I meant specifically areas that are attached to the current game world that you can explore into, rather than stand alone disconnected areas ala BG2. Of course they are making new maps but I would like these maps to slot into the world naturally. To use a BG one example, in TOTSC you go to that northern town (I forget the name sorry) but then you're immediately sent off to some frosty cave complex that is disconnected from the world in the middle of nowhere. That's not the sort of progressive exploration I would like, since it feels like it is not actually a part of the world.
I know what you mean, I also love more BG1 because of free exploration, I even opened a thread about it in the past ( "wilderness areas in bg2:ee" ).
Trent said that they will try that the new content will blend well with the old one - Placing areas ToB/Icewind dale style will be truely feel out of place - and I want to believe they are aware of that.
Regarding Totsc, you also got the Werewolf Island and Durlag's Tower, and although they were "only" 3 new areas they blend-in very well in the world and were great additions - Any such addition is great for me.
And we are returning to the same point - Only time will tell. one and a half months isnt a lot of time, by than you will have a lot more information about the game and than you can decide if its worth for you or not.
Sorry, I'm totally lost on why this thread is so huge and such a hot topic... It seems to me that the thread was started to argue and challenge people on a point of view, simply for the sake of it, people are talking around and around in circles when, let's face it, the PC version is only one quarter of the release! The simple answer to the thread is, if anyone is in two minds about something and wants people to convince them on a course of action, then don't fight tooth and nail to keep on going agains what is said, doing that is simply passive aggressive trolling, if a group of people, all saying the same, thing can't convince a person, that say they wish to be convinced, then obviously they can't be. 5 pages of back and forth with no one getting anywhere is simply silly. I really feel that all this thread has become is an exercise in the argumentative nature of the board an over educated, it's simple, if you want it, buy it, you won't care about GOG or a price tag. If the question is really that big of a deal that you constantly check each and every post on the thread, to pick it apart, then that's just boredom, get a hobby.
Whenever i started a new run on bg series, i spent 2 days planning fixpacks and mods, check latest versions, check incopatibilities, etc. etc. Even with tools like BigWorldSetup, this whole process was tedious, time consuming, confusing and with a high potential for errors (that would be discovered only many hours of playing later when it might be too late, ...)
So for me the fact that most widely accepted fixes like TobEx, Fixpacks, 1pp, etc. being included to EE in a harmonised way, with testing and support is worth the 20 dollars alone. It means that players and modders have an updated, less buggy, supported and hopefully more flexible base "new-vanilla" state of the game to build upon, resulting in more intersting content mods instead of more - often incompatible - fixpacks.
The new NPCs, quests and some minor graphic changes are nice to have, but it's not the reason i'm looking forward to EE.
(they should not have announced it as "HD support" with the unchanged graphics from 1998 ... it leads to disappointment by many who might be interested)
I think what the guys at overhaul should do to make this game more appealing to EVERYONE is include an "awesome button". Bassically when you press this button "BAM!!" something awesome happens. No waiting, no stupid dialogue just awesome.
For example you press this button when you select minsc and boo does a flyings summersault out of his pocket and roundhouse kicks sarevok in the eye, at which point the world implodes.
I feel this is the best direction for the team to go and im sure 99% of you agree with me.
I think what the guys at overhaul should do to make this game more appealing to EVERYONE is include an "awesome button". Bassically when you press this button "BAM!!" something awesome happens. No waiting, no stupid dialogue just awesome.
LOL
Someone is very disappointed with Dragon Age 2, hm? Not that I wouldn't understand.
I was discussing this game with a friend and one thing we were talking about is why is there only going to be one kit added to the game for release (or one kit + one class depending on how you interpret it). Now I'm no modder myself, but I can't see it being hugely difficult to implement new classes into the game, and you don't need to worry too much about fully testing them for balance since that was already done when D&D was originally made, outside of BG. Pretty much all the core mechanics are already there, and it's not like new classes have unique paperdolls or anything. All I would expect it would involve is important some tables and modifying a few skills that already exist, and you could easily make some radically different playstyles. The $20 deal would be a lot more appetising if they could offer us 15 new classes to play through the game (or more).
I can understand paying $5-10 for new characters when they are fully fleshed out unique people in the world with voice acting and quest chains, but you really don't need any of that for some new classes. There's plenty of interesting classes to choose from in the source material (certainly more interesting than an anti-paladin in a game that doesn't reward you for being evil). It may only take a small amount of extra work to implement these sorts of things but it would give the perception that there was masses of new content and potential playability in the release, and for value for money it's definitely all about perception.
