The only thing I could see even the admins will agreeing on deleting is your account. No Offense about that either. I didnt do anything wrong. Youw ere the one who jugded a book by its cover. Everyone else is fine in this situation and 100% safe. You need to just chill for a while and reread all the posts to understand what you dont seem to. No offense again to you.
On the contrary, as a forum moderator I have to say @LadyRhian has maintained a lot more patience and tolerance in trying to discuss this matter with you than you've shown with her- and certainly than I or most people would have. I'd say to LadyRhian, you add a lot of lore to the forum as well as good manners. And to Xezmeraude, if someone disagrees with you, resorting to insults, all-caps, threats, and exclamation points does not make your case, and it certainly isn't going to warrant LadyRhian closing her account..
My suggestion- when folks decide insults, "yelling," and threats are their method of discourse, they're not worth including in the conversation and can be ignored with impunity... ;-)
@Bhryaen Thank you for clearing that up. Now, on to more about Drow. I am only glad that nobody wanted a Bhaalspawn who could also wield Spellfire... and dang, now I just jinxed it.
This story of the escaped drow from the underdark turning to the light side of the force, is absolutely ridiculous. And so much bias towards one race disgusts me. Oh hey look I want to be a Drow, with spell resistance, black skin and silver/white hair and so on. And all content revised around it, mirroring player's choice to be a dark elf. If you really want to be a Drow either mod it yourself, or pick generic elf turn your colours to black/white/gray and roleplay, instead of demanding developer's ressources directed towards a single race.
@Geselle, I think there is a disparity here. Drizzt fanboys would just be happy with Drow as a playable race; those arguing against it are reasoning that it would require a disproportionate amount of work for the race to be shoehorned in, in a semi logical way. I would guess that to meet "supply and demand," we will see the former rather than the latter.
@geselle I really agree. The point is that they are supposed to be rare, and most male Drow go for being a mage if they really want to get out from under the Thumb of the Matron Mothers- and that really only happens if you get to be Archmage. Most Drow see nothing wrong with their society. Turning every Drow into a Drizzt clone cheapens Drizzt and tells me, when I DM, that you have no creativity. I'd rather be playing Lorianne Areen, a 6'5 (in her stocking feet) female human with her Longsword and Composite Bow, than just a cheap Drizzt clone. And its worse, because they want all the power and glory of Drizzt, with none of the consequences or persecution he faced. Hey, make your own character that doesn't rip off someone else's creation just because you think he's "kewl".
No, we do not expect everyone to follow by the game alone, only you seem to do that. Most people would be happy to learn a thing or two about the world that the game is set, but instead you resulted in accusations and insults (amongst other things including the suggestion Lady Rhian would be banned). It has gone on long enough so please drop it, so that the interesting coversations which I have taken part in within this thread may carry on unhindered.
I have expalined the game follows some parts of the books. We all know that from the Abdel Adrian standpoint. But the rest of the books series doesnt fit into the plot of Baldurs Gate because its already explained and is played by us. The characters we created.
Theres just no way even from we when I read pretty much all of the books to see anyone else needed for the game/ The game has its story told on one man. Thats it. Hence what this whole tpoic is about. Some races and some parts of the books just dont fit into the frame to expalin Abdels Pilrgimage. I wasnt making insults or recieving insults. The guys of overhaul has said. There wont be anymore new content added from what is already in the game.
LadyRhian needs to leave it at that and get off the topic of discussion. You cant add anymore to the game. The story is written once a book/Game is published its done. You can make other books to fix holes in the stories. Theyre called sub volumes. For a game we mod and add content to give more chars or fix plots that had holes. Hence UB mod. Or mods like Alternatives because the game was missing a good path point of view for say a paladin why would a paladin side with the thieves or even bodhis vampires? Doesnt make sense to the stroy of a paladin Abdel. Thats the point of the mods. They dont add to the story to alter it. The only mod legal to do that was David Gaiders Asensicon nmod because it was intended he wanted to change it to make it better. But due to biowares strict contract on him. He wasnt allowed to because they said NO!
