Just out of curiosity, you do realize that your level of aggravation might decrease if you would quit paying attention to any tweets coming from the current Administration, yes?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
I hear ya, but I've always thought that's a potentially dangerous phrase in the thoughts of the right person. If one can try to forget all the normal arguments about what is 'good and evil' for a moment and look at it in a different way, it can read differently to different people.
Ex. Evil is what I don't like and good is what I like.
I seriously would not be surprised if the US and potentially other countries as well, are not gearing up to be visited upon again by an extreme group (left OR right), a lone wolf or even worse, a lone actor's (totally off the radar) attempt at ruler assassination. There certainly has been the attempts on lesser officials. Not so many talk about it much but it is there.
The rhetoric is certainly out there to support such, and the danger is compounded by the internet and social media (just a way of life now).
Just out of curiosity, you do realize that your level of aggravation might decrease if you would quit paying attention to any tweets coming from the current Administration, yes?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
I hear ya, but I've always thought that's a potentially dangerous phrase in the thoughts of the right person. If one can try to forget all the normal arguments about what is 'good and evil' for a moment and look at it in a different way, it can read differently to different people.
Ex. Evil is what I don't like and good is what I like.
I seriously would not be surprised if the US and potentially other countries as well, are not gearing up to be visited upon again by an extreme group (left OR right), a lone wolf or even worse, a lone actor's (totally off the radar) attempt at ruler assassination. There certainly has been the attempts on lesser officials. Not so many talk about it much but it is there.
The rhetoric is certainly out there to support such, and the danger is compounded by the internet and social media (just a way of life now).
The US is already an extremely violent country in regards to our political leaders. Consider this, written after the baseball practice shooting:
Four US Presidents out of forty-five have been murdered by assassins while in office – Lincoln (1865), Garfield (1881), McKinley (1901) and Kennedy (1963). Three of those are clustered in a 36 year period more than a century ago. But Ronald Reagan almost certainly would have died of his wounds had he been President in the medical era when Garfield and McKinley were shot and died. If you add in Presidents who survived serious assassination attempts (Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford, only among the most serious) the list gets considerably longer. If you compare the United States to even remotely comparable countries not in the midst of civil wars, there’s simply nothing comparable to this record – not Britain, France, Germany, Canada, Italy. There’s just nothing comparable. Of all those countries I just listed I don’t think there are four assassinations over the two-plus centuries of American history.
@jjstraka34 Right, right, a good piece, and on top of it all, those mentioned were before the internet and the ease of dissemination and various interpretations of internet and social media 'info' by groups and individual actors, which really ups the chances IMO.
Just out of curiosity, you do realize that your level of aggravation might decrease if you would quit paying attention to any tweets coming from the current Administration, yes?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
I hear ya, but I've always thought that's a potentially dangerous phrase in the thoughts of the right person. If one can try to forget all the normal arguments about what is 'good and evil' for a moment and look at it in a different way, it can read differently to different people.
Ex. Evil is what I don't like and good is what I like.
I seriously would not be surprised if the US and potentially other countries as well, are not gearing up to be visited upon again by an extreme group (left OR right), a lone wolf or even worse, a lone actor's (totally off the radar) attempt at ruler assassination. There certainly has been the attempts on lesser officials. Not so many talk about it much but it is there.
The rhetoric is certainly out there to support such, and the danger is compounded by the internet and social media (just a way of life now).
It doesn't matter what your ideas of "good" and "evil" are. Doing nothing is surrendering. You might as well be dead already, or never born, since you have given up any hope of influencing the world.
And it is no co-incidence that I was quoting an American president - one of those who was assassinated in office.
Just out of curiosity, you do realize that your level of aggravation might decrease if you would quit paying attention to any tweets coming from the current Administration, yes?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
I hear ya, but I've always thought that's a potentially dangerous phrase in the thoughts of the right person. If one can try to forget all the normal arguments about what is 'good and evil' for a moment and look at it in a different way, it can read differently to different people.
Ex. Evil is what I don't like and good is what I like.
I seriously would not be surprised if the US and potentially other countries as well, are not gearing up to be visited upon again by an extreme group (left OR right), a lone wolf or even worse, a lone actor's (totally off the radar) attempt at ruler assassination. There certainly has been the attempts on lesser officials. Not so many talk about it much but it is there.
