Has anyone yet mentioned that picking up Vi nets you a free set of Plate mail quite early on in the game? That certainly has to be a bonus.
For my money, she is my favorite NPC, so I might be biased. But yeah. she is definitely worth it in my book. She has an awesome DEX and has that 50% MR. Plus she is a straight cleric so she levels faster than any other cleric except Branwen. And she is eminently more delectable than the aforementioned Bran-flakes. Plus, she punishes if you get it wrong, and sometimes when you get it right as well.
@reedmilfam It's the principle that's important. She could have been a half-drow or following Eilistraee. She could be the female equivalent of Drizzt. (Though I prefer that she wasn't)
She commited no crimes that we're aware of and the only one being that she's a drow. Maybe she did do something, maybe she didn't. We know that she didn't.
If it was Drizzt in her place and that guard tried to kill him or some other atypical drow, would he have any right or authority to attack him/her?
At least Adjantis and Keldorn have reasons to attack her and it doesn't happen on sight "Drow! Evil! Attack!".
And I would say that yes, they were wrong and she says that she's grateful and she wouldn't make him/her regret it for taking her in the party and saving her. Plus, Viconia CAN be redeemed. It can happen in BG2.
@reedmilfam At least Adjantis and Keldorn have reasons to attack her and it doesn't happen on sight "Drow! Evil! Attack!".
And I would say that yes, they were wrong and she says that she's grateful and she wouldn't make him/her regret it for taking her in the party and saving her. Plus, Viconia CAN be redeemed. It can happen in BG2.
What is the great reason that Adjantis and Keldorn have on a run where the party is helping people? The fact that they don't kill her on sight and do try to kill her after she frees the slaves, saves children and innocents, etc. doesn't commend their view to me. If the reason is that her alignment is evil, they can detect evil and run her through on sight with better justification than after she has helped all these people.
@Chow I say it depends on the Paladin but Paladins are supposed to be unquestionable paragons of goodness and justice. Not church enforcers only. There's a reason Paladins have to be Lawful Good only and not of only alignment like the Cleric.
@AHF I have no idea what the dialogue between Adjantis/Keldorn and Viconia are. I would guess that it's the things she says, I have to test it out, some time.
@AHF I have no idea what the dialogue between Adjantis/Keldorn and Viconia are. I would guess that it's the things she says, I have to test it out, some time.
Still, she's pushing their buttons I would guess.
Most of them are her being yelled at by the paladins and her pushing back. I am doing a BG2 run with them now and he is the aggressor and initiates the vast majority of the dialogue between them.
What is the great reason that Adjantis and Keldorn have on a run where the party is helping people? The fact that they don't kill her on sight and do try to kill her after she frees the slaves, saves children and innocents, etc. doesn't commend their view to me. If the reason is that her alignment is evil, they can detect evil and run her through on sight with better justification than after she has helped all these people.
Um, in the first place it isn't Viconia that 'Frees the slaves'. It is the party of Charname. She could quite reasonably be berating Charname all the way and arguing against it loudly and to anyone who would listen.
In the second, Paladin's 'Detect Evil' is not supposed to be an alignment detector. I want to say that in the 2nd ED DMG it says words exactly to the effect. That a Paladin can sense significant evils such as being from the lower planes and stuff like dragons and undead, but that it isn't a blanket 'Know Alignment' or lie detector. Both of which are higher level magics.
In the second, Paladin's 'Detect Evil' is not supposed to be an alignment detector. I want to say that in the 2nd ED DMG it says words exactly to the effect. That a Paladin can sense significant evils such as being from the lower planes and stuff like dragons and undead, but that it isn't a blanket 'Know Alignment' or lie detector. Both of which are higher level magics.
She could quite reasonably be berating Charname all the way and arguing against it loudly and to anyone who would listen.