Im not trying to say the books are wrong. I know whats in the books. but from what is evidently placed in the game. It doesnt exactly play as the story tells it in the books as in the game you have free will where in the book its a straight path telling. Im not trying to get at LadyRhian. I tried to expalin to her over and over why it wont work. She got opinionated about it. I cant help that. But you people dont need to keep it going. She understands now why it cant work and what the topic of discussion is really about. We dont need you guys causing another thread of good topic to get locked that got way out of whack because of LadyRhians misunderstanding of how I explained it 100% senseably and why she had to keep on going about it when I couldnt make it any clearer for her to understand why the game and the books cant follow the same path because it be plagurizing the authors work and that is ILLEGAL!!! Bioware at the time didnt have full endorsement to follow exactly like the books. Hence why there is no mention of Gorion though the books say the game doesnt label Gorion as a Monk before he became a mage. So in teh games Cannon lore. Gorion always lived in Candlekeep and never left the place nor had an adventure before then. Anything that happened before BG1 and anything after ToB that are in the books arent exatly what has to have happened in the game. The story is about Abdel and we have to work around that. We ant use whats in the series or add on to make the game more complex. Whats done is done. Lets just adreess the issues the games missing rather than adding more to the already masterpiee story it already told. UB mod alreay fixed the holes the story was missing. Alternatives gave us a good path to follow to get to spellhold. Asension makes the ending of ToB more climaxing. Theres just only so muh that can go into the game. We cant have too much to discuss about adding into the gaem. We dont want to turn it away from one mans pilgramage of his bhaalspawn heritage. We have to keep it within the boundaries. We cant add anymore. The series are told. ToB is the end. Theres no more to continue with hence the final chapter.
What LadyRhian shouldve done was open this to a whole new iscussion in the BG3 topic someone has posted. I can see another part of the books series be told. But there is just no way possible to fit it in the game we have already. What this topic is about is with in BG and BG2. Were not talking about a new game. That she shouldve knew before she even made the post about the extra drows she mentioned yes in the BOOKS!!! were also exiles. BUT IN THE GAME!!!! There are only two exiles. So what she was talking about wasnt even related to the topi at all. My post explained why drow couldnt be a race because i explained it already. read above on it. Some things are not meant to be fit into the protagonists view of the story. Theyre a lore and a story telling race more or less. So anything new or a new story to tell will have to be discussed in the BG3 forum which seems alot want to revive again. I liek to see more of Forgotten realms told. believe me But already Baldur's Gates story is told. There is nothing more storywise you could possibly fit into it as pretty much all the holes have been modded up. I dont mean to get at her. But we have to face it. The game has enough content to it already on top of what Overhaul is adding. The monk and Wild Mage and The Half-Orc NPCs fix the missing elements that were left out in NPCs. The arena addon they have is just a side optional test of your abilities and a way to strategize and undersatnd different diffiult battles and get you familiar to the strengths and weaknesses of everyone. The game is only going to get patched for bugs. Nothing else. Whats added is added. There is nothing more to add. Save it for BG3 or a whole new game altogether
When Lady Rhian talks about books, it does not automatically mean the BG series of books. There have been countless books set in the forgotten realms, (oh which I am sure Lady Rhian was commenting on), as well as the obvious manuals that were created for the PnP in the first place filled with information and lore. You did not explain why they COULDN'T be a race, you tried to explain why you think they SHOULDN'T be a race, very different things.
Lady Rhian then explained about the other Drow which are well known for leaving the underdark in a reply to you saying there are only 2 drow who left the underdark (extremely vague) and you accused her of flaming, when she merely imitated you in her way of putting her point across
The guys from overhaul said they can't change existing content, but have said the option for adding more content is always there and it is even possile to add content to existing characters, just not change them.
Your idea of "there is nothing left to add" is not only defeatist, but incorrect. DLC has been mentioned as a possibility, and if what's done is done was everyones attitude, we would lose out on some fantastic ideas people have come up with. The forum is here to express those feature requests, not to save them for another game. People look at these forums, modders, fantastic modders who my talk to the posters and work out ideas for mods and additions that can be achieved and used and enjoyed by the community.
As I said before, please leave it, and let the posters return with something valuable and insightful. Thank you.
@Xezmeraude, dude, you had gone for an X-men analogy to justify your point and yet deny any lore of D&D.
You said people is harassing you but words like stupid, children and others can be found over all your post as an classification for @LadyRhian (and me eventually).
You try to deny an fact with flames, and make huge turns to take the focus from what matter. It's funny cos you, me and many others here have the same opinion, no drow as main char. But to justify your opinion you used, an fallacy, and the phrase you used is against all senses of logic.
"they're not on the game so they existence doesn't matter".
then with due reverence let me down your house of cards, Wizard of the Coast DOES NOT allow D&D games that disrupt the P&P lore, exceptions are made but need to be negotiated.
