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  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768

    Can any British posters provide a short, concise explanation as to why Sinn Fein abstains from Parliament?? I know historically they have been viewed as the political arm of the IRA, but what is the current situation and reason for this??

    Taking a seat in Parliament requires an oath of loyalty to the monarch. Sinn Fein refuses to take the oath.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    BillyYank said:

    Can any British posters provide a short, concise explanation as to why Sinn Fein abstains from Parliament?? I know historically they have been viewed as the political arm of the IRA, but what is the current situation and reason for this??

    Taking a seat in Parliament requires an oath of loyalty to the monarch. Sinn Fein refuses to take the oath.
    That oath would seem to be nothing more than ceremonial at this juncture in history, but that makes sense, thanks.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Not to everyone one.

    The oath to the queen has even caused controversy in Canada where anyone who wants to become a citizen must make an allegiance to the Queen. In 2015, it went all the way to the supreme court.

    The queen is still our head of state, and pleading allegiance to her is pleading allegiance to the way the country is governed.

    Just google (on phone, cant provide links) "canada Supreme court queen oath" to get others views on why they dont want to take an oath such as this.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    I tend to view the current state of the British monarchy as a bit silly but relatively inconsequential and harmless for the most part. Watching the Election coverage last night, it was refreshing to have to see someone like Theresa May (or any of the winners of their seats actually) have to stand on stage waiting for the results with someone called "Lord Buckethead" (who managed to gather about 300 votes). I also was delighted by how snarky the BBC Election crew got with all the candidates who came on air to talk in the wee hours of the morning, and I couldn't help but think to myself "I kinda wish I lived here".
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235

    Anti Trumper White House leaker named Reality Winner (no joke) wanted to burn the White House down and join The Taliban.

    Seems like a realistic plan.

    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/prosecutors-alleged-nsa-leaker-wanted-to-burn-the-white-house-down/531327849

    Your boy Julian Assange supports her 100%. Edward Snowden is also sending his well-wishes from Moscow. Unlike these two cowards, at least Chelsea Manning and this girl stuck around to face the music instead of hiding in embassies.
    I still don't understand how making yourself a martyr somehow makes your information more "legitimate".
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,440
    The Sinn Fein stance seems a bit odd these days. Originally they took a principled stand against any representation, but they took their seats in the Irish Parliament in something like 1927 I think. More recently they have been participating in the Northern Irish assembly and I'm struggling to see how they can justify doing that (which is clearly an organ of the British state) and not going to Westminster. I've no doubt that taking an oath to the queen would go down badly with their hard-line republican support, but Sinn Fein has increasingly been attracting support from more moderate nationalists and is close to being in a position to exercise real power in both southern and northern Ireland as a result.

    If their continuing refusal to take seats in Westminster results in the DUP influencing the Brexit process in a direction not favoured by nationalists (and that currently looks like a good bet) Sinn Fein could easily find they pay a price at the ballot box in the next election ...
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745

    Can any British posters provide a short, concise explanation as to why Sinn Fein abstains from Parliament?? I know historically they have been viewed as the political arm of the IRA, but what is the current situation and reason for this??

    Sinn Fein do not recognise the authority of UK parliament and actually use absentionism (were you get elected but do not take office) so as not to take the oath of office. I think this was so originally that they could run their own parliament in Dublin... Then the south voted for independence and then it... Strangely, became tradition? Although I think it may have been because people with criminal convictions for murder are not allowed to take office (Sinn Fien being the political arm of the repugnant and wholly evil IRA that used American money to kill British and Irish citizens because they didn't like the outcome of a democratic vote)

    The southern Sinn Fien movement has just started to actually take posts in the Republic of Ireland, but I think the Republic of Ireland has similar rules on criminals taking office... Although saying this... I think a veneer of respectability has been applied to Sinn Fien... I think they actually are against violence now... Not sure... I think the hidden weapon caches are all but depleted and cannot be replaced as the old days of American money for terrorism has gone, along with the twin towers...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017
    Anyone with a better read on things have thoughts on how sustainable May's alliance with the DUP is?? From what I understand she has just made a pact with fringes of the UK right-wing.

