Personally I never understood what issues people have with resting, but if that is a rule you play by that is entirely fine. I do believe that game-time constraints skew the balance a bit, though, as without a healer (read: cleric) you'll be resting for ludicrous amounts of time (near death experience? time to spend two weeks camping in the woods!).
That being said, even under your constraints I remain unconvinced that a Skald is such a good idea. I feel that in BG2 you have tools enough that you do not need to have a character basically doing nothing on their own. Particularly because unlike IWD (where I do like a Skald) the most difficult battles in BG2 are largely bypassing AC altogether because they involve lots of magic. The damage buff is deceptive, too. +120 party damage might sound like a lot, until you calculate the damage an actual fighter-type character would do with one of the many really good weapons you can in find BG2.
Of course I *still* have not gotten to test Nightmare Mode. I fully expect some of my established paradigms to change there, but I remain skeptical that I would go in an IWD-like direction with a tank and lots of buff-stacking. The fights in BG2 just have such different makeups and demands, with smaller groups, high-priority targets, and lots of spells flying around - none of which you tend to find regularly in IWD, where mobs are dangerous mostly because there's 20 of them.
Could you elaborate a bit on the Cleric/Ranger by the way? I've tried it a few times, and mostly just found it a worse version of a Berserker->Cleric. I just don't seem to be able to find a good use for druid spells, with the exception of Iron Skins and to an extent Nature's Beauty. Are these two spells alone really worth a loss of GM and Berserker Rage?
As for the Archer, I think it's important to note that the class mostly suffers from a RELATIVE loss of power as you progress, not an absolute one. It doesn't so much get worse as that it does not get better at the same rate that other classes do, after a certain point. Archers are early peakers, they become very strong very quickly, but they don't improve too much after that - their kit bonus progression stalls out, all of their best weapons are essentially acquired in early SoA, and their ammunition is often inadequate for the protections of enemies in ToB. Other classes tend to get a lot more out of the ridiculous things you acquire at endgame. Of course, I still absolutely love Archers and never run without one, and I also find early game kinda harder than endgame anyway
The rest of your party seems fine though, and well-suited to your play style and personal rule set.
@ Lord_Tansheron - I was hoping you'd reply to my post! Thank you for reading through it carefully. I'll attempt to answer your questions although I want to stress that this has just been my experience and I respect any disagreement even if I'm rather convinced otherwise.
re:resting - When I tried to figure out my method of max/min I ran in to many theoretical possibilities. Many possibilities involved alacrity time stopped burn the world comps that slept after every onslaught. I found this game play unrewarding. I thought about the RP element and realized that it was more fun to feel "under pressure" to complete tasks quickly. It was by this metric that I started to measure my success. If I can complete the game in 40 days vs 80 days I feel that it shows I've navigated all the challenges more efficiently. If certain comps output more damage, but take twice as long to finish - are they really better? This is of course a subjective area of discussion but it is a stance I feel really brings out the fun of the game. I'd recommend not getting to silly though, if I have to reload because I'm really trying to kill this dragon with 3 spells left and half life fighters - I'm not being efficient or reasonable.
re:skald - I will NEVER run a comp without a skald again. This class keeps getting better to me. After 3m experience the skald is an amazing tank, offers 5 castings of improved haste and buffs the party actively. We've been over the numbers on damage and attack although I will emphasize attack is often forgotten and you definitely lose a lot of damage per round even when you only miss on a 6-1 and the skald makes that a 2 or 1. The AC buff is the winner in all this. Especially with a tank centric position (necessary in nightmare i feel as battles last a long time). If for example you are normally getting hit on a 16-20, with the skald you now get hit only on a 20. You went from dropping an iron skin 25% of the time to 5% of the time. When you are swarmed with enemies that have 500+ hit points you need those skins being 5 times more efficient. Lastly the protections from improved bard song are crazy good. No stuns, no fear, etc. You just walk up to mind flayers and make their days very bad. Forget chaotic commands or special weapons to give you immunities - you just ignore confusion, psyonics and anything else. On top of this I run vecna on the skald and have her use instant breaches and remove magics (for pfmw). She is also my main wand user for the endless stream of fodder I need in nightmare. Lastly I'd say shes simply the lowest maintenance character - she'll take scraps and do amazing with them. A skald makes your other characters that much better at everything they do.
re:cleric/ranger - I've tried running true tanks without a "skin" option and it just doesn't work for me. Random number generation will blow up the best tanks from time to time as enemies magically get a bunch of 20s in a row. Even with the best AC you will get hit and you will die. Now I don't run iron skins in every battle. I'd run out of them too quickly even with wonderous recall. So I know it is possible to soak with easthaven and armor of faith and some good regen, but it slows things down. Also with a berserker cleric dual you lose your good HLAs. I won't toss those aside so easily. Even in nightmare it tends to make sense to burst casters down fast and 2-3 GWWs with FOA take down nearly anything in the game. Carsomyr on the FMT takes down protections and if by any chance that silly mage puts on pfmw the bard has a 0 cast time dispel that hits it the 10th of a second it completes.
re:archers - I agree with everything you said. Relative loss is correct, as I notice they tend to peak in my parties around 55% of kills and then decline to 40-45% by the end of TOB. The last chapter alone they are closer to 35%. Hard to beat Ravager in nightmare. 500hps gone in a swing, thx.
re:dual class - I used to play nothing but dual class but got tired of their awkwardness in getting their levels back. I hate missing out on GM damage and half attack but I'm willing to lose it for the advantages of a smooth power curve.
I have come to believe Archers are terribly underrated. @Tredvolt: Do you make much use of the Archer's Strength drain on Called Shot? That offers a quick kill on various enemies, although it does cost a limited resource, considering you're trying to minimize resting.
I actually haven't used the strength drain that way, but it is a great idea! Any enemies in particular you've had success on it with? I imagine maybe some tough mages. It is limited but I never use them enough as it is. Tell us where you've used it!
It all depends on the target, but you can drain anything down to zero STR. It just requires Improved Haste, high APR, extra castings of Called Shot, and/or a simulacrum.
Long story short, Called Shot lasts 12 seconds, and the STR drain lasts 10. This means you can stack the effects of Called Shot, but the maximum STR drain won't double in the process. So how much can you drain?
The maximum amount of STR you can drain is equal to 1.667 times your APR, times the number of Archers in your group. That's 16 for one Archer if you've got Improved Haste and the Tuigan Bow or some darts, or are using Whirlwind Attack. If you use Called Shot twice, your maximum STR drain is equal to 2.667 times your APR, times the number of Archers in your group. That's 26 for one Archer, assuming 10 APR. So you kind of have to know how much STR you need to drain.
As for what I've drained... I'm rather proud of having slain the SCS2 version of the Unseeing Eye with STR drain without having to use the Rift Device. I'm also pleased with killing the SCS2 Irenicus in Hell in the same run. A Balor in the Underdark also went down in a separate run, and that was a major deal for me as well.
I always try to use Vhailor's Helm with my Archer for the big fights. (if i remember to) I think I may try to simultaneously str drain through called shot on both of them. It would be amazing if that could actually be a solution for some bigger annoying enemies ESPECIALLY in nightmare mode. I am typically at 9 (with gesen and imp haste) or 10 (with tuigan and imp) so I'm capping on that potential. Thanks for the tip, I'll experiment with it next run!
