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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,440

    As I said, he did say he didnt have doubt a Russian influence campaign was attempted. But there remains absolutely zero ties to it and Trump nor does he believe it changed votes.

    I may be wrong, but my interpretation of his statement that the Russian interference had not altered votes is that he was saying their attempted hacks of the vote counting technology had not altered votes submitted via machines. I doubt that he was intending to say that the campaign of leaked emails etc had not affected any voting intentions.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    Yeah, basically. What the rest of the "influence campaign" amounts to are the Podesta emails leaked by Seth Rich and RT.

    And lets face it, the content of the Podesta emails probably had a sizable effect but this is on the democrats and the DNC for their appalling and undemocratic behavior, not anything to do with anyone else.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Yeah, basically. What the rest of the "influence campaign" amounts to are the Podesta emails leaked by Seth Rich and RT.

    And lets face it, the content of the Podesta emails probably had a sizable effect but this is on the democrats and the DNC for their appalling and undemocratic behavior, not anything to do with anyone else.

    Good god, Seth Rich wasn't the leaker, nor was he killed because of it. But hey, what do his own parents and the DC police who investigated the murder know?? The "Clintons are murderers" isn't a new album, it's just a remaster with bonus tracks. Vince Foster was killed for knowing about Hillary's lesbian lover. Bill had two teenagers killed and their bodies dumped on the train tracks in Arkansas to cover up a cocaine smuggling ring being run out of the Mena airport. This shit was all over right-wing media in the 90s. This time around, we have a pedophile ring being run out of the basement of a DC pizza parlor (that, it turns out, has no basement) and the supposed murder of a DNC staffer. Straight from the fever swamps of Infowars and Sean Hannity's ass.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    Woah, what? I never said anything about anyone being killed. Him being the leaker is based on Julian Assange's own statements and wikileaks statements. Two totally seperate issues. And Pizzagate? Totally strawmanning at this point.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Woah, what? I never said anything about anyone being killed. Him being the leaker is based on Julian Assange's own statements and wikileaks statements. Two totally seperate issues. And Pizzagate? Totally strawmanning at this point.

    When Julian Assange gets his cowardly ass out of the Ecuadorian embassy like he said he would when Chelsea Manning had her sentence commuted, then I'll contemplate believing a word he says.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,440
    Exit poll for UK elections is suggesting a hung parliament - so Theresa May's desire for 'strong and stable' leadership looks like being disappointed.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) asked Director Comey whether or not Vice President Mike Pence – the leader of the transition team – was aware of the concerns that Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn had improper communications and connections to the Russians during the transition following the election.

    Comey announced that it was his understanding that Vice-President Pence was aware of those concerns.

    This means that Mike Pence was aware not only of Mike Flynn’s work in service of the government of Turkey, which he had been alerted to in November by Rep. Elijah Cummings, but was also aware that he had disturbing connections to agents of the Russian Federation – and allowed him to become National Security Advisor anyway.

    So why was the pretext later given that Flynn lied to Pence as being the reason Flynn was fired? Pence clearly knew and was cool with Flynn being compromised by not one but two foreign governments and gaining access to our nation’s most classified information?
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    Grond0 said:

    Exit poll for UK elections is suggesting a hung parliament - so Theresa May's desire for 'strong and stable' leadership looks like being disappointed.

    It's the hope that kills you :). A long wait ahead.

    The TV networks will surely be in favour of Trump sticking around at any rate, great for ratings.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017
    People seem to be forgetting (or just not knowing) that Nixon was never under investigation or personally implicated til near the end. It started with G. Gordon Liddy and the robbers. Eventually it was Colson, Ehrlichman, Haldeman, and Dean, then Nixon himself.

    Jared Kushner is the President's son-in-law. Michael Flynn was with him day and night on the campaign trail. Jeff Sessions was the first major political figure in the Republican Party to back him. There is now reporting tonight that Comey revealed in his closed session that there was a THIRD undisclosed meeting Sessions had with the Russians. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that nothing nefarious was going on. How does anyone explain why all 3 of these people, essentially as close to the President as you can get inside the Administration, have lied, over and over and over again, about their contacts with Russian officials?? How did all 3 of them manage to come down with a massive case of amnesia about meetings with the exact same person?? No one has a decent explanation for this.

    Boy, whatever happens in the UK, Theresa May SERIOUSLY overplayed her hand. The combo of austerity politics and the recent terror attacks happening under her watch seem to have really shifted ALOT of votes. She was expecting a massive majority in Parliament. Not going to happen, and seems to be getting worse for the Tories by the hour. And the fact is, Europe, after the shocks of Brexit and Trump, are looking at what has happened and saying "f**k that noise."

    Watching French News during Macron/LePen and now the BBC tonight just tells me I actually enjoy election nights more than nearly any sporting event, and I love sports. I'm not 100% sure exactly what I'm watching, but I'm catching on quick and this is quite engrossing.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    Theresa May did indeed overplay her hand, very foolishly. She risked Brexit over fox hunting, of all things, which is a totally awful practice.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017

    Theresa May did indeed overplay her hand, very foolishly. She risked Brexit over fox hunting, of all things, which is a totally awful practice.

