@jjstraka34 If it isn't obvious, I've jumped off the Trump train.
What this tells me is that this wknd was likely a bit of a catalyst. At least a certain portion of Trump's voters were thinking "I cannot vote for Hillary, we'll throw some dynamite into the system". But they are now saying "what in the ever-loving hell is this freak show??" If he is losing @Balrog99, he is losing many more, and his polling may dip into the very low 30s.
BTW: I think Trump is slowly losing Fox News also. A lot of their reporters have been left speechless the last few days.
Yeah, I'll agree, I think this might be a turning point. I saw a video on Youtube of Shep Smith on Fox News, saying that despite Republican's love of Fox News and the greatness of Fox's booking team, they could not get ONE person to come on air in support of Trump's words "in the name of balance".
That hasn't happened before. They've always found SOMEONE batshit crazy enough to support him.
To be clear, I was never a big fan of Trump so I was kind of clinging to the stairs on the back of the caboose. I'm resigning myself to the fact that nobody really represents me in either party...
Yeah, I'm a bit resigned to it myself. Far more towards Democrat, but I'm not so pro-megacorp as the modern Democrat party. I'd say maybe 80% Democrat, 30% Republican, in terms of values.
At present the Green party is probably like 95-98% my values.
VICE News, if you have HBO Now, is pretty damn good. I thought the piece I posted earlier on the events of this weekend was brilliant. That girl sat right in the middle of the whole thing, was not the least bit rude or condescending to the white supremacists she was following throughout the day, simply asking them legitimate questions and letting them dig their own grave.
Vice News got my respect when they were airing footage of their correspondents in LITERAL war zones in Syria and Iraq. No BS sanitation by News anchors that you stare at for 80% of the time with 10% correspondents and 10% actual footage. Actual footage of talking to people imprisoned (temporarily) for being ISIS suspects, of following the military in buildings, and near actual firefights.
The sort of thing CNN seemed like about 30 years ago.
There will be a day when he's out of office, one way or another (impeach, quit, lose election or god forbid he somehow get's relelected and serves out another term). The rein of dumb will end.
American's didn't recognize how poor Republican Presidents can be when we had GW Bush. Hopefully they will learn their lesson after this. I don't think most americans are longing for Pence to pray North Korea away and sanction gay conversion therapy and be afraid of women attending dinners with him when his wife is not there. If they wanted that type of President, we would have had Ted Cruz be the Republican nominee but he couldn't even clear the Republican field.
I think I'm going to call it being an invocation of the 25th amendment, section 4. Literally all it takes is Mike Pence and half+1 of the executive officers writing to Congress saying that Trump is unhinged and unfit, and then Pence becomes acting president. That seems FAR more likely than impeachment proceedings, especially after the last 5 days, it is an easier bar to clear, and is far more politically easy to swallow than having to man up with the opposing party to take down an unhinged President.
Republicans could even spin it as "Honestly, we didn't know he'd be THAT bad, he didn't tell US all that stuff, that was ALL HIM. But look, we'll admit it, we screwed up, but we're RESPONSIBLE and kicked him to the curb. And oh hey, look at our shiny ultraconservative Republican of Christian values Acting President."
VICE News, if you have HBO Now, is pretty damn good. I thought the piece I posted earlier on the events of this weekend was brilliant. That girl sat right in the middle of the whole thing, was not the least bit rude or condescending to the white supremacists she was following throughout the day, simply asking them legitimate questions and letting them dig their own grave.
It was interesting how accepting people were of her presence. There was a bit of muttering, but generally people seemed to feel it was an opportunity to tell their side of the story. You might want to put that down to the naivety of people out on their first public demonstration, but that certainly wouldn't be the case for someone like David Duke. Instead, I think it reflected much more the prevailing view among the white supremacists that their views were now regarded as respectable by the mainstream and therefore it was time for them to engage more openly in the wider political process and take the opportunity to draw together all the support out there for their cause.
Given the balance of the reaction over the last few days I think that may have been a mis-calculation on their part ...
If Maddow is that good, I might give her a view. I try to get a balance of information from political sides but i'm picky about who I trust to give minimal spin or at least be honest about the spin they are giving. I like Micheal Tracey from The Young Turks a lot as well.
What music do you like? Just wondering since @jjstraka34 brought up the topic...
I listen to a lot of Grateful Dead, Hendrix, some modern day metal, some 90's rap, i'm all over the place.
Came accross something interesting in my new feed. While Antifa did hit a few journalists, it's all justified man, they were perpetuating rape culture.
It's not new that Republicans won't take Trump's side, I expected this pattern the moment FOX News went full Anti Trump in a way i'd never seen during the election. I get why. He's not a "real conservative", not as they define it anyway. And they do not have and never have had the balls to say what they mean and mean what they say. Too afraid of bad coverage from a perpetually dishonest press.
