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Why purchase the BG: EE over the GOG version?

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  • RenshtalisRenshtalis Member Posts: 136
    theperm said:

    you must gather your party before venturing forth

    ROFL! There's 7 of us dude, party is too big! Unless our 6 month old is boo and my wife is minsc!

  • thepermtheperm Member Posts: 23
    You're right $20 for like 100+ hours of gameplay and sheer awesomeness is a terrible deal
  • LorfeanLorfean Member Posts: 43
    edited July 2012
    Great thread and IMO the OP definitely raises some valid questions. I am still very much on the fence about this Enhanced Edition myself, in large part because (from what I have seen so far) I am unsure if the final product will, in fact, "enhance" the game I know and love in a way that will be valuable to me.

    I bought the original Baldur's Gate back in 1998 and it pretty much re-defined my taste in games. It was a big deal to me. A VERY big deal. And as a result, all the other Infinity Engine games were instant purchases for me and when they came to GOG.com a few years ago I immediately bought them there as well. I have played the series many times throughout the years, both modded and vanilla, and feel that the games have aged very well indeed, largely thanks to the modding communities.

    But, I was definitely excited when the EE was announced. And when the countdown came along last week I was eager to find out more details... but it is those details that have caused my doubts. Of what was announced, I agree with Kraed that the new content very much feels like a glorified fan project. I have nothing against new NPC's and romances, but I have also never been interested in mods that provided them for the original BG and I don't see how these will be much different from those mods. The Black Pits sounds very interesting, but the fact that it is completely detached from the core game instead of an expansion of it like Durlag's Tower or Watcher's Keep makes it considerably less valuable to me. I'm just not too interested in a "mini Icewind Dale" bonus-level-type-deal that in no way adds to the main story arc or the overall exploration/dungeon crawling experience of the core game. I understand that this is due to contractual limitations but, to be blunt, that is simply not my problem -- it makes this feature feel very, very tacked on.

    So, what I'm left with then are the new interface and the engine improvements/optimizations -- which I initially assumed would be the real "meat" of this edition. So, the new interface definitely interests me. I don't feel the BG interface is "bad" per se, but it can definitely be improved in many areas and I am looking forward to seeing more of what they've done with it. No complaints there. The new cut scenes sound good as well, especially because they will (most likely) give the game a more timeless feel in that department, and they might even flesh out the story a bit more than the originals did. Definitely a good call. Now, after seeing the screenshots, it's the graphics engine stuff that really worries me... I understand that there wasn't much they could do in terms of "enhancement" because the original assets were lost, etc. etc. but what they've shown us so far looks very blurry and is in no way an improvement of the original game. Quite the opposite, in fact:


    BG EE:
    http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/screenshot01.jpg

    http://baldursgate.com/images/rasaad/screenshot02.jpg

    Modded BG:
    http://www.gamingforce.org/staff/Qwarky/BG1.png

    If that is what the EE will look like compared to the original, then I have no interest in playing it. Now I realize that that is a very harsh statement but, in my opinion, what is shown in those screenshots is in no way an enhancement or improvement over the original graphics. No way. And therefore it's not something I would consider worth my money.
  • thepermtheperm Member Posts: 23
    Boo always takes up a useful health potion quick slot though!!! LOL
  • IkonNavrosIkonNavros Member Posts: 227
    Lorfean said:

    Now, after seeing the screenshots, it's the graphics engine stuff that really worries me... I understand that there wasn't much they could do in terms of "enhancement" because the original assets were lost, etc. etc. but what they've shown us so far looks very blurry and is in no way an improvement of the original game.

    Well, lets hope this have been just work in progress graphics. It will for sure not be able to reach that level of crisp graphics.... not with the already mentioned limitations of enhancing the graphic, but it would alreaedy be nice if they would be able to use some kind of sharpening algorythm... stuff.. whatever :)

    Just dont let it look like that i the end. But as i said before, it would be no reason to say i do not buy it and play it anymore - but it would be for sure a bit of a bigger disappointing feeling.

    But well, never rate something before you have seen it in Action.

