompetents, thugs, traitors, dimwits, drunks, lackeys and pests while the women are predominantly portrayed as officers, wizards, businesspeople, and humanitarians.

    Even in the case of the few villainous females, they're either more competent than the men (a thief that actually steals from you rather than just threatening you and getting turned into paste) or quick to secure "victim cred" by murderously breaking out of jail and then claiming some undisclosed but horrific abuse that's head-scratching unlikely and which none of the other prisoners (mostly men) seem to have been subjected to.

    You're expected to fall in line with social justice mentality, such as when a group of refugees beat a man half to death and take the money he's carrying (which is the player's) and the game frames this as a positive thing which you should totally thank them for, because they never would have stolen it except that they thought that it belonged to wealthy people and they give it to their refugee mates.

    You can expect to get scolded if you try to adhere to the conventions of, say, heroic fantasy... rather than social justice. A small child whose mother is leaving to accompany you to war will "diss" you if you tell her that you're going to protect your comrade (because she doesn't need you, of course!); the only acceptable answer is to say that this woman that you've only just met and have never seen in any serious battle is incredibly tough.

    Even among the ogres, the female ogre is of course by far the strongest and yet inexplicably subject to oppression by her male counterparts.

    These are just some of the things that I've noticed, mostly from the very start of the game.

    I hope that's helpful to you.
    Wow, I have to say I didn't interpret most, if not all, of these at all close to how you did, and I am not trying to be offensive or deliberately contrarian when I say that.

    Going through your examples:

    I totally failed to observe the first point, regarding interjections denigrating males - were there specifics you thought were over the top?

    As to women being more competent or men being portrayed as incompetent, I'm not sure what this could refer to other than Corwin? Off the top of my head, there is the character of "The Barghest" who is male, works for the crusade, and is described as a supremely fearsome and competent warrior, all three of the commanders of the coalition forces, who have varying degrees of competence, are male, Skie, one of the most annoying and incompetent characters in the whole thing, is female, etc. I just don't see a prevalent bias there and I'm a bit baffled that you thought it was so omnipresent.

    As to your refugee example, I believe there was an option that permitted you to sympathize with them for robbing the rich guy - there was also an option that permitted you to convince them what they had done was wrong, and have them arrested, which I chose, or an option to bloodily murder them all. I don't understand why you perceive the game to be "pushing" one of these options as an agenda but not the others?

    I don't see the child's reaction as unrealistic either - it's unrealistic for a girl child who idolizes her female mother who has a high-ranking position in the city guard to react this way to your assertion that you will protect her? I don't understand how this is offensive or pushing an agenda.

    The female ogre thing I simply saw as one of a series of oddball quests common throughout the BG series - like convincing the beholder to let you look in the chest or unleashing Minsc on the pirate lord, there's a semi-comedic option to rescue the ogre lady's mate to convince the ogres to fight for you. You can also just murder them all, or pick one to support.

    I guess I really just don't understand why you perceive many of things you mentioned the way you do. I certainly didn't, and I'm trying to understand why you did.

    craymond727MythagopekoSayaki
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,278
    edited April 2016
    @sffrrrom I don't know the mindset of Osigold, but if you went into the game expecting a SJW-agenda I think you inadvertendly run into conformation bias. And someone else interprets these things in a different way. It's all a bit subjective in the end.

    Diogenes42lansounetpekoSayaki
  • UltraB00nUltraB00n Member Posts: 37

    Ah yes the "ideological stance" that trans people are not mentally ill.

    Yes, it is an ideological stance. There is absolutely no evidence for "brain sex" or any other of the notions put forward by radical trans activists. Maybe it is a mental illness. So what? Why are you stigmatizing mental illness?

    Transitioning may be the right thing for some trans people but right now, the trans activist community is insisting that it is the only acceptable way to address the issue of gender dysphoria and is clamping down hard on dissenting views, particularly within the medical community, and they don't even shy away from character assassination and false accusations of abuse against doctors who try to help gender dysphoric people by attempting to make them feel comfortable with their biological sex before resorting to the ultima ratio of hormone therapy and the removal of perfectly healthy sexual organs.

