@mlnevese Maybe you could speedrun a completionist playthrough of the whole BG saga, OCD style. You could develop strats to go through each map of the game the fastest possible way... Doesn't that sound fun ?
You guys want a magical tank that's safe go blade.
Before you even hit chapter 3 in bg2ee you can get 5 or more spins and your spells are more powerful than any mage you have running with you.
Offensive spin let's you intercept almost anything, they go after you due to light armor and high AC, then you drop into defensive spin and sit several points below any warrior (npc at least) plus the most skins on stoneskin. If magic is a problem, poly slime. It works with defensive spin.
Summons? Wand.of cloudkill. Undead? There's an axe for that. Stuns? Grab your katana. Golems? MMM. This is before use any item.
Like all.of this with a negative 15 (give or take) AC and the ability to uproot and shred stray mobs.
Beastly!
Okay maybe not what anyone was really asking for but holy crap did I just discovered blades are amazing
You guys want a magical tank that's safe go blade.
Before you even hit chapter 3 in bg2ee you can get 5 or more spins and your spells are more powerful than any mage you have running with you.
Offensive spin let's you intercept almost anything, they go after you due to light armor and high AC, then you drop into defensive spin and sit several points below any warrior (npc at least) plus the most skins on stoneskin. If magic is a problem, poly slime. It works with defensive spin.
Summons? Wand.of cloudkill. Undead? There's an axe for that. Stuns? Grab your katana. Golems? MMM. This is before use any item.
Like all.of this with a negative 15 (give or take) AC and the ability to uproot and shred stray mobs.
Beastly!
Okay maybe not what anyone was really asking for but holy crap did I just discovered blades are amazing
Dammit! I was almost to chapter 6 with my assassin/fighter and now you've got me wanting to restart with a blade. I swear I never finish anything anymore.
You guys want a magical tank that's safe go blade.
Before you even hit chapter 3 in bg2ee you can get 5 or more spins and your spells are more powerful than any mage you have running with you.
Offensive spin let's you intercept almost anything, they go after you due to light armor and high AC, then you drop into defensive spin and sit several points below any warrior (npc at least) plus the most skins on stoneskin. If magic is a problem, poly slime. It works with defensive spin.
Summons? Wand.of cloudkill. Undead? There's an axe for that. Stuns? Grab your katana. Golems? MMM. This is before use any item.
Like all.of this with a negative 15 (give or take) AC and the ability to uproot and shred stray mobs.
Beastly!
Okay maybe not what anyone was really asking for but holy crap did I just discovered blades are amazing
Dammit! I was almost to chapter 6 with my assassin/fighter and now you've got me wanting to restart with a blade. I swear I never finish anything anymore.
Lol I don't even play a variety of classes and I'm like this. But yeah, playing on Core Rules, blades are just absurd. Your offensive spin stacks with spider form for John Wick style killing at double hasted speeds. MMM is better because you get more meteors and offensive spin enhances this too. specialize in two weapon style plus crossbow, axe, katana, and flail. now with enough gold you get a +4 crossbow, a flail that reduces physical damage by 20% and gives +1 to AC, a katana that stuns, and an axe that instakills undead.
john.wick.
then if you STILL want more cast polyself in athkatla, wait for the cowled kids to show up, shapechange into slime with a wand of cloudkill and murder them by the group for easy XP and free, high level magic scrolls.
only like, 3 (individuals, not groups) of them have any idea how to deal with that, so you'll kill more than Irenicus ever did.
oh and don't forget you can drop dragons with a minor sequencer after debuffing him. double chromatic orb FTW
In all seriousness, opinions are fine and all. Blades are fun and versatile, you get a bit of everything. But if you really want to assert “strongest single class”, I’m just going to laugh for a while
It really all depends on how you define "strong." The ideal class for a no-reload run (I'd say Berserker/Mage) is most definitely not the ideal class for a speedrun (apparently a Blade), and the character with the highest damage output per round (Kensai/Thief) is most definitely not the most user-friendly or easy to play (probably a fighter of some sort).