    Would be interesting to see a short gameplaying video with one of that Blurry scenes... or some png 1920x1080 pictures with real quality :D

  • RenshtalisRenshtalis Member Posts: 136
    Why is it that in this day and age people place so much make or break on graphical quality? I would much rather story line and immersion over flashy colors and sharp detai don't those things mean anything anymore?l... Then again I like the old school, I prefer the original starwars saga over the new CGI-fest we have these days.
  • IkonNavrosIkonNavros Member Posts: 227
    Well, i love the Graphic of Baldur's Gate 2 i have no problem with it, did love it always and still love it :)

    But there is a difference of good nice stable crisp 2d Art and blurry 2s background art.

    And seen from the importance of Storyline.. That is of course always Number 1 - Things stand or fall with a good story or if a good story is missing.
  • thepermtheperm Member Posts: 23
    I think just the fact that this is being done is insanely awesome. If you don't want to spend the money, stick with the originals. I am definitely onboard 100%. FYI there is a fan made redux of BG2 in process utilizing the Dragon Age engine which looks pretty quality. The first module of Irenicus's Dungeon has been completed and it's awesome. They update every Sunday.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I have to agree that I hope the final game doesn't look like it does in that screenshot. I don't really like the blurryness either.
  • IkonNavrosIkonNavros Member Posts: 227
    Nah.. Have seen some screens of that.. and i have to say, If i want the Baldur's Gate 2 feeling i would 1000 and 1 times play the original instead of playing that kind of mod for dragon age.

    And i have already preordered the EE :D I just hope as already said and as others already posted in various threads... that the new additions and the old ones do harmonize with each other without one being too blurry or too crisp.
  • LorfeanLorfean Member Posts: 43
    edited July 2012

    Why is it that in this day and age people place so much make or break on graphical quality? I would much rather story line and immersion over flashy colors and sharp detai don't those things mean anything anymore?l... Then again I like the old school, I prefer the original starwars saga over the new CGI-fest we have these days.

    Um, that is a very strange and rather backwards argument when we're talking about a game that is already 14 years old and sporting graphics that are considered "dated" by today's standards... and I just pointed out that I actually prefer those 14 year old graphics over what we've seen in the screenshots of the Enhanced Edition so far.

    Imagine if the Star Wars special edition of 1997 had actually made the image quality blurrier and out of focus compared to the originals -- that's what I'm talking about.
  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
    edited July 2012
    Lorfean said:

    I understand that there wasn't much they could do in terms of "enhancement" because the original assets were lost, etc. etc. but what they've shown us so far looks very blurry and is in no way an improvement of the original game. Quite the opposite, in fact:


    BG EE:
    http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/screenshot01.jpg

    http://baldursgate.com/images/rasaad/screenshot02.jpg

    Modded BG:
    http://www.gamingforce.org/staff/Qwarky/BG1.png

    If that is what the EE will look like compared to the original, then I have no interest in playing it.

    Keep in mind that the BGEE screenshot is pre-upscaled while your BG1 screenshot isn't, so the BG1 screenshot is lying about the crispness of the image when actually playing full-screen on a monitor, i.e. the upscale has to be performed at some point because your monitor's native res is certainly not 1024x768. There's always the widescreen mod but it is no replacement for proper scaling and zooming as BGEE will provide.

  • LorfeanLorfean Member Posts: 43
    theperm said:

    FYI there is a fan made redux of BG2 in process utilizing the Dragon Age engine which looks pretty quality. The first module of Irenicus's Dungeon has been completed and it's awesome. They update every Sunday.

    Well, see, I don't need anything like that because I love the original graphics of BG and BG2 -- they are perfect to me. My point is, why do something to them in the EE that makes them look worse?

  • thepermtheperm Member Posts: 23
    I guess whether or not they look better or worse remains to be seen... I don't think, however, they will look worse. That would be, just ducky.
  • LediathLediath Member Posts: 125
    I know this is absolutely impossible now, but my original wish when BGEE and BG2EE were first announced was that they would used the Temple of Elemental Evil engine to remake the BG series =P
  • NancyButtpeachNancyButtpeach Member Posts: 38
    Lediath, that would be excellent :-) That is the best tactical combat I've encountered in an RPG.
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited July 2012
    I have no idea what engine was TOEE based on but it looked very nice. I just remembered the exterior of the mouthouse, yeah brilliant!
  • LediathLediath Member Posts: 125

    Lediath, that would be excellent :-) That is the best tactical combat I've encountered in an RPG.

    alas ... it is but a dream for now ... *muses at nothing*

  • RenshtalisRenshtalis Member Posts: 136
    I
    Lorfean said:

    Why is it that in this day and age people place so much make or break on graphical quality? I would much rather story line and immersion over flashy colors and sharp detai don't those things mean anything anymore?l... Then again I like the old school, I prefer the original starwars saga over the new CGI-fest we have these days.