Sorry, I'm totally lost on why this thread is so huge and such a hot topic... It seems to me that the thread was started to argue and challenge people on a point of view, simply for the sake of it, people are talking around and around in circles when, let's face it, the PC version is only one quarter of the release! The simple answer to the thread is, if anyone is in two minds about something and wants people to convince them on a course of action, then don't fight tooth and nail to keep on going agains what is said, doing that is simply passive aggressive trolling, if a group of people, all saying the same, thing can't convince a person, that say they wish to be convinced, then obviously they can't be. 5 pages of back and forth with no one getting anywhere is simply silly. I really feel that all this thread has become is an exercise in the argumentative nature of the board an over educated, it's simple, if you want it, buy it, you won't care about GOG or a price tag. If the question is really that big of a deal that you constantly check each and every post on the thread, to pick it apart, then that's just boredom, get a hobby.
Considering your post is nothing but passive aggressive trolling it's kind of strange to see you accusing me of passive aggressive trolling, no? The point of "if a group of people, all saying the same, thing can't convince a person..." really doesn't make sense. If one person saying something isn't convincing then the next person saying the same thing will be as equally unconvincing. You know what isn't convincing? Telling someone their opinions and posts are wrong because you disagree or flat out don't care to offer anything.
Your post is adding nothing useful at all. The point of this thread was to ask why the game is asking for such a high price compared to the competition for what seems on the surface to be minor differences and very, very little over what has been readily available for years, for less. If I didn't care to read each post on the thread why would I make the discussion to begin with? That doesn't make any sense either. If I didn't care at all what people had to say I wouldn't respond to anyone.
If you don't care for the thread you don't need to jump in, tell people to shut up and and then insult me. Just don't post and stop reading it. There's plenty of other discussions on the board.
Also known as playing as a Wild Mage. Of course said awesome button also has the chance to turn your entire party into squirrels as well, but that's still awesome in its own way. If possible, mod the game to make wild surges 100% chance for best results. It's kind of like having a Wish spell cast on you every time you attempt to cast a spell, with a DM that is about as evil as it gets (those low rolls can be pretty damn awesome... for your enemies).
Kind of wish it could be a wild sorceror though. Give us that to play and then maybe we're talking.
Sorry, I'm totally lost on why this thread is so huge and such a hot topic... It seems to me that the thread was started to argue and challenge people on a point of view, simply for the sake of it, people are talking around and around in circles when, let's face it, the PC version is only one quarter of the release! The simple answer to the thread is, if anyone is in two minds about something and wants people to convince them on a course of action, then don't fight tooth and nail to keep on going agains what is said, doing that is simply passive aggressive trolling, if a group of people, all saying the same, thing can't convince a person, that say they wish to be convinced, then obviously they can't be. 5 pages of back and forth with no one getting anywhere is simply silly. I really feel that all this thread has become is an exercise in the argumentative nature of the board an over educated, it's simple, if you want it, buy it, you won't care about GOG or a price tag. If the question is really that big of a deal that you constantly check each and every post on the thread, to pick it apart, then that's just boredom, get a hobby.
This was a very interesting thread, with arguments and points discussed throughout its length.
Maybe you haven't considered that when we discuss opinions, you won't convince anyone, since there are arguments from both sides and it boils down to just that, opinion.
Torchlight 2 is 20$ and it's a new game, the guy asked if this was more worth than the gog version of the existing game.
The answer boiled down to "depends what you expect".
For me the game itself is not that worth it, since it's not new. What is worth it is the potential of it selling well, and allowing the devs to create something better for BG2:EE and maybe BG3.
Liking and supporting BG:EE, does not mean i believe that the enhancements are enough.
Opinions, a wonderful thing, and that is what yours is as well, an opinion, not a fact.
I believe there may be many people like me that played the game when it came out and enjoyed it for a year or more but have since lost the disks. Now we hear about this BG:EE and we think back to how awesome it was playing the game back in the day and want to take it for a spin again.
I believe the value will be there for me to buy on both PC and Android (whenever that is lol). Making the game so portable by putting it on iOS and Android seems like a real winner to me.
I was discussing this game with a friend and one thing we were talking about is why is there only going to be one kit added to the game for release (or one kit + one class depending on how you interpret it). Now I'm no modder myself, but I can't see it being hugely difficult to implement new classes into the game, and you don't need to worry too much about fully testing them for balance since that was already done when D&D was originally made, outside of BG. Pretty much all the core mechanics are already there, and it's not like new classes have unique paperdolls or anything. All I would expect it would involve is important some tables and modifying a few skills that already exist, and you could easily make some radically different playstyles. The $20 deal would be a lot more appetising if they could offer us 15 new classes to play through the game (or more).
Well, I know you could already get all the BG2 kits in BG1 with mods, but technically all of those are being implemented into BG1 with BGEE too.
Only Overhaul can really tell us why only 1 new kit in BGEE, but I guess there's a variety of reasons (all of which are of no concern to the consumer). BGEE will already have a lot of balancing problems with all the BG2 kits that were never balanced for level 1-7 play in BG1. Any other new kits will just bring more balancing problems. Not to mention that there's actually a lot of other work that needs to be done with BGEE. Maybe for BG2EE we'll have more kits being added since all the grunt work with modifying the BG2/ToB engine / fixing bugs / higher resolution support/ adapting the UI to new devices will already be done with BGEE leaving more resources and time available for the creation of new content for BG2EE.