She does argue with Charname about a lot of other things over the course of the series but I can't come up with a single example in BG1 or BG2 where she berates Charname for not killing someone. The most she does is say something like, "These people aren't worth your time. They will always be weak if they don't learn to stick up for themselves." What we don't have to speculate on, however, is that she was forced to leave drow society specifically because she wouldn't kill an innocent so it seems strange to think that she is going to berate you for saving a child from wolves because she is "evil" but she put herself at huge risk because she refused to kill an innocent child.
I would say she does very little complaining about "good" things done by the party (including herself) over BG1 and BG2 (as opposed to the complaining you get from other characters when they don't like things like the Paladins complaining about aligning yourself with thieves or vampires, etc.
By the way, we should notice that you're not attacked on sight if you have Viconia with you or Dorn, so I doubt that there's a law that says "kill all drow on sight".
For that reason, I would say that the guard was abusing his authority so was the one in the wrong. Plus, Viconia begged for help and didn't taunt him or attacked him.
By the way, we should notice that you're not attacked on sight if you have Viconia with you or Dorn, so I doubt that there's a law that says "kill all drow on sight".
For that reason, I would say that the guard was abusing his authority so was the one in the wrong. Plus, Viconia begged for help and didn't taunt him or attacked him.
Agreed. (Although I wouldn't put it past Viconia to have taunted him, etc. sometime prior to your meeting her and then run to you begging for protection!)
I still would like her to be a permanent -2 to REP (so it caps at 18 as long as she is in the party). Maybe there are tricks to keep reputation low enough, but I tend to play 'good' and that leads me to permanent 20 REP. I didn't see a way to keep her in the party, short of wanton acts of murder here and there.
I still would like her to be a permanent -2 to REP (so it caps at 18 as long as she is in the party). Maybe there are tricks to keep reputation low enough, but I tend to play 'good' and that leads me to permanent 20 REP. I didn't see a way to keep her in the party, short of wanton acts of murder here and there.
I suppose you can do this manually but I have the same dilemma. It forces me to "break" from character to keep the party together by trying to steal something or kill someone my character otherwise wouldn't.
@AHF. Had it occurred to you that what you hear in the voice clips is only a fraction of the actual dialogue going on? Like in the hours and days and weeks when your party is traveling between areas or in taverns and generally camping?
As far as the Detect evil, I can't say much on that front. Must be dumbed down mechanics would be my guess. Either way, even if he "Knows" she is Evil, I am pretty sure that Paladins aren't in the business of outright killing people merely for washing their clothes while evil.
It's kind of funny people find ways to justify saving Viconia as much as they find ways to justify killing Drizzt. Most people say well Drizzt is a drow and evil so we should kill him on sight. On the flip side Viconia must be saved because she is being chased by a flaming fist! She is a female drow. If you read the books female drow are generally more evil then the males and dominant in the society. I don't see any reason to not take the word of the flamming fist over a drow who worships and evil surface god. I can also point out shes of evil alignment regardless of what people judge her to be by talking to her over the course of the baldur's gate series.
@UnknownQuantity Viconia also refused to kill a child as it has been said and she follows Shar not Lolth. That's a death-sentence for those that defy Lolth. She instead escaped to the surface for it.
The Flaming Fist soldier was racist and wanted to kill her for no reason other than the color of her skin. Viconia didn't do anything wrong as far as we're concerned and she can stop being evil in BG2 if you romance her. Not sure if she becomes True Neutral or Neutral good.
I am planning to run an evil party next time and add Vicky as a prequel to the Romance in BG2 I'm thinking about maybe an Neutral or Chaotic Evil Priest if Talos But might go 1/2 orc Blackgaurd like Dorn Anyway I think Vicky is one of the more interesting characters in BG2
I am planning to run an evil party next time and add Vicky as a prequel to the Romance in BG2 I'm thinking about maybe an Neutral or Chaotic Evil Priest if Talos But might go 1/2 orc Blackgaurd like Dorn Anyway I think Vicky is one of the more interesting characters in BG2
@Oxford_Guy Nah, I don't think so. In my last playthrough in BG2, I had Jaheira and Aerie. Though, those are not two Clerics but two Priests.