    Edit: just looked up their positions on LGBT issues. I've answered my own question as to the fringe bit. It's good to know the right-wing in the UK is just as willing as the one in the US to dismiss the humanity of nearly 10% of the population for political power.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2017
    She should call more elections, yeah totally.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,440
    How sustainable? Not very I would say. I would be very surprised if there are the sort of formal coalition arrangements that David Cameron had with the Liberal Democrats. Instead May will be faced with having to make constant concessions to the DUP to persuade them to provide support on a vote by vote basis - and any such concessions are going to annoy elements in her own party, so the whips are going to need to be busy :D.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Listened to Trump "press conference" today.

    He took two questions. The first he picked (I don't remember names both reporters will be 'John')

    He's like 'John, Washington Times'. So he called the Ringer from a conservative friendly publication for a softball question. When 'John' was not really ready, he held things up until he was instead of moving on.

    The next 'John' that got to ask a question was apparently a mainstream journalist. He only took this one other question. Trump was scared poopless here.

    Before this John could ask a question, Trump was like 'Now John, I've known you for a very long time. You are going to be nice to me right? RIGHT? You will be nice to me, please be nice to me. Come on John be nice?'

    Then John said 'yeah I'll be nice I'm always nice'. Then asked his question, that Trump dodged, then that was it.

    What a coward.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017

    Listened to Trump "press conference" today.

    He took two questions. The first he picked (I don't remember names both reporters will be 'John')

    He's like 'John, Washington Times'. So he called the Ringer from a conservative friendly publication for a softball question. When 'John' was not really ready, he held things up until he was instead of moving on.

    The next 'John' that got to ask a question was apparently a mainstream journalist. He only took this one other question. Trump was scared poopless here.

    Before this John could ask a question, Trump was like 'Now John, I've known you for a very long time. You are going to be nice to me right? RIGHT? You will be nice to me, please be nice to me. Come on John be nice?'

    Then John said 'yeah I'll be nice I'm always nice'. Then asked his question, that Trump dodged, then that was it.

    What a coward.

    From the Mayo Clinic website:

    If you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may feel a sense of entitlement — and when you don't receive special treatment, you may become impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — for instance, the best car, athletic club or medical care.

    At the same time, you have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation. To feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make yourself appear superior. Or you may feel depressed and moody because you fall short of perfection.


    DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

    Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
    Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
    Exaggerating your achievements and talents
    Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
    Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
    Requiring constant admiration
    Having a sense of entitlement
    Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
    Taking advantage of others to get what you want
    Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
    Being envious of others and believing others envy you
    Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,655
    The Berkeley riots of the past few months are old news, but one of the antifa guys on video smashing a guy with a bike lock and bloodying him turned out to be a professor.

    With liberal professors outnumbering conservatives anywhere from 5 to 1 as high as 12 to 1 it's no wonder why these places have become such hotbeds for radical ideology.

    Radical ideologies like the ones that have Evergreen College enforcing "no whites allowed" days on campuses. And patrolling with baseball bats, of course.

    What are we teaching the young.


    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/26/eric-clanton-former-calif-professor-arrested-in-vi/

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/33027/
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    The Berkeley riots of the past few months are old news, but one of the antifa guys on video smashing a guy with a bike lock and bloodying him turned out to be a professor.

    With liberal professors outnumbering conservatives anywhere from 5 to 1 as high as 12 to 1 it's no wonder why these places have become such hotbeds for radical ideology.

    Radical ideologies like the ones that have Evergreen College enforcing "no whites allowed" days on campuses. And patrolling with baseball bats, of course.

    What are we teaching the young.


    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/26/eric-clanton-former-calif-professor-arrested-in-vi/

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/33027/

    former professor. There is a difference.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017
    I actually was (painfully) immersing myself in the Alt-right swamps of Youtube a few months ago and saw this after some people on 4chan somehow identified this guy. I even thought about posting about it, but their evidence at the time seemed fairly damning but also pretty circumstantial (mostly photographic). The thing that really killed him was that he ordered a bunch of bike locks in bulk on Amazon, and someone hacked into his account and looked up his purchase history. If anyone looks up my purchase history they will see alot of PS4 games and a wireless mouse.

