I'll put in my two cents at saying that I have nothing against adding reactions to a drow PC, but the problem is: if new races were implemented, where does it stop? Tieflings? Duergar? Half-dragons? Natural lycanthropes?... actually, I'd really like that. But I digress. You add drow in because people want it, people start wanting twenty thousand different races until it just becomes ridiculous. I'd personally rather not see the floodgates opened.
And I have respect for the moderators and developers, but I just can not stand that often when someone has a really good idea, something easy and simple that would really improved the game, their reaction is: "I agree, it's a really good idea. Go and create a mod for that".
You've been told, on more than one occasion, by people who are a lot more involved in the game than you are, that this isn't a thing that's going to happen. Your response is to say that it's "easy and simple".
Do it yourself, then, and stop wasting everyone's time with pointless arguments. Or, hey, keep throwing yourself at that wall, see how far it gets you. Your choice.
something easy and simple that would really improved the game,
Even if making the change would "just" require something on the level of Baeloth in BGEE--and I'm not prepared to accept that premise without doing some serious research first--that doesn't mean it would be easy and simple. As the programmers frrequently remind me when I ask them for what I think is a minor change, nothing is easy and simple.
their reaction is: "I agree, it's a really good idea. Go and create a mod for that".
I'm not sure all the moderators and developers do agree that this particular idea is a good one. Even if it is, not all good ideas get used, for a wide variety of reasons.
I'll put in my two cents at saying that I have nothing against adding reactions to a drow PC, but the problem is: if new races were implemented, where does it stop? Tieflings? Duergar? Half-dragons? Natural lycanthropes?... actually, I'd really like that. But I digress. You add drow in because people want it, people start wanting twenty thousand different races until it just becomes ridiculous. I'd personally rather not see the floodgates opened.
Which goes right back to mods - you want a drow PC or a tiefling PC or, hell, I don't know, a gauth PC, it's probably out there. Go get it, install it, get your kicks the way you want to. All this arguing after being told, flat-out, that at the very best subraces aren't a priority? For what?
My opinion is that adding subraces like drow, tiefling, genasi etc. would not be feasible for numerous reasons pointed out in this thread. BUT I think devs could consider adding "less involving" subraces like all halfling, surface elves or dwarfs and human subraces. It shouldn't be a considerable task from an adjusting dialogs point of view but IMHO would add much flavor to the game. And adding subraces to vanilla game should stop at that otherwise the floodgate would propably open as @Artemius_I mentioned.
You've been told, on more than one occasion, by people who are a lot more involved in the game than you are, that this isn't a thing that's going to happen.
Some NPCs are irritated by the presence of Viconia, but those reactions are few and far between. We would likely just ignore the fact that the player is a Drow, if we add sub-races. I mean, nobody seems to mind when you burst into a tavern bristling with swords and summoned magical beasts.
Your response is to say that it's "easy and simple".
Do not twist my words, I never said anything like that. "When someone has a really good idea" does not mean "I have good idea" or "This is good idea". But I saw how it happened many people here on forum and i simply hate phrase "Go and create a mod".
This thread is quickly running to the no-return point.
Dear participants, take a pause, drink some tee and remember that going personal is against the site rules. If you want to discuss something, you can discuss it without discussing people.
Subraces is something players want and have wanted for years. If Beamdog won't code this then they should open up the engine for modifications by modders for noncommercial uses. One day in the near future the infinity engine enhanced games will be abandoned and it is very unlikely someone like Ascension64 will come along and give us an EEex modification so that we can overcome engine limitations.
I would like to improve my opinion if i'm allowed:
If beamdog CAN and DESIRE to make a complete overhaul on the game to add drow races, rewriting 50% of the game to bring coherence, making some NPCs unjoynable (even hostile) for an Drow NPC, some quests Undoable (and some others allowed only to Drow, maybe), give a cap of 15 to maximum reputation, no matter your alignment, make a total new chapter 6 (or a very well rewrite of the dialogues with the elf war party), attacks from guards no matter your reputation (after all with 15 reputation sometimes ppl don't know who you are) and some other needed changes....
Then i will suport an drow race as option in BG2.
If all that isn't a compromise of Beamdog, then i say no, cos the only drow characterist of a drow race in the game will be the name of the race displayed on character screen.
Subraces is something players want and have wanted for years. If Beamdog won't code this then they should open up the engine for modifications by modders for noncommercial uses. One day in the near future the infinity engine enhanced games will be abandoned and it is very unlikely someone like Ascension64 will come along and give us an EEex modification so that we can overcome engine limitations.
The possibility of "opening the code" depends on who actually owns the rights to the code. Beamdog may have access to the source code and rights to develop and distribute new versions of the engine, but that doesn't mean they own all the copyrights to the code necessary to open source it. My first guess is that Hasbro owns the code, but the baldursgate.com page lists a copyright statements for Bioware. So, they may still own some of the copyrights for the Infinity Engine code. IP can be complicated.