It's a bit like asking whether a hammer or a screwdriver is a better tool. You can make arguments about which is more useful and which is more necessary, but the best way to understand them is not to lavish praise on one or scorn the other, but simply to document the uses of each tool.
Yeah, Bards still get so much undeserved hate even with Blades being the strongest single class and still being on par with several multiclasses.
That's a tough decision because it involves wether you decide to micromanage the class or not. My blade is tough and resourceful, but I still need to rely on the party's fighters for quick damage dealing or immediate tanking.
@Jaheiras_Witness It's all about versatility. The game throws thousands of different encounters at you and no single strategy (barring cheese and engine exploits) will carry you all the way through. The class that allows to bring the most effective options to any needed encounter if going to be the strongest. Not in a pure damage race, but in GENERAL EFFECTIVENESS.
Blades stand out among the single classes because you can literally throw whatever you want at any problem and be able to do so competently. Its the same reason Multiclasses are so much better than just about any single class. You get almost all of the strengths and tactics of your component classes with reduced leveling being the only downside. And with proper tactics, levels aren't really an issue for multiclasses anyway.
Did you know that both Tiax and Viconia doesn't meet the prerequisites for being a Strifeleader of Cyric and a Nightcloak of Shar, respectively?
A Strifeleader needs STR 13 and Tiax only has 9.
A Nightcloak of Shar needs STR 14 and Viconia only has 10.
As 9, 10, 13 and 14 scores in STR don't change anything except for weight allowance, boosting those stats to meet the prerequisites would not be a game-breaking or powergaming choice.
Did you know that both Tiax and Viconia doesn't meet the prerequisites for being a Strifeleader of Cyric and a Nightcloak of Shar, respectively?
A Strifeleader needs STR 13 and Tiax only has 9.
A Nightcloak of Shar needs STR 14 and Viconia only has 10.
As 9, 10, 13 and 14 scores in STR don't change anything except for weight allowance, boosting those stats to meet the prerequisites would not be a game-breaking or powergaming choice.
Two more illegals characters
Since you're discussing the legality of kits, in Viconia's defense she has no kit related abilities either
In addition to your examples, stalkers are supposed to possess intelligence 14 (if I recall) , and Valygar's is 10. Another illegal case.
@Jaheiras_Witness It's all about versatility. The game throws thousands of different encounters at you and no single strategy (barring cheese and engine exploits) will carry you all the way through. The class that allows to bring the most effective options to any needed encounter if going to be the strongest. Not in a pure damage race, but in GENERAL EFFECTIVENESS.
Blades stand out among the single classes because you can literally throw whatever you want at any problem and be able to do so competently. Its the same reason Multiclasses are so much better than just about any single class. You get almost all of the strengths and tactics of your component classes with reduced leveling being the only downside. And with proper tactics, levels aren't really an issue for multiclasses anyway.
Pretty much my whole point as well. Blades literally have an answer for everything. And if you don't like that answer, you can always steal.
Their "on the fly" responses to random stuff are absurdly good as well, so you don't have to pre plan everything.
Yeah, Bards still get so much undeserved hate even with Blades being the strongest single class and still being on par with several multiclasses.
That's a tough decision because it involves wether you decide to micromanage the class or not. My blade is tough and resourceful, but I still need to rely on the party's fighters for quick damage dealing or immediate tanking.
Really? What difficulty are you on? My tanks are too fragile lol
It really all depends on how you define "strong." The ideal class for a no-reload run (I'd say Berserker/Mage) is most definitely not the ideal class for a speedrun (apparently a Blade), and the character with the highest damage output per round (Kensai/Thief) is most definitely not the most user-friendly or easy to play (probably a fighter of some sort).
It's a bit like asking whether a hammer or a screwdriver is a better tool. You can make arguments about which is more useful and which is more necessary, but the best way to understand them is not to lavish praise on one or scorn the other, but simply to document the uses of each tool.
Why beserker mage, though? I'd think thief/mage would be much more ideal.
