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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910

    That's not really a good response to it though, because the Wager is looking at the theism question from a pragmatic point of view, one of self interest rather than empiricism. Given the question is an open one with no definitive answer either way and no clear path to obtaining such an answer looking at it from the perspective of which choice is most useful to us isn't without merit. I wouldn't really consider myself a religious person but I see where that argument is coming from.

    Well, Voltaire was criticizing both the self interest part and the lack of empiricism there. He also pointed out that you won't get far by being a believer out of self interest. So I'd say that's more his point: that being pragmatic and going for your self interest doesn't necessarily work in your benefit. In Pascal's case nothing will really change, whatever choice you make.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,653
    edited November 2017

    CamDawg said:

    This occurred to me last night.

    Last week, Senator (and former presidential candidate) Rand Paul was beaten by a neighbor so severely that he has six broken ribs.

    And it wasn't even a blip on the news with everything else going on.

    I feel for Rand, he has been witness to a lot of violence lately. He was at the Scalise shooting, then deals with a politically motivated attack at his own home. I have points of disagreement with Rand but him and his father have always struck me as principled, good people who stuck to what they believe in.

    Here's more if anyone wants to read about it.

    http://www.wnky.com/story/36764458/senator-paul-assaulted-at-home-in-bowling-green

    I don't see any presented evidence yet that it was politically motivated until either Rand Paul or the assailant tell us so or admit to it. Considering they were literally next door neighbors in a gated community, it seems just as likely it could have been a dispute over each other's lawns.
    Well it does say that is the opinion of the FBI so it is a reasonable current assumption but of course things won't be totally known until all is said and done at trial.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    CamDawg said:

    This occurred to me last night.

    Last week, Senator (and former presidential candidate) Rand Paul was beaten by a neighbor so severely that he has six broken ribs.

    And it wasn't even a blip on the news with everything else going on.

    I feel for Rand, he has been witness to a lot of violence lately. He was at the Scalise shooting, then deals with a politically motivated attack at his own home. I have points of disagreement with Rand but him and his father have always struck me as principled, good people who stuck to what they believe in.

    Here's more if anyone wants to read about it.

    http://www.wnky.com/story/36764458/senator-paul-assaulted-at-home-in-bowling-green

    I don't see any presented evidence yet that it was politically motivated until either Rand Paul or the assailant tell us so or admit to it. Considering they were literally next door neighbors in a gated community, it seems just as likely it could have been a dispute over each other's lawns.
    Well it does say that is the opinion of the FBI so it is a reasonable current assumption but of course things won't be totally known until all is said and done at trial.
    The Dr. that did this needs to serve serious jail-time, but will likely get off pretty light because he has access to money and a good attorney. I can't stand Rand Paul, but this kind of thing can't be tolerated.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2017
    The responses and defenses of Roy Moore from the Alabama State GOP are starting to freak me out. State Rep. Ed Henry is literally suggesting that if the allegations ARE true, then the VICTIMS should have charges filed against them for failing to report them for all these years. Yes, I had to read it twice as well, you aren't crazy. I have seen victim blaming, but this is moving into the realm of turning victims into CRIMINALS, which is something the Taliban does.

    Moreover, Moore's brother is quoted as saying the accusers will "have to answer to God" and that his brother is being persecuted "like Jesus Christ was". The defense of this man reminds me of a cult, not a political party. This is insane.

    The story isn't just sourced with the statements of the victims. In the case of the 14-year old, they have two of her friends on the record who attest that she told them of these incidents BACK THEN. So to come to the conclusion this woman is making this story up, you have to believe one of three things:

    1.) That she concocted a plan at the age of 14 and planted false stories with her friends in the 1970s anticipating the moment in 2017 when Roy Moore would run for Senate and could spring these charges on him.

    2.) She has access to a time machine

    3.) She has discovered the magical talent of divination.

    And I wouldn't put it past a significant portion of the Alabama electorate to believe the last one. If you want some insight into how a Southern town can become consumed by the idea of religious and superstitious mumbo-jumbo, and how it can be used to ruin three lives, I urge you to look into the case of the West Memphis Three.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited November 2017
    That's what all these statements from GOP leaders 'these allegations "if true" he should drop out'.

    Just enough wiggle room to not say anything at all.

    As far as I'm concerned Roy Moore is like American Taliban wanting to implement Christian sharia law. The only law he wants to follow and impose on others is his radical interpretation of the bible but altered to suit to his bigoted whims and prejudices. He was kicked off the Alabama Supreme Court twice because of his disdain for Law.

    Put enough Roy Moores in power and we'll be stoning people who don't go to church and forbidding women from driving.

    These fundamentalist lawmakers will inevitably be having contests as to who is interpreting the bible the strictest.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    edited November 2017
    Meanwhile in the rest of the World:

    11 countries salvaged the TPP that Trump pulled out of.