Trump's right, there was violence on both sides, that GOP cuckservatives are too timid and cowardly to say that, knowing it will be deliberately taken out of context to be evidence some sort of nazi sympathy, or worse yet being ignorant enough to not know, is one of the great failings of the GOP. Total cowards, who will gleefully send us off to war or give massive benefits to large corporations, but who hide and run away from every major social and political point their voters want them to make. If I were them, instead of cowering and virtue signing so they don't come after me, i'd ask em every day why they fail to disavow antifa violence, doesnt this mean you support antifa violence, cant we all agree all violence is wrong, why are you selective in your dislike of violence. What do they actually understand about young conservatives? Nothing. One of the running themes of new right people is the need to purge these type from the party leadership, and I couldn't agree more.
Yikes....Trump is now invoking Southern "culture" and the "beauty" of the Confederate monuments. He is now practically begging for more of these incidents to occur. Whatever you think of the monuments (opinions vary here) I think it might be reasonable to say that this is NOT the time for the President of the United States to be explicitly coming down on the side of the cause the white supremacist protesters were, ostensibly, marching for on Saturday. More people are going to die. I think he is counting on it.
I'll echo what @Stormvessel said. If Southern culture is represented by these stautes of Confederate Generals, and it is so fragile that it will fall apart without them, then what the hell does that say about Southern culture?? If that much of the identity of the South is placed in honorary monuments to a disgraced cause, we have real problems.
Some second-league politicians of polish ruling party apparently want to demand war reparations from Germany for WW2. Of course, that would be nigh impossible, as government of Polish People's Republic (or PRL; communist predecessor of our current Republic) resigned from them in treaty with Germany in 1953. It's upsetting and there are two reasons of this. First, it shows dangerous attitude: some fractions of my government seems to question succession of states between PRL and Polish Republic (III RP, as we call it). The only other political force I know that did the same were bolsheviks (!). There are hundreds of treaties signed by PRL, than are in force today. Our state is paying rent for people who retired in the last days of PRL, so if government thinks there is no succession, then why pay it? I *hope* it's just political show-off, but once again - there are *still* strong anti-german attitudes in Poland and only recent years made image of Germans better in eyes of Poles. It can easily, however, return to "usual", hostile state of things. Polish people love to whine about how other nations treated us bad. Other thing - I have no idea why demand reparations from Germany, but not from Russia. It wouldn't worry me if not for rumors of strong Russian influence over polish Ministry of Defense. It's scary, man.
Total cowards, who will gleefully send us off to war or give massive benefits to large corporations, but who hide and run away from every major social and political point their voters want them to make. If I were them, instead of cowering and virtue signing so they don't come after me, i'd ask em every day why they fail to disavow antifa violence, doesnt this mean you support antifa violence, cant we all agree all violence is wrong, why are you selective in your dislike of violence. What do they actually understand about young conservatives? Nothing. One of the running themes of new right people is the need to purge these type from the party leadership, and I couldn't agree more.
So, uh, I'd agree as a bernie style liberal, with the disappointment in Republicans and even Democrats in the rush to war, the rush to foreign interventions is generally wrong. Also with the giant corporate tax breaks and giveaways. A waste of money and lives and effort to benefit corporations. I don't feel there should NEVER be foreign intervention but most of it seems a deliberate waste.
Violence is wrong but it's not to the point where you have to denounce that antiffa there's no charlottsville event. If they actually killed someone and injured 19 more then sure you easily should say this group is wrong here, as Trump SHOULD HAVE DONE about the neo-nazis. I don't really see them as being much of a thing never really heard of them or anything they've done, just a blown up boogeyman from the Right.
What social and political points are Conservatives not getting done for you?
Some second-league politicians of polish ruling party apparently want to demand war reparations from Germany for WW2. Of course, that would be nigh impossible, as government of Polish People's Republic (or PRL; communist predecessor of our current Republic) resigned from them in treaty with Germany in 1953. It's upsetting and there are two reasons of this. First, it shows dangerous attitude: some fractions of my government seems to question succession of states between PRL and Polish Republic (III RP, as we call it). The only other political force I know that did the same were bolsheviks (!). There are hundreds of treaties signed by PRL, than are in force today. Our state is paying rent for people who retired in the last days of PRL, so if government thinks there is no succession, then why pay it? I *hope* it's just political show-off, but once again - there are *still* strong anti-german attitudes in Poland and only recent years made image of Germans better in eyes of Poles. It can easily, however, return to "usual", hostile state of things. Polish people love to whine about how other nations treated us bad. Other thing - I have no idea why demand reparations from Germany, but not from Russia. It wouldn't worry me if not for rumors of strong Russian influence over polish Ministry of Defense. It's scary, man.
One reason they won't ask for reparations from Russia is that there isn't a chance in Hell that Russia would pay it! Guilting Germany into paying is at least plausible...
@Grond0 If I'm coming across as painting the two as strictly equal, then I'm utterly failing to communicate here.
Let me try again. The North is praised FAR MORE than it deserves. The South is also demonized FAR MORE than it deserves. Are they equal? no. Are current attitudes about them unhealthy because of promoting blanket demonization because of political lines, or near worship for the same reason? Yes, or at least, that is what I'm trying to say.
Yikes....Trump is now invoking Southern "culture" and the "beauty" of the Confederate monuments. He is now practically begging for more of these incidents to occur. Whatever you think of the monuments (opinions vary here) I think it might be reasonable to say that this is NOT the time for the President of the United States to be explicitly coming down on the side of the cause the white supremacist protesters were, ostensibly, marching for on Saturday. More people are going to die. I think he is counting on it.