@dearolddave: It's about the immunities. Berserkers get undispellable immunity to practically every disabler in the entire game whenever Enrage is active, which is perfect for no-reload play because disablers and instant death effects are easily the number one cause of deaths in no-reload runs. It's entirely possible to get all the immunities you need from other sources, but it requires a lot of metagame knowledge to patch every hole in your defenses. Being immune to a bunch of things at once allows the player to make some stupid mistakes every now and then and still survive. Without those immunities, one bad move can end a no-reload run.
Then you can dual-class to mage in SoD (if you dual-class at a relatively low level) or BG2 (in which case level 9 is probably ideal). BG2 is very magic-oriented, especially with tactical mods installed, and being a single-classed mage is a great way to fortify your defenses. A Berserker/Mage can have high HP, mage buffs, comprehensive immunities, and can equip some nice defensive equipment to boot.
They're not the best fighter (I'd say Dwarven Defender), the best mage (I'd say Sorcerer), or the best Fighter/Mage (I'd say Fighter/Illusionist), but it's the one class that's most likely to stay alive when the player does something stupid.
Did you know that both Tiax and Viconia doesn't meet the prerequisites for being a Strifeleader of Cyric and a Nightcloak of Shar, respectively?
A Strifeleader needs STR 13 and Tiax only has 9.
A Nightcloak of Shar needs STR 14 and Viconia only has 10.
As 9, 10, 13 and 14 scores in STR don't change anything except for weight allowance, boosting those stats to meet the prerequisites would not be a game-breaking or powergaming choice.
Two more illegals characters
Since you're discussing the legality of kits, in Viconia's defense she has no kit related abilities either
In addition to your examples, stalkers are supposed to possess intelligence 14 (if I recall) , and Valygar's is 10. Another illegal case.
Did you know how good Wand of Wonder really is? It has 50 charges and 1/7 chance of petrificating target with no save (MR negates). And because all other effects than Lighting Bolt doesn't agro, and because Lightning Bolt itself has a casting time which you can cancel, you can basically Petrificate every non agro enemy, like dragons without any risk.
Did you know how good Wand of Wonder really is? It has 50 charges and 1/7 chance of petrificating target with no save (MR negates). And because all other effects than Lighting Bolt doesn't agro, and because Lightning Bolt itself has a casting time which you can cancel, you can basically Petrificate every non agro enemy, like dragons without any risk.
One the first examples of the Jester (by Roger E. Moore) class I saw wayyy back in The Dragon magazines let them use the WoW without expending charges and also had a 5% chance/lvl of controlling the output. Now THAT would be a nice modification.
If you don't speak to Aldeth Sashenstar in Cloakwood, neither he nor his brother Dabron will be present in Baldur's Gate. But you can travel back to Cloakwood at a later time, solve his problem with the druids either way, and go back to Baldur's Gate to meet either Aldeth or Dabron.
The Bronze Sentry in that Dwarven tomb in SOD has no resistance to cold damage. Since it hits like a truck, has loads of hit points, is immune to missile damage, and is immune to/resists most other elemental damage, your best bet is to cycle a wand of frost between 2 or more arcane casters and kite the thing to death.
The Bronze Sentry in that Dwarven tomb in SOD has no resistance to cold damage. Since it hits like a truck, has loads of hit points, is immune to missile damage, and is immune to/resists most other elemental damage, your best bet is to cycle a wand of frost between 2 or more arcane casters and kite the thing to death.
Are you talking about the Dwarves of Dumathoin Quest or another one?
I'm getting antsy and itchy like Lilarcor waiting for the 2.5 patch! I'm like:
"Boring. Boring. BorIIING!" "Can we go kill something now, huh?" "Can we go whack something now?" "C'mon, what about now? Let's KILL!" "C'mon c'mon, let's go whack something evil. "Come on let's kill something NOW!" "Come on, what about now? No? C'mon, c'mon! I'm getting itchy, let's GO!"