    Note that I don't talk about trans people as a group but rather the radical wing of trans activists. It's their ideological stance the writer of this horrible character supported and chose to shove down our throats.

    Ardul
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    Question for the anti-GGers/pro-SJWs in this thread -

    Would you buy a game from a company where one of the devs was an outspoken neo-nazi, even if the game itself was not nazi, save for a single charector who tells you that the holocaust was a lie, and a couple of easter eggs about Jews controlling world media, without any irony or context that would excuse said remarks?

    This is simply as a thought experiment.

  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 519
    Big deal! The score from critics is 85+ and anyone who cares about public reviews knows better than to trust zero-scores.

    As for GameGaters - what a sorrow bunch! I do agree that Beamdog is to blame for the flame: no matter how wonderful is stuff you are creating, if you publicly declare the ONLY reason you write what you write is political agenda - you will attract every radical around.

    Still, agree about narrow-minded SJW haters. THIS IS PC GAME. COMPLETELY MODDABLE! You hate those "wrong" characters? Perfect! Now you can kill one! In any creative way possible! Starting from primitive Ctrl-Y (already in game!) and ending with a special mod you can make yourself. Include an anti-whatever speech in that mod. Make special effects for it! Express any feeling you get - it's all there for you. Be creative in your hatred!

    But - no, all they can do is to whine about something they have to deeply dig in to get to be "stuffed in their throat". Pathetic.

    PurudayaSouthpaw
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    Joey said:

    Question for the anti-GGers/pro-SJWs in this thread -

    Would you buy a game from a company where one of the devs was an outspoken neo-nazi, even if the game itself was not nazi, save for a single charector who tells you that the holocaust was a lie, and a couple of easter eggs about Jews controlling world media, without any irony or context that would excuse said remarks?

    This is simply as a thought experiment.

    Horrible false equivalency. Ridiculous. A true equivalency would be a neutral reference to Trump, a Minsc Easter egg in support of Gamergate, or a mildly homophobic joke.

    But to your point, no – I might not buy that game, just like nobody is forcing you to buy this one. What I wouldn't do is haunt the developer's forums and make it my mission to sink the franchise by bombing websites with wave after wave of negative reviews.

    booinyoureyesArdulSayaki
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    When you are about to make a post just take a moment to stop and think this simple thought: what would Minsc think about what you are about to say? Do you think he would approve?

    I think in a lot of cases he would not. I don't think it is going to far to say that anything that Minsc is not happy with is not something that anybody should be happy with. So maybe don't make that post, maybe write something more positive instead like how you enjoyed that new dungeon.

  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    Purudaya said:

    Joey said:

    Question for the anti-GGers/pro-SJWs in this thread -

    Would you buy a game from a company where one of the devs was an outspoken neo-nazi, even if the game itself was not nazi, save for a single charector who tells you that the holocaust was a lie, and a couple of easter eggs about Jews controlling world media, without any irony or context that would excuse said remarks?

    This is simply as a thought experiment.

    Horrible false equivalency. Ridiculous. A true equivalency would be a neutral reference to Trump, a Minsc Easter egg in support of Gamergate, or a mildly homophobic joke.

    But to your point, no – I might not buy that game, just like nobody is forcing you to buy this one. What I wouldn't do is haunt the developer's forums and make it my mission to sink the franchise by bombing websites with wave after wave of negative reviews.
    So other than choosing not to buy it yourself, you'd be fine with other people buying it? You'd make no effort to publicize the developers' extremist opinions or normalisation of said opinions in the game?

    That's up to you of course. But surely you wouldn't judge others for pro-actively trying to draw attention to the fact?

  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Mirandel said:

    Big deal! The score from critics is 85+ and anyone who cares about public reviews knows better than to trust zero-scores.

    As for GameGaters - what a sorrow bunch! I do agree that Beamdog is to blame for the flame: no matter how wonderful is stuff you are creating, if you publicly declare the ONLY reason you write what you write is political agenda - you will attract every radical around.