Of course he is, Russia is no longer in the conversation. I wouldn't be surprised if one of his advisers back handled the rally to get Russia out of news.
These rallies, as repulsive as they are, have no bearing on National Politics or policies. Everything being discussed, such as removal or monuments is state/county/municipality level.
Yikes....Trump is now invoking Southern "culture" and the "beauty" of the Confederate monuments. He is now practically begging for more of these incidents to occur. Whatever you think of the monuments (opinions vary here) I think it might be reasonable to say that this is NOT the time for the President of the United States to be explicitly coming down on the side of the cause the white supremacist protesters were, ostensibly, marching for on Saturday. More people are going to die. I think he is counting on it.
I'll echo what @Stormvessel said. If Southern culture is represented by these stautes of Confederate Generals, and it is so fragile that it will fall apart without them, then what the hell does that say about Southern culture?? If that much of the identity of the South is placed in honorary monuments to a disgraced cause, we have real problems.
Yes, the pres has emboldened many hate groups. A pres giving just the tiniest support makes these folks feel like they can finally come out the closet, he is throwin gas on the fire. Agreed. But Southern Culture is not represented by statues, and it is certainly not all bad. This does not represent all of us here, not even the majority. It will not fall apart. I grew up hearing, and still hear, the term Yankee used as a derogatory term. Racism still abounds here more than anywhere else. Yes, I sat in class next to people with family in the KKK, even some with 'Wizards' among their number. My folks often took us on field trips, out of school to visit many a Revolutionary and Civil War site or battlefield, as well as many American Indian sites, Cherokee mostly. We were not there to glorify anything, but told to think and reflect on things as a learning opportunity. I'd hate to see that go, but if people want to fight about it, then do whatever to keep them from fighting. I always, and still, get more emotion out of those visits than ANY museum or book. That said, I can understand both sides I think. Heck, I want Jackson off the $20 bill. What a piece o work he was. I think the Cherokee Junaluska, born a couple counties over from me, was right to say what he thought of saving that's dudes life. And now half the reservation is in a county that had to be named after Jackson?
This was by far the most divisive war this country has ever seen, and even after 150 yrs we have not resolved many of the issues, just swept them under the rug. In a way, I am glad to see it finally all come out, but at the same time, I am sick and tired of all the hatred.
But I'll admit, even being in conflict management, I sometimes want to hang up that hat and put a hat of a much different color. I often feel like taking up arms against these hate groups. Killing and hate breed more of the same though, I know. They are an embarrassment to many here in the south, a reminder of terrible things in the past, of my direct ancestors even, written on paper even down to the very names of owned slaves passed on in legal wills. They're not helping things, and neither is the pres. I think there has been enough killing, but unfortunately, there is going to be more. It may yet be the time for negotiation has ended, the fire is already roaring hot. Many I think have their BATNA fixed in their mind, and that best alternative solution ends with death or destruction. -------- But as to real problems, yes, they exist, they always did here. I am surprised really to know many in the media and those interviewed by media did not know this already. Reading a book is not the same as living it I reckon though. There is much that war didn't solve and I don't know how long it will take to solve.
The mistake is to look at a war like this and just say get over it people, it's over. It doesn't happen like that, not by a long shot. I am just guessing but I think that at least some in Europe would agree with this last statement. Maybe not though, I wasn't there. I don't know how long it takes, I grew up with it my whole life, born 100yrs after the war. To tell the truth, I don't think that damn war has ever ended. At least not here, in one way or another.
I'm a Southerner, yes, but all is not bad in my culture. To hear otherwise is a bit inflaming TBH. Blanket statements don't help. As someone in a position to help, that grew up around much of the problem and despises it, that understands some of both sides and resolving conflict on a graduate level, this country needs my help, not my ire.
Yikes....Trump is now invoking Southern "culture" and the "beauty" of the Confederate monuments. He is now practically begging for more of these incidents to occur. Whatever you think of the monuments (opinions vary here) I think it might be reasonable to say that this is NOT the time for the President of the United States to be explicitly coming down on the side of the cause the white supremacist protesters were, ostensibly, marching for on Saturday. More people are going to die. I think he is counting on it.
I'll echo what @Stormvessel said. If Southern culture is represented by these stautes of Confederate Generals, and it is so fragile that it will fall apart without them, then what the hell does that say about Southern culture?? If that much of the identity of the South is placed in honorary monuments to a disgraced cause, we have real problems.
Yes, the pres has emboldened many hate groups. A pres giving just the tiniest support makes these folks feel like they can finally come out the closet, he is throwin gas on the fire. Agreed. But Southern Culture is not represented by statues, and it is certainly not all bad. This does not represent all of us here, not even the majority. It will not fall apart. I grew up hearing, and still hear, the term Yankee used as a derogatory term. Racism still abounds here more than anywhere else. Yes, I sat in class next to people with family in the KKK, even some with 'Wizards' among their number. My folks often took us on field trips, out of school to visit many a Revolutionary and Civil War site or battlefield, as well as many American Indian sites, Cherokee mostly. We were not there to glorify anything, but told to think and reflect on things as a learning opportunity. I'd hate to see that go, but if people want to fight about it, then do whatever to keep them from fighting. I always, and still, get more emotion out of those visits than ANY museum or book. That said, I can understand both sides I think. Heck, I want Jackson off the $20 bill. What a piece o work he was. I think the Cherokee Junaluska, born a couple counties over from me, was right to say what he thought of saving that's dudes life. And now half the reservation is in a county that had to be named after Jackson?
