Skip to content

The creator of Forgotten Realms chimes in

PilgrimzeroPilgrimzero Member Posts: 1
in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear

Ed Greenwoods FB page


I am saddened by what I hear of the current kerfluffle raging about Siege of Dragonspear and the trans character Amber Scott designed and included in it.
Folks, the Realms have ALWAYS had characters (mortals and deities) who crossdressed, changed gender (and not just to sneak past guards in an adventure, by way of shapeshifting magic or illusions), were actively bisexual, and openly gay. How underscored this was by TSR and later Wizards varied over time, and was always softpedaled, because D&D wasn't a sex game, and we generally don't rub the reader's nose in sex unless there's a good in-story reason for it.
But even deities have changed gender, sometimes for good, and the servants of deities (Elminster, in ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE) have sometimes been forced by the deity to "spend time as the other" to learn what life is like.
So it has always been there, and is an integral part of the Realms. With that said, I've never met a gamer yet who doesn't tinker with every adventure to "make it their own" at their own gaming table, so if trans, LGBT, or sexual matters at all don't suit your tastes and needs in your gaming sessions, leave it out or change it.
But D&D has half-orcs, and half-dragons, and half-elves, and has magic items that specifically change gender, right there in the rules. Surely, if you can handle the basic notion of cross-SPECIES sex, having a full variety of gender roles should be something that doesn't blow your mind. If it's not for you, that's fine. I hate wearing certain shades of yellow. But I don't scream and yell at someone I see wearing those shades of yellow, and call them names, and threaten things. My right to dislike yellow applies to me; it doesn't extend to others. Because somehow, through an incredible oversight on the part of the universe that still hasn't been rectified, no one made me a god. (I'm still crushed.)
«13456789

Comments

  • zealerzealer Member Posts: 30
    edited April 2016
    gangler said:

    They also don't rub your nose in it.

    That's debatable. I would say that asking someone the reason for their name and having them give their life story is rubbing your nose in it, whether they were talking about feeling like a boy, a girl, or an attack helicopter.

    And then only giving you the option to say, "you're so brave" or "ok", when I can tell the rest of the world to "shove it, I'm the bhallspawn".
    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    Notice that once again, Ed Greenwood doesn't specifically mention transgender. Once again, he mentions gays and bisexuals, but not transgenders. The closest word he said was "crossdressing", and gay people do that quite often.
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 877
    Smaug said:

    Maximvs said:

    Notice that once again, Ed Greenwood doesn't specifically mention transgender. Once again, he mentions gays and bisexuals, but not transgenders. The closest word he said was "crossdressing", and gay people do that quite often.

    From above:

    "I am saddened by what I hear of the current kerfluffle raging about Siege of Dragonspear and the trans character Amber Scott designed and included in it"

    "so if trans, LGBT, or sexual matters at all don't suit your tastes"

    :#

  • SmaugSmaug Member Posts: 216
    Illustair said:


    :#

    If you had to describe what this face is conveying, what uh, what would you say? I'm not familiar w/ colon hashtag.
  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    He "chimed", but he didn't "chime in". Ed dislikes the strawmen he's been told are running around near his field. Good for him.
  • skeptik_59skeptik_59 Member Posts: 38
    Samy said:

    zealer said:

    I would say that asking someone the reason for their name and having them give their life story is rubbing your nose in it, whether they were talking about feeling like a boy, a girl, or an attack helicopter.

    I would say that if anyone thinks that a single line that is never revisited again is "rubbing it in", that person must be exceptionally sensitive.

    Stunningly exceptional sensitivity goes hand in hand with the easily offended. One of their hallmarks, actually. We have been exposed to it for days now.

    Wish I could give 'em all a hug and a mug of hot cocoa.... ;)
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 877
    Smaug said:

    Illustair said:


    :#

    If you had to describe what this face is conveying, what uh, what would you say? I'm not familiar w/ colon hashtag.
    I apologize haha I really really wanted to comment, but then I remembered that I already inhibited myself from participating, so I removed what I wrote. But I agree on what you said. The emoji is for the previous post you commented on. Whatever that means.
  • zealerzealer Member Posts: 30
    edited April 2016
    Samy said:

    I would say that if anyone thinks that a single line that is never revisited again is "rubbing it in", that person must be exceptionally sensitive.

    It's not about the quantity of words or time, but how it was written.

    Would you say that it's as sensitive as say people complaining about a joke in a certain tombstone in Pillars of Eternity?
    gangler said:

    If you ask her about her strange name she explains why her name is strange. It's two lines of optional text in a twenty hour story. It would be absurd to argue that this is rubbing anybody's nose in it.

    Like I said, it's not about the quantity but about how it was written. It's just bad writing.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    I doubt he is aware of the fact that transgendered players are also complaining about how the character was portrayed.
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    zealer said:

    Samy said:

    I would say that if anyone thinks that a single line that is never revisited again is "rubbing it in", that person must be exceptionally sensitive.

    It's not about the quantity of words or time, but how it was written.