    Still, agree about narrow-minded SJW haters. THIS IS PC GAME. COMPLETELY MODDABLE! You hate those "wrong" characters? Perfect! Now you can kill one! In any creative way possible! Starting from primitive Ctrl-Y (already in game!) and ending with a special mod you can make yourself. Include an anti-whatever speech in that mod. Make special effects for it! Express any feeling you get - it's all there for you. Be creative in your hatred!

    But - no, all they can do is to whine about something they have to deeply dig in to get to be "stuffed in their throat". Pathetic.

    usually developers get away with their agenda, at worst get a few bruises. this time the developer really gets a thorough beating. and maybe they even deserve it. but what they definately don't deserve is the fact, that while they delivered a really good game, the sales might drop severely.
    user reviews will use this sjw nonsense as catalysts, combining it with the bad parts of the game, that in fact do exist, to discourage potential buyers from purchasing it.
    and all of that because they had to stuff this sjw-bogus into a product, whose roots are considered a treasure or even the treasure from the golden age of gaming.

    and god damn it, the sjws are known to target primarily white males, who also happen to be the target audience of this product.

    XzarGodKaiserHellQbertproghead3
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 863
    edited April 2016
    Honest answer? I would probably curse such character, and perhaps even the dev behind it. My reaction might be "whatever assholes." But to launch a coordinated assault, a hate campaign against the company over few lines? Leaving 0s and 1s all over the place, downvoting all positive remarks even if substantiated? Still most likely NOT. That's childish. I will most likely just voice out my opinion, not be hellbent on destroying the company. It may be different if we're talking about a sizeable proportion of the game, maybe then, just maybe... But only because that's an extreme example you have there. Holocaust and Nazis, really? The controversy at hand is nowhere near that extreme, no?

    Will you take my word for it? If not, just tell me...I could try to recall how I felt, and how I reacted, as a Catholic, a strong believer at that, with regard to the game Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader. It was blasphemous on many levels

    Grum
  • GrimLefourbeGrimLefourbe Member Posts: 637
    Can we not compare advocating that transexual aren't mentally ill with advocating mass murder?

    IllustairDashivaGrum
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Joey said:

    Purudaya said:

    Joey said:

    Question for the anti-GGers/pro-SJWs in this thread -

    Would you buy a game from a company where one of the devs was an outspoken neo-nazi, even if the game itself was not nazi, save for a single charector who tells you that the holocaust was a lie, and a couple of easter eggs about Jews controlling world media, without any irony or context that would excuse said remarks?

    This is simply as a thought experiment.

    Horrible false equivalency. Ridiculous. A true equivalency would be a neutral reference to Trump, a Minsc Easter egg in support of Gamergate, or a mildly homophobic joke.

    But to your point, no – I might not buy that game, just like nobody is forcing you to buy this one. What I wouldn't do is haunt the developer's forums and make it my mission to sink the franchise by bombing websites with wave after wave of negative reviews.
    So other than choosing not to buy it yourself, you'd be fine with other people buying it? You'd make no effort to publicize the developers' extremist opinions or normalisation of said opinions in the game?

    That's up to you of course. But surely you wouldn't judge others for pro-actively trying to draw attention to the fact?
    Over a single Trump reference or pro-gamergate Easter egg? Or a transphobic joke? Pillars of Eternity had one of those and you guys were nowhere to be found. Where was your high minded anger over "agendas" then?

    Although there was a backlash, nobody tried to *destroy* PoE. And if they HAD faced something this overblown, I would view the attackers as pathetic, thin skinned children. Just like the fragile, ever-offended gamerbros here who can't handle living in a world where they may be confronted with something that they don't like. I would never support this level of wounded victim mentality over such minor content. How can you?

    IllustairSayakiGrum
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,787
    So, Siege of Dragonspear has lower user score than freaking Fallout 4? For once again I was assured that having faith in internaut's intelligence is pretty much pointless.