It's funny @Xezmeraude as your objective and mine here are avoid a main char drow, however we do not share the means of implementing it. Defend a minority position is a hard thing to do, you must be competent and know how to argue, so a piece of advice to you:
Stick with the majority, it's less shamefull that way !
Ps: to hold a point in an argument there's always a limit, when you say that "earth is square/it's not on the game so does not exist" you cross that line, even more amusing what you say cos fallacy by itself is literally what you're doing, we deny a truth based on a limited example, just as "if don't snow on africa, therefore snow don't exist" or "if no whales exist on this pool, therefore no whales exist".
You must excuse-me cos in fact i don't have to refute your argues, you're destroing them by yourself as most of them are contradictory, but i just can't avoid to do so, it's too funy to avoid, sorry !
Ps: dude respect the paragraphs, read what you write is getting extremely boring, at least try to make reading more fluid since the content is too much weak.
We make tonnes of assumptions about things because we know about the Forgotten Realms lore that does not appear in the games because we know the lore is coherent. We assume that Halflings are cheery rather than canibalistic, we know that elves are respected and Drow hated, we believe that Kara-Tur actually exists and wasn't just in the imagination of Yoshimo, we know where amn is and how it relates politically to other nations. The point is that unless it is stated otherwise we assume that the world constructed within the Baldur's Gate game is the same world as the standard Forgotten Realms setting. The burden of proof is on you to show that the Faerun of the game differs from the traditional one and you haven't provided any evidence at all.
"We assume that Halflings are cheery rather than canibalistic" Be careful on this one @communard, don't forget the little halflings from the planar sphere in BG2 XD!
"We assume that Halflings are cheery rather than canibalistic" Be careful on this one @communard, don't forget the little halflings from the planar sphere in BG2 XD!
Haha, that was the reference which was itself a referece to Dark Sun
LadyRhian misjudged what the posts were about and in no way or form were books or the PnP being used to discuss people that are alreay in the game. If they are not in the game. dont bring them into it. Simple as that.
Elminster is presumably an unemployed crazy hobo who follows you around since nothing that we don't literally see or have explained in game is real...
If they were going to add a Drow subrace, special conversations and encounters would have to be added, some quests would have to become unavailable, and they would have to add more races than just the Drow to make it even worth their time.
I never said anyone was harassing me at all. Ill clarify that right now!!!
The only one needing clarify and is feeling harassed is you? BUt no one is harassing on here but you. LadyRhian misjudged what the posts were about and in no way or form were books or the PnP being used to discuss people that are alreay in the game. If they are not in the game. dont bring them into it. Simple as that.
And you didn't say you were being harrassed? One of your first posts to my reply that there were more than two Drow that ever left the Underdark is that you were reporting me for "flaming and harassment". If you didn't feel harassed, why would you even *say* that? I see you changed your words since then (now it says "edited" in the post).
So apparently, you feel your point was so weak that you had to go back and change your words to make it look like you didn't say what you actually said in your posts. Sorry, I think we can say that you lost this argument Or debate, or debation, or whatever you want to call it. Here's a hint: calling people morons and implying that they are stupid just make you look like you can't win your points any other way. In debate, that would be called "Ad hominem attacks" and get you kicked out of the debate and make you lose.
One of my favorite CHARNAMEs was a drow- Andrizztyl (so named because I'd created a Drizzt soundset from his BG1 and BG2 voiced lines and didn't want the "Does the mere mention of 'Drizzt' attract your ilk?" to sound too funny... hehe)
@LadyRhian His distracting ilk has been removed... ;-)
I am going to re-state my feelings on the matter. Open up the ability to add more races/sub races to the game by softcoding/externalising/whatever so modders can create sub races people want and the people who don't want them, do not have to worry.
Hey @Tanthalas, did you errase the last posts of the xez guy? damn spoiled my fun TT , and we're getting along so well... XD. Serious now let's get back to the on topic matter:
I believe that by being unlinked to the main story, the "black pits" DLC would recept drows pretty well into it, Most DLCs made in the future that don't link themself with the bhaalspawn saga could fit well with drows, tiefling, aasimar, half-ogre... etc...
By the way i have the strong feeling that in BG2 Solafein gonna be another joinable NPC, even in the vannila mod they give so much spoilers of this possibility.
@Bhryaen That's a relief! We don't need that kind of discourse on these forums.