I have a question about potion use. Has anyone found a very efficient way of acquiring and using potions? I tend to save them up too much and only really use them in TOB or in a rare emergency. I keep thinking I should try to stockpile str enhancing potions but it always seems like there are so few that it is hardly worth the trouble. Any ideas? How about the resistance ones?
Adratha and Mrs. Cragmoon in the Bridge District have lots of extra Oils of Speed and Potions of Stone Form, plus Potions of Invisibility and some others. As for Potions of Magic Protection and Potions of Magic Shielding, you can buy three apiece from Roger in the Temple Sewers and from one of the merchants at the entrance to Ust Natha. SCS2 also adds tons of potions to various enemies throughout the game.
Potions of Giant Strength should be available from many different merchants.
Actually yes skald's bonuses are kinda ridiculously overpowered. I mean the bard song buffs for the party. The relative diffirence in Thac0-ac skald gives is + 4 in favor of your party lol thats just ridic plus the immunities. Actually i would love to see the skald a bit nerfed nerfed(and buffed). A simple +2AC and could suffice at least if the bard could keep fighting during the song. The song should be passive.
Does NM mode increase XP gains as it does in IWD? If so, then a full-sized party should be a lot better than it is in BG2. The bigger the party, the more powerful a Bard becomes. I could imagine that in a 6-man NM party, a Skald could actually be very good. In smaller parties the benefit of party-wide buffs diminishes, making it less optimal.
I also can't speak to the value of tanks in NM, but in regular BG2 I found tanking to be highly overrated. Going full offense and bulldozing your way through seems to work much better (as long as you make sure to prioritize targets properly). As I said earlier, a lot of battles actually involve mechanics that bypass AC anyway, and with SCS the AI is usually smart enough to not allow for the somewhat dumb tanking from IWD where enemies will stick to whomever they see first FOREVER.
If you DO want a tank though, then I agree that R/C is a decent choice. Skins is a powerful tool, as are the cleric buffs like DuHM and RM. It's debatable however whether, say, a Berserker->Mage might not be better still (Grandmastery, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Haste, Lvl9 shenanigans...). I know I already tank things like dragons with my Kensai->Mage (using Skins + Spell Immunity: Abjuration against the SCS-scripted dispel spam) and a Berserker should just be straight better. But maybe that's just my long-standing dislike for druid spells. I just cannot find a use for 99% of their spells, I'm sorry :P
As for potions, I usually save them exclusively for TRULY difficult battles (very early-game Tor'Gal/Firkraag, and some end bosses like Hell Irenicus, Ravager, last battle). The only potions I regularly use are healing potions and invisibility potions.
The Archer STR drain tactic is something to keep in mind. I've used it occasionally, mostly in conjunction with Vhailor's Helm. There aren't any enemies that you REALLY need it against, but it's a nice option for some party compositions or if you're lacking certain tools at some point in the game (e.g. if your duals aren't up to snuff yet or whatever).
@FinneousPJ The length of battles in NM mode is a really big issue. Many short term buffs that are great in the normal game start to diminish in usefulness. The XP bonuses in nightmare are much higher than doubled. I think the beginning mephits give 1840 xp each vs 420. In my last nightmare run each of my 4 characters had about 10.5m experience at the end. I do not uncap xp for the record, its just that the character sheet sometimes keeps adding xp so my skald showed 10,500,000 but maxed at level 40 with 8,000,000.
Anyways as you can see you can definitely run a 5th or 6th character and still hit capped xp at the end of TOB. I'd rather not do this, especially since I already find the wait to 3m xp for HLAs painful. Improved bard song WRU. I also simply don't like the feel of 6 members. Undoubtedly it would be more powerful in nightmare.
@Lord_Tansheron I definitely agree with your tactics for the basic game. Especially with SCS, and more dangerous enemies - you simply need to go all offense and blow them up. Forget the shield, forget defensive mechanics - just get as many APR as possible blow a bunch of spell buffs and go at it. Even demon fights in watcher's keep level 3 end in a few rounds. I use spell immunity abjuration for every dragon fight, and switch my best tanking gear to the FMT. The CR switches to pure ranged mode with +5 sling and 25 STR - a few rounds of GWW puts him at nearly 400 damage a round without crits. Dragons are one of the few enemies i don't mess around with and spend a lot of spells on. 90% of the battles in the game I try to win with very few spells if any at all.
re:druid spells - IMO they all suck except ironskins. However, ironskins is SO good that it is worth sculpting a character around. IWD druids are so much better but arguably overpowered.
@Max_Damage - I completely agree. If this were the kind of game we could make balance changes to, then skald would be up there for nerfs. The nature of the buffs not having linear returns is what makes the skald insane. I have repeated to myself in a room with no other people "i will never run without a skald again" more times than a sane person should. When i first thought about using one, the bonuses seemed nice. When I actually used it my mind was blown...and is still being blown especially in Nightmare.
re:6 member party - For the sake of our powergaming argument if I were to run 6 members I'd likely keep my current 4 and run a couple pure damage dealers. I'm talking GM dual wielding extra AP weapons. I'd want some extra IMP hastes so Ken/mage Zerk/mage.
NM mode will definitely bring some changes, I hope I'll be able to try it at some point in the not-too-distant future...
As for druid spells, if everything except Skins sucks, why not run with mage instead? Also has Skins, but a ton of other useful things. R/C just for the C? Mhm, I don't know. Might need to play NM a bit myself to judge things better.
Simply put, your armor choices are poor comparatively for Mage subs. If your main tank is at best running super late game elven chains or vecna you are really losing out on your max AC options. I realize you can take off plate cast and then put it on but ain't nobody got time for that....
I feel the cleric spells are undervalued too.
LV1 - Armor of Faith LV2 - DUHM LV3 - Skeleton Warriors (especially good in NM) LV4 - Protection from Evil (defensive harmony honorable mention) LV5 - Righteous and Skins LV6 - Righteous and Skins (via wonderous) LV7 - Greater Restoration
These are all amazing and useful spells that you get so many of. I mean at every stage of the game these spells provide some significant value. I think where people lose some value for priest spells is that they get trapped in the endless buff cycle. Prayer/Aid/Bless + chaotic commands and death ward etc. These spells are more trouble than they are worth most of the time. The time it takes to cast runs your timers on your other spells and just makes for inefficiency.
The key with combat clerics is the amulet of power. That 1/10th a second faster cast time makes armor of faith, DUHM, defensive harmony and greater restoration instant. It goes a long ways toward recasting your skins too although that is always the hardest part of ranger/cleric.
I would NEVER run a 2nd cleric in a comp - there is just no point. I've seen several people suggest ideal groups that include two clerics and I have to disagree. One cleric in a melee position is amazing though. You have so much reactive power and modulation based on AC requirements.
re: Armor
I realize none of this is new information but it bears being repeated. A full on PLATE tank can get up to -25-26 AC with proper spell usage. 24 DEX from DUHM - Defensive harmony if you need. The plate armors have -4 and -3 buffs to slash and pierce. Match this with the crushing belt with +4 and you have a nearly untouchable tank. Obviously swap on fire gear as needed (none of the other resistances matter).