    Canada (Trudeau) was dragging their feet on it, not knowing how this deal would effect their NAFTA talks. There was a slight change of heart after the international media went after Trudeau and agreed on the "core elements" of the deal.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited November 2017
    Trump nominated a guy for a Federal Judgeship who was unanimously declared unqualified by the American Bar Association's Judicial Committee. This guy has never tried a case. This guy's previous job experience was blogging angry stuff on the Internet about “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

    This 36 year old was approved by Republicans in the Senate for a lifetime appointment as a Federal Judge in Alabama.

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-judge-20171110-story.html
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    From that article it's Argument number 3 that bothers me in that it "allows corporations to sue foreign governments", thus allowing corporations to effectively dictate domestic policy to foreign governments - why bother paying lobbyists when you can just threaten to sue an entire country?
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,395
    I'm not against the idea in principle that corporations can sue governments (they can already seek judicial review of decisions anyway). I suspect that there are many Americans who are against the idea of TPP that also believe the government should not be able to unreasonably dictate to them - why then should it be able to do so to corporations?

    I agree there is a potential concern here, but I think it's right that governments should have to justify their decisions (I think a public impact review is already a requirement for US legislation - it certainly is in the UK). Where there is good evidence in favor of decisions (such as restrictions on tobacco advertising for instance) I don't see there is any more prospect for corporations getting a settlement through arbitration than blocking such regulations through the existing judicial process (which they constantly try and fail to do anyway).
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    I certainly don't believe Congress will save us from multinational corporations. The tax cut plan they are pushing disproportionately transfers wealth to Corporations cutting the Corporate tax rates in half.

    Allowing corporations to sue governments as part of a trade agreement partly cuts out the middlemen. It lessens the need for companies to bribe our politicians.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Yay for closing the wrong window and losing the research that goes with it.

    Anyway, all Free Trade Agreements have a similar clause about Corporations allowed to sue governments that attempt to pass laws that hinder the spirit of the agreement.

    The good thing about TPP is that there is a clause that keeps environmental protection in the forefront and I think has one involving labour and workers rights, negating two issues people have about the appointed tribunal.

    And the concept of the agreement is agreed to. It is now up to the Finance ministers to bring it to their forms of government to have an open discussion about it. If there is a clause that is unagreeable, the appointed minister and their team can go to the other nations to get it rewritten or tweaked so it works for everyone. Of the finance minister can't accomplish that, it is on them and their negotiation skills.

    If it cant be tweaked a government has every right not to accept the deal as presented. That is briefly what happened in the EU Canada Free Trade Agreement.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @deltago: You should be able to recover lost windows using History and lost tabs using CTRL-SHIFT-T. I use Firefox and my drafts are usually saved.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    I'm an idiot and use IE which doesnt save the drafts.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Donald Trump is loyal to no one, will throw anyone under the bus, will attack anyone. He never whispers a negative word about Putin, even throwing American intelligence agencies under the bus, while occupying the office of the Presidency. If a Democratic President made these statements, Republicans would call for them to be investigsted for treason.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2017
    These Hollywood sexual assault/harassment allegations are now going from a large number to being seemingly all-encompassing. In the last 24 hours, you can add Bryan Singer, Richard Dreyfuss, and George Takei to the list.

    It seems that Roy Moore may have zeroed in on one of these girls at her CUSTODY hearing, when she would have been at her most vulnerable. Beyond that, ask yourself this: for all who are over 30, what do you imagine your friends and family would say if you showed up to a dinner party with a high school freshman as a date??
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2017
    This sums up the entire year:

    In the past few hours, conservative commentator Hugh Hewitt made a 100% serious suggestion that the Alabama State Government should CHANGE THE LAW so the election can't go forward until someone can be found to replace Moore on the ballot. He wants to cancel the election so a Democrat can't win. A former aide to Ron Paul said (and I quote), "I'd be fine with a child predator in the Senate so long as it would keep Democrats from stealing this seat. Child molesters are evil, Democrats are even worse."

    This is 30 years of toxicity rapidly reaching it's boiling point. No one is going to argue Democrats have a myriad of problems that are serious and worthy of much concern. But the modern Republican Party has gone off the f*****g deep-end.

    What is his basis and assertion for saying "people will die" because of the Mueller investigation?? Again, he is hopping around Asia attacking his own intelligence community. Methinks he may be, once again, be picking a fight with the wrong people.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903

    A former aide to Ron Paul said (and I quote), "I'd be fine with a child predator in the Senate so long as it would keep Democrats from stealing this seat. Child molesters are evil, Democrats are even worse."

    My dad suggested the other night that there were plenty of people who would vote based on that exact same belief.

    I think he was joking.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2017
    OK, this is absurd. These two people have nukes at their disposal for the love of Christ....
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited November 2017
    Maybe he should just do his job and not try and be friends with Putin and Kim Jong Un and other dictators.

    At the same time maybe stop trying to be enemies with Merkel, Democrats, Intelligence agencies, scientists, and our traditional allies.