I am happy that I will finally be able to see the game in it's appropriate scale again while using HD resolutions thanks to the zoom option. I like that I can bypass the 6 CD installation, the patches and fix- packs as well as all the mods. 3 new characters and a new kit with 12 hours of new content including new areas and art work created by original members from the Bioware team. Optimized for modern systems and hardware. All this for the price of a couple packs of smokes? I already pre-ordered.
These days the big corporations have pushed the standards so high that it costs too much for a small upstart company to even exist. The only way for niche gaming to return to life like in the 90's is for interested people to donate money to create games that interest them and can still turn a profit. Games like comand and conquer were born in somebody's garage and had tiny little micro machine graphics but they were inventive and gave birth to a whole new style of gaming that people still enjoy today. Game companies like Westwood cannot exist today because companies like EA will just eat them up and force them to conform to their practices.
In a way we are funding this dev team so that they will make 2D pre-rendered games with 3D spell effects in the same vain as Baldur's Gate. None of the big corporations will build a game like that because it wouldn't make the profits that they are interested in but it can be done and still make a good profit for smaller teams if smaller teams were allowed to exist in this monopolized industry. That is what this money is being put toward. It's funding the existance of a small dev team that works on passion and in the interest of a niche product. The fact that we get a more polished version of an old classic with a decade worth of mod improvements and hours of new content for our contribution is more than worth it in my opinion.
Heck, acension64's bergost crash fix is worth ten bones for all the trouble it will save me over the next 60 years.
This is a little off topic but it's something I'm seeing quite a lot, both here and around the forum.
Am I the only one that bought the original game on a single DVD? (housed in a massive cardboard box of course). Not that it really helps me because I don't have a disc drive on my laptop, but the option was there over a decade ago to not have 6 CDs.
This thread is amusing. But at the end of the day we are only talking about ten dollars regardless of the demand to not discus that fact. EA made their mint charging fifty to sixty dollars a pop rehashing the same old sports titles with little more than new rosters. Ten bucks for a fresh coat of paint on an absolute classic is a bargain. Do you question the value proposition of every Final Fantasy update? I believe they all run about twenty bucks on average and offer about the same thing. Square is still pushing original versions of the App Store for close to this price.
Don't get me wrong, I love GOG. They are one of the best services available for gamers and I wish I could purchase there. But I don't begrudge Beamdog for making a fair wage on their labor. That labor is sure to go away if they are not rewarded. All the promises in the world won't matter if too many take your position and wait to see what happens. Added content costs money and if they don't have any the content will not magically appear out of thin air. Ten bucks is not too much to take on faith that they will deliver.
And you keep talking about the age of the game. Who cares? A great game is a great game and always will be a great game. An updated version promising more gameplay is a great thing. There will be a ton of younger gamers that have never played that can get on board now. If the game is good they won't care how old it is or if they can get a "budget" version cheaper at a service they probably don't use anyway. I don't know the demographics for GOG. But I'm guessing they skew older.
And last, I find it ironic that you came to a site paid for by the very developers of this game to argue that they don't deserve the compensation they requested. Where do you think the money for this site comes from? It is funded by the game you don't want to buy. Either buy it or don't buy it. But it is bad form to throw stones from someones garden at their own house.
Kramer, you basically have a singular point, ( that you keep repeating over and over) that you personally feel the game is overpriced. However, this is your opinIon and not backed up by quantitative data. This thread is really based on a false premise. We have no access to market data, nor the methodology for pricing the game. We have no idea what the cross-platform development, licensing, marketing, and distribution costs are. So what are we left with? Not much, you're grasping at straws. Not only that, you're lashing out emotionally at anyone who is opposing your point of view. Frankly, unless you are privy to some super secret data that exposes an over pricing conspiracy, what is the point of continuing this thread ad infinium?
The GOG copy is cheaper and is more compatble with computers than the 1-4 edition box set for Baldurs Gate, however you still have to add mods and fixes and if you want to play multiplayer you need hamachi or gameranger and everyone needs to mod the game exactly the same.
Or you buy the more expensive enhanced edition, which will support future mods, requires a lot less fixes and patches if any, has multiplayer and cross platform play, supports a company with there sights set on making baldurs gate 2 enhanced edition and baldurs gate 3. you will also find the enhanced edition will play smoother and contains few new features that are made by proffesionls.
I dont see what is so difficult about the descion, at the end of the day, if you need convincing you already have the idea in your head that you are wanting to buy this enhanced edition, you can always wait for the game to be released and watch trailers or playthroughs by others and then make an informed descion. at the end of the day it is a price for the company to earn money but not too high to be a rip off.
