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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    bleusteel said:

    Is there any way Mitch McConnel could refuse to seat Jones? I bet he’s thinking about it.

    Maybe he can just take away Jones's chair. Jones walks into the Capital for the 1st time, looks everywhere for his seat and there's only 99 chairs. Too bad they're such stuffed shirts in the Senate. That would be a pretty funny practical joke!
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    This is where it helps to have a memory of recent political events. In 2009, this exact situation played out. A Republican won a special Election in blue Massachusetts (Scott Brown). Mitch McConnell DEMANDED he be seated before the Obamacare vote (which he was). If Doug Jones isn't in the Senate before the tax bill reconciliation vote, it will be the height of hypocrisy.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964

    This is where it helps to have a memory of recent political events. In 2009, this exact situation played out. A Republican won a special Election in blue Massachusetts (Scott Brown). Mitch McConnell DEMANDED he be seated before the Obamacare vote (which he was). If Doug Jones isn't in the Senate before the tax bill reconciliation vote, it will be the height of hypocrisy.

    That won't stop it from happening
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Hypocrisy in politics? Unheard of!
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    Hypocrisy in politics? Unheard of!

    This is a highly specific, nearly indentical situation. The contrast will be quite stark if it doesn't happen.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Artona said:

    Meanwhile in Poland we had the most unusual change in cabinet (or, like we call them in Poland, "reconstruction of cabinet"): current Minister of Finance and Minister of Development became Prime Minister - but he still has Ministries he had... and former Prime Minister became Vice-Prime Minister (that's how you call it in English?) with no portfolio (Ministry). *Every other official* held his position. We basically had two people switch positions in the same cabinet - and while media were reporting that, Senate passed bills that made judiciary in Poland totally dependent from Parliament and President.
    Basically, our ruling party used freaking *change in cabinet* as a decoy for non-democratic changes in law. It clearly shows we are no longer western liberal democracy, and how any authority government has right one. Ministries and Parliaments are meaningless right now - true power lies within our ruling party, exactly as during communism.
    Back then officials from other countries were meeting with leader of polish communist party, instead of Prime Minister, President, or whoever - and we are coming back to that custom, it seems. It's against diplomatic protocol, but why meet meaningless figure?
    Man, this is depressing.

    As Barack Obama warned in a speech a few days ago, democracy can disappear in the blink of an eye if it isn't nurtured and cared for. Totalitarianism can take hold with remarkable speed, often before the populace even knows what hit them. And by then it's too late.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    It should be noted that there was another (very amateur) attempt at falsifying a sexual harassment scandal by someone on the right yesterday. Someone started shopping around a complaint about Chuck Schumer. Problem?? The women who supposedly made the claim then came out and denied it 100%, and said the document was fake. Then it was revealed that the text of the complaint was a near facsimile of the complaint against John Conyers. Again, amatuer hour, likely someone in the Alt-right or Project Veritas. The matter has been turned over to authorities, and could result in arrests.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017

    Representative Matt Gaetz and other Republicans have been calling for an investigation into the Mueller investigation to see if it's biased against Trump.

    The whole point of having an independent, non-partisan investigation like Mueller's is that it can stay independent and non-partisan, without getting pressured by politicians. I hate the idea that even a registered Republican like Mueller is considered a suspicious and unreliable and biased figure by Republican politicians simply because Mueller is doing the job he was assigned.

    I've reserved judgment on the Trump administration guilt or innocence of any crimes or misdeeds relating to the 2016 election until the Mueller investigation is complete and we have all the relevant facts on hand. The investigation should continue to completion with no interference or obstruction from the administration or anyone else.

    If you want an investigation to be unbiased and the findings to be truthful, keep politicians' hands off of it. Leave it to law enforcement.