@kamulzin- I'd love to see that. And he's actually a good drow, being a worshipper of Eilistraee and all. Though I'd rather not see Solaufein clones along with Drizzt clones. It seems like any author with a good idea gets 10 million imitators. I have to admit, I did a Drow as well, but my Drow was female, and while she wasn't a clone of Drizzt, she did wield A scimitar. She was also a fighter rather than a ranger. And no animal companions, either. I did choose a background for her from one of the Drow House Insignia from the FOR2 Drow of the Underdark houses, but I don't remember which one off the top of my head, and I'm at work and not near my books. But... Urth Dreier, maybe? Something like that.
@LadyRhian i hope they give us some background for solafein behavior. I like weimer mods, and i really loved the valen mod, but solafein mod make me feel like with a drow version of xan (from BG1), if made an joinable NPC, make him a little more agressive team BG. In a place that confront his own behavior, to impose himself he must impose his presence.
To end, being a good drow inside an evil society... he must have a lot of conflicts and regrets of his life in Ush Natha that would make an awersome background.
@Kamuizin Got it. She was of House Aluviir and her city was Llurth Dreier. And I know there was some background given in the game, but I haven't been able to play it in a very long time, and I don't remember what he said. all I remember was that he and Phaere had been lovers, he was an outcast, and Phaere wanted him killed, but didn't want to do it herself. And that he was good and worshipped Eilistraee, of course. NG, maybe?
My thoughts are, if we can gt a drow added (or give use the opporunity to do so), think of all the other races we can get put in. I am still hoping for deep gnomes and Genasi and they could be mod's so purests and people who don't want to play them don't have to, and everyone is happy and we can all get along
Comments
My suggestion- when folks decide insults, "yelling," and threats are their method of discourse, they're not worth including in the conversation and can be ignored with impunity... ;-)
Theres just no way even from we when I read pretty much all of the books to see anyone else needed for the game/ The game has its story told on one man. Thats it. Hence what this whole tpoic is about. Some races and some parts of the books just dont fit into the frame to expalin Abdels Pilrgimage. I wasnt making insults or recieving insults. The guys of overhaul has said. There wont be anymore new content added from what is already in the game.
LadyRhian needs to leave it at that and get off the topic of discussion. You cant add anymore to the game. The story is written once a book/Game is published its done. You can make other books to fix holes in the stories. Theyre called sub volumes. For a game we mod and add content to give more chars or fix plots that had holes. Hence UB mod. Or mods like Alternatives because the game was missing a good path point of view for say a paladin why would a paladin side with the thieves or even bodhis vampires? Doesnt make sense to the stroy of a paladin Abdel. Thats the point of the mods. They dont add to the story to alter it. The only mod legal to do that was David Gaiders Asensicon nmod because it was intended he wanted to change it to make it better. But due to biowares strict contract on him. He wasnt allowed to because they said NO!
Im not trying to say the books are wrong. I know whats in the books. but from what is evidently placed in the game. It doesnt exactly play as the story tells it in the books as in the game you have free will where in the book its a straight path telling. Im not trying to get at LadyRhian. I tried to expalin to her over and over why it wont work. She got opinionated about it. I cant help that. But you people dont need to keep it going. She understands now why it cant work and what the topic of discussion is really about. We dont need you guys causing another thread of good topic to get locked that got way out of whack because of LadyRhians misunderstanding of how I explained it 100% senseably and why she had to keep on going about it when I couldnt make it any clearer for her to understand why the game and the books cant follow the same path because it be plagurizing the authors work and that is ILLEGAL!!! Bioware at the time didnt have full endorsement to follow exactly like the books. Hence why there is no mention of Gorion though the books say the game doesnt label Gorion as a Monk before he became a mage. So in teh games Cannon lore. Gorion always lived in Candlekeep and never left the place nor had an adventure before then. Anything that happened before BG1 and anything after ToB that are in the books arent exatly what has to have happened in the game. The story is about Abdel and we have to work around that. We ant use whats in the series or add on to make the game more complex. Whats done is done. Lets just adreess the issues the games missing rather than adding more to the already masterpiee story it already told. UB mod alreay fixed the holes the story was missing. Alternatives gave us a good path to follow to get to spellhold. Asension makes the ending of ToB more climaxing. Theres just only so muh that can go into the game. We cant have too much to discuss about adding into the gaem. We dont want to turn it away from one mans pilgramage of his bhaalspawn heritage. We have to keep it within the boundaries. We cant add anymore. The series are told. ToB is the end. Theres no more to continue with hence the final chapter.