10 - Base AC -2 - Best Plates -6 - Crushing Belt Plus Plate bonuses (-4 slash -3 pierce) -12 - 24 Dex -16 - Bard Song -17 - Sewer Cloak -19 - Gax -20 - Earth Control -25 - 5 AC Shield -27 - Defensive Harmony -29 - Against Evil
Mix this with called shots on particularly high thaco enemies. The above setup is overkill for most of the game, but having a 5% skin drop rate ensures a really hearty tank. I tend to use the cloak of cheese on him to avoid most magic, and I always have a fire set ready to go. This guy simply doesn't die and he debuffs through slow the most dangerous enemies in the game. As your main character no deaths is very convenient.
Last thing I'll mention is that one of the best things about ranger/cleric is you get most of the gear in the very beginning of the game. Fortifcation shield, FOA, crushing belt, mencar's plate armor, earth control ring.... we are talking like first 10-15% of the game for 80% of the gear. Amulet of power and ROP +2 until you switch to magic plates. We even get that +3 sling at the start of the game now too which you'll use until erinne's in watchers.
I'll have to actually go and play NM to evaluate tanks, I fear. I am not convinced AC is the way to go with how enemy THAC0 develops throughout the game (ToB in particular), but if fights last a long time it may be worth considering. Then again, from IWD experience fully buffed damage dealers do mop up things fairly quickly even on HoF, and if anything BG2 will make reaching that point even faster.
As for Armor, considering the mage armor spells and things like Mirror Image/Blur, I don't think it's the big argument. Cleric buff spells are nice, of course; it's a tough call of whether they are worth it, especially if running with a Skald. And you do get GM as a dual, which is quite a chunk of damage.
But I guess testing is in order. Maybe I'll get lucky and get laid off so I can stop running 80-hour weeks and play some games :P
NM mode will definitely bring some changes, I hope I'll be able to try it at some point in the not-too-distant future...
As for druid spells, if everything except Skins sucks, why not run with mage instead? Also has Skins, but a ton of other useful things. R/C just for the C? Mhm, I don't know. Might need to play NM a bit myself to judge things better.
Barkskins are quite nice in spell revisions. Flat + 3 ac bonus (+4 at caster level 15). healing is quite powerful as well, critical wounds heal ~60 hp. Stoneskins are super good. Ranger gets you 2 ticks in 2handed fighting for free and racial enemy for exactly free.
As for 2 clerics in a party, i just love having the ability to remove confusion/charm/stun with two characters on demand. If something goes wrong at least 1 cleric is probably ok and can quickly help the other charcters. Break enchantment and remove paralysis help a lot.
other cleric spells to note: bless, sanctuary, DUHM, shield of faith(must have for a tanker character), silence(sometimes useful against the monsters with innate spell like abilities or clerics/druids), all sorts of heals and harms etc. Defensive harmony is a big advantage. + 4 ac for the party on demand. Demon summoning also. Can summon devas later on and use things like flaming aura and blade barriers(including its HLA equivalent). Implosion and storm of vengeance as well. Insect spells remove spellcasting from the opponents.
So for those that are still interested in this topic, I've been working on streamlining down to the most valuable quests and purchases. I've made an excel file with every purchase at max charisma(20+) and max repuation (20) along with the exact times I buy them.
I buy exactly 221,446g worth of items from Athkatla. This includes all ammunition (normal ammo, then acid arrows, +2 bullets) and also includes all major item purchases as well as a few scrolls and potions all of which are timed with when i need them. This list also includes wand recharges for my monster summoning.
Quest value is evaluated by experience given, time it takes to do the quest, and non-experience rewards. For example I wouldn't normally do the red man quest that ends in the bridge - however the boots of avoidance are nice and the time lost in killing those two people is extremely minimal and can be done while completing other things.
sleep limiting.........
I usually only sleep when forced to by the game (which is more often then you might think). My current play through has finished all of Althkatla watchers 1-2, firkraag, darnisse. I'm about to go sail away to spellhold and it is DAY 11 HOUR 4. Most of this is from traveling which is very difficult to limit.
Kangaxx was dead on day 3 - Firkraag on day 6.
I always keep everything paused to the point where I even make sure i make shopping purchases quickly. I NEVER use normal haste as fatigue is horrible.
Below is the second part of my excel which gives me my order of operations. I'm always tweaking these to squeeze time off or remove useless tasks.
Remember your character is becoming a god! Don't waste your time with the little things! Irenicus needs to die ASAP and the Bhaalspawn are wreaking havoc as you molest chickens and chase down goblins. Or perhaps you just really need that beauty sleep... don't kid yourself I saw that charisma score.
Well, it's finally happened. Thanks to an opportune opportunistic infection that will keep me barred from work for a few days while the SO is also out of town, I have actually gotten to put some time into the new Nightmare Mode from 1.3. Yay!
First of all, it's AMAZING. This is exactly what I have been waiting for. It also sadly shows what IWD:EE *could* be - if only it had an SCS equivalent. That, of course, is a requirement for any sort of serious play; I would suspect that even with Nightmare Mode, an unmodded game would be far too easy, just as IWD:EE is right now.
Speaking of mods, I've now shifted completely towards using @Demivrgvs fantastic revision mods. If you haven't checked them out, you really should!
All settings to 11 of course, for maximum difficulty. As always, characters are single player NPCs but Keeper'd to a custom setup. RP is secondary, though I do like putting in a few RP tweaks here and there (like giving Aerie 10 slashing resistance).
I toyed around with a few party setups, playing a bit into the game to test a few things out first before I moved to an actual playthrough. First on my list of things to test was party size. Given that XP should be SIGNIFICANTLY higher in NM, I thought that going the full 6 is probably optimal (considering enemies don't scale their HP, more characters = more damage). This has basically turned out as expected. 6 person parties are very easy to do in NM, and even with several duals you spend a very small amount of time in recovery mode. Next thing I wanted to try out was a bard. Given that IWD:EE is so Skald-friendly, I put one in a party to see how it went - and I was not happy at all. With SCS's enhanced AI and the fact that tanking in BG2 is generally harder than in IWD, I found it extremely difficult to keep the Skald in a good spot and out of harm's way. There was constantly something that required me to micro it around, as well as other characters, and that resulted in time out of range for the song, or a half-dead bard, or both. While the song's effect is no doubt powerful (especially in a full party) I think that without proper tanking and mob control as you find in IWD, a micro-intensive song bot is just not a good fit. Add to that the splash damage from spells raining down on you... yeah. Sorry, bards - you have been measured and found wanting.
The party I essentially settled on for my first NM playthrough is the following:
Inquisitor - 2h Swords + various
Oldie and goodie. I found that with fights running so long, controlling the mages is a MUST. You can no longer rely on just killing everyone before things get dangerous, so you'll have to actually dispel and stuff. No one dispels better than an Inquisitor (at x1.5 power this time; given the higher NM levels x2 even might not be OP)! Interestingly enough, I found myself using True Sight more than Dispel Magic so far, largely to preserve my own buffs and to counter all those invis-potion-chugging thieves that SCS likes to put all over the place. Weapon choice is fairly obvious, with Lilarcor/Joril's Dagger as early game options and Carsomyr as the end goal (still ridiculous with Item Revisions, though not quite as much).