The rhetoric is certainly out there to support such, and the danger is compounded by the internet and social media (just a way of life now).
It doesn't matter what your ideas of "good" and "evil" are. Doing nothing is surrendering. You might as well be dead already, or never born, since you have given up any hope of influencing the world.
And it is no co-incidence that I was quoting an American president - one of those who was assassinated in office.
@Fardragon Is this directed at someone who might have surrendered or are you accusing ME of being dead, or of having given up?
My post is directed at the how some terrorists and many 'others' have taken that phrase (I could name many), not that it is a 'bad' phrase. It matters greatly in THAT aspect of what one's idea of good and evil are. It certainly mattered to Dylann Roof , in my study of him and his manifesto. He decided NOT to surrender after coming to his misbegotten conclusions, and that something had to be done right then.
When Trump loses his reelection bid in 2020, which he will, I will be more than happy to say "I told you so". People's overblown fears about an Obama Presidency never came to pass just like people's overblown fears of a Trump Presidency will never come to pass. If you don't like Trump, then don't complain about all the golf he plays--the more he is on the links the less he has time to screw up anything. His wild tweet-ranting, though, is ultimately irrelevant.
His tweeting is alienating his moderate supporters, even if he's right that it's galvanizing (...a process that weakens steel) his 'base'. I also suspect he'll not be reelected as of now, but all he'd need to do is start a war to significantly improve his electability. A war could certainly occur, and modern wars are not quick or clean, (if they ever were!) so any he starts would drag on for years. Technically, he could even re-escalate Iraq and/or Afghanistan if North Korea is too scary.
I don't know why people compare the Obama era 'fears' to those of the Trump era; Obama wasn't promising to take away redneck guns afterall, that was just dreamed up non-sense, whereas Trump has made some pretty nuts promises.
When Trump loses his reelection bid in 2020, which he will, I will be more than happy to say "I told you so". People's overblown fears about an Obama Presidency never came to pass just like people's overblown fears of a Trump Presidency will never come to pass. If you don't like Trump, then don't complain about all the golf he plays--the more he is on the links the less he has time to screw up anything. His wild tweet-ranting, though, is ultimately irrelevant.
You are assuming that the 2020 elections actually take place, and are free and fair. He wouldn't be the first dictator to cancel them. Only a fool would say "it could never happen here".
Then there is the damage to the international reputation of the USA - it's already wrecked, and it's too late to fix it. The damage is done.
When Trump loses his reelection bid in 2020, which he will, I will be more than happy to say "I told you so". People's overblown fears about an Obama Presidency never came to pass just like people's overblown fears of a Trump Presidency will never come to pass. If you don't like Trump, then don't complain about all the golf he plays--the more he is on the links the less he has time to screw up anything. His wild tweet-ranting, though, is ultimately irrelevant.
Except, him not doing his job properly can screw up the country.
Katerina was a natural disaster the for first 6 hours it hit New Orleans. It was a man-made disaster for the months that followed it.
~
And there is a different rhetoric between "Obama is going to ruin this country by taking our guns away!" and "Trump is going to ruin our lives by taking our healthcare away!"
He may lose the 2020 election, if he gets that far, but damage (much like the recession in Bush's last months) will be done.
No one on this forum hates Trump more than me, but he has at least an even chance of being re-elected. Incumbency, the Electoral College, and massive voter suppression are all working in his favor, nevermind a new round of Russian interference.
You are assuming that the 2020 elections actually take place, and are free and fair. He wouldn't be the first dictator to cancel them. Only a fool would say "it could never happen here".
Some people thought that Obama was going to cancel elections and/or ignore limitations and run for a third term, as well. This is tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theory thinking, the same kind as employed by people who believe in FEMA camps, HAARP, and chemtrails; it has no place in rational discussions.
Do not underestimate how many Republicans do not like Trump. Some of the ones who voted for him, both at the convention and during the election, did so only because their mode of thought was "anyone but Hillary". These people are going to remain motivated to try and get someone better at the next national convention.
You may think I am a Trump supporter but you would be mistaken. I didn't vote for him then and I don't support him now. Of course, I do not actively oppose him, either, because he hasn't really done much of anything--for all his bluster his track record so far is mostly that, bluster and hot air.