What LadyRhian shouldve done was open this to a whole new iscussion in the BG3 topic someone has posted. I can see another part of the books series be told. But there is just no way possible to fit it in the game we have already. What this topic is about is with in BG and BG2. Were not talking about a new game. That she shouldve knew before she even made the post about the extra drows she mentioned yes in the BOOKS!!! were also exiles. BUT IN THE GAME!!!! There are only two exiles. So what she was talking about wasnt even related to the topi at all. My post explained why drow couldnt be a race because i explained it already. read above on it. Some things are not meant to be fit into the protagonists view of the story. Theyre a lore and a story telling race more or less. So anything new or a new story to tell will have to be discussed in the BG3 forum which seems alot want to revive again. I liek to see more of Forgotten realms told. believe me
Lady Rhian then explained about the other Drow which are well known for leaving the underdark in a reply to you saying there are only 2 drow who left the underdark (extremely vague) and you accused her of flaming, when she merely imitated you in her way of putting her point across
The guys from overhaul said they can't change existing content, but have said the option for adding more content is always there and it is even possile to add content to existing characters, just not change them.
Your idea of "there is nothing left to add" is not only defeatist, but incorrect. DLC has been mentioned as a possibility, and if what's done is done was everyones attitude, we would lose out on some fantastic ideas people have come up with. The forum is here to express those feature requests, not to save them for another game. People look at these forums, modders, fantastic modders who my talk to the posters and work out ideas for mods and additions that can be achieved and used and enjoyed by the community.
As I said before, please leave it, and let the posters return with something valuable and insightful. Thank you.
You said people is harassing you but words like stupid, children and others can be found over all your post as an classification for @LadyRhian (and me eventually).
You try to deny an fact with flames, and make huge turns to take the focus from what matter. It's funny cos you, me and many others here have the same opinion, no drow as main char. But to justify your opinion you used, an fallacy, and the phrase you used is against all senses of logic.
"they're not on the game so they existence doesn't matter".
then with due reverence let me down your house of cards, Wizard of the Coast DOES NOT allow D&D games that disrupt the P&P lore, exceptions are made but need to be negotiated.
It's funny @Xezmeraude as your objective and mine here are avoid a main char drow, however we do not share the means of implementing it. Defend a minority position is a hard thing to do, you must be competent and know how to argue, so a piece of advice to you:
Stick with the majority, it's less shamefull that way
Ps: to hold a point in an argument there's always a limit, when you say that "earth is square/it's not on the game so does not exist" you cross that line, even more amusing what you say cos fallacy by itself is literally what you're doing, we deny a truth based on a limited example, just as "if don't snow on africa, therefore snow don't exist" or "if no whales exist on this pool, therefore no whales exist".
You must excuse-me cos in fact i don't have to refute your argues, you're destroing them by yourself as most of them are contradictory, but i just can't avoid to do so, it's too funy to avoid, sorry
Ps: dude respect the paragraphs, read what you write is getting extremely boring, at least try to make reading more fluid since the content is too much weak.
Buddy, please stop write to this topic.
Yours opinions are long, distorted and incorrect.
So apparently, you feel your point was so weak that you had to go back and change your words to make it look like you didn't say what you actually said in your posts. Sorry, I think we can say that you lost this argument Or debate, or debation, or whatever you want to call it. Here's a hint: calling people morons and implying that they are stupid just make you look like you can't win your points any other way. In debate, that would be called "Ad hominem attacks" and get you kicked out of the debate and make you lose.
@LadyRhian
His distracting ilk has been removed... ;-)
I believe that by being unlinked to the main story, the "black pits" DLC would recept drows pretty well into it, Most DLCs made in the future that don't link themself with the bhaalspawn saga could fit well with drows, tiefling, aasimar, half-ogre... etc...
By the way i have the strong feeling that in BG2 Solafein gonna be another joinable NPC, even in the vannila mod they give so much spoilers of this possibility.
@kamulzin- I'd love to see that. And he's actually a good drow, being a worshipper of Eilistraee and all. Though I'd rather not see Solaufein clones along with Drizzt clones. It seems like any author with a good idea gets 10 million imitators. I have to admit, I did a Drow as well, but my Drow was female, and while she wasn't a clone of Drizzt, she did wield A scimitar. She was also a fighter rather than a ranger. And no animal companions, either. I did choose a background for her from one of the Drow House Insignia from the FOR2 Drow of the Underdark houses, but I don't remember which one off the top of my head, and I'm at work and not near my books. But... Urth Dreier, maybe? Something like that.
To end, being a good drow inside an evil society... he must have a lot of conflicts and regrets of his life in Ush Natha that would make an awersome background.