    Would you say that it's as sensitive as say people complaining about a joke in a certain tombstone in Pillars of Eternity?
    gangler said:

    If you ask her about her strange name she explains why her name is strange. It's two lines of optional text in a twenty hour story. It would be absurd to argue that this is rubbing anybody's nose in it.

    Like I said, it's not about the quantity but about how it was written. It's just bad writing.
    Check out the reviews of Pillars on metacritic, then take a look at the reviews for Siege. Let me know if you find the reactions of both groups equally "sensitive."
  • SamySamy Member Posts: 51
    zealer said:

    Like I said, it's not about the quantity but about how it was written. It's just bad writing.

    So 0.01% of the game has bad writing. Big deal.
  • MaximvsMaximvs Member Posts: 94
    I'm gay. Bye.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Did Krem in Dragon Age 3 get this much stick? I don't seem to remember him getting much stick at all.
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    Shandyr said:

    It's nice to see what Ed Greenwood thinks on this.

    But this will not change one bit on the current discussions.
    Because both sides will use what he says as proof for their points.

    No, one side will be happy that he is clearly supporting them, while the other will pretend that he's not.

    Gamergate claimed that trans people had no place in Forgotten Realms, and the creator just made an entire post explaining why they do. Now we have an issue of cognitive dissonance: do you continue believing something about a medium that said medium's creator has directly refuted, or do you accept that your initial assessment of the medium was incorrect? It's a tough one.
  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    Purudaya said:

    zealer said:

    Samy said:

    I would say that if anyone thinks that a single line that is never revisited again is "rubbing it in", that person must be exceptionally sensitive.

    It's not about the quantity of words or time, but how it was written.

    Would you say that it's as sensitive as say people complaining about a joke in a certain tombstone in Pillars of Eternity?
    gangler said:

    If you ask her about her strange name she explains why her name is strange. It's two lines of optional text in a twenty hour story. It would be absurd to argue that this is rubbing anybody's nose in it.

    Like I said, it's not about the quantity but about how it was written. It's just bad writing.
    Check out the reviews of Pillars on metacritic, then take a look at the reviews for Siege. Let me know if you find the reactions of both groups equally "sensitive."
    They're not equally sensitive. What happened in Pillars was way worse. No one's accusing Beamdog of doing harm to real people in the real world, are they? No one's demanding the game be changed in order to appease them, are they? And the offense caused in Pillars was accidental, while at least some of the offense caused here was deliberate. You seem to think that it's somehow a terrible transgression for people to leave a review on a review site, and you seem to think it has some objective weighting as if people can't judge for themselves upon glancing at those reviews whether or not the presence of Social Justice writing is a factor is in their purchase making decision.

    You wouldn't let those reviews dissuade you for buying the game, right? Why shouldn't it be the same for anyone else who doesn't care about SJWs?
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    skeptik_59 said:

    Samy said:

    zealer said:

    I would say that asking someone the reason for their name and having them give their life story is rubbing your nose in it, whether they were talking about feeling like a boy, a girl, or an attack helicopter.

    I would say that if anyone thinks that a single line that is never revisited again is "rubbing it in", that person must be exceptionally sensitive.

    Stunningly exceptional sensitivity goes hand in hand with the easily offended. One of their hallmarks, actually. We have been exposed to it for days now.

    Wish I could give 'em all a hug and a mug of hot cocoa.... ;)
    Maybe with some Xanax or something.
  • skeptik_59skeptik_59 Member Posts: 38
    Purudaya said:

    skeptik_59 said:

    Samy said:

    zealer said:

    I would say that asking someone the reason for their name and having them give their life story is rubbing your nose in it, whether they were talking about feeling like a boy, a girl, or an attack helicopter.

    I would say that if anyone thinks that a single line that is never revisited again is "rubbing it in", that person must be exceptionally sensitive.

    Stunningly exceptional sensitivity goes hand in hand with the easily offended. One of their hallmarks, actually. We have been exposed to it for days now.

    Wish I could give 'em all a hug and a mug of hot cocoa.... ;)
    Maybe with some Xanax or something.
    >laffs< As a retired psychiatric nurse, I concur with your prescription... ;)
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    Nice to see the post from Ed. But really, this situation is not nearly as important as people are making it out to be.

    Internet mobs are super mobby.
  • InsultionInsultion Member Posts: 179
    zealer said:

    but how it was written

    Quote it and point out what makes it so pushy, then.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/04/04/developers-response-to-baldurs-gate-controversy-misses-the-point/
Sign In or Register to comment.

2024 Overhaul Games, a division of Beamdog. © 2024 Hasbro, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Baldur's Gate, Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, Forgotten Realms, Baldur's Gate, Wizards of the Coast and their logos are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the U.S.A. and other countries, and are used with permission. Hasbro and its logo are trademarks of Hasbro, Inc. and are used with permission. © 1998 BioWare Corp. All Rights Reserved. BioWare, the BioWare Infinity Engine and the BioWare logo are trademarks of Bioware Corp. Black Isle Studios and the Black Isle Studios logo are trademarks of Interplay Entertainment Corp. Atari and the Atari logo are trademarks owned by Atari Interactive, Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.