The biggest Trump card he holds right now in the 2020 elections is the simple fact that virtually nothing has changed so far for the DNC. It's leadership is still awful and incompetent and no accountability nor sincere repentance has so far been forthcoming. Granted, theres a lot of time left and that may change, maybe the Justice Democrats will achieve something, or who knows what. Too early for predictions methinks
You are assuming that the 2020 elections actually take place, and are free and fair. He wouldn't be the first dictator to cancel them. Only a fool would say "it could never happen here".
Some people thought that Obama was going to cancel elections and/or ignore limitations and run for a third term, as well.
Do not confuse what uneducated hick Americans think with what educated international historians think. This is a Trump attitude: "my opinion is just as valid as yours, even though you are an expert and I am a moron".
This is tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theory thinking, the same kind as employed by people who believe in FEMA camps, HAARP, and chemtrails; it has no place in rational discussions.
Similar thoughts where expressed in Germany in the 1930s, Russia 1917, France 1789, Rome 44 BC, and on far more occasions than I can possibly enumerate.
Do not underestimate how many Republicans do not like Trump. Some of the ones who voted for him, both at the convention and during the election, did so only because their mode of thought was "anyone but Hillary".
I don't. I'm sure they all hate him. But that's where his stupidity makes him more dangerous. They all think they can use him - right up until he (or a more skilled puppeteer) has them thrown in the Tower. Read about the Howard family or Thomas Cromwell during the Tudor period.
And yes, I do believe the Democratic party are responsible for the election of Trump via their utterly appalling and stupid choice of candidate. That doesn't mean I'm willing to accept the outcome. Of course I'm not American, so there is not much I can do apart from try to point Americans to the lessons of history.
I do believe the Democratic party are responsible for the election of Trump via their utterly appalling and stupid choice of candidate. That doesn't mean I'm willing to accept the outcome.
I'm quite the opposite--I do accept the outcome, but I don't blame Trump's election on the Democrats.
After all, it's Trump voters who put him in power.
I do believe the Democratic party are responsible for the election of Trump via their utterly appalling and stupid choice of candidate. That doesn't mean I'm willing to accept the outcome.
I'm quite the opposite--I do accept the outcome, but I don't blame Trump's election on the Democrats.
After all, it's Trump voters who put him in power.
How can you challenge someone on corruption when you are corrupt yourself? How can you challenge someone on sexual impropriety when you tolerate identical behaviour in your own partner? How can you challenge someone on competence when you have a track record of leaking state secrets? How can you offer people hope when you preach more-of-the-same?
If the Democrats can't accept responsibility, then Trump won't need to cheat in order to win a second term.
@Fardragon: I am not corrupt, I don't tolerate sexual misconduct in my family, I don't have a track record of leaking state secrets, and I don't preach "more of the same."
(and after going over the issue again and again, I'm still not convinced Clinton did these things, either)
I voted for Clinton. If that makes me to blame for Trump's election, then who should I have voted for instead?
Some people thought that Obama was going to cancel elections and/or ignore limitations and run for a third term, as well. This is tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theory thinking, the same kind as employed by people who believe in FEMA camps, HAARP, and chemtrails; it has no place in rational discussions.
There's more to it with Trump than a conspiracy theory that he will assault voting rights.
We've heard his false claims that he says about winning the popular vote and having the biggest crowd ever at his innaugaration. Both of those, and many other claims, are lies. But he made the claims and he will not back down, he will make the facts back down. That's what he does.
He said he won the popular vote. He will do anything to retroactively prove this false claims and at the same time meddle in elections in the future. His commission will dig and if they find one typo or dimpled hanging chad or or someone used red ink instead of black or anything they will be on fox news everyday saying omg the voting is so horrible. He will then claim to be vindicated because his guys are on TV saying omg voting is american carnage.
They don't even have to find anything they will do this. They do this sort of thing all the time already.
Then he will use this pretext to meddle in future elections. He will purge voter rolls and claim that he was right all along. You know this is what he's doing.
Good luck voting in 2018 and 2020 once he starts taking away voting rights, you won't be able to get them back. Once he has the party preference it will be easy.
If you are registered Democratic voter Michael A. Jordan when you go to vote you will find that you can't when you get to your polling place. Why? Because there's a felon in Missouri named Michael T. Jordain they purged you from the voting rolls. You can get reinstated but not in time to vote in this election, sorry bye.
This literally happens now. Textbook voter suppression.