Kramer, you basically have a singular point, ( that you keep repeating over and over) that you personally feel the game is overpriced. However, this is your opinIon and not backed up by quantitative data. This thread is really based on a false premise. We have no access to market data, nor the methodology for pricing the game. We have no idea what the cross-platform development, licensing, marketing, and distribution costs are. So what are we left with? Not much, you're grasping at straws. Not only that, you're lashing out emotionally at anyone who is opposing your point of view. Frankly, unless you are privy to some super secret data that exposes an over pricing conspiracy, what is the point of continuing this thread ad infinium?
I will assume you mean me when you said Kramer (is this an attempt at humour? I'm not sure I get it). You are right about not backing up with quantitative data, however not for the reasons you accuse I expect. Quantitative data deals with objective data that can make a definitive answer based on mathematical principles etc. Value for money is subjective, and about as subjective as it gets. There simply isn't anything quantitative about it. Qualitative data I do offer however. Just because you disagree with it that does not mean it is not there.
That said I opened talking about what is on offer vs what is on offer by the competition, the differences and the differences in price. Whilst I definitely didn't have all the facts and some stuff has been corrected later, I most definitely did offer reasoning and arguments for why I thought it was overpriced beyond simply "it's just overpriced". I do indeed have a singular point about the pricing of the game, but that's unsurprising because this thread is specifically about the pricing of the game.
Access to market data is irrelevant since this discussion is about the game offered here, which we know both the price and the content available, and the game offered elsewhere, which we also know the price and the content available. This isn't a thread about whether this game can sell for the price tag offered, it was about whether it is a good deal compared to the competition offering the same game in a different form. Licensing, marketing and distributing costs are also irrelevant. That's not our problem as the customer, it isn't up to us to ensure that the developers meet a successful profit margin. If a developer cannot make a profit without inflating their prices then they have a problem with overspending. Like I have said repeatedly: this isn't a normal game release. The game is already available from competition for a significantly reduced price. It is not unreasonable to question what is offered when there is direct competition for a competitor offering the same product. Where exactly is this elusive false premise? I ask about value for money, I get some good replies discussing it and then we get people like you that act like children about it because you don't immediately get your way.
Something I do find interesting is that when someone makes a point in favour of the game it is instantly considered a good point and agreeable, however when anyone makes a point against the game they are accused of having an agenda or being dismissive and met with openly aggressive reactions. There's a difference between being critical and challenging reasoning, and just flat out attacking people. And frankly so far the only people I can see 'lashing out' at other people are you and a few other people arguing in favour of the game. You may not agree with what I say but I don't resort to attacking the people making the posts like you do. It's all very well to accuse someone of being aggressive if they're being aggressive to people, however you're just doing it because you're annoyed I'm not immediately agreeing with you. Unsurprisingly it is hard to agree with someone that is talking down to you without even making any point to support their argument. If you think there's nothing to be had from a thread don't post it in, don't dump on everyone else because you stopped caring about it. If you don't agree with someone's opinion that's fine too, but it's still just an opinion. That doesn't make it wrong or pointless, it just makes it different to yours.
Something I do find interesting is that when someone makes a point in favour of the game it is instantly considered a good point and agreeable, however when anyone makes a point against the game they are accused of having an agenda or being dismissive and met with openly aggressive reactions.
Don't you think that you're only looking at one side of things?
Regardless, there haven't been any new arguments being presented for a long while now. People just keep going in circles.
Realistically, if the release price is $20, 6 months down the line it will probably go on sale. On the iPad, apps regularly have super promotions for a limited time. Digital distribution is a whole new way of pricing. Similar to the current eboik pricing controversy. Frankly though, I think most people who want BGee on day one will not be put off of the initial pricing. On the iPad, $10 is on the high end for a game, but reasonable for a premium offering... Which we all hope BGee will be.
I thought we established that whether or not the game is worth it, depends on each person's preferences.
For you it's worth it, for another a bit less so and so on.
I'll give you the same argument.
Arguably, the game should be 20$ if it offered more, maybe more visually too.
On the other hand we have two factors :
1) We don't know if this is the full list of enhancements yet, only what has been approved for presentation to the public so far.
2) Baldur's Gate is a tricky pony, and since Beamdog, arguably a smaller company is doing the enhancement, they should at least get push for the first game so we up their budget, and if then they fail to deliver, well they had the chance at least.
I understand that they have a lot of problems to deal with, contract limitations, tight budget etc.
Of course people might not care about that and say "Why did you want to make an enhancement then?"
If you want to argue about the price itself, you'll get confused easily, Dragon Age 2 was 50 euros+ here, and Torchlight 2 is 20 dollars. Compared to the first it seems more than worth it, compared to the second, maybe the deal falls a bit behind.
I certainly would like more enhancements, especially visually, i'm not hiding it, they must at least thought the possibility of these "new potential customers" seeing the game and saying that it looks too dated.
In the end i put down "numbers". I'm not gonna post this list of my numbers yet, i'll do it when i have the game in my hands and played it, but i'll tell you the conclusion so far.