    IllustairCahir
  • UltraB00nUltraB00n Member Posts: 37
    Illustair said:

    But to launch a coordinated assault, a hate campaign against the company over few lines?

    I guess Amber Scott shitting on the original BG and then saying, essentially, "fuck you" to the customer base in an interview with, of all people, NATHAN GRAYSON for, of all places, KOTAKU was not particularly helpful, now was it?

    CoffeethrallRatcliff
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816

    For real if Minsc had a line saying "Let's make the realms great again" I'd enjoy a sensible chuckle.

    Exactly this.

    Grum
  • AlexhandrAlexhandr Member Posts: 2
    I for one made sure to tell my friends. Bad reviews for a bad game for a bad company. Don't touch what you obviously loathe, Beamdog. Keep your inept game designers and developers away, and your poisonous agenda (though not nearly as irksome as your bug ridden excuse for a game) off the Baldur's Gate franchise. You lack the creativity to create your own game, so you leech off a beloved franchise, and in doing so, you taint it. Then you have the gall to ask people to write positive reviews for you to go over the "minority" that are upset.
    If that is how you regard this series and the people who bought it and played it for almost two decades, then may your company hit rock bottom. Your deplorable character writing isn't the most heinous of mistakes - though I can assure you, it is still beyond aggravating - it's your complete lack of ability to launch a game that doesn't crash, make awful UI changes, or be riddled with more bugs than even an ORKIN man can handle.

    proghead3atakdog
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    Alexhandr said:

    I for one made sure to tell my friends. Bad reviews for a bad game for a bad company. Don't touch what you obviously loathe, Beamdog. Keep your inept game designers and developers away, and your poisonous agenda (though not nearly as irksome as your bug ridden excuse for a game) off the Baldur's Gate franchise. You lack the creativity to create your own game, so you leech off a beloved franchise, and in doing so, you taint it. Then you have the gall to ask people to write positive reviews for you to go over the "minority" that are upset.
    If that is how you regard this series and the people who bought it and played it for almost two decades, then may your company hit rock bottom. Your deplorable character writing isn't the most heinous of mistakes - though I can assure you, it is still beyond aggravating - it's your complete lack of ability to launch a game that doesn't crash, make awful UI changes, or be riddled with more bugs than even an ORKIN man can handle.

    Have you played it? On Steam, where you can't review a game unless you've played it, the reviews are 71% positive. People who are actually playing the game seem to be having a pretty good time.

    BelgarathMTHsparkleavSayakiGrum
  • craymond727craymond727 Member Posts: 208
    Joey said:

    Question for the anti-GGers/pro-SJWs in this thread -

    Would you buy a game from a company where one of the devs was an outspoken neo-nazi, even if the game itself was not nazi, save for a single charector who tells you that the holocaust was a lie, and a couple of easter eggs about Jews controlling world media, without any irony or context that would excuse said remarks?

    This is simply as a thought experiment.

    Are you attempting to equate feminism with Nazism? Or is your use of hyperbole simply in poor taste?

    IllustairSayakiGrum
  • AlexhandrAlexhandr Member Posts: 2
    Purudaya said:

    Alexhandr said:

    I for one made sure to tell my friends. Bad reviews for a bad game for a bad company. Don't touch what you obviously loathe, Beamdog. Keep your inept game designers and developers away, and your poisonous agenda (though not nearly as irksome as your bug ridden excuse for a game) off the Baldur's Gate franchise. You lack the creativity to create your own game, so you leech off a beloved franchise, and in doing so, you taint it. Then you have the gall to ask people to write positive reviews for you to go over the "minority" that are upset.
    If that is how you regard this series and the people who bought it and played it for almost two decades, then may your company hit rock bottom. Your deplorable character writing isn't the most heinous of mistakes - though I can assure you, it is still beyond aggravating - it's your complete lack of ability to launch a game that doesn't crash, make awful UI changes, or be riddled with more bugs than even an ORKIN man can handle.