    From what I'm gathering the last hour, Brexit is essentially, at the very least, on hold, Theresa May is fatally damaged, and it's not out of the question that Corbyn could actually put together a coalition to become PM, which was absolutely unthinkable less than 3 weeks ago.

    The BBC hosts are fantastic, this is entertainment gold.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,440
    edited June 2017
    Mantis37 said:

    It's the hope that kills you :). A long wait ahead.

    Things are looking very tight - still possible that she could get a majority, but certainly not a large one. Recent terrorist events didn't help her, but I agree with @WarChiefZeke that she overplayed her hand. She'd had a very easy ride in her administration and seemed to have convinced herself that was down to her own particular virtues that everyone recognised. In particular she seemed to assume that everyone agreed with her position that the British public desired a 'hard' Brexit - slightly odd given that there was only a small majority for leaving Europe at all and it would be reasonable to expect that some of those who wanted to leave would still want to keep some links with Europe, e.g. over trade, security, human rights.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017
    It's hard to overstate just how badly Theresa May miscalculated here. She broke a explicit promise to NOT hold early elections, because saw a chance to gain a clear, massive majority. It was a totally cynical move, and yet she somehow managed to blow a bulletproof lead within the last 20 days.

    Much like the US, the when the youth vote turns out, the liberal party has massive success. When they don't, they have to scratch and claw.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    Every time I heard her talk power politics or negotiation strategy I thought she was very intelligent. She had clear ends in her deal and a method to those ends. Apparently understanding people isn't one of her strong points.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    I'll go out on a limb and suggest her warm welcome and cozy relationship with President Trump didn't help her here in the election.

    Especially since he repeatedly just bashed the Mayor of London just after a terror attack occurred there in London. That had to have been a slap in the face that was felt by voters. It took her a few days I believe to condemn his attacks on the terror affected city.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    Sadiq Khan's comments on terrorism are odious and wrong and deserve to be criticized. Terrorism isn't a fact of life that you just have to deal with. Poland isn't having it. Tokyo isn't having it. Terrorism is preventable, not inevitable. Just deal with it is a slap in the face of an idea, to me.

    Then calling moderate muslims Uncle Toms. Just disgusting.

    Being on the left gives you all sorts of privileges to be a bigot apparently. Nobody on the right would survive saying such a thing.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    Anti Trumper White House leaker named Reality Winner (no joke) wanted to burn the White House down and join The Taliban.

    Seems like a realistic plan.

    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/prosecutors-alleged-nsa-leaker-wanted-to-burn-the-white-house-down/531327849
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017

    Anti Trumper White House leaker named Reality Winner (no joke) wanted to burn the White House down and join The Taliban.

    Seems like a realistic plan.

    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/prosecutors-alleged-nsa-leaker-wanted-to-burn-the-white-house-down/531327849

    Your boy Julian Assange supports her 100%. Edward Snowden is also sending his well-wishes from Moscow. Unlike these two cowards, at least Chelsea Manning and this girl stuck around to face the music instead of hiding in embassies.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2017
    I wonder who has leaked more classified material, Trump or Winner? Trump has more incidents of leaking intel including intel of a higher classification than the Top Secret that Winner leaked.

    In fairness to Trump, his leaks appear to be just screw ups not intentional.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    Trump can declassify anything if I recall correctly, so he can not "leak" anything by definition.

    Whether you like Julian Assange or hate him, his information is accurate and informative, changes the whole perspective of the political landscape, and there's little doubt historians will see his organization as one of the greatest blessings of the modern era.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    One problem is that May already triggered the start of the Brexit negotiation period before calling this election- an incredibly hubristic move. So while a soft Brexit now looks much more likely so does a second election as the Conservatives are most likely to form a minority government. Stunning stuff as the youth vote really comes out though, a whole generation now seems into politics again after these last few dramatic years.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2017

    Trump can declassify anything if I recall correctly, so he can not "leak" anything by definition.

    Whether you like Julian Assange or hate him, his information is accurate and informative, changes the whole perspective of the political landscape, and there's little doubt historians will see his organization as one of the greatest blessings of the modern era.

    He can declassify things but one would expect him to know and say "I've decided to declassify this thing I'm about to tell you" instead of just blurting it out then trying to backtrack later.

    Edit: and apparently the things he leaked are still classified so he didn't declassify them he just screwed up.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    edited June 2017

    Sadiq Khan's comments on terrorism are odious and wrong and deserve to be criticized. Terrorism isn't a fact of life that you just have to deal with. Poland isn't having it. Tokyo isn't having it. Terrorism is preventable, not inevitable. Just deal with it is a slap in the face of an idea, to me.

    Then calling moderate muslims Uncle Toms. Just disgusting.

    Being on the left gives you all sorts of privileges to be a bigot apparently. Nobody on the right would survive saying such a thing.

