I will personally wait for better, high-res screenshots and HD gameplay footage before I make up my mind, but yeah -- so far I am on the fence about this edition and agree with you that a lot of what they're doing can already be accomplished through mods. The remade interface is what interests me most, really, and I wanna see more details on that, but on its own it would not be worth the price tag.
The thing that, in my opinion, kind of sealed this project's fate is that BioWare apparently lost the games' original art assets... Which is why they have to resort to filters and up-scaling to "enhance" the visuals and that's just not a great way of doing it.
Then why aren't they adding the Black Pits to the core game? The way I understand it, it's because they simply can't add new areas to the existing content -- I might be wrong about this being due to contractual limitations, and it might because of technical ones instead, but that is still a big roadblock right there -- also for future DLC.
For me, a standalone dungeon that is not accessible in the main game, like Durlag's Tower or Watcher's Keep in BG2, but can only be played as a separate adventure, feels very detached and is simply not as valuable.
@Lorfean First thing they clearly said that 'The Pits' is an addition to players who like tactical combat combat and demanded it, Also Its good enhancement to the Multi-player aspect, which was lacking.
Now think of it, 'The Pits' is a dungeon of 15 Levels! do you believe that you can implement a 15 level dungeon to the original game, without severely hurting the balance of the game?
'The Pits' is "adventure x" , there is supposed to be also "adventure y" who is bhaalspawn story related, though Trent Oster latley somewhat sarcasticly denied it.. time will tell
@Lorfaen They are adding areas to the core game for the new NPCs, so that's clearly not the issue.
My guess is that the Black Pits are separate from the core game because it offers gameplay that is well suited for multiplayer games, so that players would be encouraged to use the new and improved multiplayer features.
I have personally never had an interest in playing BG as a multiplayer game, because it seems tedious to essentially have one player go through the story while others tag along for the battles, not to mention the hassle of organizing sessions to get through such a long game (I am sure others disagree completely with this, but I still get the impression that the vast majority see BG as a single player game only).
The Black Pits, on the other hand, seem like a good way to jump straight into some mid- to high-level action, where a multiplayer party can actually see some progression over a few hours of playing. I think the people who are (prematurely) disappointed with this content are too set on playing BG as single player only, the way it used to be.
I may be wrong, of course, but I see this as a good chance to get some friends together and experience the game in a new way.
I would add the detail that although the assets may mostly remain untouched, the rendering engine will be replaced to be simpler, faster and most importantly run well on modern hardware. That may sooner or later become a significant difference for everyone not wanting to run the ToB engine on a virtual machine to avoid glitches. Truth be told, I didn't look for mods solving such issues.
Official fixes and patches make me more comfortable as well.
Also worth mentioning: EE has native cross-platform support (windows, mac, ios, android) with updated multiplayer, and a streamlined game engine (no loading screens).
Just so youre aware they CAN and have added new areas to the core game. The NPCs have at least one new area each (apart from maybe Dorn), and Im sure there will be NPC interaction between these new characters and old.
Other than that Lorfeans post is pretty accurate.
However they are meant to be doing stuff with multiplayer as well, but we havent heard much on this.
- They are adding a few new recrutable NPC's and a standalone dungeon (as in: not accessible in the core game).
- Contractually they are not allowed to change anything about the story or add any new areas to the core game. They also do not have access to any assets from Torment or the Icewind Dale series.
EE has native cross-platform support (windows, mac, ios, android) with updated multiplayer, and a streamlined game engine (no loading screens).
BGT fixes this as well. No problems running good old BG1+2 with BGT in 64bit-os and so on. There are still loading screens but they appear for 2-3 seconds on modern hardware. ;-)
Edit: I still cannot see a difference between free mods like BGT-WeiDU and this; except it runs on iOS and android.
Yes as was mentioned above, they are adding new locations on the map for each of the new NPC's. 12 hours of gameplay will take place in these 3 new locations.
Here is my take on the situation. They can add as much content as they like as long as it doesn't alter the original game content. For example, they can't add a new building to a pre-existing map or add new banter about a pre-existing area or NPC. They can add new locations and characters and they can add new banter for those locations and characters. Also new characters can comment on old locations.
I believe the problem is that more content will inbalance the game. If they add 60 hours of new quests you would either hit an XP cap before you even started those new quests or you would be way to powerful when you started BG2. The same goes for new items and spells. They would need to be very carefully balanced.