Berserker 9 -> Cleric - Flails
A tank-ish character, though not a proper tank per se. It's just too hard to tank with SCS AI, plus there's too much damage you have a hard time mitigating (lots of magic, ridiculous THAC0s, etc.) effectively and/or efficiently. Still, so far I've found that NM does put a strain on your party's resilience, and so having someone who can take some hits is a very good choice. My usual all-out offense strategy did not seem to hold up too well during my preliminary tests, and so I'm sacrificing some damage for more buffs etc. If I ever do return to the whole Skald idea, I may scrap this slot for something else. Weapon choice again obvious, given how good Flail of Ages is even after some serious nerfs in the IR mod. Offhand will be shield if needed, or Defender of Easthaven if I ever find out where it's hiding
Swashbuckler 10 -> Fighter - Long Swords
My all-time favorite thief. At first I did not think I'd want one, but with every fight lasting ten times longer, I actually want some meat on my characters' bones; no more using Kensai for everything! Conveniently a Swash10 not only gets two kit bonus buffs, but also has just enough thieving skill to get Pick Lock, Find Trap, and Detect Illusions to 100 each - exactly what I need, especially the latter. Takes a while to regain the class, but as a fighter you're not nearly as fragile as, say, a mage dual. Weapon choice is Long Swords because there are a bunch of really good ones at all stages of the game - Flame Tongue and Varscona are available right away, for example, and The Equalizer and Angurvadal are both VERY good endgame weapons with the IR mod. Offhand is an APR weapon, though they are only +1/2 in IR.
Kensai 9 -> Mage - Bastard Swords
Wouldn't be me without at least one K->M! With the larger party, the occasional fragility is mitigated somewhat. Longer fights put more of a strain on the whole Stoneskin plan, but it still works fine a lot of the time. Offensive output is delicious as ever, and Kai can really help put some priority targets away quickly. Mages are, of course, still very much a requirement for high-difficulty BG2 - perhaps even more in NM, given that CC becomes more powerful the longer fights go. Enemies do seem quite a bit more resistant though, and relying on things that allow saves may not be too good a plan - still, Mages have a truckload of really, REALLY good spells in Spell Revisions, and there is no better Mage than the Kensai->Mage. Well, at least so far. It's very possible I might roll with a Berserker->Mage at some point, and sacrifice some damage for even more defense. So far it's not been problematic keeping one Kensai alive and well, but who knows. Weapon choice is interesting, as there's finally some really nice Bastard Swords around other than Foebane (which is still one of the best 1h weapons, if not the best given the FoA nerf). My favorite is the Lawgiver+2, which deals +2 extra damage to neutral and +4 to chaotic alignments - which is a LOT of enemies. +6 extra damage against many annoying things for a weapon you can buy fairly cheaply at the very start of the game? SIGN ME UP!
Archer - Long Bows
Another classic and long-time favorite of mine, that has not diminished at all in power in NM. Archers are still early/mid-game death machines, and an extremely reliable source of very good damage. I'm a bit worried that I might need to start saving special ammo more given that you spend so many more shots each fight, but other than that my Archer does exactly what I want it to do - kill things, and kill them well. The weapon choice is interesting though. IR has changed several ranged weapons around in many different ways, and added some real contenders for the old Short-Bow classics Tuigan and Gesen. While Gesen is still really good, Tuigan now has competition in the form of Taralash, which also has +APR as well as considerably higher damage. There's also the Strong Arm+2 available to buy at the start of the game, which comes with a whopping +10(!) damage on it - enough to make me want to go Long Bows for a change. Of course, I have the pips to also go Short Bows later on, which will probably be relevant for enemies requiring +4 or higher to hit, i.e. Gesen.
Fighter 9 -> Mage - Crossbows
This character is one I've always wanted to find a good place for. Previously, I just ran K->M for extra mages, and additional Archers for extra ranged power - but now I think the time may be right for a combination of both. It's a bit disappointing to dual without a kit, but of course none of the fighter kits actually support ranged weapons. I considered a multi, and to be honest I may try that out in the future - but for now, I don't think I want to trade slower spell progression for fighter HLAs. The main reason for that is that I'm unsure how well exactly Whirlwind goes with the Item Revisions mechanic of Crossbow reload time. IR Crossbows deal huge damage, but they add a forced 1-1.5s reload after each shot, effectively limiting actual APR - it'll be interesting to see how this ends up doing in terms of performance and damage output. Firetooth+5 is definitely something with huge potential in IR, even dealing area damage after the upgrade. Seems good, but needs testing. Might be the APR limitations will make me want to go something else instead. Maybe Slings? Got to try Slings some day...
The part is performing well so far. Battles tend to involve a lot damage on the party, though, and that takes some getting used to. Definitely no more steamrolling! You can't bulldoze in NM the way you can in regular, and actually have to be smart about minimizing incoming damage. Now, I still don't think that buffing yourself to all hell is the way to go for that - especially since every little Slaver mage likes to throw dispels around like it's going out of style. I think simply choosing a bit more defensive characters (read: less Kensais >_>) should be sufficient. That's also a reason I've gone with 2 ranged, and it's working very well so far.
That being said, there are definitely some gnarly spots. I had to give up in de'Arnise Keep for now, because the troll packs just STOMP me. 3 Spirit Trolls and 5 Trolls is too much to handle when it takes so long to kill them. Spirit Trolls especially are a major pain due to their permanent invisibility, which combined with their regeneration and NM HP pool means they take FOREVER to kill - all the while they're pelting you with Flame Strikes and Greater Commands. Perhaps it's just a level issue though. I'll come back once I'm well into my teens, though of course it bruises my ego somewhat to deviate from my usual route because it's too hard
Most of the rest is going well, though. The early game ambushes were no big problem, nor were most of the easier quests. I'm moving into mid-game now, though, and I expect things to get tough once actually dangerous mobs are involved (I'm thinking Beholders etc.).
That'll have to wait for tomorrow/the day after, though! Hopefully I can squeeze enough game time in before I'm ripped back into real life to give a more in-depth impression of the actual playthrough in NM, and not just the theoretical foreplay
@Lord_Tansheron: You might be disappointed about the Defender of Easthaven. I've got Item Revisions installed and it provides no damage resistance, according to the item file. It just gives you the original +1 to AC, and an extra 10 maximum HP. It also has a 20% chance per hit of adding 1 to your APR for one round, though, so it might have a non-tank related purpose.
@semiticgod I know what it does, but that's still basically the best off-hand available to a cleric (barring specific immunity/resistance stuff switched in as needed). Its effect is not much, but it's something. I went through the item files, and it really was the best thing I could find. Maybe I missed something? Do you have a suggestion?
The spirit trolls should be handled using silence: they get silenced and stop doing greater command. Either that or chaotic commands. Also, would ve been cool to have 2 clerics in such a party. break enchantment frees you from dom/charm/sleep/command/confuse etc. paralysis frees you from stun and hold.
However, break enchantment is also a wizard lvl 4 spell and you can learn it for your mages.
Also, with the mods you ve installed mages now cast the acid shield damaginc spell. Protection from acid is now a useful magic. Either that or breaching PfmW and carsomyr it/dispel it with a spell.
