San Pantaleone or Pantalone was a popular saint in Venice, and he therefore gave his name to a character in the commedia dell'arte, Pantalone, a silly, wizened old man (Shakespeare's "lean and slippered Pantaloon") who was a caricature of Venetians. This character was portrayed as wearing trousers rather than knee breeches, and so became the origin of the name of a type of trouser called "pantaloons," which was later shortened to "pants."[12]
12. Harper, Douglas. "Pantaloon". Etymology Online. Retrieved 24 May 2015.
pantaloons (n.) Look up pantaloons at Dictionary.com 1660s, "kind of tights" (originally a French fashion and execrated as such by late 17c. English writers), associated with Pantaloun (1580s), silly old man character in Italian comedy who wore tight trousers over his skinny legs, from Italian Pantalone, originally San Pantaleone, Christian martyr, a popular saint in Venice (Pantaleone in the comedies represents the Venetian). The name is of Greek origin and means "all-compassionate" (or, according to Klein, "entirely lion"). Applied to tight long trousers (replacing knee-breeches) by 1798; pants is a shortened form first recorded 1840.
1580-90; < Middle French Pantalon < Upper Italian (Venetian) Pantalone nickname for a Venetian, variant of Pantaleone, name of a 4th-century saint once a favorite of the Venetians
A slight tangent from the pantalones definition and Gazebo chat (the latter of which keeps popping up and going straight over my head), pages 119 and prior have a lot of discussion regarding BG1 NPCs which never made it to BG2.
Considering that some of these NPCs may have their personalities expanded upon in SoD it would be nice to see them into BG2, is there any possibility of this happening in the distant future?
I am not referring to the stone-dead, bereft of life, shuffled off their mortal coils NPCs, but rather the ones we hear nothing from. Although it would be nice to see a way to add in an alternative outcome to some of the cameos I presume this isn't possible due to legal issues with changing original content? I would also like to see the Safana/Coran encounter in BG2 scrapped in exchange for something better especially if she is to feature in SoD
But the description, while mentioning Annie VanderMeer Mitsoda, Josh Sawyer, Mitch Gitelman, Swen Vincke, Jeff Kalles and Adam Heine among panelists, doesn't name Trent Oster.
So, will Beamdog be presented at PAX Prime? Should we expect an interview/a trailer/just a gossip maybe?
But the description, while mentioning Annie VanderMeer Mitsoda, Josh Sawyer, Mitch Gitelman, Swen Vincke, Jeff Kalles and Adam Heine among panelists, doesn't name Trent Oster.
So, will Beamdog be presented at PAX Prime? Should we expect an interview/a trailer/just a gossip maybe?
they really should give us something, it's unbelievable so many waiting for a just trailer for the game, and from this time on just silence, hey beamdog it's almost september now
Maybe, but not yesterday. However, Cam Tofer now has what is currently The Ultimate Piece of SoD Memorabilia - a massive 3x4 foot piece of Nat Jones artwork, printed by what I've just now decided to refer to as The Monster and signed by the entire in-office dev team.
I don't *think* Beamdog's going to have a big presence at PAX this year. I could be wrong. I haven't heard anything but I've had my nose to the grindstone and haven't been paying much attention to big picture stuff of late.
Maybe, but not yesterday. However, Cam Tofer now has what is currently The Ultimate Piece of SoD Memorabilia - a massive 3x4 foot piece of Nat Jones artwork, printed by what I've just now decided to refer to as The Monster and signed by the entire in-office dev team.
I don't *think* Beamdog's going to have a big presence at PAX this year. I could be wrong. I haven't heard anything but I've had my nose to the grindstone and haven't been paying much attention to big picture stuff of late.
@AndrewFoley Any chance you could post a picture of it?
@AndrewFoley Any chance you could post a picture of it?
Not if I want to keep my job, I'm afraid. It's potentially spoiler-y.
I am pretty sure we need a picture of that poster more than you need your job.
Come on, post it!
And on the talk of PAX, I would rather have them grinding out the game than schmoozing with the in crowd. I'd rather play he game sooner than watch another trailer for it.