Are there some things i like about BG:EE? Yes there are. + for Beamdog
Are there things i don't like about it? Yes and probably stronger than the first. - for Beamdog
Do i think Beamdog could do something better? Maybe yes, on some things, but in general they are somewhat limited on this first release. Neither plus nor minus here
Do i want Beamdog to continue, to up their budget and do something better with BG2:EE and a potential BG3? Yes i do. + for them.
So Beamdog wins 2-1. They have support, at least mine, and they get the benefit to listen to my whining when i don't like something. Everyone wins :P
My advice? It might not sound like a good deal now, but 10$ is not that much, you can support the first game, and if you see that it didn't go as you had hoped with their directions, you can halt your support.
I at least want to see first hand their first enhancement on this by playing it.
Maybe mods could do npcs and stuff, but if they are soo damn good written, they could even be worth more than these 10$, along with everything else of course that is not revealed yet.
So, i started to write 2 things, and wrote 200 things instead.
@Tanthalas I agree. i have this conversation bookmarked because in all honesty i do find peoples points interesting and it did generally start as a pretty constructive thread in my opinion but the general direction of this thread has kind of gone in circles for a while now.
i think new content done on a professional level, added compatibility, expanded moddability, platform and content integration is certainly worth it.
what i hope is that developers get ALL of the 20$. i remember they aimed at 10$ at first and i hate the idea they might have had to inflate the price to pay to the various external sources. i can't do anything about it anyway, so...
I'm a big time BG/BG2 fan, and I was incredibly excited when I heard news about a re-make and potential BG3. I'm pretty careful with my money, I don't go spending on every new game that comes out. That being said, I am undecided on whether to purchase BGEE or not. Let me tell you why.
From the announcements, we can assume that BGEE is BG1+ToSC Expansion + New Content. New Content has been described as "6 hours of gameplay" plus "4 hours of new gameplay for every new character" I'm going to be realistic here and assume that those are exaggerated numbers. Every game likes to market itself as more hours than it really is. Frankly, one Underdark arena does not seem like a big adventure from what I can imagine.
You all know there is a great fan community for BG that has already released a ton of useful mods. At this point, all I see for BGEE is a modified UI BG with a widescreen mod, new quest mod, 3 new character mods. (Don't care about multiplayer)
Is that worth the money? Why would I spend money to buy a game when I can already get almost all those things for free through mods?
The answer depends on how much of an enhancement that BGEE provides. If BGEE just connects those mods and doesn't change much about the game, I would not buy it. On the other hand, if BGEE really made a new game out of this, and actually gave meaningful and lengthy new adventure, I would buy it.
New Content > New Characters/Interface/Balance/Fixes
That's because New Content is what really makes a old game new. Why would I buy something that I can already get through mods? But I can't get the new content through mods.
So here is my advice to the current developers: Please spend the remaining time until Sep. 18th to continue adding more new content (new adventure) to BGEE. We would rather have 10 hours of new gameplay over 6 hours of new gameplay. That's how you guys will convince me and other un-decided fans of BG to buy this game. I doubt it's just me that wants more new content.
P.S. please make it so that you can roam the cities and the world even after finishing the game. That's a big plus.
If the difference is $10 then it might be worthwhile to breakdown this $10 total and see if the different elements combined are worth the total cost.
For me the pricetags can be broken down something like this;
New Areas/Content - $2 New interactable PCs - $2 No need to spend hours installing mods which may break the game (usually hours into the game) - $2 Multiplayer Cross-Platform Support - $2 Ongoing Support/Improvements - $2
None of the above costs are unreasonable, in fact I would pay more for each of the above for a game franchise I love (especially the out-of-box mods and multiplayer).
I'm also not even mentioning other improvements such as cross-platform saves, bug fixes, UI improvements etc...
@ghostowl Set a side the new content ( New NPCs, Portraits, voice sets, Adventure X- the black pits, Adventure Y -??? - All made by professional writer, musician and artists ), you also get a alot of improvements such as enhanced journal,new GUI, more encounters, the game will run much smoother and faster, no loading screens, new cinematics, on going support and will be compatible with all the new mods that will come out in the future. all that vs old Bg1 version which you need to invest hours just to start the game. your call.
Is that worth the money? Why would I spend money to buy a game when I can already get almost all those things for free through mods?
Now be honest with yourself, How many NEW mods, specially quest related, are there for Baldurs Gate 1??? I bet you can count them on one hand, and you will still be left with 5 fingers spare..
@mch202 - A fix for the fog weather effect has already been requested as part of the ToBEx fixes bundle. The devs are aware, and IIRC @CameronTofer said weather effects were going to be overhauled.
Comments
I know what you mean, I also love more BG1 because of free exploration, I even opened a thread about it in the past ( "wilderness areas in bg2:ee" ).
Trent said that they will try that the new content will blend well with the old one - Placing areas ToB/Icewind dale style will be truely feel out of place - and I want to believe they are aware of that.