Personally, I feel that if they have the time and money to add any real meat to chew on it will be in TOB. Mainly because most characters couldn't hit the XP cap in that game to begin with and there are no other games after it that would be inbalanced. Since TOB was an expansion pack but stood as BG3 in terms of story, it would make sense that the bulk of new content would probably end up in TOB to make it more like BG3 instead of an expansion. Also, BG2EE is still a ways away and so it gives them the time they need with the money from the original BGEE to actually do something. I am sure that they are waiting to see how well BGEE does before they can even finalize the possabilites for the next EE title.
As for the graphics, I highly doubt that they will look worse than the original. We will have to wait and see but I have a feeling that those screenshots are not near the quality of what it actually looks like when it is being rendered in real time.
Dude, if you can't fork outjust 20 bucks to show some support to Trent Oster's team and the work they have put into making this game even more enjoyable, not to mention their view on games, then I don't have anything more to say. Modern games are worth 60 bucks and usually deliver only half of what Baldur's Gate has to offer, usually also milking the customer afterwards with content cut out of the game or DLC for the 'full experience'. The current view of big gaming companies is running rather shallow, therefore I want to show my support to Oster, because from what I have seen (his Tweets on Twitter, for example), I believe he still knows what good gaming is and should be. Really, people ar nitpicking so much nowadays. *sigh*
Modern games are worth 60 bucks and usually deliver only half of what Baldur's Gate has to offer, usually also milking the customer afterwards with content cut out of the game or DLC for the 'full experience'.
And the developers of this so-called "Enhanced Edition" milk the mod community that has been working for years in order to improve BG. Enhanced Journal, enhanced GUI, better resolutions etc.
Tanthalas is talking about the rendering engine and how it can sometimes lag even on modern machines because of the fact that some elements are still being software rendered. I believe Trent and the gang have moved all of the rendering to hardware.
You are talking about game speed... which is not exactly the same thing...
The thing that I'm actually most excited for (aside from the all new content) is the lack of loading screens, I believe this will up the immersion factor greatly
Modern games are worth 60 bucks and usually deliver only half of what Baldur's Gate has to offer, usually also milking the customer afterwards with content cut out of the game or DLC for the 'full experience'.
And the developers of this so-called "Enhanced Edition" milk the mod community that has been working for years in order to improve BG. Enhanced Journal, enhanced GUI, better resolutions etc.
Miliking the mod community??!!! ha.... a lot of the big modders are here and exchange information with the devs, mainly the devs give information regarding the SOURCE CODE to the modders that wasnt known to them before, so it will be easier to make mods in the future. the only mod from the community is the 1pp - with full permission and cooperation.
and some of the "developers of this so-called "Enhanced Edition" are the ones who developed the original Baldurs gate.
I don't think that Dorn comes with a new area. So its only the new areas for Rasaad and Neera.
Right on, thanks for correcting me but the point I was making about new content and game balance still stands. It would be four hours of new content that takes place in pre-existing area and 8 hours of new content in 2 new locations on the map.
and some of the "developers of this so-called "Enhanced Edition" are the ones who developed the original Baldurs gate.
And that is why they are limited contractually in certain issues. Because the original developers are not allowed to change their own work. Seems logical. ;-)
I think what they said was that each NPC adds 4 hours of gameplay, which probably includes their banters and not just the new areas.
But honestly, lets be reasonable here, I doubt that 2 new maps will add 8 hours of gameplay as you said. That's a truck load of wishful thinking. Developers are always overly optimistic about how much time content takes to be completed.
I don't think that the new areas will be as empty as the vanilla BG1 areas. They'll probably have more stuff to kill at least, but it'll never takes 4 hours to complete a map. I'd probably compare the new areas to bigger maps found in later IE games.
Its good to have expectations for the game, but lets keep them realistic.
and some of the "developers of this so-called "Enhanced Edition" are the ones who developed the original Baldurs gate.
And that is why they are limited contractually in certain issues. Because the original developers are not allowed to change their own work. Seems logical. ;-)
Convenient of you to just ignore the rest of my response doesn't it?
when I say SOME OF i dont mean ALL OF, Its not Bioware that is making the enhanced edition - its beamdog, a groub of 10-18 people. and the fact that you created something for a company doesnt mean you can alter it afterwards, because its the company possession now. and the contractual limitation is due to the fact that Atari, Bioware and Wotc have rights on the game, and to each group has its own demands.