@jobby I'd second having the Safana/Coran scene scrapped in BG2 - it's silly and completely out of character. They could develop these two NPCs in SoD and perhaps make them joinable in BG2 later on.
I really don't understand all the comments in this thread asking for character or plot changes to BG2. It doesn't make sense for three main reasons:
1. These are all requests that should really have been made back when BG2:EE was in development, not after it's been released. That's like asking a film company to change large portions of the plot of a film after it's been released - it's not an ever-evolving story.
2. Beamdog aren't allowed to alter the story/character content of the original games, that's why they only added to the games with the EE editions. They might even agree with some of the suggestions made, but WotC aren't likely to let them drastically alter a 15 year-old classic.
3. The whole purpose of Siege of Dragonspear is to EXPLAIN WHY the character interactions and story developments in BG2 are what they are, not change them. SoD is not intended to be laying the foundations for Beamdog to go back to BG2 and re-write half of it.
I see too many people on here looking at SoD as an opportunity to get things changed in BG2 - that's not what Beamdog have designed SoD to do for us. It's about giving us a more flowing, immersive experience across the whole BG/BG2/ToB saga whilst giving us more content, not changing what's already there.
If you're looking at SoD as an opportunity to change an existing game experience instead of expanding on it, then you're going to be disappointed.
1. These are all requests that should really have been made back when BG2:EE was in development, not after it's been released. That's like asking a film company to change large portions of the plot of a film after it's been released - it's not an ever-evolving story.
Just kidding. I actually agree with everything you said.
I really don't understand all the comments in this thread asking for character or plot changes to BG2. It doesn't make sense for three main reasons:
1. These are all requests that should really have been made back when BG2:EE was in development, not after it's been released. That's like asking a film company to change large portions of the plot of a film after it's been released - it's not an ever-evolving story.
2. Beamdog aren't allowed to alter the story/character content of the original games, that's why they only added to the games with the EE editions. They might even agree with some of the suggestions made, but WotC aren't likely to let them drastically alter a 15 year-old classic.
3. The whole purpose of Siege of Dragonspear is to EXPLAIN WHY the character interactions and story developments in BG2 are what they are, not change them. SoD is not intended to be laying the foundations for Beamdog to go back to BG2 and re-write half of it.
I see too many people on here looking at SoD as an opportunity to get things changed in BG2 - that's not what Beamdog have designed SoD to do for us. It's about giving us a more flowing, immersive experience across the whole BG/BG2/ToB saga whilst giving us more content, not changing what's already there.
If you're looking at SoD as an opportunity to change an existing game experience instead of expanding on it, then you're going to be disappointed.
Dragonsiege add NPCs to it's adventure. If Dragonsiege don't work only with BG:EE original NPCs then your argument is wrong about Dragonsiege being just an explanation.
Explanations don't add elements and Dragonsiege is adding some in the form of NPCs (or even more, what we will discover by playing the game).
It's not like at the end of Sarevok fight the party is imediatly ambushed by Irenicus's minions anymore, if a story has been developed then consequences of it are well expected to be reflected in the future, on BG2EE.
Isn't it all just semantics? I think the point is that the cameos and playability of bg1 npcs in bg2 are not going to be changed after SoD is released. I would be really surprised if they did change those things in bg2.
Isn't it all just semantics? I think the point is that the cameos and playability of bg1 npcs in bg2 are not going to be changed after SoD is released. I would be really surprised if they did change those things in bg2.
But Dragonsiege NPCs can be added to BG2EE, and that's the only point valid to argument. BG:EE core NPCs we know from a long time that wouldn't be changed.
I hardly see changes as surprise in BG2 from Dragonsiege history (Beamdog 100% copyright content).
Just to stop fallacy, Dragonsiege NPCs are NPCs presented on Darksiege campaign ONLY, not BG:EE NPCs that appear in Dragonsiege.
Since I've been away for a little bit I would first like to say thanks to ValamirCleaver for the interesting explanation of the origins of Pantalone. Had no idea!
