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All you wanted to know about the next Beamdog's project

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  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,278
    deltago said:

    So there is actually new news and you'll are off on this tangent. SMH.

    So as mentioned by @Sir_Garrick here, PC gamer did a bit of sleuthing from a video released by Next Level which can be watched from the PC gamer link, or here on the forum that points closer and closer to a Planescape setting game. Called Planescape:Unraveled.

    As nice as those one or two screenshots are they are not the best source of news we've had. The best place for leaks is not @PhillipDaigle's trash (you can stop rummaging now @Anduin), but the talented Amy Cornelson's Art Station.

    Now only a few (which have been posted before, but many have been expanded) have been labeled with the Beamdog tag. (We did however miss the sprite list of Merchants, Townfolk, Thugs and entertainers found here, but others that have been posted more recently (a couple of days ago) that share the same colour palette as the Minotaur, and have different variations to the work, which means it is a concept art for something, unlike say her eerie Rose Man picture which is a one and done.

    Images like The Nobleman, The Golden Lord, The Corrupted Mother, and the NPC like Scholar, Witch ,and Ramsa, and even the monstrous pictures of Poison, Warrior Bot, Demon and Efreeta could all play a part in this new game.

    Yeah there's a Eurogamer story about all of this. Great news for Ps:T superfans if it's true. Me, I'd rather have a more BG-esque new game.

    BelgarathMTHOrlonKronsteen
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Yeah there's a Eurogamer story about all of this. Great news for Ps:T superfans if it's true. Me, I'd rather have a more BG-esque new game.
    Agreed. Looks increasingly like our hopes for a bg-esque game should be invested in another company.

    Nice bit of sleuthing @deltago

    BelgarathMTH
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited November 2017
    What do you mean by "BG-esque"?

    Set in the Forgotten Realms?

    Plot that sticks closely to "the heroes journey"?

    Choose class and race of the protagonist?

    Baldur's Gate combat system?

    Party size of six?


    Because apart from the first one there is no reason the new Planescape game can't have those features. (Combat will have to use 5e rules, irrespective of setting).

    ThacoBellkillerrabbitkanisatha
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    ThacoBell said:

    Fardragon said:

    What do you mean by "BG-esque"?

    Set in the Forgotten Realms?

    Plot that sticks closely to "the heroes journey"?

    Choose class and race of the protagonist?

    Baldur's Gate combat system?

    Party size of six?


    Because apart from the first one there is no reason the new Planescape game can't have those features. (Combat will have to use 5e rules, irrespective of setting).

    Agreed, I just REALLY hope they don't try to make another glorified visual novel pretending to be an RPG *coughPSTcough*
    Actually, PST is fulfills the "role-playing" part of "RPG" better than most games that get put under the RPG banner. It's right up there with Ultima IV in my book.

    megamike15tbone1killerrabbitArunsun
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,628
    pst has skill checks. that makes it more an rpg then bg sans sod.

    Sylvus_Moonbow
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Fardragon said:

    What do you mean by "BG-esque"?

    Set in the Forgotten Realms?

    Plot that sticks closely to "the heroes journey"?

    Choose class and race of the protagonist?

    Baldur's Gate combat system?

    Party size of six?


    Because apart from the first one there is no reason the new Planescape game can't have those features. (Combat will have to use 5e rules, irrespective of setting).

    I mean 'feel'.

    I liked PS:T and was happy that BD allowed me to play it again. One of the great RPGS, no question there. Torment stands alongside BG2, Ultima [*] and PoE. If BD is making PS:T2 I'll probably buy it.

    But, like with PoE, I've only played PS:T through two or three times. Compare this to the gagillion times I've played BG.

    So why do these two great games have a different feel?

    1. Yes, setting. PS:T was great despite the whole cockroach charm, severed arm club aesthetic. Didn't care for the art or the whole gangland-LA in space vibe. Says a great deal about the quality of the writing that I liked PS:T *despite* the setting.

    (and the concept art for the BD game is so fugly, don't want that on my screen)

    2. Yep, I like the hero's quest. "Make way evil!" Which isn't really the PS:T thing, is it?

    3. Yes, BG game engine 'feel'. I would be much happier if this was an IE game. Beamdog tells they know to give us the IE feel on a modern engine. Which is the same thing Obsidian told us -- and they were mistaken. If the game has a PoE or Sword Coasts Legends feel I'm not so excited.


    [*] as @AstroBryGuy reminds me.