    In the meantime.....



    Yeah, ok then. Put up or shut up asshole. Money talks, bullshit walks. In this case, the money is putting up your hand and being sworn in. Also, if you have tapes (which I'm 90% sure he doesn't), they need to be turned over to the Senate Intelligence Committee. But he doesn't, because if he did, he could prove Jim Comey is a liar within the hour by releasing them to the media. If there ARE tapes and he is not releasing them, it's because everything Comey said is true. There are no other scenarios.

    I mean seriously, please, by all means, put Trump under oath. There is a 0% chance he walks away from that situation without a.) contradicting everything he has said on the matter thus far or b.) perjuring himself. Hell, he might even manage to do both.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2017
    To me it sounded like he might have tapes but is getting rid of them soon. He said at one point "you're going to be very disappointed.". Why are we "going to be" disappointed? Is it because they "will be" erased? If there are no tapes, say so.

    One way to confirm or not tapes might be to ask Obama or one of his team, they would know about any long-standing recording system in the oval office. Then we will learn about the coincidence that the system just happened to not be working when Comey was there right?

    And that clip included his begging, pleading and crying to Jon the reporter to be nice.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017

    To me it sounded like he might have tapes but is getting rid of them soon. He said at one point "you're going to be very disappointed.". Why are we "going to be" disappointed? Is it because they "will be" erased? If there are no tapes, say so.

    One way to confirm or not tapes might be to ask Obama or one of his team, they would know about any long-standing recording system in the oval office. Then we will learn about the coincidence that the system just happened to not be working when Comey was there right?

    And that clip included his begging, pleading and crying to Jon the reporter to be nice.

    To me it sounded like he might have tapes but is getting rid of them soon. He said at one point "you're going to be very disappointed.". Why are we "going to be" disappointed? Is it because they "will be" erased? If there are no tapes, say so.

    One way to confirm or not tapes might be to ask Obama or one of his team, they would know about any long-standing recording system in the oval office. Then we will learn about the coincidence that the system just happened to not be working when Comey was there right?

    And that clip included his begging, pleading and crying to Jon the reporter to be nice.

    Again, it really doesn't matter if there are tapes or not. If they contradicted Comey in the slightest, they would have been released yesterday. So either they have them, and they prove Trump is a liar (as if anyone could have any doubt), or he doesn't have them and it's just a stupid bluff that no one is falling far. These little games are him trying to win a battle in the moment, but in the legal war he is eventually going to be in with Robert Mueller, they will be fatal mistakes.

    Look, I understand most politicians lie, and that nearly all of them stretch the truth. I have never, ever seen anything that approaches the sheer volume and brazenness of Donald Trump's lies. He does it so often that it almost works as a strategy because people simply can't believe someone could lie as often as he does. People don't want to believe their President is, in almost every aspect, just....horrible. He's a malignant narcissist and pathological liar who has spent his entire career screwing people over for his own benefit. I suspect most Trump supporters know this as well. It's not a joke, it isn't "funny" anymore. There is something wrong with this guy. He is dangerously unstable, he has no interest in learning how government or the world works. I put my bets on this ending, very, very badly 7 months ago, and if I had to again, I would double down and put all my chips on the table. Either Donald Trump is going to destroy himself, or our system of government is going to inch toward the brink of failing altogether.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2017

    People don't want to believe their President is, in almost every aspect, just....horrible. He's a malignant narcissist and pathological liar who has spent his entire career screwing people over for his own benefit. I suspect most Trump supporters know this as well. It's not a joke, it isn't "funny" anymore. There is something wrong with this guy. He is dangerously unstable, he has no interest in learning how government or the world works. I put my bets on this ending, very, very badly 7 months ago, and if I had to again, I would double down and put all my chips on the table. Either Donald Trump is going to destroy himself, or our system of government is going to inch toward the brink of failing altogether.