@OzzyBotkins How about making a Human Berserker/Cleric instead? You could also make him a Half-Orc Fighter/Cleric. Focusing on the melee and tanking aspect than spells number. Cleric of Talos works too but that extra HP, proficiencies, APRs and all are really good.
The Berserker/Cleric though gets the best of both worlds. Tanking abilities, lots of proficiencies and the Berserk immunities, while you are almost a full Cleric.
Thanks for the feedback Oxford guy I have never had a 2 cleric party before Trying to pick a CHARNAME that makes it more of a RP experience Don't think Vicky would go for a 1/2 orc anyway in BG2: EE on the evil side there is Korgan- Fighter Edwin - Mage Vicky- Cleric New NPC female thief ( what race ? anyone know ?) romancable ? not sure if Dorn will make it to BG2:EE Still on my first play through with a 1/2 elf Druid that I will Export/import He is going to be for the Jaheira Romance in BG2:EE
It's kind of funny people find ways to justify saving Viconia as much as they find ways to justify killing Drizzt. Most people say well Drizzt is a drow and evil so we should kill him on sight. On the flip side Viconia must be saved because she is being chased by a flaming fist! She is a female drow. If you read the books female drow are generally more evil then the males and dominant in the society. I don't see any reason to not take the word of the flamming fist over a drow who worships and evil surface god. I can also point out shes of evil alignment regardless of what people judge her to be by talking to her over the course of the baldur's gate series.
This is only a problem with the same people taking both stances. And then you know that they are simply opportunists.
To me, my party has witnessed no crime that Viconia is accused of. And the Flaming fist is so intent on killing her outright that he doesn't bother to (or is incapable of) justifying his actions. Add to that the fact that the Flaming Fist are Mercenaries and not "The Police", I have no problem what so ever siding with the damsel in distress and letting her prove herself.
As for Drizzt, I have never attacked him. And I would never use the justification of "He's a drow". So what. Evidence exists that not all drow are evil. So who am I to judge unless I witness that individual doing something evil.
Comments
For my money, she is my favorite NPC, so I might be biased. But yeah. she is definitely worth it in my book. She has an awesome DEX and has that 50% MR. Plus she is a straight cleric so she levels faster than any other cleric except Branwen. And she is eminently more delectable than the aforementioned Bran-flakes. Plus, she punishes if you get it wrong, and sometimes when you get it right as well.
It's the principle that's important. She could have been a half-drow or following Eilistraee. She could be the female equivalent of Drizzt. (Though I prefer that she wasn't)
She commited no crimes that we're aware of and the only one being that she's a drow. Maybe she did do something, maybe she didn't. We know that she didn't.
If it was Drizzt in her place and that guard tried to kill him or some other atypical drow, would he have any right or authority to attack him/her?
At least Adjantis and Keldorn have reasons to attack her and it doesn't happen on sight "Drow! Evil! Attack!".
And I would say that yes, they were wrong and she says that she's grateful and she wouldn't make him/her regret it for taking her in the party and saving her.
Plus, Viconia CAN be redeemed. It can happen in BG2.
I say it depends on the Paladin but Paladins are supposed to be unquestionable paragons of goodness and justice. Not church enforcers only. There's a reason Paladins have to be Lawful Good only and not of only alignment like the Cleric.
I have no idea what the dialogue between Adjantis/Keldorn and Viconia are.
I would guess that it's the things she says, I have to test it out, some time.
Still, she's pushing their buttons I would guess.
In the second, Paladin's 'Detect Evil' is not supposed to be an alignment detector. I want to say that in the 2nd ED DMG it says words exactly to the effect. That a Paladin can sense significant evils such as being from the lower planes and stuff like dragons and undead, but that it isn't a blanket 'Know Alignment' or lie detector. Both of which are higher level magics.
Uses Detect Evil ability
Text:
"Viconia - Evil
Kuo-Tao Monitor - Evil
etc."