Jeff Session's Department of Justice (DOJ) sent a request to 44 states last Wednesday, the same day the Presidential Advisory Commission sent a letter requesting personal voter information.
The DOJ requested that election officials respond by detailing their compliance with a section of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA), which covers 44 states and was enacted to help people register to vote, but also specifies when voters may be kicked off the rolls.
Several experts said it’s difficult not to see the DOJ letter in connection with the commission’s letter as part of a multipronged effort to restrict voting rights.
Former Justice Department officials say that while there’s nothing notable about seeking information about compliance with the NVRA, it is unusual for the department to send out such a broad inquiry to so many states seeking information. Such a wide probe could signal the department is broadly fishing for cases of non-compliance to bring suits aimed at purging the voter rolls.
“When you see DOJ send a bunch of letters like this requesting information about compliance with the law, that’s usually a sign that they’re kicking an enforcement campaign into gear,” Sam Bagenstos, who served as the principal deputy assistant attorney general for civil rights from 2009 until 2011. “It looks like what they’re doing is they’re laying the groundwork to file lawsuits against states that, in their view, aren’t kicking enough people off of the rolls.”
I predict that people will still have the right to vote in America by 2020.
And I predict that if Trump looses he will claim that thousands of Mexicans where bussed in to vote, and therefore the election result is null and void.
@Fardragon: I am not corrupt, I don't tolerate sexual misconduct in my family, I don't have a track record of leaking state secrets, and I don't preach "more of the same."
(and after going over the issue again and again, I'm still not convinced Clinton did these things, either)
I voted for Clinton. If that makes me to blame for Trump's election, then who should I have voted for instead?
Not you personally. Clinton, who if she cared about anything other than her personal ambition would have stepped aside for an electable candidate, and the Democratic party hierarchy (the men in grey suits we call them here) who should have forced her to step aside.
But you have to accept that even if the people who voted for Trump are "stupid", a stupid person's vote counts for just as much as a wise person's, and the Democrats need to win their votes in order to win.
And I predict that if Trump looses he will claim that thousands of Mexicans where bussed in to vote, and therefore the election result is null and void.
I will take this bet. How much are you willing to lose when this prediction turns out to be incorrect?
Comments
If one can try to forget all the normal arguments about what is 'good and evil' for a moment and look at it in a different way, it can read differently to different people.
Ex. Evil is what I don't like and good is what I like.
I seriously would not be surprised if the US and potentially other countries as well, are not gearing up to be visited upon again by an extreme group (left OR right), a lone wolf or even worse, a lone actor's (totally off the radar) attempt at ruler assassination. There certainly has been the attempts on lesser officials.
Not so many talk about it much but it is there.
The rhetoric is certainly out there to support such, and the danger is compounded by the internet and social media (just a way of life now).
Four US Presidents out of forty-five have been murdered by assassins while in office – Lincoln (1865), Garfield (1881), McKinley (1901) and Kennedy (1963). Three of those are clustered in a 36 year period more than a century ago. But Ronald Reagan almost certainly would have died of his wounds had he been President in the medical era when Garfield and McKinley were shot and died. If you add in Presidents who survived serious assassination attempts (Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford, only among the most serious) the list gets considerably longer. If you compare the United States to even remotely comparable countries not in the midst of civil wars, there’s simply nothing comparable to this record – not Britain, France, Germany, Canada, Italy. There’s just nothing comparable. Of all those countries I just listed I don’t think there are four assassinations over the two-plus centuries of American history.
You're welcome.
And it is no co-incidence that I was quoting an American president - one of those who was assassinated in office.
My post is directed at the how some terrorists and many 'others' have taken that phrase (I could name many), not that it is a 'bad' phrase. It matters greatly in THAT aspect of what one's idea of good and evil are. It certainly mattered to Dylann Roof , in my study of him and his manifesto. He decided NOT to surrender after coming to his misbegotten conclusions, and that something had to be done right then.
I don't know why people compare the Obama era 'fears' to those of the Trump era; Obama wasn't promising to take away redneck guns afterall, that was just dreamed up non-sense, whereas Trump has made some pretty nuts promises.
Then there is the damage to the international reputation of the USA - it's already wrecked, and it's too late to fix it. The damage is done.
Katerina was a natural disaster the for first 6 hours it hit New Orleans. It was a man-made disaster for the months that followed it.