Also, make sure to follow this insturction during installation because currently spell shield is bugged and perhaps not working or not working as intended
Also a quick thing: the new desintegrate spell is extremely useful. It does damage and works even on the bosses: huge damage chunks on a failed save. Doesnt destroy loot either. It is finally the ray of death its supposed to be. Works even on the liches.
AS for buffing, you may want to have some spells ready to recast in combat.
@Lord_Tansheron: Very true. The DoE was really the best off-hand weapon for clerics in general, and there's not that much left in IR. The closest competitor would be Mauler's Arm if your cleric's STR is below 18 and you don't want to use Holy Power for some reason... but that's about it. The shield really would be the best option, I think, considering how much IR buffs them.
@Lord_Tansheron Defender of Easthaven no longer has physical resistance for balance reasons (aka avoid ridiculously high res values, not to mention 100%+ res with certain combinations). You will still find physical resistance bonuses on IR items, but only moderate values, and restricted to armors (all of them), helmets (Roranach's Horn), and shields (Fortress Shield). Flails are not supposed to be defensive oriented off-hand weapons within IR (and I don't encourage dual wielding clerics anyway), your cleric would benefit much more from using shields which are HUGELY more useful within IR.
Last but not least, you spell protection vs removals list above is almost perfect except for Non-detection. It works pretty much as SI:Div within SR and it is countered by spell removals such as Spell Thrust, Secret Word, etc. SCS mages will use it instead of SI:Div and counter it properly.
@Lord_Tansheron Defender of Easthaven no longer has physical resistance for balance reasons (aka avoid ridiculously high res values, not to mention 100%+ res with certain combinations). You will still find physical resistance bonuses on IR items, but only moderate values, and restricted to armors (all of them), helmets (Roranach's Horn), and shields (Fortress Shield). Flails are not supposed to be defensive oriented off-hand weapons within IR (and I don't encourage dual wielding clerics anyway), your cleric would benefit much more from using shields which are HUGELY more useful within IR.
Last but not least, you spell protection vs removals list above is almost perfect except for Non-detection. It works pretty much as SI:Div within SR and it is countered by spell removals such as Spell Thrust, Secret Word, etc. SCS mages will use it instead of SI:Div and counter it properly.
Yes yes i have the fix installed and working, just trying to help new people with the mod xD
Btw, Tansheron. Do you have NM or the tweaks' "creatures have max hp" fix? What does NM do?
@Max_Damage Both. Nightmare Mode gives everything ridiculously high HP, like hundreds of them. Not sure max-HP rolls actually does anything on top of that, but I enabled it just the same.
I'll try to get some more testing in later today but I really am kinda sick... a nice excuse to stay home and game, but also sort of not a good thing :P Luckily I have so many meds in my I need a DEA number just to sweat, so I think I'll manage a few hours.
Comments
That being said, even under your constraints I remain unconvinced that a Skald is such a good idea. I feel that in BG2 you have tools enough that you do not need to have a character basically doing nothing on their own. Particularly because unlike IWD (where I do like a Skald) the most difficult battles in BG2 are largely bypassing AC altogether because they involve lots of magic. The damage buff is deceptive, too. +120 party damage might sound like a lot, until you calculate the damage an actual fighter-type character would do with one of the many really good weapons you can in find BG2.
Of course I *still* have not gotten to test Nightmare Mode. I fully expect some of my established paradigms to change there, but I remain skeptical that I would go in an IWD-like direction with a tank and lots of buff-stacking. The fights in BG2 just have such different makeups and demands, with smaller groups, high-priority targets, and lots of spells flying around - none of which you tend to find regularly in IWD, where mobs are dangerous mostly because there's 20 of them.
Could you elaborate a bit on the Cleric/Ranger by the way? I've tried it a few times, and mostly just found it a worse version of a Berserker->Cleric. I just don't seem to be able to find a good use for druid spells, with the exception of Iron Skins and to an extent Nature's Beauty. Are these two spells alone really worth a loss of GM and Berserker Rage?
As for the Archer, I think it's important to note that the class mostly suffers from a RELATIVE loss of power as you progress, not an absolute one. It doesn't so much get worse as that it does not get better at the same rate that other classes do, after a certain point. Archers are early peakers, they become very strong very quickly, but they don't improve too much after that - their kit bonus progression stalls out, all of their best weapons are essentially acquired in early SoA, and their ammunition is often inadequate for the protections of enemies in ToB. Other classes tend to get a lot more out of the ridiculous things you acquire at endgame. Of course, I still absolutely love Archers and never run without one, and I also find early game kinda harder than endgame anyway
The rest of your party seems fine though, and well-suited to your play style and personal rule set.
re:resting - When I tried to figure out my method of max/min I ran in to many theoretical possibilities. Many possibilities involved alacrity time stopped burn the world comps that slept after every onslaught. I found this game play unrewarding. I thought about the RP element and realized that it was more fun to feel "under pressure" to complete tasks quickly. It was by this metric that I started to measure my success. If I can complete the game in 40 days vs 80 days I feel that it shows I've navigated all the challenges more efficiently. If certain comps output more damage, but take twice as long to finish - are they really better? This is of course a subjective area of discussion but it is a stance I feel really brings out the fun of the game. I'd recommend not getting to silly though, if I have to reload because I'm really trying to kill this dragon with 3 spells left and half life fighters - I'm not being efficient or reasonable.
re:skald - I will NEVER run a comp without a skald again. This class keeps getting better to me. After 3m experience the skald is an amazing tank, offers 5 castings of improved haste and buffs the party actively. We've been over the numbers on damage and attack although I will emphasize attack is often forgotten and you definitely lose a lot of damage per round even when you only miss on a 6-1 and the skald makes that a 2 or 1. The AC buff is the winner in all this. Especially with a tank centric position (necessary in nightmare i feel as battles last a long time). If for example you are normally getting hit on a 16-20, with the skald you now get hit only on a 20. You went from dropping an iron skin 25% of the time to 5% of the time. When you are swarmed with enemies that have 500+ hit points you need those skins being 5 times more efficient. Lastly the protections from improved bard song are crazy good. No stuns, no fear, etc. You just walk up to mind flayers and make their days very bad. Forget chaotic commands or special weapons to give you immunities - you just ignore confusion, psyonics and anything else. On top of this I run vecna on the skald and have her use instant breaches and remove magics (for pfmw). She is also my main wand user for the endless stream of fodder I need in nightmare. Lastly I'd say shes simply the lowest maintenance character - she'll take scraps and do amazing with them. A skald makes your other characters that much better at everything they do.
re:cleric/ranger - I've tried running true tanks without a "skin" option and it just doesn't work for me. Random number generation will blow up the best tanks from time to time as enemies magically get a bunch of 20s in a row. Even with the best AC you will get hit and you will die. Now I don't run iron skins in every battle. I'd run out of them too quickly even with wonderous recall. So I know it is possible to soak with easthaven and armor of faith and some good regen, but it slows things down. Also with a berserker cleric dual you lose your good HLAs. I won't toss those aside so easily. Even in nightmare it tends to make sense to burst casters down fast and 2-3 GWWs with FOA take down nearly anything in the game. Carsomyr on the FMT takes down protections and if by any chance that silly mage puts on pfmw the bard has a 0 cast time dispel that hits it the 10th of a second it completes.
re:archers - I agree with everything you said. Relative loss is correct, as I notice they tend to peak in my parties around 55% of kills and then decline to 40-45% by the end of TOB. The last chapter alone they are closer to 35%. Hard to beat Ravager in nightmare. 500hps gone in a swing, thx.
re:dual class - I used to play nothing but dual class but got tired of their awkwardness in getting their levels back. I hate missing out on GM damage and half attack but I'm willing to lose it for the advantages of a smooth power curve.