Regarding Totsc, you also got the Werewolf Island and Durlag's Tower, and although they were "only" 3 new areas they blend-in very well in the world and were great additions - Any such addition is great for me.
And we are returning to the same point - Only time will tell. one and a half months isnt a lot of time, by than you will have a lot more information about the game and than you can decide if its worth for you or not.
Whenever i started a new run on bg series, i spent 2 days planning fixpacks and mods, check latest versions, check incopatibilities, etc. etc. Even with tools like BigWorldSetup, this whole process was tedious, time consuming, confusing and with a high potential for errors (that would be discovered only many hours of playing later when it might be too late, ...)
So for me the fact that most widely accepted fixes like TobEx, Fixpacks, 1pp, etc. being included to EE in a harmonised way, with testing and support is worth the 20 dollars alone. It means that players and modders have an updated, less buggy, supported and hopefully more flexible base "new-vanilla" state of the game to build upon, resulting in more intersting content mods instead of more - often incompatible - fixpacks.
The new NPCs, quests and some minor graphic changes are nice to have, but it's not the reason i'm looking forward to EE.
(they should not have announced it as "HD support" with the unchanged graphics from 1998 ... it leads to disappointment by many who might be interested)
For example you press this button when you select minsc and boo does a flyings summersault out of his pocket and roundhouse kicks sarevok in the eye, at which point the world implodes.
I feel this is the best direction for the team to go and im sure 99% of you agree with me.
/sarcasm
Someone is very disappointed with Dragon Age 2, hm? Not that I wouldn't understand.
I can understand paying $5-10 for new characters when they are fully fleshed out unique people in the world with voice acting and quest chains, but you really don't need any of that for some new classes. There's plenty of interesting classes to choose from in the source material (certainly more interesting than an anti-paladin in a game that doesn't reward you for being evil). It may only take a small amount of extra work to implement these sorts of things but it would give the perception that there was masses of new content and potential playability in the release, and for value for money it's definitely all about perception. Considering your post is nothing but passive aggressive trolling it's kind of strange to see you accusing me of passive aggressive trolling, no? The point of "if a group of people, all saying the same, thing can't convince a person..." really doesn't make sense. If one person saying something isn't convincing then the next person saying the same thing will be as equally unconvincing. You know what isn't convincing? Telling someone their opinions and posts are wrong because you disagree or flat out don't care to offer anything.
Your post is adding nothing useful at all. The point of this thread was to ask why the game is asking for such a high price compared to the competition for what seems on the surface to be minor differences and very, very little over what has been readily available for years, for less. If I didn't care to read each post on the thread why would I make the discussion to begin with? That doesn't make any sense either. If I didn't care at all what people had to say I wouldn't respond to anyone.
If you don't care for the thread you don't need to jump in, tell people to shut up and and then insult me. Just don't post and stop reading it. There's plenty of other discussions on the board.
@Excalibur_2102
Also known as playing as a Wild Mage. Of course said awesome button also has the chance to turn your entire party into squirrels as well, but that's still awesome in its own way. If possible, mod the game to make wild surges 100% chance for best results. It's kind of like having a Wish spell cast on you every time you attempt to cast a spell, with a DM that is about as evil as it gets (those low rolls can be pretty damn awesome... for your enemies).
Kind of wish it could be a wild sorceror though. Give us that to play and then maybe we're talking.
Maybe you haven't considered that when we discuss opinions, you won't convince anyone, since there are arguments from both sides and it boils down to just that, opinion.
Torchlight 2 is 20$ and it's a new game, the guy asked if this was more worth than the gog version of the existing game.
The answer boiled down to "depends what you expect".
For me the game itself is not that worth it, since it's not new. What is worth it is the potential of it selling well, and allowing the devs to create something better for BG2:EE and maybe BG3.
Liking and supporting BG:EE, does not mean i believe that the enhancements are enough.
Opinions, a wonderful thing, and that is what yours is as well, an opinion, not a fact.
I believe the value will be there for me to buy on both PC and Android (whenever that is lol). Making the game so portable by putting it on iOS and Android seems like a real winner to me.
Only Overhaul can really tell us why only 1 new kit in BGEE, but I guess there's a variety of reasons (all of which are of no concern to the consumer). BGEE will already have a lot of balancing problems with all the BG2 kits that were never balanced for level 1-7 play in BG1. Any other new kits will just bring more balancing problems. Not to mention that there's actually a lot of other work that needs to be done with BGEE. Maybe for BG2EE we'll have more kits being added since all the grunt work with modifying the BG2/ToB engine / fixing bugs / higher resolution support/ adapting the UI to new devices will already be done with BGEE leaving more resources and time available for the creation of new content for BG2EE.
These days the big corporations have pushed the standards so high that it costs too much for a small upstart company to even exist. The only way for niche gaming to return to life like in the 90's is for interested people to donate money to create games that interest them and can still turn a profit. Games like comand and conquer were born in somebody's garage and had tiny little micro machine graphics but they were inventive and gave birth to a whole new style of gaming that people still enjoy today. Game companies like Westwood cannot exist today because companies like EA will just eat them up and force them to conform to their practices.
