but on the other hand, enemies that might have been equipped with weapons they weren't proficient in will now be taking penalties for not being proficient, so those enemies will be less formidable. Definitely equip yourself for the challenge, but if you didn't have trouble in vanilla you won't have any trouble now either.
Why would anyone want to wield a sword they wouldn't be proficient in? I'd rather just give them the required proficiency points, or switch their weapons away to something they do know how to use.
Can I get some clarification on the intended behavior of this particular "fix"...
"Non-party characters now receive proper bonuses and penalties for their weapon proficiencies (or lack thereof)"
When I tried to fight the party of six mercenaries that you encounter in the Undercity, I couldn't help but notice some devastating damage coming from the two archers (Carston and Rahvin). When I Ctrl-Q them into my party, I noticed they both had ridiculous weapon proficiencies for level 9 fighters, like 3 points in Spears and 5 points in Bows and 3 points in something else. They didn't have those proficiencies before. Actually, they didn't have any, so their damage was mediocre.
Are there more NPCs with such restored proficiencies? Are we going to get hit harder overall throughout the game? Is the difficulty increase associated with those proficiencies intended? Those two archers I mentioned above hit for 10-15 damage at 3 and a half attacks per round due to their newfound proficiencies. A massive increase in power compared to previous versions of the game. Not to mention the number of pips they have do not even make sense for their class and level.
As Dee explained and as I understand it it has to do with this
Its fixing a bug in the EE. So these are actually fixes and not "fixes" (since apparently there is a difference).
Also if you spark up Near Infinity and check out Carston in TOTSC you'll note that he has ** in small sword proficiency, ***** in bow proficiency, and *** in spear proficiency. This is not new and there are plenty of other examples in the original games where characters received benefits that they shouldn't given their level (mages for instance like Venkt being able to cast four level 2 spells when he should only be able to cast three).
Similarly in TOTSC Rahvin has ***** in bows and *** in spears even though he is level 9.
Delgod has ***** in bows and ** in blunt even though he is only level 6. Alexander has ***** in bows and *** in spears even though he is level 6.
Zal has ***** in missile and *** in spears even though he is a level 6 fighter.
Bassilus always had 3 points towards blunt weapons. Considering he is a level 7 cleric that only casts a handful of spells against you (and only has a single casting of rigid thinking and no 4th level spells memorized) I'd consider yourself lucky however.
Why would anyone want to wield a sword they wouldn't be proficient in? I'd rather just give them the required proficiency points, or switch their weapons away to something they do know how to use.
I can think of plenty of plausible reasons. The character got into a fight unexpectedly and grabbed whatever was nearest to him; his primary weapon broke; his weapon is ineffective against his opponent, or he's out of range for his particular proficiency.
Question about the beta: if they are only testing now, are all the fixes in the beta yet? (I assume they aren't, and it's a slight older version of the patch.)
Question about the beta: if they are only testing now, are all the fixes in the beta yet? (I assume they aren't, and it's a slight older version of the patch.)
They are. The only thing that makes the difference between the beta 1.3 and the release 1.3 it's that the release will have the Quick Loot button (which the beta is lacking right now, but it's just a detail).
I'd rather not worry about the Beta, and wait for the actual patch. Although I might see If I can volunteer for Beta Testing when the 1.4 comes around. Mainly so that I can have the Beta Tester Badge in my arsenal of Badges. Yes, exploiting reason itself just to get a badge. Is that Lawful Evil of me, or Chaotic Neutral of me. YOU DECIDE!
Mainly so that I can have the Beta Tester Badge in my arsenal of Badges.
That normally only comes for people who were private beta testers (there are a few exceptions but not many). Generally people who signed an NDA (and who have access to the internal tracker).
Mainly so that I can have the Beta Tester Badge in my arsenal of Badges.
That normally only comes for people who were private beta testers (there are a few exceptions but not many). Generally people who signed an NDA (and who have access to the internal tracker).
It sounds like some clarification is needed, so...
No proficiencies were changed on any creatures in either game; what happened was, when we put the game into the BGII engine, at some point the proficiency types of "Large Swords", "Small Swords", "Blunt Weapons", etc. stopped being recognized--so for instance, the fellow who was grand mastered in darts wasn't getting the benefits of his five pips the way he was supposed to. This patch restores the engine's recognition of those proficiencies so that they function the way they did in the original game.
So, yes, it makes things more difficult in BG:EE than when it was first released; it doesn't change the difficulty from vanilla, though (and in fact, with the addition of kits and added weapon styles, BG:EE is still a bit easier than vanilla in that regard).