Well maybe they are being overly optimistic as you say. I'm just taking the information we have which states that we will get four hours of gameplay for each new character. I would imagine that the four hours probably takes place in the new locations that they added for those new characters. I didn't feel that I was being unreasonable or unrealistic since that is what the main page says.
Oh, it wasn't meant as a criticism, I just think its better if we keep are expectations in check. Like I said, developers are often times overly optimistic with the length of their games.
i really hope for clear upscaled graphics. i realize images have their limitations, but some things are not excusable. anyway, i hope developers simply presented us with prewiev, not final look...
(oh, and btw- if people in csi can discern the reflection of murderer in a small vase on a 600x400 image, then what's the upscaling problem here?! )
Oh, it wasn't meant as a criticism, I just think its better if we keep are expectations in check. Like I said, developers are often times overly optimistic with the length of their games.
No problem, I agree that we shouldn't expect too much as it will just let us down if we do. However, I consider the extra content a nice bonus and nothing else. I still have the original 5 CD set and I was wanting to buy a new version that is more compact but I didn't feel like paying for the game again over something so trivial. This new version offers some things that mods cannot and simplifies the installation while adding some new gameplay so it's the perfect excuse for me to buy it. No more discs=nice.
I think it's plain that EE does more than "just what you already get from the free mods".
I've spent plenty of time installing mods on top of my previous BG installs, and I'd happily pay $20 for EE even if all it did was to incorporate some of the must have bug fixes and interface ports in a simple package.
As it stands, the UI rewrite (enabling hardware acceleration and removing load screens) and cross platform support are IMO still the biggest selling points of this release. The game content is already phenomenal -- there's a reason why we still care after 14 years.
Still puzzled as to why Lorfean seems so convinced that they cant add new areas to the game when it clearly states on the main website that theres new areas with the new NPCs .
I can understand why some people feel there isnt enough difference between this and a modded BG to warrant purchasing it though (not myself personally). For those guys I say wait till release and then make your decision based on all the enhancements/changes.
Still puzzled as to why Lorfean seems so convinced that they cant add new areas to the game when it clearly states on the main website that theres new areas with the new NPCs .
I can understand why some people feel there isnt enough difference between this and a modded BG to warrant purchasing it though (not myself personally). For those guys I say wait till release and then make your decision based on all the enhancements/changes.
I think I simply misread their explanation on why Black Pits wasn't part of the main game, and combined that with all the talk about contractual restrictions. But I guess most of the latter is more speculation than fact.
Bottom line: I already decided I'll hold out for more details and proper, high-res screenshots that give a better idea of what this edition will really look like. Right now it's not the content that worries me most -- it's the graphics.
Comments
The thing that, in my opinion, kind of sealed this project's fate is that BioWare apparently lost the games' original art assets... Which is why they have to resort to filters and up-scaling to "enhance" the visuals and that's just not a great way of doing it.
First thing they clearly said that 'The Pits' is an addition to players who like tactical combat combat and demanded it, Also Its good enhancement to the Multi-player aspect, which was lacking.
Now think of it, 'The Pits' is a dungeon of 15 Levels! do you believe that you can implement a 15 level dungeon to the original game, without severely hurting the balance of the game?
'The Pits' is "adventure x" , there is supposed to be also "adventure y" who is bhaalspawn story related, though Trent Oster latley somewhat sarcasticly denied it.. time will tell
They are adding areas to the core game for the new NPCs, so that's clearly not the issue.
My guess is that the Black Pits are separate from the core game because it offers gameplay that is well suited for multiplayer games, so that players would be encouraged to use the new and improved multiplayer features.
I have personally never had an interest in playing BG as a multiplayer game, because it seems tedious to essentially have one player go through the story while others tag along for the battles, not to mention the hassle of organizing sessions to get through such a long game (I am sure others disagree completely with this, but I still get the impression that the vast majority see BG as a single player game only).
The Black Pits, on the other hand, seem like a good way to jump straight into some mid- to high-level action, where a multiplayer party can actually see some progression over a few hours of playing. I think the people who are (prematurely) disappointed with this content are too set on playing BG as single player only, the way it used to be.
I may be wrong, of course, but I see this as a good chance to get some friends together and experience the game in a new way.
Edit: @mch202 kinda beat me to it, huh? :P
Official fixes and patches make me more comfortable as well.
Other than that Lorfeans post is pretty accurate.