Long story short, Called Shot lasts 12 seconds, and the STR drain lasts 10. This means you can stack the effects of Called Shot, but the maximum STR drain won't double in the process. So how much can you drain?
The maximum amount of STR you can drain is equal to 1.667 times your APR, times the number of Archers in your group. That's 16 for one Archer if you've got Improved Haste and the Tuigan Bow or some darts, or are using Whirlwind Attack. If you use Called Shot twice, your maximum STR drain is equal to 2.667 times your APR, times the number of Archers in your group. That's 26 for one Archer, assuming 10 APR. So you kind of have to know how much STR you need to drain.
As for what I've drained... I'm rather proud of having slain the SCS2 version of the Unseeing Eye with STR drain without having to use the Rift Device. I'm also pleased with killing the SCS2 Irenicus in Hell in the same run. A Balor in the Underdark also went down in a separate run, and that was a major deal for me as well.
Potions of Giant Strength should be available from many different merchants.
relative diffirence in Thac0-ac skald gives is + 4 in favor of your party lol thats just ridic plus the immunities. Actually i would love to see the skald a bit nerfed nerfed(and buffed). A simple +2AC and could suffice at least if the bard could keep fighting during the song. The song should be passive.
I also can't speak to the value of tanks in NM, but in regular BG2 I found tanking to be highly overrated. Going full offense and bulldozing your way through seems to work much better (as long as you make sure to prioritize targets properly). As I said earlier, a lot of battles actually involve mechanics that bypass AC anyway, and with SCS the AI is usually smart enough to not allow for the somewhat dumb tanking from IWD where enemies will stick to whomever they see first FOREVER.
If you DO want a tank though, then I agree that R/C is a decent choice. Skins is a powerful tool, as are the cleric buffs like DuHM and RM. It's debatable however whether, say, a Berserker->Mage might not be better still (Grandmastery, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Haste, Lvl9 shenanigans...). I know I already tank things like dragons with my Kensai->Mage (using Skins + Spell Immunity: Abjuration against the SCS-scripted dispel spam) and a Berserker should just be straight better. But maybe that's just my long-standing dislike for druid spells. I just cannot find a use for 99% of their spells, I'm sorry :P
As for potions, I usually save them exclusively for TRULY difficult battles (very early-game Tor'Gal/Firkraag, and some end bosses like Hell Irenicus, Ravager, last battle). The only potions I regularly use are healing potions and invisibility potions.
The Archer STR drain tactic is something to keep in mind. I've used it occasionally, mostly in conjunction with Vhailor's Helm. There aren't any enemies that you REALLY need it against, but it's a nice option for some party compositions or if you're lacking certain tools at some point in the game (e.g. if your duals aren't up to snuff yet or whatever).
I'm not sure berserker rage is reliable in NM mode due to longer battles.
Anyways as you can see you can definitely run a 5th or 6th character and still hit capped xp at the end of TOB. I'd rather not do this, especially since I already find the wait to 3m xp for HLAs painful. Improved bard song WRU. I also simply don't like the feel of 6 members. Undoubtedly it would be more powerful in nightmare.
@Lord_Tansheron I definitely agree with your tactics for the basic game. Especially with SCS, and more dangerous enemies - you simply need to go all offense and blow them up. Forget the shield, forget defensive mechanics - just get as many APR as possible blow a bunch of spell buffs and go at it. Even demon fights in watcher's keep level 3 end in a few rounds. I use spell immunity abjuration for every dragon fight, and switch my best tanking gear to the FMT. The CR switches to pure ranged mode with +5 sling and 25 STR - a few rounds of GWW puts him at nearly 400 damage a round without crits. Dragons are one of the few enemies i don't mess around with and spend a lot of spells on. 90% of the battles in the game I try to win with very few spells if any at all.
re:druid spells - IMO they all suck except ironskins. However, ironskins is SO good that it is worth sculpting a character around. IWD druids are so much better but arguably overpowered.
@Max_Damage - I completely agree. If this were the kind of game we could make balance changes to, then skald would be up there for nerfs. The nature of the buffs not having linear returns is what makes the skald insane. I have repeated to myself in a room with no other people "i will never run without a skald again" more times than a sane person should. When i first thought about using one, the bonuses seemed nice. When I actually used it my mind was blown...and is still being blown especially in Nightmare.
re:6 member party - For the sake of our powergaming argument if I were to run 6 members I'd likely keep my current 4 and run a couple pure damage dealers. I'm talking GM dual wielding extra AP weapons. I'd want some extra IMP hastes so Ken/mage Zerk/mage.
As for druid spells, if everything except Skins sucks, why not run with mage instead? Also has Skins, but a ton of other useful things. R/C just for the C? Mhm, I don't know. Might need to play NM a bit myself to judge things better.
I feel the cleric spells are undervalued too.
LV1 - Armor of Faith
LV2 - DUHM
LV3 - Skeleton Warriors (especially good in NM)
LV4 - Protection from Evil (defensive harmony honorable mention)
LV5 - Righteous and Skins
LV6 - Righteous and Skins (via wonderous)
LV7 - Greater Restoration
These are all amazing and useful spells that you get so many of. I mean at every stage of the game these spells provide some significant value. I think where people lose some value for priest spells is that they get trapped in the endless buff cycle. Prayer/Aid/Bless + chaotic commands and death ward etc. These spells are more trouble than they are worth most of the time. The time it takes to cast runs your timers on your other spells and just makes for inefficiency.
The key with combat clerics is the amulet of power. That 1/10th a second faster cast time makes armor of faith, DUHM, defensive harmony and greater restoration instant. It goes a long ways toward recasting your skins too although that is always the hardest part of ranger/cleric.
I would NEVER run a 2nd cleric in a comp - there is just no point. I've seen several people suggest ideal groups that include two clerics and I have to disagree. One cleric in a melee position is amazing though. You have so much reactive power and modulation based on AC requirements.
re: Armor
I realize none of this is new information but it bears being repeated. A full on PLATE tank can get up to -25-26 AC with proper spell usage. 24 DEX from DUHM - Defensive harmony if you need. The plate armors have -4 and -3 buffs to slash and pierce. Match this with the crushing belt with +4 and you have a nearly untouchable tank. Obviously swap on fire gear as needed (none of the other resistances matter).
10 - Base AC
-2 - Best Plates
-6 - Crushing Belt Plus Plate bonuses (-4 slash -3 pierce)
-12 - 24 Dex
-16 - Bard Song
-17 - Sewer Cloak
-19 - Gax
-20 - Earth Control
-25 - 5 AC Shield
-27 - Defensive Harmony
-29 - Against Evil
Mix this with called shots on particularly high thaco enemies. The above setup is overkill for most of the game, but having a 5% skin drop rate ensures a really hearty tank. I tend to use the cloak of cheese on him to avoid most magic, and I always have a fire set ready to go. This guy simply doesn't die and he debuffs through slow the most dangerous enemies in the game. As your main character no deaths is very convenient.