    Um, that is a very strange and rather backwards argument when we're talking about a game that is already 14 years old and sporting graphics that are considered "dated" by today's standards... and I just pointed out that I actually prefer those 14 year old graphics over what we've seen in the screenshots of the Enhanced Edition so far.

    Imagine if the Star Wars special edition of 1997 had actually made the image quality blurrier and out of focus compared to the originals -- that's what I'm talking about.
    It wasn't an argument dude, it was just a question. And I wasn't responding to your post, never even read it, I was just askin y ppl place more emphasis on graphics over story immersion. Sorry man, sheesh!

    * walks away too scared to post *
  • thepermtheperm Member Posts: 23
    yeah temple was great... although the storyline was lacking, (pretty much non-existant LOL) the graphics and gameplay (tactical combat wise) was spot on awesome!
  • LorfeanLorfean Member Posts: 43
    edited July 2012
    Zeckul said:

    Keep in mind that the BGEE screenshot is pre-upscaled while your BG1 screenshot isn't, so the BG1 screenshot is lying about the crispness of the image when actually playing full-screen on a monitor, i.e. the upscale has to be performed at some point because your monitor's native res is certainly not 1024x768. There's always the widescreen mod but it is no replacement for proper scaling and zooming as BGEE will provide.

    Well, that BG1 screenshot already uses the widescreen mod (and BGTutu) and I just chose a shot with that particular resolution because it's the same resolution that the BGEE screenshots are shown in. I wouldn't use 1024x768 with the widescreen mod myself, I would just set it to my monitor's native res, which would then result in the same crispness you see in my example (as seen in the screenshot below).

    See, my point is that if the scaling in BGEE looks like it does in the screenshots then I'd actually prefer the non-scaling widescreen mod method. Personally, I was never bothered by what is generally considered the biggest trade-off of the widescreen mod -- smaller character/creature sprites -- anyway, and other minor annoyances like non-scaled interface elements, fog of war, and smaller font sizes could easily be fixed through the work they are already doing on the interface.

    It might seem to some that I'm nitpicking, but I really think the quality of the scaling shown thus far impacts the game's visual quality and atmosphere in an extremely negative way and I don't really see how this scaling method would visually be superior to having crisp graphics, as seen in the screenshot below, with a brand new interface build around it -- which, as I said, is already a big part of the work they're doing on this edition anyway.

    image



  • XereckXereck Member Posts: 30
    I don't know much about the digital version from GoG, but isn't that more or less just a direct digital copy of the original game or did it have a lot of improvements, such as fixing bugs within the game?

    BG:EE is adding new content plus improving already existing content in general, like fixing bugs, dialogues not showing and the like. Sure, BG tutu does most of the job combined with various mods and addons....but I recall it to be such a hassle installing things in the right order and even the slightest mistake could mess up the install/game (anyone remember the green water issue?). With BG:EE we get a game where no extra things is needed and it can be played optimally even on a modern system. On top of that they have guaranteed that they will offer continued support, so patches and enhancements of other titles may come after this :)

    Personally I'd rather have one professional team handling the infinity engine titles I love, rather than 200 hobby modders (no offense to them, they have done a great job). It's just nice to have things gathered at one place :)
  • XezmeraudeXezmeraude Member Posts: 91
    Having this edition means no more onfliciting mods and we an finally say goodbye to most of the fan made mods and the Big Picture and Tutu Big World Setup etc from clashing with other issues. Least in this version. Most of the agreeable and working mods are automaticlaly installed. Id rather just one whole game than have a game with a clash of mods even properly installed still cause issues. Id rather no mod a game and play it straight than to make a conflicting game. Pretty much the $10 was stated why its worth it. New quests, chars, engine, environemntal graphics, kits etc. Its worth it. With constant work from them. We no longe need to rely on the fans work from pointless pocketplane group an seems some modders from Gibberlings3 are working with overhaul which I bet they got most of the fixpacks coding from. We really shouldnt be modding games to have a great playing experience anyways. Let it all be included in the game since some fan made mods codings are all done differently. Lets stop all the modding in general and let then feedback overhaul on what to fix instead. Everyone else is pretty much saying the same thing. Its worth the $10 in my opinion too. I can get rid of the older versions, maybe have overhaul recall the old school copies to recycle and make more copies of EE. I cant think up a bette way to say why EE is the way to go. If there are some who dont want it. All I say is you are missing out. Id rather buy an updated version than to live on an older non supportive to modern technology games to give up what EE is included and im sure Gibberlings3 modders (Pocketplane Group please disband, Some join Gibberlings3) an work with overhaul to make fan based content EE compatable and move on from the older versions of the game. Stick with the future and let the past die I say.
  • LorfeanLorfean Member Posts: 43
    edited August 2012
    Xereck said:

    I don't know much about the digital version from GoG, but isn't that more or less just a direct digital copy of the original game or did it have a lot of improvements, such as fixing bugs within the game?

    BG:EE is adding new content plus improving already existing content in general, like fixing bugs, dialogues not showing and the like. Sure, BG tutu does most of the job combined with various mods and addons....but I recall it to be such a hassle installing things in the right order and even the slightest mistake could mess up the install/game (anyone remember the green water issue?). With BG:EE we get a game where no extra things is needed and it can be played optimally even on a modern system. On top of that they have guaranteed that they will offer continued support, so patches and enhancements of other titles may come after this :)

    Personally I'd rather have one professional team handling the infinity engine titles I love, rather than 200 hobby modders (no offense to them, they have done a great job). It's just nice to have things gathered at one place :)

    And that's fair enough :-) There are probably a lot of people out there who feel the same way, and players who are new to the series might not even be aware of the extend to which the game can be modded, especially in regards to things like BGTutu, etc. So, yes, I can see how the EE can be a good thing for some, and particularly for new players, in that way.

    But I do feel I need to play devil's advocate when it comes to the final sentence of your post -- "continued support" sounds great but what does it really mean? Minor bug fixes? Compatibility with new Windows OS'es? GOG.com's version of the game is basically what people have been playing for the past 12-14 years and I've never heard anyone complain about it being too buggy or anything along those lines. It's perfectly stable and works great on modern Windows OS'es, and will continue to be supported by GOG.com to do so in years to come (unless EA decides to pull it from their site when BGEE is released). So what I think "continued support" means is basically the odd bug fix here and there and then DLC -- extra NPC's and standalone adventures along the lines of what we're already seeing in this edition... And given the limitations of their contract, how interesting could that really be? BG is already a HUGE game, with 25(!) recrutable NPC's and an excellent expansion in Tales of the Sword Coast that actually expands the core game (which is something Beamdog is, contractually, simply not allowed to do), so what would DLC really add to the game in terms of quality? Stuff like the DLC's BioWare released for Dragon Age and Mass Effect? Those were very much hit and miss and definitely over-priced. So what else can we really expect in terms of continued support? To me, that line is almost not feature list worthy.

    As for EE's of other titles... outside of BG2 they can't promise *anything* in that regard. I'm sure they would like to do PS:T, IWD and IWD2, but I'm not gonna hold my breath for that. And their statements about a BG3 really sound like nothing more than a fanboy's dream to me. Of course they would love to do a BG3 -- wouldn't we all?! But Black Isle's BG3 was canned NINE years ago and nothing has happened with the franchise since then. Why would a small company like Beamdog suddenly be given a high profile project like that? I just don't see that happen.

  • BandytoBandyto Member Posts: 6
    edited August 2012
    Greetings,

    I have been playing BGT-WeiDU plus some other enhancements (BGSpawn, Worldmap etc.) and would like to know what the differences between these two modifications are. All these free mods have been out there for years and now I have just heard about this attempt to bring back this beautiful game as a so-called "Enhanced Edition". Is there some kind of comparison chart? What about legal issues?

    Thanks in advance. :)

    Regards,
    Bandyto
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    Lorfean said:


    So what I think "continued support" means is basically the odd bug fix here and there and then DLC -- extra NPC's and standalone adventures along the lines of what we're already seeing in this edition... And given the limitations of their contract, how interesting could that really be? BG is already a HUGE game, with 25(!) recrutable NPC's and an excellent expansion in Tales of the Sword Coast that actually expands the core game (which is something Beamdog is, contractually, simply not allowed to do), so what would DLC really add to the game in terms of quality?