    TL;DR I'm guessing I'll read the reviews, buy it, play it, delete it and forget it. And continue to hope someone makes a BG-esque game that can replayed a gagillion times.

    kanisatha
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,908
    edited November 2017
    Just asking, @killerrabbit , what are your thoughts about Pillars of Eternity, Divinity: Original Sin 2 and Dragon Age: Origins? Arent's they BG-esque games that can replayed a gagillion times? If not, why (for each of these games, if you could)

    killerrabbitThacoBell
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    In some ways I think Pillars is more like PST, with its allegories, metaphysics, and extreme characters. It's Chris Avallone's style.

    killerrabbit
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,628
    story vvise pillers is like pst but gameplay vvise it's bg.

    kanisathaThacoBell
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,584
    While PS:T is arguably a better RPG if you take the meaning of RPG litterally - Roleplaying game. PST really emphasized on building your character and making your choices, and these actually matter later on, and you can really build an alignment - Baldur's Gate has a much more epic feeling. The story is a lot more straightforward - though well-written enough for it to outclass many other RPGs- but it feels more epic, if only because it's more fight-oriented.
    IMHO, BG-esque is this subtle combination of good writing along with a rather cliché but well-written story and a very high replayability that will satisfy the roleplayer as well as the strategist. It doesn't have much to do with the setting, Dragonlance would certainly do the job too, for example. Any medieval setup with a bit of magic here and there would be fine actually. And the reason why many of us didn't enjoy ToB as much as BG and SoA is because it kinda broke that balance, throwing in everything towards fighting super powerful enemies and eventually being given the opportunity of being a god, while forgetting the good writing part.

    killerrabbitkanisathaOrlonKronsteen
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    @JuliusBorisov

    Thanks for the invite :)

    Haven't played divinity: original sin 2 yet, reviews are mixed so I'm waiting for it get cheaper.

    Dragon Age -- the engine was sluggish and the art unattractive. Bought it cheap and wish I hadn't. Played for about an hour and stopped. I'm just a partisan of the isometric view (even with adjustable camera angles). I would buy an IE conversion of DA.

    1. PoE -- lurved the art, it's what a fantasy RPG should look like. Hands down, best story in an RPG. Ever. Durance is the best "romance" ever. I'm even partial to J.E. Sawyer -- guy does a great job of communicating with fans and taking their input seriously. But, replay wise?

    a. Engine was sluggish. I would tell the game to pause and it would respond seconds later. (which matters in the PoE rule system -- seconds are rounds). So I gave up trying. I ended up just set up the PCs and then letting the AI take over. I'm watching the action, not immersed in it. Battles were a chore.

    With BG I feel like I can get the characters to do what I want them to do -- makes it feel like my PC instead of a chose your own adventure story. (also true of the oh-so-flawed Temple of Elemental Evil. I could make my PC do what I wanted it to do)

    Can't emphasize this point enough.

    b. The icewind dale "puzzle battle" problem. J.E. Sawyer's combat encounters have a key and lock quality -- there is a best strategy to follow to win. Which makes them fun on the first go around. But less so on the second. And why would you want to do that exact same thing a third time? Compare that to Firkragg. I've had fun beating the dragon with solo mages, clerics, rangers . . . Each time a different strategy was needed.

    c. The super kobald problem. I want leveling up to count. Meaning that a some point I want the lowly scion of librarian #4 -- who couldn't even make it across a bridge guarded by *kobalds* -- to be able to kill a kobald with a backhanded slap. What does it mean to be level 8 when the Kobald "champion" just made you have to reload?

    (worst ever example is Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor -- now the zombies are purple! And they just killed your level 10 demigod. Damn purple zombie.)

    d. Strongholds. In BG2, each class got it's own expanded set of adventures -- which made me want to try the game with a different class each time. PoE did have some nice differences in dialogue options but those aren't *so* different that I feel compelled to replay it again.

    e. Linearity. No game compares to BG1 in terms of freedom to do what you want. PoE doesn't really feel open until you make it to the city. And that takes some time.

    g. Sometimes the PoE no alignment system worked for me, sometimes it didn't. Took away from the heroic narrative.

    h. This is a hard point to make and I'm not sure the words will come to me but -- while PoE had the better story -- there was something compelling about the fact that BG2s story was unfinished. I kept filling in the gaps with my imagination. It should end this way! Or that!

    Which is something different than the "unanswered questions" or the hook for the sequel ( as in 2001 -- who was putting the monoliths there in the first place? We have to know!)

    Strange as it might seem, something about the quality of PoE's story gave it less replay value. The end was so satisfying. "Ahh. I've figured out." Completed that puzzle. Time to put it on the shelf.