This was by far the most divisive war this country has ever seen, and even after 150 yrs we have not resolved many of the issues, just swept them under the rug. In a way, I am glad to see it finally all come out, but at the same time, I am sick and tired of all the hatred.
But I'll admit, even being in conflict management, I sometimes want to hang up that hat and put a hat of a much different color. I often feel like taking up arms against these hate groups. Killing and hate breed more of the same though, I know. They are an embarrassment to many here in the south, a reminder of terrible things in the past, of my direct ancestors even, written on paper even down to the very names of owned slaves passed on in legal wills. They're not helping things, and neither is the pres. I think there has been enough killing, but unfortunately, there is going to be more. It may yet be the time for negotiation has ended, the fire is already roaring hot. Many I think have their BATNA fixed in their mind, and that best alternative solution ends with death or destruction. -------- But as to real problems, yes, they exist, they always did here. I am surprised really to know many in the media and those interviewed by media did not know this already. Reading a book is not the same as living it I reckon though. There is much that war didn't solve and I don't know how long it will take to solve.
The mistake is to look at a war like this and just say get over it people, it's over. It doesn't happen like that, not by a long shot. I am just guessing but I think that at least some in Europe would agree with this last statement. Maybe not though, I wasn't there. I don't know how long it takes, I grew up with it my whole life, born 100yrs after the war. To tell the truth, I don't think that damn war has ever ended. At least not here, in one way or another.
I'm a Southerner, yes, but all is not bad in my culture. To hear otherwise is a bit inflaming TBH. Blanket statements don't help. As someone in a position to help, that grew up around much of the problem and despises it, that understands some of both sides and resolving conflict on a graduate level, this country needs my help, not my ire.
To be clear, the question was mostly hypothetical and/or rhetorical. IF someone thinks these statues are at the heart of Southern culture and pride, then that person has reduced Southern culture to the Confederacy.
It is the same question I ask relgious people who think they are ordained to dispense God's punishment. If your God is so mighty and all powerful, why would he need YOU to do his work for him??
Same applies here. If Southern culture is the rich tapestry I'm sure it is in many respects, surely it can survive the removal of statues that pay homage to the worst parts of it's history. If not, then the legacy of slavery will continue to remain tied to the South, on a macro level. By all means, keep the statues. But if the statues are kept, Southerners (again, on a macro level) cannot fall to the fainting couch when their culture is accused of not coming to terms with what happened in the past. It's one or the other.
African-Americans have learned to grin and bear alot in this country, but if people don't think they are profoundly upset by the fact that they have to send their child to a school named after Robert E. Lee or have their children play in a park with a statue of Stonewall Jackson, then people are sadly, sadly mistaken.
blanket demonization because of political lines, or near worship for the same reason.
This is an attitude far too common in modern politics in general, and I agree it's unhealthy in political discourse.
What it leads to is both sides never trusting the other side about anything. Then dialogue is effectively impossible.
The establishment of good faith is important.
What social and political points are Conservatives not getting done for you?
Liberals, and i'm saying this with grudging respect, hammer their own story of political events down everyones throat. They get their message out very well. Every Republican has to respond to every event that can be remotely linked to them in any sort of fashion. They are caught in defense mode 90% of the time, having to explain why they aren't this or that label that the left has given to them.
The Right fails at holding the left accountable for anything, which is a bad thing for the country as a whole. It lets them get away with promoting violence. Even against fringe groups with awful beliefs, thats still a moral and legal issue. Are communists really much better anyway? The Obama Memo was clearly a surprise to many in this group. If Republicans weren't such losers at communication that never would have been the case. People would have been at least aware, probably quite surprised, and we would have had the national conversation about whether or not that sort of thing is okay, the Democrats would have been forced to respond, etc. Have you ever heard of Awan? If you haven't, it's proof of how bad Republicans suck. They prevent many important conversations from coming to the fore with such cowardice, and it should be their place to do so, given that they should be policing the other side and vice versa.
Whether you take my side on issues or not, internet dudes like me shouldn't be leading the conversation and covering the slack for incompetent politicians more concerned with protecting their own image from Mean Words then standing up for any sort of principles. They just don't share the same priorities as their younger voters at all. Caught in a different time.
I would have said the anti gay marriage stuff was a problem years ago, but I just don't see the remote possibility of it being under threat under this admin and I think thats gonna shift the Overton Window in the party away from it after 4-8 years. It was clearly not an important issue this election and I doubt it ever will be again imo. Its crazy how attitudes shifted. Both parties were against it just 8 years ago.
@jjstraka34 Agreed. Like I said, if removing some statue is important to peace, then do what must be done to do so. We don't need another place to bring out as much hatred as has been shown. At least some of the larger sites I have thought, can be powerful reminders and 'teachers', in a sense. Maybe not. What do folks here think?