Last thing I'll mention is that one of the best things about ranger/cleric is you get most of the gear in the very beginning of the game. Fortifcation shield, FOA, crushing belt, mencar's plate armor, earth control ring.... we are talking like first 10-15% of the game for 80% of the gear. Amulet of power and ROP +2 until you switch to magic plates. We even get that +3 sling at the start of the game now too which you'll use until erinne's in watchers.
As for Armor, considering the mage armor spells and things like Mirror Image/Blur, I don't think it's the big argument. Cleric buff spells are nice, of course; it's a tough call of whether they are worth it, especially if running with a Skald. And you do get GM as a dual, which is quite a chunk of damage.
But I guess testing is in order. Maybe I'll get lucky and get laid off so I can stop running 80-hour weeks and play some games :P
As for 2 clerics in a party, i just love having the ability to remove confusion/charm/stun with two characters on demand. If something goes wrong at least 1 cleric is probably ok and can quickly help the other charcters. Break enchantment and remove paralysis help a lot.
other cleric spells to note: bless, sanctuary, DUHM, shield of faith(must have for a tanker character), silence(sometimes useful against the monsters with innate spell like abilities or clerics/druids), all sorts of heals and harms etc. Defensive harmony is a big advantage. + 4 ac for the party on demand. Demon summoning also. Can summon devas later on and use things like flaming aura and blade barriers(including its HLA equivalent). Implosion and storm of vengeance as well. Insect spells remove spellcasting from the opponents.
So for those that are still interested in this topic, I've been working on streamlining down to the most valuable quests and purchases. I've made an excel file with every purchase at max charisma(20+) and max repuation (20) along with the exact times I buy them.
I buy exactly 221,446g worth of items from Athkatla. This includes all ammunition (normal ammo, then acid arrows, +2 bullets) and also includes all major item purchases as well as a few scrolls and potions all of which are timed with when i need them. This list also includes wand recharges for my monster summoning.
Quest value is evaluated by experience given, time it takes to do the quest, and non-experience rewards. For example I wouldn't normally do the red man quest that ends in the bridge - however the boots of avoidance are nice and the time lost in killing those two people is extremely minimal and can be done while completing other things.
sleep limiting.........
I usually only sleep when forced to by the game (which is more often then you might think). My current play through has finished all of Althkatla watchers 1-2, firkraag, darnisse. I'm about to go sail away to spellhold and it is DAY 11 HOUR 4. Most of this is from traveling which is very difficult to limit.
Kangaxx was dead on day 3 - Firkraag on day 6.
I always keep everything paused to the point where I even make sure i make shopping purchases quickly. I NEVER use normal haste as fatigue is horrible.
Below is the second part of my excel which gives me my order of operations. I'm always tweaking these to squeeze time off or remove useless tasks.
Steal - Circus - Mencar Prom
Reputation (700, 900, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500) Prom
Slavers - Purchases Slums
Tombs Graveyard
Gaelen - Items Slums
Daystar Gates
Prebek - Mook - Pirates - Minotaurs - Harpers Docks
Boots - Wand - Belt Temple
Sewers - Flail - Cloak - Lich Temple
Lich - Red - Tanner - Play - Traitors Bridge
Kangaxx Docks
Graveyard - Purchases Graveyard
D'arnisse Keep
Windspear Hills (firekraag)
Watcher's Keep 1-2
Cromwell - Harpers - Purchases Docks
Illithids - Mekrath - Eyeless Temple
Planar Prison Bridge
Remember your character is becoming a god! Don't waste your time with the little things! Irenicus needs to die ASAP and the Bhaalspawn are wreaking havoc as you molest chickens and chase down goblins. Or perhaps you just really need that beauty sleep... don't kid yourself I saw that charisma score.
First of all, it's AMAZING. This is exactly what I have been waiting for. It also sadly shows what IWD:EE *could* be - if only it had an SCS equivalent. That, of course, is a requirement for any sort of serious play; I would suspect that even with Nightmare Mode, an unmodded game would be far too easy, just as IWD:EE is right now.
Speaking of mods, I've now shifted completely towards using @Demivrgvs fantastic revision mods. If you haven't checked them out, you really should!
This is the list of mods I'm currently using:
BP Ascension
SCS
Item Revisions (latest beta)
Spell Revisions (latest beta)
BG2Tweaks
All settings to 11 of course, for maximum difficulty. As always, characters are single player NPCs but Keeper'd to a custom setup. RP is secondary, though I do like putting in a few RP tweaks here and there (like giving Aerie 10 slashing resistance).
I toyed around with a few party setups, playing a bit into the game to test a few things out first before I moved to an actual playthrough. First on my list of things to test was party size. Given that XP should be SIGNIFICANTLY higher in NM, I thought that going the full 6 is probably optimal (considering enemies don't scale their HP, more characters = more damage). This has basically turned out as expected. 6 person parties are very easy to do in NM, and even with several duals you spend a very small amount of time in recovery mode.
Next thing I wanted to try out was a bard. Given that IWD:EE is so Skald-friendly, I put one in a party to see how it went - and I was not happy at all. With SCS's enhanced AI and the fact that tanking in BG2 is generally harder than in IWD, I found it extremely difficult to keep the Skald in a good spot and out of harm's way. There was constantly something that required me to micro it around, as well as other characters, and that resulted in time out of range for the song, or a half-dead bard, or both. While the song's effect is no doubt powerful (especially in a full party) I think that without proper tanking and mob control as you find in IWD, a micro-intensive song bot is just not a good fit. Add to that the splash damage from spells raining down on you... yeah. Sorry, bards - you have been measured and found wanting.
The party I essentially settled on for my first NM playthrough is the following:
Inquisitor - 2h Swords + various
Oldie and goodie. I found that with fights running so long, controlling the mages is a MUST. You can no longer rely on just killing everyone before things get dangerous, so you'll have to actually dispel and stuff. No one dispels better than an Inquisitor (at x1.5 power this time; given the higher NM levels x2 even might not be OP)! Interestingly enough, I found myself using True Sight more than Dispel Magic so far, largely to preserve my own buffs and to counter all those invis-potion-chugging thieves that SCS likes to put all over the place. Weapon choice is fairly obvious, with Lilarcor/Joril's Dagger as early game options and Carsomyr as the end goal (still ridiculous with Item Revisions, though not quite as much).
Berserker 9 -> Cleric - Flails
A tank-ish character, though not a proper tank per se. It's just too hard to tank with SCS AI, plus there's too much damage you have a hard time mitigating (lots of magic, ridiculous THAC0s, etc.) effectively and/or efficiently. Still, so far I've found that NM does put a strain on your party's resilience, and so having someone who can take some hits is a very good choice. My usual all-out offense strategy did not seem to hold up too well during my preliminary tests, and so I'm sacrificing some damage for more buffs etc. If I ever do return to the whole Skald idea, I may scrap this slot for something else. Weapon choice again obvious, given how good Flail of Ages is even after some serious nerfs in the IR mod. Offhand will be shield if needed, or Defender of Easthaven if I ever find out where it's hiding
Swashbuckler 10 -> Fighter - Long Swords
My all-time favorite thief. At first I did not think I'd want one, but with every fight lasting ten times longer, I actually want some meat on my characters' bones; no more using Kensai for everything! Conveniently a Swash10 not only gets two kit bonus buffs, but also has just enough thieving skill to get Pick Lock, Find Trap, and Detect Illusions to 100 each - exactly what I need, especially the latter. Takes a while to regain the class, but as a fighter you're not nearly as fragile as, say, a mage dual. Weapon choice is Long Swords because there are a bunch of really good ones at all stages of the game - Flame Tongue and Varscona are available right away, for example, and The Equalizer and Angurvadal are both VERY good endgame weapons with the IR mod. Offhand is an APR weapon, though they are only +1/2 in IR.