In a way we are funding this dev team so that they will make 2D pre-rendered games with 3D spell effects in the same vain as Baldur's Gate. None of the big corporations will build a game like that because it wouldn't make the profits that they are interested in but it can be done and still make a good profit for smaller teams if smaller teams were allowed to exist in this monopolized industry. That is what this money is being put toward. It's funding the existance of a small dev team that works on passion and in the interest of a niche product. The fact that we get a more polished version of an old classic with a decade worth of mod improvements and hours of new content for our contribution is more than worth it in my opinion.
Heck, acension64's bergost crash fix is worth ten bones for all the trouble it will save me over the next 60 years.
Am I the only one that bought the original game on a single DVD? (housed in a massive cardboard box of course). Not that it really helps me because I don't have a disc drive on my laptop, but the option was there over a decade ago to not have 6 CDs.
Don't get me wrong, I love GOG. They are one of the best services available for gamers and I wish I could purchase there. But I don't begrudge Beamdog for making a fair wage on their labor. That labor is sure to go away if they are not rewarded. All the promises in the world won't matter if too many take your position and wait to see what happens. Added content costs money and if they don't have any the content will not magically appear out of thin air. Ten bucks is not too much to take on faith that they will deliver.
And you keep talking about the age of the game. Who cares? A great game is a great game and always will be a great game. An updated version promising more gameplay is a great thing. There will be a ton of younger gamers that have never played that can get on board now. If the game is good they won't care how old it is or if they can get a "budget" version cheaper at a service they probably don't use anyway. I don't know the demographics for GOG. But I'm guessing they skew older.
And last, I find it ironic that you came to a site paid for by the very developers of this game to argue that they don't deserve the compensation they requested. Where do you think the money for this site comes from? It is funded by the game you don't want to buy. Either buy it or don't buy it. But it is bad form to throw stones from someones garden at their own house.
Or you buy the more expensive enhanced edition, which will support future mods, requires a lot less fixes and patches if any, has multiplayer and cross platform play, supports a company with there sights set on making baldurs gate 2 enhanced edition and baldurs gate 3. you will also find the enhanced edition will play smoother and contains few new features that are made by proffesionls.
I dont see what is so difficult about the descion, at the end of the day, if you need convincing you already have the idea in your head that you are wanting to buy this enhanced edition, you can always wait for the game to be released and watch trailers or playthroughs by others and then make an informed descion. at the end of the day it is a price for the company to earn money but not too high to be a rip off.
That said I opened talking about what is on offer vs what is on offer by the competition, the differences and the differences in price. Whilst I definitely didn't have all the facts and some stuff has been corrected later, I most definitely did offer reasoning and arguments for why I thought it was overpriced beyond simply "it's just overpriced". I do indeed have a singular point about the pricing of the game, but that's unsurprising because this thread is specifically about the pricing of the game.
Access to market data is irrelevant since this discussion is about the game offered here, which we know both the price and the content available, and the game offered elsewhere, which we also know the price and the content available. This isn't a thread about whether this game can sell for the price tag offered, it was about whether it is a good deal compared to the competition offering the same game in a different form. Licensing, marketing and distributing costs are also irrelevant. That's not our problem as the customer, it isn't up to us to ensure that the developers meet a successful profit margin. If a developer cannot make a profit without inflating their prices then they have a problem with overspending. Like I have said repeatedly: this isn't a normal game release. The game is already available from competition for a significantly reduced price. It is not unreasonable to question what is offered when there is direct competition for a competitor offering the same product. Where exactly is this elusive false premise? I ask about value for money, I get some good replies discussing it and then we get people like you that act like children about it because you don't immediately get your way.
Something I do find interesting is that when someone makes a point in favour of the game it is instantly considered a good point and agreeable, however when anyone makes a point against the game they are accused of having an agenda or being dismissive and met with openly aggressive reactions. There's a difference between being critical and challenging reasoning, and just flat out attacking people. And frankly so far the only people I can see 'lashing out' at other people are you and a few other people arguing in favour of the game. You may not agree with what I say but I don't resort to attacking the people making the posts like you do. It's all very well to accuse someone of being aggressive if they're being aggressive to people, however you're just doing it because you're annoyed I'm not immediately agreeing with you. Unsurprisingly it is hard to agree with someone that is talking down to you without even making any point to support their argument. If you think there's nothing to be had from a thread don't post it in, don't dump on everyone else because you stopped caring about it. If you don't agree with someone's opinion that's fine too, but it's still just an opinion. That doesn't make it wrong or pointless, it just makes it different to yours.
Regardless, there haven't been any new arguments being presented for a long while now. People just keep going in circles.
For you it's worth it, for another a bit less so and so on.
I'll give you the same argument.