    If he sticks around another 6 months until 2018 and then crashes and burns and brings down Pence with him we could be looking at President Nancy Pelosi lol.

    Rep. Martha McSally (R-AZ) was caught on hot mike discussin that very possiblity -
    "It’s basically being taken out on me,” McSally is heard saying according to Tucson Weekly, referencing the President’s unsettling behavior. “Any Republican member of Congress, you are going down with the ship. And we’re going to hand the gavel to [Rep. Nancy] Pelosi in 2018. They only need 28 seats and the path to that gavel being handed over is through my seat. And right now, it doesn’t matter that it’s me, it doesn’t matter what I’ve done. I have an ‘R’ next to my name and right now, this environment would have me not prevail.”

    https://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/the-skinny/Content?oid=9242427
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    We may need a history thread, but the Canadian Loonie turns 30 this month.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2017

    Anyone with a better read on things have thoughts on how sustainable May's alliance with the DUP is?? From what I understand she has just made a pact with fringes of the UK right-wing.

    Edit: just looked up their positions on LGBT issues. I've answered my own question as to the fringe bit. It's good to know the right-wing in the UK is just as willing as the one in the US to dismiss the humanity of nearly 10% of the population for political power.

    I don't think it will hold. It would really only take about 10 Tory abstentions in the Queen's speech to bring them down, and the party has more than 10 openly gay MPs.

    Then there is the issue of the next election. They will worry that the whole party will be tainted by association. They successfully attacked Labour in 2015 with the threat of a coalition with the SNP, and the SNP are far less deranged than the DUP.

    Finally, there is the issue of Europe. The Tory party also has more than 10 fanatically pro-European MPs, who will stop at nothing to oppose May's "no deal is better than a bad deal" approach. They could go behind her back to the (pro-European) Liberal Democrats, and beg them to form a coalition "to save the country from the DUP", and offering a second referendum. I could see the Lib Dems being persuaded on those terms, despite the last coalition going so badly for them.

    It is perhaps a good example of how out of touch May is with her own party that she is even persisting in trying this...
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    One additional vast huge problem is that the UK government is supposed to be acting as neutral arbiter in Northern Ireland, as the local administration has broken down. The Unionist leader Arlene Foster was implicated in a corruption scandal that Sinn Fein had been protesting against. No way that Westminster can be neutral now.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017
    In regards to Trump and the truth, you may have heard that no major DC lawyers were willing to sign on to this guy, because they, quite simply, think he'll be a horrible client who won't listen to their advice, which is why he is going with his New York lawyer. This excerpt from the Washington Post explains why:

    It was a mid-December morning in 2007 — the start of an interrogation unlike anything else in the public record of Trump’s life.

    Trump had brought it on himself. He had sued a reporter, accusing him of being reckless and dishonest in a book that raised questions about Trump’s net worth. The reporter’s attorneys turned the tables and brought Trump in for a deposition.

    For two straight days, they asked Trump question after question that touched on the same theme: Trump’s honesty.

    The lawyers confronted the mogul with his past statements — and with his company’s internal documents, which often showed those statements had been incorrect or invented. The lawyers were relentless. Trump, the bigger-than-life mogul, was vulnerable — cornered, out-prepared and under oath.

    Thirty times, they caught him.

    Trump had misstated sales at his condo buildings. Inflated the price of membership at one of his golf clubs. Overstated the depth of his past debts and the number of his employees.

    That deposition — 170 transcribed pages — offers extraordinary insights into Trump’s relationship with the truth. Trump’s falsehoods were unstrategic — needless, highly specific, easy to disprove. When caught, Trump sometimes blamed others for the error or explained that the untrue thing really was true, in his mind, because he saw the situation more positively than others did.


    If Trump ever goes under oath, his Presidency is done, assuming Republicans don't suddenly decide perjury isn't a big deal, which, given what has happened with Jeff Sessions, they probably WILL do.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2017
    If Trump ever goes under oath, he'll just continue lying like he always does. It's like a compulsion, it's taken over him. It's his natural state.