Interesting, I thought my playthrough was easier then expected/compared to when I played the vanilla game several years ago but couldn't quite figure out why.
If that statement was even remotely true, they'd be up to 1.5 for both games and have three DLCs out by now.
You... do know that they're a comparatively small team and that bugquashing isn't the fastest thing in the world to do even at the best of times, right?
that is true. but still, LGM, the makers of Starpoint Gemini 2, are also a small team, and they are releasing many patches\hotfixes. I haven't seen a major patch for the EE and the EE of BGII in quite some time.
"In remembrance of all the fans who died waiting for patch 1.3".
Maybe it's a bit inappropriate of me to think such things, but I wonder how many of us actually did die in the past eight months. Odds are actually disturbingly good, considering how many we are.
Maybe it's a bit inappropriate of me to think such things, but I wonder how many of us actually did die in the past eight months. Odds are actually disturbingly good, considering how many we are.
The root of the problem, as I understand it, is that vanilla BG1 and BG2 used different weapon proficiency systems. While in BG1 different but similar weapon types were grouped into a single proficiency line (e.g. warhammers, maces, flails, and morningstars all belonged under blunt weapons), BG2 weapon types each had their own proficiency lines (with just a couple of exceptions like morning stars being grouped together with flails).
When BG1 content was ported to the BG2 engine in BG:EE (and previously also in BGT and Tutu), NPCs in the game still retained their proficiency points in the old BG1 weapon proficiency system and had no points in the new BG2 one. So as far as the BG2 engine was concerned, they were not proficient with any weapon in the game, hence their attacks suffered.
With this new fix, if I correctly understood what it does, even the old BG1 proficiency lines will count as if the NPC was proficient in the respective weapons.
I apologize if this is obvious stuff, but it took my own defective brain a while to grasp this concept.
The bug I'm referring to is the one Dee pointed. The fact that people in bg2 do not get the right bonus even if they got proficiency points.
@Sergio, AFAIK that bug should only affect the Enhanced Edition, as both the original BG1and BG2 engines can handle without problems the old proficiency system.
I'm pretty sure that's why Sarevok is hitting like a wet noodle in the EE compared to the Vanilla game, if he is missing his GrandMastery, he is actually missing 5 damage. Which could be why I remember him hitting for something like 20 in vanilla compare to about 15 now.
Comments
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/447374/#Comment_447374
Its fixing a bug in the EE. So these are actually fixes and not "fixes" (since apparently there is a difference).
Also if you spark up Near Infinity and check out Carston in TOTSC you'll note that he has ** in small sword proficiency, ***** in bow proficiency, and *** in spear proficiency. This is not new and there are plenty of other examples in the original games where characters received benefits that they shouldn't given their level (mages for instance like Venkt being able to cast four level 2 spells when he should only be able to cast three).
Similarly in TOTSC Rahvin has ***** in bows and *** in spears even though he is level 9.
Delgod has ***** in bows and ** in blunt even though he is only level 6. Alexander has ***** in bows and *** in spears even though he is level 6.
Zal has ***** in missile and *** in spears even though he is a level 6 fighter.
Bassilus always had 3 points towards blunt weapons. Considering he is a level 7 cleric that only casts a handful of spells against you (and only has a single casting of rigid thinking and no 4th level spells memorized) I'd consider yourself lucky however.
Yes, exploiting reason itself just to get a badge.
Is that Lawful Evil of me, or Chaotic Neutral of me. YOU DECIDE!
Depending on which bug it is, I might be able to answer that question
"In remembrance of all the fans who died waiting for patch 1.3".
It is really IS Scary.
But don't worry, nothing can kill you. YOU'RE INVISIBLE!
When BG1 content was ported to the BG2 engine in BG:EE (and previously also in BGT and Tutu), NPCs in the game still retained their proficiency points in the old BG1 weapon proficiency system and had no points in the new BG2 one. So as far as the BG2 engine was concerned, they were not proficient with any weapon in the game, hence their attacks suffered.
With this new fix, if I correctly understood what it does, even the old BG1 proficiency lines will count as if the NPC was proficient in the respective weapons.
I apologize if this is obvious stuff, but it took my own defective brain a while to grasp this concept.
I only played Vanilla BG1 once
Maybe even today.
But I don't want to jinx it.
*Anduin starts strange anti-jinx summon patch cantrip only mages with access to golden pantlette computers can cast*