    @Lorfean
    I want to correct you on this one, They right now not allowed to alter original content, but they CAN add new areas or even expend the world map if they want ( Notice that there was no official word about the world map yet.. ) - so DLC not have to be a "stand-alone adventure".

    As for the "BG is already a HUGE game." - it might be a huge game for a new player, which is great, but for an experienced player you will always search for new experiences with the game - Thats the reason you use mods.


    I believe that the contractual limitation is due to the fact that BG1 is a Classic in every way you look at it, so I believe that the partys involved dont want to take the chance that Beamdog somehow will mess up the original - though I understand that in some level, I still think its too draconic. BUT since DLC is an optional feature, I think they will have less restrictions in altering original contract - Its optional after all.

    In the past I opened a thread asking to expand the Gnoll Stronghold, this is what Trent wrote:

    This is a great idea for a future adventure area. We have no current plans to play here, but it is something we could do down the road.

    -Trent

    From this reply you can conclude that they can alter/add new content to the Original BG1, but only as DLC, I might be wrong and its pure speculation, but that's how I understand it...
  • LorfeanLorfean Member Posts: 43
    You can find most of this stuff on the website and these forums, but here goes:

    - They are porting BG1 and TotSC to the latest version of the ToB engine, basically like BGTutu does today, but because they have access to the engine's source code they can do it more gracefully and balance the content accordingly where needed.

    - They are adding support for higher and widescreen resolutions, basically like the Widescreen Mod does today, but they are adding certain graphics filter for up-scaling on higher resolutions so characters and creatures don't end up being tiny.

    - They are incorporating the One Pixel Productions mod into this edition. Yes, that's the one we can already get (for free) today.

    - They are remaking the interface to support higher and widescreen resolutions, as well as changing a few other things about it, but we haven't really seen any details on that yet.

    - They are adding a few new recrutable NPC's and a standalone dungeon (as in: not accessible in the core game).

    - Contractually they are not allowed to change anything about the story or add any new areas to the core game. They also do not have access to any assets from Torment or the Icewind Dale series.

    I think that's pretty much it.
  • KnettgummiKnettgummi Member Posts: 152
    Lorfean said:

    See, my point is that if the scaling in BGEE looks like it does in the screenshots then I'd actually prefer the non-scaling widescreen mod method. Personally, I was never bothered by what is generally considered the biggest trade-off of the widescreen mod -- smaller character/creature sprites -- anyway, and other minor annoyances like non-scaled interface elements, fog of war, and smaller font sizes could easily be fixed through the work they are already doing on the interface.

    If the EE scaling does indeed look like it does in those screenshots, then I agree with this. Perhaps a "non-scaling" graphics option would be possible to implement?

    In any case, I'll reserve my judgment for when the game is actually out, as I believe it has been stated that the screenshots are of partially unfinished material. I doubt that the devs are somehow less picky and critical then us, with regards to how their own work is changing the graphics of the game.
  • LorfeanLorfean Member Posts: 43
    mch202 said:



    @Lorfean
    I want to correct you on this one, They right now not allowed to alter original content, but they CAN add new areas or even expend the world map if they want ( Notice that there was no official word about the world map yet.. ) - so DLC not have to be a "stand-alone adventure".

    As for the "BG is already a HUGE game." - it might be a huge game for a new player, which is great, but for an experienced player you will always search for new experiences with the game - Thats the reason you use mods.


    I believe that the contractual limitation is due to the fact that BG1 is a Classic in every way you look at it, so I believe that the partys involved dont want to take the chance that Beamdog somehow will mess up the original - though I understand that in some level, I still think its too draconic. BUT since DLC is an optional feature, I think they will have less restrictions in altering original contract - Its optional after all.

    Then why aren't they adding the Black Pits to the core game? The way I understand it, it's because they simply can't add new areas to the existing content -- I might be wrong about this being due to contractual limitations, and it might because of technical ones instead, but that is still a big roadblock right there -- also for future DLC.

    For me, a standalone dungeon that is not accessible in the main game, like Durlag's Tower or Watcher's Keep in BG2, but can only be played as a separate adventure, feels very detached and is simply not as valuable.

  • BandytoBandyto Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for this excellent answer. So, I do not need to buy it because all the things which you mentioned are already within BGT and other mods. E.g. "balance the content accordingly where needed" like BGSpawn and BGTTweak do it. :)
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