@jjstraka34 Agreed. Like I said, if removing some statue is important to peace, then do what must be done to do so. We don't need another place to bring out as much hatred as has been shown. At least some of the larger sites I have thought, can be powerful reminders and 'teachers', in a sense. Maybe not. What do folks here think?
The side-show issue of them ostensibly guarding the honor of a statue is far less important than the fact that THIS took place:
Lawd... their definitely off the chain (unfortunately), but I also know they have not yet cut loose in full (fortunately). I think the guarding is just a focal point still. ------ I have been thinking, if this anger inflates like I think it will, after a while the statues will no longer be the focal points for the anger, even after we take them down. I believe sooner rather than later, people themselves will take on those points as targets, and on a more regular basis.
It is easier for some to take up violence against people (these suckas above) rather than an object, often because of propaganda (a tool). For others though, due to a different type of 'tool', an object is more likely to get the focus of their rage. But when enraged enough, many of those same people will then turn it on other people. That's where I see this going.
Who does historical destruction better? ISIS or Vice?
Those egyptian pyramids, man...they were literally built by slaves dontchaknow. I think its time those racist things went down. Its literally 2017 and we still have such monuments to hatred smh
Who does historical destruction better? ISIS or Vice?
Those egyptian pyramids, man...they were literally built by slaves dontchaknow. I think its time those racist things went down. Its literally 2017 and we still have such monuments to hatred smh
That headline is not real. I just visited and read the actual piece, here it is:
Who does historical destruction better? ISIS or Vice?
Those egyptian pyramids, man...they were literally built by slaves dontchaknow. I think its time those racist things went down. Its literally 2017 and we still have such monuments to hatred smh
That headline is not real. I just visited and read the actual piece, and whoever posted that deliberately altered it.
I actually saw the (deleted) tweet from Vice for myself, but regardless, the use of "blow up" or "get rid of" is a distinction without a difference.
Who does historical destruction better? ISIS or Vice?
Those egyptian pyramids, man...they were literally built by slaves dontchaknow. I think its time those racist things went down. Its literally 2017 and we still have such monuments to hatred smh
That headline is not real. I just visited and read the actual piece, and whoever posted that deliberately altered it.
I actually saw the (deleted) tweet from Vice for myself, but regardless, the use of "blow up" or "get rid of" is a distinction without a difference.
The article is pretty nuanced actually, it basically argues that NO American is flawless enough to deserve being etched in stone on the side of a mountain. Read it, you might actually like it.
Why is it always assumed I don't read. It's the same self hating identity caste system stuff it always is. Obsessed with race and gender.
"More than ever, old monuments to famous white American men are being threatened in the name of progress"
"George Washington's phallus towering over everything in DC"
"I have love for Obama as a black man"
What. On. Earth.
You cannot pull those quotes out and leave them there like that. Stripping them from the whole context of the article is totally unfair. If I remember correctly, the very next words after "I have love for Obama as a black man" are "but I don't need to see his face on the side of a mountain." The article is a hypothetical question": if Mt. Rushmore was blown up (based on the Daily Caller headline), who should we replace the 4 men on it with?? The answer he gives is....nobody. Come on, you know that is what the article was saying, you have to.....
I can pretty much guarantee this: that headline, utterly devoid of context, is going to BLANKET right-wing media in the next few days. I would bet a large amount of money FOX News is working on segments right now that involve flashing the name of the article and saying nothing else about it.
One reason they won't ask for reparations from Russia is that there isn't a chance in Hell that Russia would pay it! Guilting Germany into paying is at least plausible...
@Balrog99 - it is plausible, but there are many treaties and petrify current geopolitical map, and I am glad for that. But I hope you are right that this is their thinking. I'm taking cold calculation over high treason every time.
Btw, it baffles me that left and right are "upside down" in Poland, when you compare it to US. In my country it's right that demands removing statues of former regime, and left defends them. In here strongly right-wind Parliament actually enacted law that drastically lowers old age pensions of secret agents and policemen who served under communist regime, so debate it's pretty heated. I'm not saying who is right or wrong on this matter in US, it's just curious how things are different.
@Artona - My high school history teacher gave us an explanation for this. He said if you look at the political spectrum like a semi-circle rather than a line, the far left and far right would almost touch. Sounds just as good now as it did in 1983...
I actually pretty much agree with Cooper's article. And like him, I probably would be on board. Transmogrified, sounds about right. Huh. They did have to think twice though. (At the bottom of the article) "Editor's note: The headline and URL of this story have been updated. We do not condone violence in any shape or form, and the use of "blow up" in the original headline as a rhetorical device was misguided and insensitive. We apologize for the error".
Looks like maybe they realized how a title like that could be used against them
I actually pretty much agree with Cooper's article. And like him, I probably would be on board. Transmogrified, sounds about right. Huh. They did have to think twice though. (At the bottom of the article) "Editor's note: The headline and URL of this story have been updated. We do not condone violence in any shape or form, and the use of "blow up" in the original headline as a rhetorical device was misguided and insensitive. We apologize for the error".