    And he's been under oath before. Lied his butt off. He's really bought into the "I'm the best ever". He can't accept anything else especially the truth. He's just a bad, confused, greedy, narcissist.

    "What is most disturbing in Trump’s sworn statements is the amount of nonsense he spouts as he mangles the English language into meanings no rational person could accept. An unsuccessful “development by Donald Trump” is not a “development by Donald Trump.” A successful project built by another developer who paid to have Trump’s name on the building is a “Donald Trump development.” A payment of $400,000 equals a payment of $1 million. An ownership stake of 30 percent is actually a 50 percent stake. In a single sentence, he says he knows some people’s names but not their identities, as if talking about Batman and Superman. He studied résumés, but he only glanced at them. The list goes on, with one point in common: Every one of his answers, while under oath, depends not on the truth but on whether it makes him look good. [...]

    The all-time classic Trump deposition is the one he gave in 2007 in a libel lawsuit he brought against Timothy O’Brien, author of TrumpNation, because the book stated that Trump’s net worth was far less than he claimed. (It was. Just ask Deutsche Bank.) Throughout this deposition, Trump sounded delusional, in what some might dismiss as compulsive lying. But knowing Trump, I don’t think he was lying; he believed what he was saying, but the facts just kept getting in his way.Trump needed to prove he was damaged by the purported libel, but he wasn’t content with just saying he had lost some specific bit of business. Instead, he claimed to have lost business he never knew existed. “The fact is that a lot of people who would have done deals with me didn’t come to do deals with me,” he testified. “I can’t tell you who they are because they never came to me."

    source is this 8/12/16 Newsweek Article called DONALD TRUMP’S HISTORY OF LYING UNDER OATH
  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    @jjstraka34 do a YouTube search for Charlie sheen on Donald Trump interview it'll put a smile on your face.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017
    Wesboi said:

    @jjstraka34 do a YouTube search for Charlie sheen on Donald Trump interview it'll put a smile on your face.

    Ok, so.....Donald Trump walks up to Charlie Sheen saying he can't make it to his wedding (despite not being invited), hands him what he SAYS is a pair of platinum cufflinks from Harry Winston as a gift, and six months later Sheen gets them appraised and it turns out they are fakes. This is unimportant except it reveals exactly who he is:

    1.) He's obsessed with being liked (trying to convince himself he had actually been invited to the wedding).

    2.) Again, he lied about something that was completely unimportant. He didn't have to give Charlie Sheen these cufflinks, and far beyond that, he didn't have to lie about what they actually were. If he had wanted to give him real ones, he could have. If he had not wanted to give him anything, that would have been great too. Why lie about this unless you can't stop yourself, or at some level you actually enjoy it??

    People seem to be forgetting that this guy settled a $25 million dollar fraud case in regards to his 'University" after the election, a case he (surprise, surprise) said he would never settle during the campaign.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2017
    A report and a story in The Guardian said Trump’s U.K. trip had been put “on hold” after he told British Prime Minister Theresa May he was worried about being met with mass street protests.

    Aww poor worried guy. He just wants to screw us over and be liked.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    A report and a story in The Guardian said Trump’s U.K. trip had been put “on hold” after he told British Prime Minister Theresa May he was worried about being met with mass street protests.


    Well, that's one thing he isn't wrong about...
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Well, what you have to remember is no-one in the history of politics has ever been treated this badly or unfairly.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2017
    He isn't going to the UK because he insulted and lied about the mayor of London a couple hours after a terrorist attack, and the fact that the absolute LAST thing Theresa May can afford right now is being seen in even the general vicinity of Donald Trump.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    A report and a story in The Guardian said Trump’s U.K. trip had been put “on hold” after he told British Prime Minister Theresa May he was worried about being met with mass street protests.

    Aww poor worried guy. He just wants to screw us over and be liked.

    That's probably a good thing.

    I know he was making a HUGE deal about being brought in on the "traditional gold carriage" that other head's of states rode in, in the past. London police, the CIA and M15 all said it was a horrible idea because the carriage doesn't offer much protection and it'd increase security costs just for his naivety.
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