However they are meant to be doing stuff with multiplayer as well, but we havent heard much on this.
That is NOT true
- They add new areas that come along with the new NPCs and potentially "adventure y"
- No loading screens
- Enhanced Journal
- New GUI
- New encounters in the CORE GAME
- Adding new lines of text to the npcs ( although in a small scale )
we are one and a half months before the release, I believe they didnt expose all their cards
Edit:
I still cannot see a difference between free mods like BGT-WeiDU and this; except it runs on iOS and android.
Here is my take on the situation. They can add as much content as they like as long as it doesn't alter the original game content. For example, they can't add a new building to a pre-existing map or add new banter about a pre-existing area or NPC. They can add new locations and characters and they can add new banter for those locations and characters. Also new characters can comment on old locations.
I believe the problem is that more content will inbalance the game. If they add 60 hours of new quests you would either hit an XP cap before you even started those new quests or you would be way to powerful when you started BG2. The same goes for new items and spells. They would need to be very carefully balanced.
Personally, I feel that if they have the time and money to add any real meat to chew on it will be in TOB. Mainly because most characters couldn't hit the XP cap in that game to begin with and there are no other games after it that would be inbalanced. Since TOB was an expansion pack but stood as BG3 in terms of story, it would make sense that the bulk of new content would probably end up in TOB to make it more like BG3 instead of an expansion. Also, BG2EE is still a ways away and so it gives them the time they need with the money from the original BGEE to actually do something. I am sure that they are waiting to see how well BGEE does before they can even finalize the possabilites for the next EE title.
As for the graphics, I highly doubt that they will look worse than the original. We will have to wait and see but I have a feeling that those screenshots are not near the quality of what it actually looks like when it is being rendered in real time.
Merging the threads in a bit.
I don't think that Dorn comes with a new area. So its only the new areas for Rasaad and Neera.
You are talking about game speed... which is not exactly the same thing...
The thing that I'm actually most excited for (aside from the all new content)
is the lack of loading screens, I believe this will up the immersion factor greatly
Miliking the mod community??!!! ha.... a lot of the big modders are here and exchange information with the devs, mainly the devs give information regarding the SOURCE CODE to the modders that wasnt known to them before, so it will be easier to make mods in the future. the only mod from the community is the 1pp - with full permission and cooperation.
and some of the "developers of this so-called "Enhanced Edition" are the ones who developed the original Baldurs gate.
CHECK THE FACTS BEFORE YOU MAKE ACCUSATIONS!!!!
I think what they said was that each NPC adds 4 hours of gameplay, which probably includes their banters and not just the new areas.
But honestly, lets be reasonable here, I doubt that 2 new maps will add 8 hours of gameplay as you said. That's a truck load of wishful thinking. Developers are always overly optimistic about how much time content takes to be completed.
I don't think that the new areas will be as empty as the vanilla BG1 areas. They'll probably have more stuff to kill at least, but it'll never takes 4 hours to complete a map. I'd probably compare the new areas to bigger maps found in later IE games.
Its good to have expectations for the game, but lets keep them realistic.
when I say SOME OF i dont mean ALL OF, Its not Bioware that is making the enhanced edition - its beamdog, a groub of 10-18 people. and the fact that you created something for a company doesnt mean you can alter it afterwards, because its the company possession now. and the contractual limitation is due to the fact that Atari, Bioware and Wotc have rights on the game, and to each group has its own demands.
Oh, it wasn't meant as a criticism, I just think its better if we keep are expectations in check. Like I said, developers are often times overly optimistic with the length of their games.
(oh, and btw- if people in csi can discern the reflection of murderer in a small vase on a 600x400 image, then what's the upscaling problem here?!
I've spent plenty of time installing mods on top of my previous BG installs, and I'd happily pay $20 for EE even if all it did was to incorporate some of the must have bug fixes and interface ports in a simple package.
As it stands, the UI rewrite (enabling hardware acceleration and removing load screens) and cross platform support are IMO still the biggest selling points of this release. The game content is already phenomenal -- there's a reason why we still care after 14 years.
I can understand why some people feel there isnt enough difference between this and a modded BG to warrant purchasing it though (not myself personally). For those guys I say wait till release and then make your decision based on all the enhancements/changes.
Bottom line: I already decided I'll hold out for more details and proper, high-res screenshots that give a better idea of what this edition will really look like. Right now it's not the content that worries me most -- it's the graphics.