I've found two ways to speed up the quest with the Priestess of Velsharoon in Bridgefort, so you don't have to go out of the fort and get attacked by wights out there before skipping to the end. First, if your PC is a cleric, you can call her out on getting her theology wrong and she attacks. Another way is to pickpocket her for an item that belonged to one of the dead people, and if you then confront her about the ring, she attacks. I don't know if it's necessary for the PC to be a thief or bard to pull that off, though. Having a cleric that's not the PC talk to her isn't enough, so it's hard to say.
Comments
Before you even hit chapter 3 in bg2ee you can get 5 or more spins and your spells are more powerful than any mage you have running with you.
Offensive spin let's you intercept almost anything, they go after you due to light armor and high AC, then you drop into defensive spin and sit several points below any warrior (npc at least) plus the most skins on stoneskin. If magic is a problem, poly slime. It works with defensive spin.
Summons? Wand.of cloudkill. Undead? There's an axe for that. Stuns? Grab your katana. Golems? MMM. This is before use any item.
Like all.of this with a negative 15 (give or take) AC and the ability to uproot and shred stray mobs.
Beastly!
Okay maybe not what anyone was really asking for but holy crap did I just discovered blades are amazing
john.wick.
then if you STILL want more cast polyself in athkatla, wait for the cowled kids to show up, shapechange into slime with a wand of cloudkill and murder them by the group for easy XP and free, high level magic scrolls.
only like, 3 (individuals, not groups) of them have any idea how to deal with that, so you'll kill more than Irenicus ever did.
oh and don't forget you can drop dragons with a minor sequencer after debuffing him. double chromatic orb FTW
blades should be nerfed.
In all seriousness, opinions are fine and all. Blades are fun and versatile, you get a bit of everything. But if you really want to assert “strongest single class”, I’m just going to laugh for a while
It's a bit like asking whether a hammer or a screwdriver is a better tool. You can make arguments about which is more useful and which is more necessary, but the best way to understand them is not to lavish praise on one or scorn the other, but simply to document the uses of each tool.
Blades stand out among the single classes because you can literally throw whatever you want at any problem and be able to do so competently. Its the same reason Multiclasses are so much better than just about any single class. You get almost all of the strengths and tactics of your component classes with reduced leveling being the only downside. And with proper tactics, levels aren't really an issue for multiclasses anyway.
A Strifeleader needs STR 13 and Tiax only has 9.
A Nightcloak of Shar needs STR 14 and Viconia only has 10.
As 9, 10, 13 and 14 scores in STR don't change anything except for weight allowance, boosting those stats to meet the prerequisites would not be a game-breaking or powergaming choice.
Two more illegals characters
In addition to your examples, stalkers are supposed to possess intelligence 14 (if I recall) , and Valygar's is 10. Another illegal case.
Their "on the fly" responses to random stuff are absurdly good as well, so you don't have to pre plan everything.
Then you can dual-class to mage in SoD (if you dual-class at a relatively low level) or BG2 (in which case level 9 is probably ideal). BG2 is very magic-oriented, especially with tactical mods installed, and being a single-classed mage is a great way to fortify your defenses. A Berserker/Mage can have high HP, mage buffs, comprehensive immunities, and can equip some nice defensive equipment to boot.
They're not the best fighter (I'd say Dwarven Defender), the best mage (I'd say Sorcerer), or the best Fighter/Mage (I'd say Fighter/Illusionist), but it's the one class that's most likely to stay alive when the player does something stupid.
Amazing what you can accomplish when you don't realize that you can't.
About Valygar, just turn him into a Wizard Slayer as it should be.
"Boring. Boring. BorIIING!"
"Can we go kill something now, huh?"
"Can we go whack something now?"
"C'mon, what about now? Let's KILL!"
"C'mon c'mon, let's go whack something evil.
"Come on let's kill something NOW!"
"Come on, what about now? No? C'mon, c'mon! I'm getting itchy, let's GO!"
I had to do rather a lot of sleeping, and having that info could make that unecessary.
Did you know that both Baervan Wildwander and Baravar Cloakshadow doesn't allow their priests to multiclass?
So Quayle, Aerie and Glint are all ineligible for being Fastpaw/Hoodwinker.