As for the rest, personally I don't think it would be making any "major changes" to BGII to add some additional NPCs who could join the party, including some familiar faces from BGI (*cough* Xan, Branwen, Alora), or change a few of the old NPCs who have minor roles in BGII, such as Safana, Garrick, or Safana to make them joinable/give them meaningful plots/banter that they don't currently have. I don't see how this would effect either the plot or story central to BGII, which I think we can all agree is freakin awesome and not only can't but should not be changed.
As for starting locations of NPCs... I'm still on the fence. For now it's a mute point anyways as Beamdog has said they are not doing this. But if they were to, I think that it would be hard to justify losing key element to the story arches of Jaheira or Minsc. Their imprisonment with CHARNAME and what happens to their companion NPCs is central to the overall awesome plot and to the personalities/choices of those particular fantastic characters. With that said, it is still hard to understand why if you never chose to travel with those characters in BGI or more importantly, if you have an evil party, you have suddenly been captured with them... My hope is that Beamdog resolve this issue with some awesome story telling . I do also hope we get some explanation why other people that you may have traveled with decided to go do other things, i.e. Viconia, Edwin, Neera, Rasad, Dorn.
Finally, although I agree that I would rather have more time spent on game development than on Trailers (the one we have right now is awesome anyways) or teasers, and I feel like there has been enough content released thus far to tease us about the game, it would be nice to have some info on where the game's release date/work on the game stands, at PAX or otherwise. I for one would love to hear "we have approximately x amount of the game debugged/finished and we are hoping to be able to announce a release date in the next month..." I'm not quite sure what the word "soon" means to Beamdog, as it is currently written on the game's home page, but for now it seems like months!!!
Isn't it all just semantics? I think the point is that the cameos and playability of bg1 npcs in bg2 are not going to be changed after SoD is released. I would be really surprised if they did change those things in bg2.
I think most people realise that Beamdog aren't allowed to change established parts of BG2, however unsatisfactory they may be.
What they can do in SoD is EXPLAIN apparent personality changes from BG1 to BG2.
Finally, although I agree that I would rather have more time spent on game development than on Trailers (the one we have right now is awesome anyways) or teasers
Development and trailers are being done by different team members.
Comments
I've found a place where anyone can re-watch it again (for example, to re-hear all the new sound lines)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zdbqm
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zdf1n_siege-of-dragonspear-demo-part-2_videogames
https://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#el/en/Άγιος Παντελεήμονας
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pantaleon#Italy
San Pantaleone or Pantalone was a popular saint in Venice, and he therefore gave his name to a character in the commedia dell'arte, Pantalone, a silly, wizened old man (Shakespeare's "lean and slippered Pantaloon") who was a caricature of Venetians. This character was portrayed as wearing trousers rather than knee breeches, and so became the origin of the name of a type of trouser called "pantaloons," which was later shortened to "pants."[12]
12. Harper, Douglas. "Pantaloon". Etymology Online. Retrieved 24 May 2015.
http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=pantaloons&allowed_in_frame=0
pantaloons (n.) Look up pantaloons at Dictionary.com
1660s, "kind of tights" (originally a French fashion and execrated as such by late 17c. English writers), associated with Pantaloun (1580s), silly old man character in Italian comedy who wore tight trousers over his skinny legs, from Italian Pantalone, originally San Pantaleone, Christian martyr, a popular saint in Venice (Pantaleone in the comedies represents the Venetian). The name is of Greek origin and means "all-compassionate" (or, according to Klein, "entirely lion"). Applied to tight long trousers (replacing knee-breeches) by 1798; pants is a shortened form first recorded 1840.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pantaloons
1580-90; < Middle French Pantalon < Upper Italian (Venetian) Pantalone nickname for a Venetian, variant of Pantaleone, name of a 4th-century saint once a favorite of the Venetians
Considering that some of these NPCs may have their personalities expanded upon in SoD it would be nice to see them into BG2, is there any possibility of this happening in the distant future?
I am not referring to the stone-dead, bereft of life, shuffled off their mortal coils NPCs, but rather the ones we hear nothing from.
Although it would be nice to see a way to add in an alternative outcome to some of the cameos I presume this isn't possible due to legal issues with changing original content?