~
And there is a different rhetoric between "Obama is going to ruin this country by taking our guns away!" and "Trump is going to ruin our lives by taking our healthcare away!"
He may lose the 2020 election, if he gets that far, but damage (much like the recession in Bush's last months) will be done.
Do not underestimate how many Republicans do not like Trump. Some of the ones who voted for him, both at the convention and during the election, did so only because their mode of thought was "anyone but Hillary". These people are going to remain motivated to try and get someone better at the next national convention.
You may think I am a Trump supporter but you would be mistaken. I didn't vote for him then and I don't support him now. Of course, I do not actively oppose him, either, because he hasn't really done much of anything--for all his bluster his track record so far is mostly that, bluster and hot air.
Similar thoughts where expressed in Germany in the 1930s, Russia 1917, France 1789, Rome 44 BC, and on far more occasions than I can possibly enumerate. I don't. I'm sure they all hate him. But that's where his stupidity makes him more dangerous. They all think they can use him - right up until he (or a more skilled puppeteer) has them thrown in the Tower. Read about the Howard family or Thomas Cromwell during the Tudor period.
And yes, I do believe the Democratic party are responsible for the election of Trump via their utterly appalling and stupid choice of candidate. That doesn't mean I'm willing to accept the outcome. Of course I'm not American, so there is not much I can do apart from try to point Americans to the lessons of history.
"the price of liberty is eternal vigilance."
After all, it's Trump voters who put him in power.
If the Democrats can't accept responsibility, then Trump won't need to cheat in order to win a second term.
(and after going over the issue again and again, I'm still not convinced Clinton did these things, either)
I voted for Clinton. If that makes me to blame for Trump's election, then who should I have voted for instead?
We've heard his false claims that he says about winning the popular vote and having the biggest crowd ever at his innaugaration. Both of those, and many other claims, are lies. But he made the claims and he will not back down, he will make the facts back down. That's what he does.
He said he won the popular vote. He will do anything to retroactively prove this false claims and at the same time meddle in elections in the future. His commission will dig and if they find one typo or dimpled hanging chad or or someone used red ink instead of black or anything they will be on fox news everyday saying omg the voting is so horrible. He will then claim to be vindicated because his guys are on TV saying omg voting is american carnage.
They don't even have to find anything they will do this. They do this sort of thing all the time already.
Then he will use this pretext to meddle in future elections. He will purge voter rolls and claim that he was right all along. You know this is what he's doing.
Good luck voting in 2018 and 2020 once he starts taking away voting rights, you won't be able to get them back. Once he has the party preference it will be easy.
If you are registered Democratic voter Michael A. Jordan when you go to vote you will find that you can't when you get to your polling place. Why? Because there's a felon in Missouri named Michael T. Jordain they purged you from the voting rolls. You can get reinstated but not in time to vote in this election, sorry bye.
This literally happens now. Textbook voter suppression.
Felons, since they are still citizens of the country, are allowed to vote in Canada. Here is our breakdown of who and how can vote.
For a country high on Democracy, you all seem to suck at it.
The DOJ requested that election officials respond by detailing their compliance with a section of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA), which covers 44 states and was enacted to help people register to vote, but also specifies when voters may be kicked off the rolls.
Several experts said it’s difficult not to see the DOJ letter in connection with the commission’s letter as part of a multipronged effort to restrict voting rights.
Former Justice Department officials say that while there’s nothing notable about seeking information about compliance with the NVRA, it is unusual for the department to send out such a broad inquiry to so many states seeking information. Such a wide probe could signal the department is broadly fishing for cases of non-compliance to bring suits aimed at purging the voter rolls.
“When you see DOJ send a bunch of letters like this requesting information about compliance with the law, that’s usually a sign that they’re kicking an enforcement campaign into gear,” Sam Bagenstos, who served as the principal deputy assistant attorney general for civil rights from 2009 until 2011. “It looks like what they’re doing is they’re laying the groundwork to file lawsuits against states that, in their view, aren’t kicking enough people off of the rolls.”
But you have to accept that even if the people who voted for Trump are "stupid", a stupid person's vote counts for just as much as a wise person's, and the Democrats need to win their votes in order to win.
https://i1.kwejk.pl/k/obrazki/2017/07/b87c4f555d1951e066908c26d74d60ea.gif