    So, like with french fries, it seems that the trick is make a story that is delicious but not satisfying.

    JuliusBorisovOrlonKronsteen
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    @killerrabbit, you keep saying the engine was slow on games... That sounds like a "your mileage may vary" thing. /shrug

    killerrabbitThacoBell
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,438
    I just hope it’s semi-faithful to the 5e ruleset and I can play a gnome bard. If Sword Coast Legends had gnomes and Bards I could forgive it for its garbage rendition of 5e.

    killerrabbitprocco
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    aasimir, tieflings, genesai are more important to the Planescape setting than gnomes. The different races are one if the things that would set it apart from more generic settings.

    PS DOS2 is awesome.

  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402

    @killerrabbit, you keep saying the engine was slow on games... That sounds like a "your mileage may vary" thing. /shrug

    Oh sure, I've owned a series of crappy laptops and not gaming machines. Current laptop is actually pretty powerful but that was just the way the dice turned up. I buy used, well-reviewed and cheap.

    Only speaking for myself. (although if you remember the roll out of BG1 EE, beamdog underestimated the number of potential customers who use low end equipment who haven't signed up on the forum. Still think there is a market for Infinity Engine D&D modules . . .)

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,278
    ThacoBell said:

    Agreed, I just REALLY hope they don't try to make another glorified visual novel pretending to be an RPG *coughPSTcough*

    ^This is sort of what I was getting at too. I also agree with the "feel" arguments. But ultimately, if it is a six-person party-based, isometric, single-player RPG at least partially set in the Forgotten Realms, and using 5e rules, I will be ecstatic and wholly satisfied. :smiley:

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009

    ThacoBell said:

    Fardragon said:

    What do you mean by "BG-esque"?

    Set in the Forgotten Realms?

    Plot that sticks closely to "the heroes journey"?

    Choose class and race of the protagonist?

    Baldur's Gate combat system?

    Party size of six?


    Because apart from the first one there is no reason the new Planescape game can't have those features. (Combat will have to use 5e rules, irrespective of setting).

    Agreed, I just REALLY hope they don't try to make another glorified visual novel pretending to be an RPG *coughPSTcough*
    Actually, PST is fulfills the "role-playing" part of "RPG" better than most games that get put under the RPG banner. It's right up there with Ultima IV in my book.
    Sure it fulfills the "You build a role around your character part" but it UTTERLY FAILS the "playing" or "game" parts. They should have just gone full visual novel or even an actual book, instead of tricking people into thinking it was a game.

    Dev6OrlonKronsteen
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,628
    are you really pulling the visual novels arnt games card?

    planescape torment is a game it's a story focus game. i guess adventure games arnt games novv.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited November 2017

    are you really pulling the visual novels arnt games card?

    But it's a novel, so...
    ThacoBell said:

    Sure it fulfills the "You build a role around your character part" but it UTTERLY FAILS the "playing" or "game" parts. They should have just gone full visual novel or even an actual book, instead of tricking people into thinking it was a game.

    :D:D Oh, boy... this is a mess.



  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Dev6OrlonKronsteen
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636

    I don't think it's too much to ask for a product to be both a good game and a good story.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree, because I thin PST was both. /shrug

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009

    are you really pulling the visual novels arnt games card?

    planescape torment is a game it's a story focus game. i guess adventure games arnt games novv.

    Yes I am. They are novels on a screen, not games. A choose your own adventure book with a budget.

    Dev6
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    ThacoBell said:

    are you really pulling the visual novels arnt games card?

    planescape torment is a game it's a story focus game. i guess adventure games arnt games novv.

    Yes I am. They are novels on a screen, not games. A choose your own adventure book with a budget.
    That's a ridiculous assertion. Who made you the arbiter of what is and isn't a "game"?

    There are many great adventure games, including some of the earliest computer games like Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, King's Quest, Myst... You may not like the genre, but that doesn't make them "not games".

    Planescape certainly IS a game. There is greater emphasis on story and character development than your typical CRPG, but is it still a game, and a damn good one, IMHO.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,793
    lefreut said:
    Glad to know this strategy still works.

    Ok, lets start a rumour about Beamdog starting a new Forgotten Realms game. If they don't come out and say "we're not working on this," then that means, they're working on it.

    proccoSjerrieOrlonKronsteenkanisatha
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    deltago said:

    lefreut said:
    Glad to know this strategy still works.

    Ok, lets start a rumour about Beamdog starting a new Forgotten Realms game. If they don't come out and say "we're not working on this," then that means, they're working on it.
    You are assuming that they always tell the truth.

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