Looks like maybe they realized how a title like that could be used against them
I check out Vice at times, and when they are being serious, they are pretty solid. (I liked their women's issues coverage especially) However, I could see them totally throwing a headline like that out there for clickbaiting, and retracting after it works.
@Balrog99 we were taught the 4 way diagram, so you had the Authoritarian up side (Lawful), the Libertarian down side (Chaotic), the Centre (True Neutral), the Left (Good), and the Right (...). Mostly this was used with personality/beliefs tests to see how much of each you possess, to place you in the right location in the box. As an example, Stalin and Hitler were both heavily authoritarian, and thus very similar despite one being far right and the other far left.
This probably is needed as Canada has a non-bipolar political system.
The flag of our nation's mortal enemy, responsible for the death of as many Americans as all other wars we've ever been in COMBINED. Let that one sink in. And the flag of that enemy is often found flying next to the star-spangled banner on US property.
The people defending confederate symbolism under the guise of a "neutral recognition" of history are refusing to recognize an obvious truth: there hasn't been a single statue erected nor a single flag hoisted under any such context. No, they were put there for one reason and one reason only: total glorification. And they know this.
To hell with southern culture and symbolism - they represent the very social apparatus used to delude those boys into throwing their lives away for the cause of human bondage.
But what about the American social apparatus? From the history of the world, the rich have deluded the poor into doing their bidding and sending their sons off to die. Sadly, this is true for our country as well, both historically and even in the present day. Things like race, ethnicity, culture, religion, and other various abstractions are used to exploit people. The truth is that we are living in a society where the productive members of society, the working class, are the victims of social engineering by the bourgeoisie.
Democrats and republicans, entrenched bureaucrats and MSM, all work together to keep us divided and at each other's throats. The left hand poisons minorities with identity politics, while the right hand fills the white majority with reactionism. Trump is polarizing us further...the ruling class is winning.
We need a mass-movement, people. A united, multi-racial movement that can appeal to the commonality in all of us. A coast to coast political movement...a revolution. To create our own history as it happens, with a new heritage, new culture, new symbolism...for all of us. No more should those who grow fat on the toil of others be tolerated. Social injustice must be rectified, and the people themselves must lead it.
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That hasn't happened before. They've always found SOMEONE batshit crazy enough to support him. Yeah, I'm a bit resigned to it myself. Far more towards Democrat, but I'm not so pro-megacorp as the modern Democrat party. I'd say maybe 80% Democrat, 30% Republican, in terms of values.
At present the Green party is probably like 95-98% my values. Vice News got my respect when they were airing footage of their correspondents in LITERAL war zones in Syria and Iraq. No BS sanitation by News anchors that you stare at for 80% of the time with 10% correspondents and 10% actual footage. Actual footage of talking to people imprisoned (temporarily) for being ISIS suspects, of following the military in buildings, and near actual firefights.
The sort of thing CNN seemed like about 30 years ago. I think I'm going to call it being an invocation of the 25th amendment, section 4. Literally all it takes is Mike Pence and half+1 of the executive officers writing to Congress saying that Trump is unhinged and unfit, and then Pence becomes acting president. That seems FAR more likely than impeachment proceedings, especially after the last 5 days, it is an easier bar to clear, and is far more politically easy to swallow than having to man up with the opposing party to take down an unhinged President.
Republicans could even spin it as "Honestly, we didn't know he'd be THAT bad, he didn't tell US all that stuff, that was ALL HIM. But look, we'll admit it, we screwed up, but we're RESPONSIBLE and kicked him to the curb. And oh hey, look at our shiny ultraconservative Republican of Christian values Acting President."
Given the balance of the reaction over the last few days I think that may have been a mis-calculation on their part ...
Came accross something interesting in my new feed. While Antifa did hit a few journalists, it's all justified man, they were perpetuating rape culture.
It's not new that Republicans won't take Trump's side, I expected this pattern the moment FOX News went full Anti Trump in a way i'd never seen during the election. I get why. He's not a "real conservative", not as they define it anyway. And they do not have and never have had the balls to say what they mean and mean what they say. Too afraid of bad coverage from a perpetually dishonest press.
Trump's right, there was violence on both sides, that GOP cuckservatives are too timid and cowardly to say that, knowing it will be deliberately taken out of context to be evidence some sort of nazi sympathy, or worse yet being ignorant enough to not know, is one of the great failings of the GOP. Total cowards, who will gleefully send us off to war or give massive benefits to large corporations, but who hide and run away from every major social and political point their voters want them to make. If I were them, instead of cowering and virtue signing so they don't come after me, i'd ask em every day why they fail to disavow antifa violence, doesnt this mean you support antifa violence, cant we all agree all violence is wrong, why are you selective in your dislike of violence. What do they actually understand about young conservatives? Nothing. One of the running themes of new right people is the need to purge these type from the party leadership, and I couldn't agree more.
I'll echo what @Stormvessel said. If Southern culture is represented by these stautes of Confederate Generals, and it is so fragile that it will fall apart without them, then what the hell does that say about Southern culture?? If that much of the identity of the South is placed in honorary monuments to a disgraced cause, we have real problems.