I would also like to see the Safana/Coran encounter in BG2 scrapped in exchange for something better especially if she is to feature in SoD
http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/classic-rpgs-forever
But the description, while mentioning Annie VanderMeer Mitsoda, Josh Sawyer, Mitch Gitelman, Swen Vincke, Jeff Kalles and Adam Heine among panelists, doesn't name Trent Oster.
So, will Beamdog be presented at PAX Prime? Should we expect an interview/a trailer/just a gossip maybe?
they really should give us something, it's unbelievable so many waiting for a just trailer for the game, and from this time on just silence, hey beamdog it's almost september now
Printing huge banners for PAX maybe?
I don't *think* Beamdog's going to have a big presence at PAX this year. I could be wrong. I haven't heard anything but I've had my nose to the grindstone and haven't been paying much attention to big picture stuff of late.
Come on, post it!
And on the talk of PAX, I would rather have them grinding out the game than schmoozing with the in crowd. I'd rather play he game sooner than watch another trailer for it.
lol
1. These are all requests that should really have been made back when BG2:EE was in development, not after it's been released. That's like asking a film company to change large portions of the plot of a film after it's been released - it's not an ever-evolving story.
2. Beamdog aren't allowed to alter the story/character content of the original games, that's why they only added to the games with the EE editions. They might even agree with some of the suggestions made, but WotC aren't likely to let them drastically alter a 15 year-old classic.
3. The whole purpose of Siege of Dragonspear is to EXPLAIN WHY the character interactions and story developments in BG2 are what they are, not change them. SoD is not intended to be laying the foundations for Beamdog to go back to BG2 and re-write half of it.
I see too many people on here looking at SoD as an opportunity to get things changed in BG2 - that's not what Beamdog have designed SoD to do for us. It's about giving us a more flowing, immersive experience across the whole BG/BG2/ToB saga whilst giving us more content, not changing what's already there.
If you're looking at SoD as an opportunity to change an existing game experience instead of expanding on it, then you're going to be disappointed.
Just kidding. I actually agree with everything you said.
Explanations don't add elements and Dragonsiege is adding some in the form of NPCs (or even more, what we will discover by playing the game).
It's not like at the end of Sarevok fight the party is imediatly ambushed by Irenicus's minions anymore, if a story has been developed then consequences of it are well expected to be reflected in the future, on BG2EE.
I would be really surprised if they did change those things in bg2.
I hardly see changes as surprise in BG2 from Dragonsiege history (Beamdog 100% copyright content).
Just to stop fallacy, Dragonsiege NPCs are NPCs presented on Darksiege campaign ONLY, not BG:EE NPCs that appear in Dragonsiege.
As for the rest, personally I don't think it would be making any "major changes" to BGII to add some additional NPCs who could join the party, including some familiar faces from BGI (*cough* Xan, Branwen, Alora), or change a few of the old NPCs who have minor roles in BGII, such as Safana, Garrick, or Safana to make them joinable/give them meaningful plots/banter that they don't currently have. I don't see how this would effect either the plot or story central to BGII, which I think we can all agree is freakin awesome and not only can't but should not be changed.
As for starting locations of NPCs... I'm still on the fence. For now it's a mute point anyways as Beamdog has said they are not doing this. But if they were to, I think that it would be hard to justify losing key element to the story arches of Jaheira or Minsc. Their imprisonment with CHARNAME and what happens to their companion NPCs is central to the overall awesome plot and to the personalities/choices of those particular fantastic characters. With that said, it is still hard to understand why if you never chose to travel with those characters in BGI or more importantly, if you have an evil party, you have suddenly been captured with them... My hope is that Beamdog resolve this issue with some awesome story telling
Finally, although I agree that I would rather have more time spent on game development than on Trailers (the one we have right now is awesome anyways) or teasers, and I feel like there has been enough content released thus far to tease us about the game, it would be nice to have some info on where the game's release date/work on the game stands, at PAX or otherwise. I for one would love to hear "we have approximately x amount of the game debugged/finished and we are hoping to be able to announce a release date in the next month..." I'm not quite sure what the word "soon" means to Beamdog, as it is currently written on the game's home page, but for now it seems like months!!!
What they can do in SoD is EXPLAIN apparent personality changes from BG1 to BG2.