@Edvin and others may think that it would be perfectly fine for a Flaming Fist mercenary currently hunting a drow elf to remark to a drow CHARNAME without acknowledging CHARNAME's race "Step aside travelers, I am a member of the Flaming Fist. The woman you are harboring is wanted for murder of the foulest sort. She is a dark elf; it should be obvious that she is evil." I guess he assumes the Flaming Fist all have Intelligence scores of 3 and wouldn't notice that CHARNAME is also drow.
However, I don't think many players would be satisfied with Viconia NEVER even mentioning "hey you're a drow too!" or with Kivan readily agreeing to follow a drow CHARNAME (while he insults and eventually attacks Viconia for being a drow). Without those kinds of NPC reactions, it's just an elf with funky powers, which can be done with EE Keeper. If Beamdog is going to do it, it should be done right, not half-***ed.
If you *really* want this, then why not contribute code to GemRB to make subraces work in a BG2-engine game, or see if you can contribute improvements to the subraces mod for BGEE?
@Edvin and others may think that it would be perfectly fine for a Flaming Fist mercenary currently hunting a drow elf to remark to a drow CHARNAME without acknowledging CHARNAME's race "Step aside travelers, I am a member of the Flaming Fist. The woman you are harboring is wanted for murder of the foulest sort. She is a dark elf; it should be obvious that she is evil." I guess he assumes the Flaming Fist all have Intelligence scores of 3 and wouldn't notice that CHARNAME is also drow.
In fact, I think that he would skipped the first half of the dialog and directly attacked you, just as if you decides to protect Viconia. This is one of the few events that would require minor adjustments. And this thing should happen even if you are not Drow, but you will have Baeloth in group. And if you want fair conditions, this should happen also if you have summoned some monsters, demons, skeletons, if is one member of the group transformed werewolf, very likely, too, if is Dorn in the group etc.
So as you can see, members Flaming Fist are truly blind idiots... Why should be Drow the only ones who have some response?
Comments
Don't let's go down that road.
Do it yourself, then, and stop wasting everyone's time with pointless arguments. Or, hey, keep throwing yourself at that wall, see how far it gets you. Your choice.
In fact, there are several messages from developers where are subraces confirmed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1af7/we_are_overhaul_games_the_team_behind_baldurs/c60q4bn
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1af7/we_are_overhaul_games_the_team_behind_baldurs/c60pncv
Only recently begun to be all uncertain.
Phillip Daigle is even bigger supporter Drow than me
"When someone has a really good idea" does not mean "I have good idea" or "This is good idea".
But I saw how it happened many people here on forum and i simply hate phrase "Go and create a mod".
Dear participants, take a pause, drink some tee and remember that going personal is against the site rules. If you want to discuss something, you can discuss it without discussing people.
Leave Phillip alone! He is holly man!
After the arrival Great devourer and his Drow army, all heretics will be destroyed.
All hail Great devourer!
He will save us and bring Drow subrace.
If beamdog CAN and DESIRE to make a complete overhaul on the game to add drow races, rewriting 50% of the game to bring coherence, making some NPCs unjoynable (even hostile) for an Drow NPC, some quests Undoable (and some others allowed only to Drow, maybe), give a cap of 15 to maximum reputation, no matter your alignment, make a total new chapter 6 (or a very well rewrite of the dialogues with the elf war party), attacks from guards no matter your reputation (after all with 15 reputation sometimes ppl don't know who you are) and some other needed changes....
Then i will suport an drow race as option in BG2.
If all that isn't a compromise of Beamdog, then i say no, cos the only drow characterist of a drow race in the game will be the name of the race displayed on character screen.
@Edvin and others may think that it would be perfectly fine for a Flaming Fist mercenary currently hunting a drow elf to remark to a drow CHARNAME without acknowledging CHARNAME's race "Step aside travelers, I am a member of the Flaming Fist. The woman you are harboring is wanted for murder of the foulest sort. She is a dark elf; it should be obvious that she is evil." I guess he assumes the Flaming Fist all have Intelligence scores of 3 and wouldn't notice that CHARNAME is also drow.
However, I don't think many players would be satisfied with Viconia NEVER even mentioning "hey you're a drow too!" or with Kivan readily agreeing to follow a drow CHARNAME (while he insults and eventually attacks Viconia for being a drow). Without those kinds of NPC reactions, it's just an elf with funky powers, which can be done with EE Keeper. If Beamdog is going to do it, it should be done right, not half-***ed.
If you *really* want this, then why not contribute code to GemRB to make subraces work in a BG2-engine game, or see if you can contribute improvements to the subraces mod for BGEE?
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/16668/mod-beta-38-subraces-for-bg-ee-0-87-updated-3-11-2013/p1
So as you can see, members Flaming Fist are truly blind idiots...
Why should be Drow the only ones who have some response?
Together with SoD will be released HUGE patch for BG1 and BG2 that will change lot of things.
It has been officially confirmed several times.
And as for planned changes, we know only tip of the iceberg.
Everything is possible.