    McCain said there's nothing "America First" about believing Putin over American intelligence agencies.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177

    This sums up the entire year:


    In the past few hours, conservative commentator Hugh Hewitt made a 100% serious suggestion that the Alabama State Government should CHANGE THE LAW so the election can't go forward until someone can be found to replace Moore on the ballot. He wants to cancel the election so a Democrat can't win. A former aide to Ron Paul said (and I quote), "I'd be fine with a child predator in the Senate so long as it would keep Democrats from stealing this seat. Child molesters are evil, Democrats are even worse."

    This is 30 years of toxicity rapidly reaching it's boiling point. No one is going to argue Democrats have a myriad of problems that are serious and worthy of much concern. But the modern Republican Party has gone off the f*****g deep-end.

    What is his basis and assertion for saying "people will die" because of the Mueller investigation?? Again, he is hopping around Asia attacking his own intelligence community. Methinks he may be, once again, be picking a fight with the wrong people.
    The 'people will die' point I have also seen in relation to reversing Brexit. It is given a lot of traction on social media by the astroturfing activities of bots/ semi automated accounts- and by people responding to them.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2017
    Watch this video:

    This man owns not only thousands of guns, but also all manner of military weaponry and vehicles. He is also clearly insane. He seems to take a genuine pride and feels giddy pleasure when he is able to present examples of the firearms used in the most famous mass shootings. He doesn't seem particularly phased that his wife was KILLED by a malfunctioning piece of equipment on his property. And he has 4 female mannequins in his basement that he has named and drinks coffee with. The video presents the stat that 3% of the population of this country owns 50% of the guns. Anyone feel safer knowing this guy has more firepower than most small countries??

    Someone in the comments section added a nice little tidbit that illustrates the problem. Despite having enough firepower to level a town, somehow (despite his bravado about shooting trespassers on sight), he managed to have 65 of his guns stolen a few months ago. Most of them haven't been recovered. I would venture to bet that ALL of them are going to end up on the black market. And this is why, at the very least, we need liability insurance for guns. Mostly because no insurance company would ever cover this guy after talking with him for 5 minutes or visiting his property. Every single solitary one of those guns should be insured individually, which (in a sane world) would force him to have them all under lock and key and not just sitting in his garage and house.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,395
    edited November 2017
    I couldn't help but smile at Trump's offer to mediate over the disputed rights in the South China Sea. His assertion that "I'm a very good mediator" reminded me of a passage in one of my favorite books, "Pride & Prejudice". Lady Catherine de Bourgh in that says "There are few people in England, I suppose, who have more true enjoyment of music than myself, or a better natural taste. If I had ever learnt, I should have been a great proficient."

    That's the basis for a long-running joke in my household, so perhaps it won't be funny for others, but I think it illustrates well the temptation for powerful people to believe that simply saying something is enough to make it true.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    There is really no reason to believe the U.S. could mediate the SCS dispute, Trump or no Trump. China simply does not believe we would mediate in good faith; they would expect us to be working against them, trying to steal "their" land rather than helping them make peace with their neighbors.

    China has been asserting greater control of the disputed islands for years now and has faced zero cost for doing so. Their neighbors complain and relations deteriorate, but people at home in China cheer for these tokens assertions of sovereignty (the Chinese people love it when the government acts tough in front of foreigners), so the government keeps doing it. They have no reason to stop.

    The Chinese Communist Party has said that it supports dialogue as a means of resolving these disputes, but it doesn't actually participate in any such talks, nor has it shown any indication that it's willing to make any type of concession on the issue. You can't make the Chinese reach a compromise when the Chinese view compromise as utterly inferior to the status quo.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,395

    There is really no reason to believe the U.S. could mediate the SCS dispute, Trump or no Trump.

    Trump wants to mediate Baldur's Gate mods - what a horrifying thought >:).
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited November 2017
    Well let's see..

    If Trumps totally biased agenda at the UN in favor of one party (Israel), his preference for a pedophile over a Democrat in Alabama, his multiple failed attempts at Obamacare repeal, or his multiple historical business failures and bankruptcies are any indication then he should be given a shot.

    Maybe it'd keep him occupied for a while. Maybe it'd keep him off of Twitter. It might keep him from forking up something else in America for a little bit. No one in the dispute would take him seriously anyway.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    He would probably give the whole Pacific to the Chinese (Hawaii included).
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    Well let's see..

    If Trumps totally biased agenda at the UN in favor of one party (Israel), his preference for a pedophile over a Democrat in Alabama, his multiple failed attempts at Obamacare repeal, or his multiple historical business failures and bankruptcies are any indication then he should be given a shot.

    Maybe it'd keep him occupied for a while. Maybe it'd keep him off of Twitter. It might keep him from forking up something else in America for a little bit. No one in the dispute would take him seriously anyway.

    Nah. He'd use twitter to mediate.

    And i would give him the benefit of the doubt. He is probably as good at mediating as he is at being president.
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