It's upsetting and there are two reasons of this. First, it shows dangerous attitude: some fractions of my government seems to question succession of states between PRL and Polish Republic (III RP, as we call it). The only other political force I know that did the same were bolsheviks (!). There are hundreds of treaties signed by PRL, than are in force today. Our state is paying rent for people who retired in the last days of PRL, so if government thinks there is no succession, then why pay it? I *hope* it's just political show-off, but once again - there are *still* strong anti-german attitudes in Poland and only recent years made image of Germans better in eyes of Poles. It can easily, however, return to "usual", hostile state of things. Polish people love to whine about how other nations treated us bad.
Other thing - I have no idea why demand reparations from Germany, but not from Russia. It wouldn't worry me if not for rumors of strong Russian influence over polish Ministry of Defense.
It's scary, man.
Violence is wrong but it's not to the point where you have to denounce that antiffa there's no charlottsville event. If they actually killed someone and injured 19 more then sure you easily should say this group is wrong here, as Trump SHOULD HAVE DONE about the neo-nazis. I don't really see them as being much of a thing never really heard of them or anything they've done, just a blown up boogeyman from the Right.
What social and political points are Conservatives not getting done for you?
Let me try again. The North is praised FAR MORE than it deserves. The South is also demonized FAR MORE than it deserves. Are they equal? no. Are current attitudes about them unhealthy because of promoting blanket demonization because of political lines, or near worship for the same reason? Yes, or at least, that is what I'm trying to say.
These rallies, as repulsive as they are, have no bearing on National Politics or policies. Everything being discussed, such as removal or monuments is state/county/municipality level.
Agreed.
But Southern Culture is not represented by statues, and it is certainly not all bad. This does not represent all of us here, not even the majority. It will not fall apart.
I grew up hearing, and still hear, the term Yankee used as a derogatory term. Racism still abounds here more than anywhere else. Yes, I sat in class next to people with family in the KKK, even some with 'Wizards' among their number.
My folks often took us on field trips, out of school to visit many a Revolutionary and Civil War site or battlefield, as well as many American Indian sites, Cherokee mostly. We were not there to glorify anything, but told to think and reflect on things as a learning opportunity. I'd hate to see that go, but if people want to fight about it, then do whatever to keep them from fighting. I always, and still, get more emotion out of those visits than ANY museum or book.
That said, I can understand both sides I think. Heck, I want Jackson off the $20 bill. What a piece o work he was. I think the Cherokee Junaluska, born a couple counties over from me, was right to say what he thought of saving that's dudes life. And now half the reservation is in a county that had to be named after Jackson?
This was by far the most divisive war this country has ever seen, and even after 150 yrs we have not resolved many of the issues, just swept them under the rug. In a way, I am glad to see it finally all come out, but at the same time, I am sick and tired of all the hatred.
But I'll admit, even being in conflict management, I sometimes want to hang up that hat and put a hat of a much different color. I often feel like taking up arms against these hate groups. Killing and hate breed more of the same though, I know. They are an embarrassment to many here in the south, a reminder of terrible things in the past, of my direct ancestors even, written on paper even down to the very names of owned slaves passed on in legal wills. They're not helping things, and neither is the pres.
I think there has been enough killing, but unfortunately, there is going to be more. It may yet be the time for negotiation has ended, the fire is already roaring hot. Many I think have their BATNA fixed in their mind, and that best alternative solution ends with death or destruction.
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But as to real problems, yes, they exist, they always did here. I am surprised really to know many in the media and those interviewed by media did not know this already. Reading a book is not the same as living it I reckon though.
There is much that war didn't solve and I don't know how long it will take to solve.
The mistake is to look at a war like this and just say get over it people, it's over. It doesn't happen like that, not by a long shot.
I am just guessing but I think that at least some in Europe would agree with this last statement. Maybe not though, I wasn't there.
I don't know how long it takes, I grew up with it my whole life, born 100yrs after the war.
To tell the truth, I don't think that damn war has ever ended.
At least not here, in one way or another.
I'm a Southerner, yes, but all is not bad in my culture. To hear otherwise is a bit inflaming TBH. Blanket statements don't help. As someone in a position to help, that grew up around much of the problem and despises it, that understands some of both sides and resolving conflict on a graduate level, this country needs my help, not my ire.
It is the same question I ask relgious people who think they are ordained to dispense God's punishment. If your God is so mighty and all powerful, why would he need YOU to do his work for him??
Same applies here. If Southern culture is the rich tapestry I'm sure it is in many respects, surely it can survive the removal of statues that pay homage to the worst parts of it's history. If not, then the legacy of slavery will continue to remain tied to the South, on a macro level. By all means, keep the statues. But if the statues are kept, Southerners (again, on a macro level) cannot fall to the fainting couch when their culture is accused of not coming to terms with what happened in the past. It's one or the other.
African-Americans have learned to grin and bear alot in this country, but if people don't think they are profoundly upset by the fact that they have to send their child to a school named after Robert E. Lee or have their children play in a park with a statue of Stonewall Jackson, then people are sadly, sadly mistaken.
What it leads to is both sides never trusting the other side about anything. Then dialogue is effectively impossible.