Arguably, the game should be 20$ if it offered more, maybe more visually too.
On the other hand we have two factors :
1) We don't know if this is the full list of enhancements yet, only what has been approved for presentation to the public so far.
2) Baldur's Gate is a tricky pony, and since Beamdog, arguably a smaller company is doing the enhancement, they should at least get push for the first game so we up their budget, and if then they fail to deliver, well they had the chance at least.
I understand that they have a lot of problems to deal with, contract limitations, tight budget etc.
Of course people might not care about that and say "Why did you want to make an enhancement then?"
If you want to argue about the price itself, you'll get confused easily, Dragon Age 2 was 50 euros+ here, and Torchlight 2 is 20 dollars. Compared to the first it seems more than worth it, compared to the second, maybe the deal falls a bit behind.
I certainly would like more enhancements, especially visually, i'm not hiding it, they must at least thought the possibility of these "new potential customers" seeing the game and saying that it looks too dated.
In the end i put down "numbers". I'm not gonna post this list of my numbers yet, i'll do it when i have the game in my hands and played it, but i'll tell you the conclusion so far.
Are there some things i like about BG:EE? Yes there are. + for Beamdog
Are there things i don't like about it? Yes and probably stronger than the first. - for Beamdog
Do i think Beamdog could do something better? Maybe yes, on some things, but in general they are somewhat limited on this first release. Neither plus nor minus here
Do i want Beamdog to continue, to up their budget and do something better with BG2:EE and a potential BG3? Yes i do. + for them.
So Beamdog wins 2-1. They have support, at least mine, and they get the benefit to listen to my whining when i don't like something. Everyone wins :P
My advice? It might not sound like a good deal now, but 10$ is not that much, you can support the first game, and if you see that it didn't go as you had hoped with their directions, you can halt your support.
I at least want to see first hand their first enhancement on this by playing it.
Maybe mods could do npcs and stuff, but if they are soo damn good written, they could even be worth more than these 10$, along with everything else of course that is not revealed yet.
So, i started to write 2 things, and wrote 200 things instead.
Oh well :P
what i hope is that developers get ALL of the 20$. i remember they aimed at 10$ at first and i hate the idea they might have had to inflate the price to pay to the various external sources. i can't do anything about it anyway, so...
From the announcements, we can assume that BGEE is BG1+ToSC Expansion + New Content.
New Content has been described as "6 hours of gameplay" plus "4 hours of new gameplay for every new character"
I'm going to be realistic here and assume that those are exaggerated numbers. Every game likes to market itself as more hours than it really is. Frankly, one Underdark arena does not seem like a big adventure from what I can imagine.
You all know there is a great fan community for BG that has already released a ton of useful mods. At this point, all I see for BGEE is a modified UI BG with a widescreen mod, new quest mod, 3 new character mods. (Don't care about multiplayer)
Is that worth the money? Why would I spend money to buy a game when I can already get almost all those things for free through mods?
The answer depends on how much of an enhancement that BGEE provides. If BGEE just connects those mods and doesn't change much about the game, I would not buy it. On the other hand, if BGEE really made a new game out of this, and actually gave meaningful and lengthy new adventure, I would buy it.
New Content > New Characters/Interface/Balance/Fixes
That's because New Content is what really makes a old game new. Why would I buy something that I can already get through mods? But I can't get the new content through mods.
So here is my advice to the current developers: Please spend the remaining time until Sep. 18th to continue adding more new content (new adventure) to BGEE. We would rather have 10 hours of new gameplay over 6 hours of new gameplay. That's how you guys will convince me and other un-decided fans of BG to buy this game. I doubt it's just me that wants more new content.
P.S. please make it so that you can roam the cities and the world even after finishing the game. That's a big plus.
For me the pricetags can be broken down something like this;
New Areas/Content - $2
New interactable PCs - $2
No need to spend hours installing mods which may break the game (usually hours into the game) - $2
Multiplayer Cross-Platform Support - $2
Ongoing Support/Improvements - $2
None of the above costs are unreasonable, in fact I would pay more for each of the above for a game franchise I love (especially the out-of-box mods and multiplayer).
I'm also not even mentioning other improvements such as cross-platform saves, bug fixes, UI improvements etc...
Paying the extra $10 is my mind is well worth it.
I merged your thread with this one since it deals with the same issues.
@ghostowl
Set a side the new content ( New NPCs, Portraits, voice sets, Adventure X- the black pits, Adventure Y -??? - All made by professional writer, musician and artists ), you also get a alot of improvements such as enhanced journal,new GUI, more encounters, the game will run much smoother and faster, no loading screens, new cinematics, on going support and will be compatible with all the new mods that will come out in the future. all that vs old Bg1 version which you need to invest hours just to start the game. your call. Now be honest with yourself, How many NEW mods, specially quest related, are there for Baldurs Gate 1??? I bet you can count them on one hand, and you will still be left with 5 fingers spare..
I don't remember Overhaul confirming weather improvements.