Kensai 9 -> Mage - Bastard Swords
Wouldn't be me without at least one K->M! With the larger party, the occasional fragility is mitigated somewhat. Longer fights put more of a strain on the whole Stoneskin plan, but it still works fine a lot of the time. Offensive output is delicious as ever, and Kai can really help put some priority targets away quickly. Mages are, of course, still very much a requirement for high-difficulty BG2 - perhaps even more in NM, given that CC becomes more powerful the longer fights go. Enemies do seem quite a bit more resistant though, and relying on things that allow saves may not be too good a plan - still, Mages have a truckload of really, REALLY good spells in Spell Revisions, and there is no better Mage than the Kensai->Mage. Well, at least so far. It's very possible I might roll with a Berserker->Mage at some point, and sacrifice some damage for even more defense. So far it's not been problematic keeping one Kensai alive and well, but who knows.
Weapon choice is interesting, as there's finally some really nice Bastard Swords around other than Foebane (which is still one of the best 1h weapons, if not the best given the FoA nerf). My favorite is the Lawgiver+2, which deals +2 extra damage to neutral and +4 to chaotic alignments - which is a LOT of enemies. +6 extra damage against many annoying things for a weapon you can buy fairly cheaply at the very start of the game? SIGN ME UP!
Archer - Long Bows
Another classic and long-time favorite of mine, that has not diminished at all in power in NM. Archers are still early/mid-game death machines, and an extremely reliable source of very good damage. I'm a bit worried that I might need to start saving special ammo more given that you spend so many more shots each fight, but other than that my Archer does exactly what I want it to do - kill things, and kill them well.
The weapon choice is interesting though. IR has changed several ranged weapons around in many different ways, and added some real contenders for the old Short-Bow classics Tuigan and Gesen. While Gesen is still really good, Tuigan now has competition in the form of Taralash, which also has +APR as well as considerably higher damage. There's also the Strong Arm+2 available to buy at the start of the game, which comes with a whopping +10(!) damage on it - enough to make me want to go Long Bows for a change. Of course, I have the pips to also go Short Bows later on, which will probably be relevant for enemies requiring +4 or higher to hit, i.e. Gesen.
Fighter 9 -> Mage - Crossbows
This character is one I've always wanted to find a good place for. Previously, I just ran K->M for extra mages, and additional Archers for extra ranged power - but now I think the time may be right for a combination of both. It's a bit disappointing to dual without a kit, but of course none of the fighter kits actually support ranged weapons. I considered a multi, and to be honest I may try that out in the future - but for now, I don't think I want to trade slower spell progression for fighter HLAs.
The main reason for that is that I'm unsure how well exactly Whirlwind goes with the Item Revisions mechanic of Crossbow reload time. IR Crossbows deal huge damage, but they add a forced 1-1.5s reload after each shot, effectively limiting actual APR - it'll be interesting to see how this ends up doing in terms of performance and damage output. Firetooth+5 is definitely something with huge potential in IR, even dealing area damage after the upgrade. Seems good, but needs testing. Might be the APR limitations will make me want to go something else instead. Maybe Slings? Got to try Slings some day...
The part is performing well so far. Battles tend to involve a lot damage on the party, though, and that takes some getting used to. Definitely no more steamrolling! You can't bulldoze in NM the way you can in regular, and actually have to be smart about minimizing incoming damage. Now, I still don't think that buffing yourself to all hell is the way to go for that - especially since every little Slaver mage likes to throw dispels around like it's going out of style. I think simply choosing a bit more defensive characters (read: less Kensais >_>) should be sufficient. That's also a reason I've gone with 2 ranged, and it's working very well so far.
That being said, there are definitely some gnarly spots. I had to give up in de'Arnise Keep for now, because the troll packs just STOMP me. 3 Spirit Trolls and 5 Trolls is too much to handle when it takes so long to kill them. Spirit Trolls especially are a major pain due to their permanent invisibility, which combined with their regeneration and NM HP pool means they take FOREVER to kill - all the while they're pelting you with Flame Strikes and Greater Commands. Perhaps it's just a level issue though. I'll come back once I'm well into my teens, though of course it bruises my ego somewhat to deviate from my usual route because it's too hard
Most of the rest is going well, though. The early game ambushes were no big problem, nor were most of the easier quests. I'm moving into mid-game now, though, and I expect things to get tough once actually dangerous mobs are involved (I'm thinking Beholders etc.).
That'll have to wait for tomorrow/the day after, though! Hopefully I can squeeze enough game time in before I'm ripped back into real life to give a more in-depth impression of the actual playthrough in NM, and not just the theoretical foreplay
However, break enchantment is also a wizard lvl 4 spell and you can learn it for your mages.
Also, with the mods you ve installed mages now cast the acid shield damaginc spell. Protection from acid is now a useful magic. Either that or breaching PfmW and carsomyr it/dispel it with a spell.
stoneskin/pfmw - breach
improved invis - true seeing.
spell shield can be taken out by any spell removal even lvl 3 spell thrust.
spell trap can be only taken out by lvl 7 ruby ray, lvl 8 pierce and lvl 9 spellstrike
acid sheath protection - dispel magic/remove magic/ carsomyr/ protection from acid.
non detection - breach
dispelling screen - any magic protection striking spells like secret word, spel lthrust, pierce magic etc.
Watch out for mages casting 9th level spells, pit fiends are extremely powerful.
I also have got that 'spell deflection gives protection from AOE spells' fix, liking it.
http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26517&page=36#entry233783
This may be not very important though
Also a quick thing: the new desintegrate spell is extremely useful. It does damage and works even on the bosses: huge damage chunks on a failed save. Doesnt destroy loot either. It is finally the ray of death its supposed to be. Works even on the liches.
AS for buffing, you may want to have some spells ready to recast in combat.
@Max_Damage Spell Shield is only slightly less bugged than it was in vanilla right now, but that's about to change. You can find a fix for it here: http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26517&p=234564 or wait for the new build I'm about to upload within 12 hours.
Last but not least, you spell protection vs removals list above is almost perfect except for Non-detection. It works pretty much as SI:Div within SR and it is countered by spell removals such as Spell Thrust, Secret Word, etc. SCS mages will use it instead of SI:Div and counter it properly.
Btw, Tansheron. Do you have NM or the tweaks' "creatures have max hp" fix? What does NM do?
I'll try to get some more testing in later today but I really am kinda sick... a nice excuse to stay home and game, but also sort of not a good thing :P Luckily I have so many meds in my I need a DEA number just to sweat, so I think I'll manage a few hours.