The establishment of good faith is important.
Liberals, and i'm saying this with grudging respect, hammer their own story of political events down everyones throat. They get their message out very well. Every Republican has to respond to every event that can be remotely linked to them in any sort of fashion. They are caught in defense mode 90% of the time, having to explain why they aren't this or that label that the left has given to them.
The Right fails at holding the left accountable for anything, which is a bad thing for the country as a whole. It lets them get away with promoting violence. Even against fringe groups with awful beliefs, thats still a moral and legal issue. Are communists really much better anyway? The Obama Memo was clearly a surprise to many in this group. If Republicans weren't such losers at communication that never would have been the case. People would have been at least aware, probably quite surprised, and we would have had the national conversation about whether or not that sort of thing is okay, the Democrats would have been forced to respond, etc. Have you ever heard of Awan? If you haven't, it's proof of how bad Republicans suck. They prevent many important conversations from coming to the fore with such cowardice, and it should be their place to do so, given that they should be policing the other side and vice versa.
Whether you take my side on issues or not, internet dudes like me shouldn't be leading the conversation and covering the slack for incompetent politicians more concerned with protecting their own image from Mean Words then standing up for any sort of principles. They just don't share the same priorities as their younger voters at all. Caught in a different time.
Maybe not. What do folks here think?
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I have been thinking, if this anger inflates like I think it will, after a while the statues will no longer be the focal points for the anger, even after we take them down. I believe sooner rather than later, people themselves will take on those points as targets, and on a more regular basis.
It is easier for some to take up violence against people (these suckas above) rather than an object, often because of propaganda (a tool). For others though, due to a different type of 'tool', an object is more likely to get the focus of their rage. But when enraged enough, many of those same people will then turn it on other people. That's where I see this going.
Those egyptian pyramids, man...they were literally built by slaves dontchaknow. I think its time those racist things went down. Its literally 2017 and we still have such monuments to hatred smh
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kkkby/lets-get-rid-of-mount-rushmore
The "let's blow up" part is a quote from a Daily Caller headline.
"More than ever, old monuments to famous white American men are being threatened in the name of progress"
"George Washington's phallus towering over everything in DC"
"I have love for Obama as a black man"
What. On. Earth.
I can pretty much guarantee this: that headline, utterly devoid of context, is going to BLANKET right-wing media in the next few days. I would bet a large amount of money FOX News is working on segments right now that involve flashing the name of the article and saying nothing else about it.
@Balrog99 - it is plausible, but there are many treaties and petrify current geopolitical map, and I am glad for that.
But I hope you are right that this is their thinking. I'm taking cold calculation over high treason every time.
Btw, it baffles me that left and right are "upside down" in Poland, when you compare it to US. In my country it's right that demands removing statues of former regime, and left defends them. In here strongly right-wind Parliament actually enacted law that drastically lowers old age pensions of secret agents and policemen who served under communist regime, so debate it's pretty heated.
I'm not saying who is right or wrong on this matter in US, it's just curious how things are different.
Huh. They did have to think twice though.
(At the bottom of the article)
"Editor's note: The headline and URL of this story have been updated. We do not condone violence in any shape or form, and the use of "blow up" in the original headline as a rhetorical device was misguided and insensitive. We apologize for the error".
Looks like maybe they realized how a title like that could be used against them
@Balrog99 we were taught the 4 way diagram, so you had the Authoritarian up side (Lawful), the Libertarian down side (Chaotic), the Centre (True Neutral), the Left (Good), and the Right (...). Mostly this was used with personality/beliefs tests to see how much of each you possess, to place you in the right location in the box. As an example, Stalin and Hitler were both heavily authoritarian, and thus very similar despite one being far right and the other far left.
This probably is needed as Canada has a non-bipolar political system.
ISIS literally blew up historical sites.
With, like, bombs.
The people defending confederate symbolism under the guise of a "neutral recognition" of history are refusing to recognize an obvious truth: there hasn't been a single statue erected nor a single flag hoisted under any such context. No, they were put there for one reason and one reason only: total glorification. And they know this.
To hell with southern culture and symbolism - they represent the very social apparatus used to delude those boys into throwing their lives away for the cause of human bondage.
But what about the American social apparatus? From the history of the world, the rich have deluded the poor into doing their bidding and sending their sons off to die. Sadly, this is true for our country as well, both historically and even in the present day. Things like race, ethnicity, culture, religion, and other various abstractions are used to exploit people. The truth is that we are living in a society where the productive members of society, the working class, are the victims of social engineering by the bourgeoisie.
Democrats and republicans, entrenched bureaucrats and MSM, all work together to keep us divided and at each other's throats. The left hand poisons minorities with identity politics, while the right hand fills the white majority with reactionism. Trump is polarizing us further...the ruling class is winning.
We need a mass-movement, people. A united, multi-racial movement that can appeal to the commonality in all of us. A coast to coast political movement...a revolution. To create our own history as it happens, with a new heritage, new culture, new symbolism...for all of us. No more should those who grow fat on the toil of others be tolerated. Social injustice must be rectified, and the people themselves must lead it.
Supported by facts and figures, not that that will change your mind if your mind is made up.