That is exactly how it works in BG2. She does argue with Charname about a lot of other things over the course of the series but I can't come up with a single example in BG1 or BG2 where she berates Charname for not killing someone. The most she does is say something like, "These people aren't worth your time. They will always be weak if they don't learn to stick up for themselves." What we don't have to speculate on, however, is that she was forced to leave drow society specifically because she wouldn't kill an innocent so it seems strange to think that she is going to berate you for saving a child from wolves because she is "evil" but she put herself at huge risk because she refused to kill an innocent child.
I would say she does very little complaining about "good" things done by the party (including herself) over BG1 and BG2 (as opposed to the complaining you get from other characters when they don't like things like the Paladins complaining about aligning yourself with thieves or vampires, etc.
For that reason, I would say that the guard was abusing his authority so was the one in the wrong. Plus, Viconia begged for help and didn't taunt him or attacked him.
As far as the Detect evil, I can't say much on that front. Must be dumbed down mechanics would be my guess. Either way, even if he "Knows" she is Evil, I am pretty sure that Paladins aren't in the business of outright killing people merely for washing their clothes while evil.
Drizzt won't. Even if he did, he's boy and therefore it'd be icky.
Viconia also refused to kill a child as it has been said and she follows Shar not Lolth. That's a death-sentence for those that defy Lolth.
She instead escaped to the surface for it.
The Flaming Fist soldier was racist and wanted to kill her for no reason other than the color of her skin. Viconia didn't do anything wrong as far as we're concerned and she can stop being evil in BG2 if you romance her.
Not sure if she becomes True Neutral or Neutral good.
Yeah, she's evil. But she can be redeemed.
and add Vicky as a prequel to the Romance in BG2
I'm thinking about maybe an Neutral or Chaotic Evil Priest if Talos
But might go 1/2 orc Blackgaurd like Dorn
Anyway I think Vicky is one of the more interesting characters in BG2
Nah, I don't think so. In my last playthrough in BG2, I had Jaheira and Aerie. Though, those are not two Clerics but two Priests.
@OzzyBotkins
How about making a Human Berserker/Cleric instead? You could also make him a Half-Orc Fighter/Cleric. Focusing on the melee and tanking aspect than spells number.
Cleric of Talos works too but that extra HP, proficiencies, APRs and all are really good.
The Berserker/Cleric though gets the best of both worlds. Tanking abilities, lots of proficiencies and the Berserk immunities, while you are almost a full Cleric.
A Priest of Talos dualled to Mage + Viconia is nice too. That's what I have in my current playtrought. What a crazy random happenstance!
Thanks for the feedback Oxford guy
I have never had a 2 cleric party before
Trying to pick a CHARNAME that makes it more of a RP experience
Don't think Vicky would go for a 1/2 orc anyway
in BG2: EE on the evil side there is
Korgan- Fighter
Edwin - Mage
Vicky- Cleric
New NPC female thief ( what race ? anyone know ?) romancable ?
not sure if Dorn will make it to BG2:EE
Still on my first play through with a 1/2 elf Druid
that I will Export/import
He is going to be for the Jaheira Romance in BG2:EE
To me, my party has witnessed no crime that Viconia is accused of. And the Flaming fist is so intent on killing her outright that he doesn't bother to (or is incapable of) justifying his actions. Add to that the fact that the Flaming Fist are Mercenaries and not "The Police", I have no problem what so ever siding with the damsel in distress and letting her prove herself.
As for Drizzt, I have never attacked him. And I would never use the justification of "He's a drow". So what. Evidence exists that not all drow are evil. So who am I to judge unless I witness that individual doing something evil.
Wasn't Baeloth added with the recent patch?
Isn't he an evil Drow Sorcerer or something?
If he is, then that's another mage for the evil team. I think it's obvious that he has to be included in BG2EE. And don't forget our evil Thief!
He will be the antagonist in the new thief's quest line. Whose name will be Magda.