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  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,999

    @Pantalion Better Thac0 and apr, which adds to safety also. Don't know if M/C can tank Belhifet with LoB like F/M/C.

    Doesn't quite work by the SoD cap, but have you considered Lesser Sequencer + DUHM/Spiritual Hammer + Spider polymorph self for SoA? 4+1 APR, +3 hammer, 20+ Strength.

    In terms of the tanking example, I'd say the edge goes to an I/C, since they'll be sitting on an extra two level 5 mage spells and an extra level 1 through 4 along with gnome saving throws. Not quite the same capacity to counter attack in melee though.

    histamiini
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 473
    edited January 12
    @Pantalion Hmm no, but M/C is probably going to be my next class, so have to take something like that into consideration.

    Playing F/M/C I've longed F/I actually more in SoA, and natural 9th level spells, so I could cast Chain Contingency onto myself without losing one of the scrolls. Cleric spells are nice, although I've only used like Sanctuary, AoF, Animate Dead (mage gets this too), and Harm for Gauth xp loop. But F/I would have better Thac0, more hp, better saves, natural 9th level spells and all the weapons at disposal, at the xp cap. F/M gets Skull Traps though, which is probably almost as good as better saves and more spells.

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 473
    edited January 12
    @Pantalion Forgot about Silence 15' which I've used also, and True Sight, and Farsight, very useful although mage gets this too. I play with LoB SCS, so some of those aren't really useful, because enemies get +5 saves, and x3+80 hp. Like Holy Smite mostly tickles them. Doom is good, especially with Greater Malison, but never needed it, and I'm chapter 6 for SoA already.

    Algernon/Nymph cloak and Sandthief invisibility can pretty much charm everybody risk free who needs to be charmed in BG1, and with almost any class. SoA you get Staff of Command and Control Circlets which can dominate and charm without save (or even bypass MR for Control Circlet) for almost every class. PfU pretty much negates Undead for every class in the whole series.

    Post edited by histamiini on
    semiticgod
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 4,140
    Pantalion said:

    ThacoBell said:

    Mages: Breaking the power curve since forever.

    Let's not pretend that any of the other classes are adding much to this particular equation.
    Only with lots of prep before hand. Any Archer or ranged wizard slayer can take them down easy before a single spell gets off.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,969
    Pantalion said:


    Doesn't quite work by the SoD cap, but have you considered Lesser Sequencer + DUHM/Spiritual Hammer + Spider polymorph self for SoA? 4+1 APR, +3 hammer, 20+ Strength.

    I forgot about this entirely! Three things:

    1. It's entirely possible to use the spider gnome trick in SoD. You only need 7 mage levels to do it; all it takes is Polymorph Self and a Shocking Grasp Minor Sequencer to remove the spider weapon, allowing you to equip any weapon as a spider with 4 base APR. A cleric/mage can hit level 9/10 by the end of SoD, so their DUHM will give them 21 STR if you use the lich's robe to put Holy Power in a Spell Sequencer.
    2. An EE update removed this exploit entirely from SoA, and I would think that v2.5 removed it from SoD by now.
    3. Since Holy Power will only last 9 rounds for a maxed-out cleric/mage, the spider gnome trick will only take 300 HP out of Belhifet if using the +3 hammer and all the relevant bonuses and buffing spells. When Holy Power runs out, your damage output will drop dramatically, even if you use Detect Illusion scrolls to deal with Belhifet's Improved Invisibility. The fight would easily take 50-70 rounds, enough to outlast a set of Potions of Power. The cleric/mage will probably need some critical hits from the Martyr's Morningstar to take down Belhifet in relative safety.
    Pantalion said:


    Implosion: Ignores MR, automatically stuns the target for 1 round, deals two types of damage, and fits on Spell Trigger or Chain Contingency, I forget which.

    It should fit in a Chain Contingency but not a Spell Trigger, unless your SCS install makes it into an innate spell, in which case it will fit into neither. Bear in mind that Implosion uses the "hold" opcode, opcode 109, not the stun opcode, opcode 45, which means it will work against demons who would be immune to stun effects.

    histamiiniArctodusStummvonBordwehrthar_thaazdhen
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,999

    Pantalion said:


    Doesn't quite work by the SoD cap, but have you considered Lesser Sequencer + DUHM/Spiritual Hammer + Spider polymorph self for SoA? 4+1 APR, +3 hammer, 20+ Strength.

    I forgot about this entirely! Three things:

    1. It's entirely possible to use the spider gnome trick in SoD. You only need 7 mage levels to do it; all it takes is Polymorph Self and a Shocking Grasp Minor Sequencer to remove the spider weapon, allowing you to equip any weapon as a spider with 4 base APR. A cleric/mage can hit level 9/10 by the end of SoD, so their DUHM will give them 21 STR if you use the lich's robe to put Holy Power in a Spell Sequencer.
    2. An EE update removed this exploit entirely from SoA, and I would think that v2.5 removed it from SoD by now.
    3. Since Holy Power will only last 9 rounds for a maxed-out cleric/mage, the spider gnome trick will only take 300 HP out of Belhifet if using the +3 hammer and all the relevant bonuses and buffing spells. When Holy Power runs out, your damage output will drop dramatically, even if you use Detect Illusion scrolls to deal with Belhifet's Improved Invisibility. The fight would easily take 50-70 rounds, enough to outlast a set of Potions of Power. The cleric/mage will probably need some critical hits from the Martyr's Morningstar to take down Belhifet in relative safety.
    Wouldn't the hammer only be +2 at the SoD cap?