    Your chronology is a bit off here, he made the Uncle Tom remark in 2009 (and later apologised for what it's worth).

    Khan referred to the need for preparedness against terrorism last year I think, while discussing measures that could be taken against terrorism and how metropolises could exchange ideas. The remarks you cite may have been taken out of context.

    Khan has probably never been as popular in London as he was after Trump's tweets. That state visit to the UK Trump had been planning will be immense fun to watch if it actually comes off. And he might even succeed in driving the UK back into the arms of the EU with a few more interventions.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,440
    Now confirmed that UK will definitely have a hung parliament. The DUP (Northern Irish unionist party) will almost certainly hold the balance of power and thus has the opportunity to significantly influence the Brexit process.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Finally watched the bizarro McCain questioning that he had apologized about saying he had stayed up and watched a diamondbacks game that ended at 1am EST (because that's totally more important right than doing his job at the hearing with Comey right?)

    Anyway.. So it was odd. It was like:
    Comey: The Clinton Email investigation was over in July.
    McCain: There's a double standard because Trump's still being investigated but you said the Clinton investigation is over and President Comey is still being investigated.

    So he is either lying or he doesn't know they were two different thing? The Russian hacking / Russian collusion investigation is still on going. And because multiple people from Trump's campaign were seemingly involved they are the target of the investigation. Was Clinton supposed to be investigated for getting hacked and damaging her own campaign?

    I had a lot of respect for McCain before that. That dropped him a few notches.
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    Grond0 said:

    Now confirmed that UK will definitely have a hung parliament. The DUP (Northern Irish unionist party) will almost certainly hold the balance of power and thus has the opportunity to significantly influence the Brexit process.

    Hahaha... Ha... Ha... Haaaaaaaaa... *facepalm*

    Well... Can we blame Russian interference? Can we? Can we? Yes? No? Please? Can we blame America?

    ...

    Oh wait... I still have free will...

    I think Theresa just learnt what happens if your manifesto takes food away from children, takes money off pensioners, sacks teachers and nurses... Wasn't really surprised...
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    Finally watched the bizarro McCain questioning that he had apologized about saying he had stayed up and watched a diamondbacks game that ended at 1am EST (because that's totally more important right than doing his job at the hearing with Comey right?)

    Anyway.. So it was odd. It was like:
    Comey: The Clinton Email investigation was over in July.
    McCain: There's a double standard because Trump's still being investigated but you said the Clinton investigation is over and President Comey is still being investigated.

    So he is either lying or he doesn't know they were two different thing? The Russian hacking / Russian collusion investigation is still on going. And because multiple people from Trump's campaign were seemingly involved they are the target of the investigation. Was Clinton supposed to be investigated for getting hacked and damaging her own campaign?

    I had a lot of respect for McCain before that. That dropped him a few notches.

    This is what I think:

    He was the last republican to speak, so the party went to him and asked him to change the narrative to Clinton so that right leaning media can just focus on his questions (and the last thing any viewers would remember of a 2 hour snore fest) and just talk about Clinton rather than anything else.

    McCain, who's had issues with how the Trump administration has been dealing with things (and being vocal about it) didn't want to play ball fully, so he played a senile act to keep the narrative on Trump's dealing with Comey and not Clinton. He can go to the party and say he tried, but failed.

    He's 80 years old. He's been a senator since the 80s. He has already built up his reputation and him "screwing up" on this hearing would do nothing except give some late night talk show hosts some fodder for a day or two. He, personally, had nothing to lose by screwing this up.

    but I could be completely wrong. Just speculation.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017


    This is ridiculous. Comey didn't "leak" anything. These were his memos. Trump fired him and then talked about the situation publicly. Comey is now a private citizen. Trump never claimed Executive Privilege, nor would he have any legal standing to do so. Trump, once again, relies on nothing so much as the complete ignorance of his supporters. There is no possible way to spin this as a leak.



    As for the lying part, Comey was under oath. If Trump had the balls to do so, he'd be sworn in on this matter and take questions. But then, of course, he'd perjure himself within 30 seconds. Same reason he never sued his sexual assault accusers like he promised to as well. Doing so would have opened himself up to a deposition. Trump is a coward and a fraud, always was, always will be.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Anduin said:

    Grond0 said:

    Now confirmed that UK will definitely have a hung parliament. The DUP (Northern Irish unionist party) will almost certainly hold the balance of power and thus has the opportunity to significantly influence the Brexit process.

    Hahaha... Ha... Ha... Haaaaaaaaa... *facepalm*

    Well... Can we blame Russian interference? Can we? Can we? Yes? No? Please? Can we blame America?

    ...

    Oh wait... I still have free will...

    I think Theresa just learnt what happens if your manifesto takes food away from children, takes money off pensioners, sacks teachers and nurses... Wasn't really surprised...
    Indeed.

    You can't go wrong appealing to the greedy and promising them other people's money.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Can any British posters provide a short, concise explanation as to why Sinn Fein abstains from Parliament?? I know historically they have been viewed as the political arm of the IRA, but what is the current situation and reason for this??
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