    Have you played it? On Steam, where you can't review a game unless you've played it, the reviews are 71% positive. People who are actually playing the game seem to be having a pretty good time.
    GOG is where I buy most of my games these days. My friends that have played it all share similar viewpoints to mine.
    GOG.com reviews are much less positive than Steam reviews, and I think this is due to who buys what from where, and the audience that does so. but, this is all beside my point. The EE itself was a buggy, trite mess at launch, and this sorry excuse for a game is even worse. To throw salt on the wound, the devs thought it cute to change what was fine to suit their... "interpretation" of what should be.
    Don't fix what ain't broke, and most assuredly, don't alter what has been fine for almost two decades. But, we live in a society filled with elitists and snobby college brats who get offended at being looked at, so none of this should have even come as a surprise to me. How can I expect good video games to be made when all of society itself is a laughable and pathetic?

    atakdog
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    @Alexhandr: Cheer up, li'l buddy. Maybe go for a jog, write a letter to an old friend, or go buy yourself a nice croissant. Things will seem better.

    Belfaldurnikbyrne20Sayaki
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Alexhandr said:

    Purudaya said:

    Alexhandr said:

    I for one made sure to tell my friends. Bad reviews for a bad game for a bad company. Don't touch what you obviously loathe, Beamdog. Keep your inept game designers and developers away, and your poisonous agenda (though not nearly as irksome as your bug ridden excuse for a game) off the Baldur's Gate franchise. You lack the creativity to create your own game, so you leech off a beloved franchise, and in doing so, you taint it. Then you have the gall to ask people to write positive reviews for you to go over the "minority" that are upset.
    If that is how you regard this series and the people who bought it and played it for almost two decades, then may your company hit rock bottom. Your deplorable character writing isn't the most heinous of mistakes - though I can assure you, it is still beyond aggravating - it's your complete lack of ability to launch a game that doesn't crash, make awful UI changes, or be riddled with more bugs than even an ORKIN man can handle.

    Have you played it? On Steam, where you can't review a game unless you've played it, the reviews are 71% positive. People who are actually playing the game seem to be having a pretty good time.
    GOG is where I buy most of my games these days. My friends that have played it all share similar viewpoints to mine.
    GOG.com reviews are much less positive than Steam reviews, and I think this is due to who buys what from where, and the audience that does so. but, this is all beside my point. The EE itself was a buggy, trite mess at launch, and this sorry excuse for a game is even worse. To throw salt on the wound, the devs thought it cute to change what was fine to suit their... "interpretation" of what should be.
    Don't fix what ain't broke, and most assuredly, don't alter what has been fine for almost two decades. But, we live in a society filled with elitists and snobby college brats who get offended at being looked at, so none of this should have even come as a surprise to me. How can I expect good video games to be made when all of society itself is a laughable and pathetic?
    I haven't encountered any game-breaking bugs aside from one or two crashes and have found the game riveting. What bugs have you encountered? Have you played the game?

    lansounetSayaki
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 863
    edited April 2016
    UltraB00n said:

    Illustair said:

    But to launch a coordinated assault, a hate campaign against the company over few lines?

    I guess Amber Scott shitting on the original BG and then saying, essentially, "fuck you" to the customer base in an interview with, of all people, NATHAN GRAYSON for, of all places, KOTAKU was not particularly helpful, now was it?

    That's an over the top take on it, don't you think? There's NO "essentially 'fuck you' to the customer base" wtf are you talking about?? Even the "shitting" argument is exaggerated! That's her take over such a small aspect of the game. To her, it seemed sexist. She's entitled to that. Boo hoo. Get over it! Well, to be honest, there are dull moments in BG1, there are certain boring moments that deserve to be improved! There I said it. I'm shitting on the original series! I'm such a vile person! Stone me to death! No! I love the game, I'm not "shitting" on it at all. That's just my take on certain parts of the game, a tiny portion at that, much like her take that it appeared sexist. No, she's not shitting on something she passionately loves. Someone's just being overly sensitive about it.

    By the way, it's hard to catch you guys on one argument. You conveniently jump from one to another everytime.

    sparkleavpekoFinnTheHumanSayaki
This discussion has been closed.