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,999
    ThacoBell said:

    Pantalion said:

    ThacoBell said:

    Mages: Breaking the power curve since forever.

    Let's not pretend that any of the other classes are adding much to this particular equation.
    Only with lots of prep before hand. Any Archer or ranged wizard slayer can take them down easy before a single spell gets off.
    Invisibility is "lots of prep" now? Because neither of those two things has any means of dealing with a mage they can't see and invisibility lasts longer than resting does.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 4,140
    Pantalion said:

    ThacoBell said:

    Pantalion said:

    ThacoBell said:

    Mages: Breaking the power curve since forever.

    Let's not pretend that any of the other classes are adding much to this particular equation.
    Only with lots of prep before hand. Any Archer or ranged wizard slayer can take them down easy before a single spell gets off.
    Invisibility is "lots of prep" now? Because neither of those two things has any means of dealing with a mage they can't see and invisibility lasts longer than resting does.
    Think your mage can cast invis before the Archer kills you?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,969
    Invisibility is instant-casting with the Robe of Vecna, and even if you just have the Amulet of Power, it should be fast enough to activate before the first arrow hits, unless the Archer is right next to the mage. At higher levels, the mage will have Stoneskin active at all times, and at higher levels still, the mage will have Invisibility or Stoneskin contingencies.

    Or you could just drink a Potion of Invisibility. But that speaks to the power of those potions more than it does to the power of any class.

    @Pantalion: I'm not referring to the hammer from Spiritual Hammer; I'm referring to the +3 Earthquake hammer from SoD. Assuming the spider gnome trick still works, you can equip any weapon in spider form by simply dispelling the spider weapon using a Shocking Grasp spell via a Minor Sequencer. When you expend the Shocking Grasp weapon, you'll be left with no magical weapon, allowing you to equip any weapon you want.

    Also, the Enchanted Weapon spell can make a +2 Spiritual Hammer strike as +3, allowing you to hit Belhifet with it.

    StummvonBordwehrthar_thaazdhen
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 1,999
    Personally my mages don't tend to spend much time not invisible. Again, it lasts longer than resting does, and it's a great bugout spell so there's no reason not to keep a few slots dedicated to it. As semiticgod says, with RoV it casts fast enough that as soon as "Attacks f00" shows up you can be invisible and untargetable.


    @Pantalion: I'm not referring to the hammer from Spiritual Hammer; I'm referring to the +3 Earthquake hammer from SoD. Assuming the spider gnome trick still works, you can equip any weapon in spider form by simply dispelling the spider weapon using a Shocking Grasp spell via a Minor Sequencer. When you expend the Shocking Grasp weapon, you'll be left with no magical weapon, allowing you to equip any weapon you want.

    Also, the Enchanted Weapon spell can make a +2 Spiritual Hammer strike as +3, allowing you to hit Belhifet with it.

    Ah. I was referring to Spiritual Hammer under the belief that they'd "fixed" the mage spells but left cleric spells intact.

    Hm, the new Enchanted Weapon is a good point I hadn't considered actually, at least in BG2 when it gets the no save poison it's hardly worth replacing anyway.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 4,140
    Once that first arrow flies though, it will hit if a hit was rolled before invis was cast. Good luck surviving taht called shot with poison arrows.

    Aerakar
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,390

    The run is over! KowalLazy completed the game in only 24 minutes and 31 seconds.

    It was done on an old version of BG2EE and only went through SoA. Disappointing.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,969
    My only disappointment was that the speedrunner clicked on Charname instead of using the hotkey "1." That one key could have saved literally seconds of time.

    JuliusBorisovWise_Grimwald
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,258
    Talking less would also have helped.
    I only did not know about the scroll swap trick, that it takes longer for the scroll to be consumed than to have the spell cast. The rest was just the generic boring familiar and dialogue tricks.

    FlashburnWise_Grimwald
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,512
    Raduziel said:

    Guys, the dude was playing to raise money for charity. That deserves an applause no matter how he (or she?) did it.

    Depends on the charity. If it's to encourage the survival of people who drive slow in the passing lane, then no. If it's a charity that pays for people to go around and slap celebrities, then I'm all for it.

    FlashburnWise_GrimwaldBalrog99
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,258
    edited January 14
    Sure. I like charity and you are right to correct us. I had no idea it was about charity though.

    It's just that speedruns have been done like this for so many times I expected something new and exciting. Perhaps the knowledge of past methods and having read up on bg speedruns quite recently (having done one for bgee using non standard methods) is holding me back from being wowed.

    FlashburnWise_Grimwald
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 489
    edited January 14
    Well, why don't we work on a 2.5 BG2+ToB RTA (real time attack) route? We're the ones in the best position to create such a run...

  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 1,319
    edited January 15
    Artona said:Well, um, technically, dying to Shank counts as finished speedrun, no?
    :D

    semiticgod said:I just checked the total and by the end of the final run of Breath of the Wild, AGDQ raised over $2.2 million for the Prevent Cancer Foundation
    That's Greeeaat!!

    semiticgod
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,512
    I figured there might have been a good bit of irony, intentional or inadvertent, in the name.

    JoenSoWise_GrimwaldThacoBellJuliusBorisov
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 4,140
    Speedruns are a weird spot for me. I usually would rather go completionist all the way, but once every decade or so, a game comes along that I just HAVE to speed run a few times.

    mlneveseWise_Grimwald
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