    Comey and Mueller were both appointed by Republican Presidents (Comey as Deputy AG in the Bush Administration). The idea they are Democratic hitmen is absurd. One agent was found to have written negative text messages about Trump. Mueller found out in July and promptly removed him from the investigation. I'll also add there were NO attempts in the '90s to actually shut down Ken Starr's investigation by Democrats. That despite the fact that Ken Starr clearly WAS a partisan investigator.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited December 2017
    Fox News and the right wing propaganda machine won't be happy until Mueller is replaced by some blind partisan totally loyal to the GOP. So the opposite of an independent counsel. And then they won't be happy and will still be suspicious until that toady declares Mr. Trump the most innocent person who has ever held the office of the Presidency.

    Apparently the White House was placed on lockdown last night when someone threw a TV out of a window. (jk)

    Also, omarosa manigault newman, one of the few black people in the administration, is being fired (spun as "decided to pursue other opportunities") by chief of staff and civil war apologist John Kelly.



  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    I don't think playing the race card is valid here.it's not like people are clamouring to join this administration.

    John Kelly NEEDS to run a tight ship to prevent descent. The president causes enough chaos on his own, so if the staff do not fall in line, they'll be shown the door regardless of who they are.

    It's probably a blessing in disguise for her. The WH looks bad, not her.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    Supposedly she took the blame for not convincing black women in Alabama to vote for Moore. And she took offense at comments by white house staff attacking black women in Alabama that they "were stupid and only good for breeding more Democrats"


    Not sure how legit this site is but it's a source of that quote
    http://polipace.com/2017/12/13/omarosa-fired-banned-white-house-racial-blow/
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    The Mueller Investigation is already politically tainted but that is entirely Peter Strzok's fault. He is the FBI agent who changed former Director Comey's report about Hillary's e-mail server issue from "grossly negligent", which could have led to criminal charges, to "extremely careless", which allowed her to avoid any charges. He is also the agent who signed off on the documents which opened the initial Russian election interference and worked on the DNC e-mail hacking case. Unfortunately, he and his mistress had been trading blatantly anti-Trump messages with each other while he was actively working these cases, thus prompting Mueller to fire Strzok (as already noted) because Strzok's political bias was interfering with his job as a neutral investigator.

    Truthfully, *any* investigation of a politician is going to be politically biased--too many people are too willing to use whatever influence they have to sway the investigation to one side or the other.

    *************

    I cannot find any more about this story right now but I am still looking. Why, exactly, did police in Grand Rapids decide it was necessary to place an 11-year-old girl in handcuffs at gunpoint while they were looking for her aunt?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Because we live in a police state. I've told the story before of (I believe) a GA SWAT team who stormed a house they suspected had meth in it, and threw a flash grenade into a crib that had a sleeping baby in it. No consequences:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-georgia-deputy-acquitted-after-flash-bang-grenade-hurts-toddler-n479361
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    @jjstraka34
    As Barack Obama warned in a speech a few days ago, democracy can disappear in the blink of an eye if it isn't nurtured and cared for. Totalitarianism can take hold with remarkable speed, often before the populace even knows what hit them. And by then it's too late.

    ...especially when your country doesn't have long-standing democratic traditions. Most people don't actually care about absolute destruction of judiciary we are witnessing right now. Relative poverty does not help as well.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    I am deeply underwhelmed by the Strzok "scandal." God forbid an investigator would have a low opinion of one of the targets of his investigation.

    And how many people in Washington have honestly never sent a "Trump is a douche" text?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    joluv said:

    I am deeply underwhelmed by the Strzok "scandal." God forbid an investigator would have a low opinion of one of the targets of his investigation.

    And how many people in Washington have honestly never sent a "Trump is a douche" text?

    It also implies that FBI agents shouldn't be allowed to hold personal politcal beliefs. How is that going to work out?? Moreover, why would we assume professionals can't separate their work from their private life. Why?? Everyone else does. These were texts to his mistress, not inter-department memos. If he can't share his opinions with his lover, who CAN he share his opinions with?? What's the implication, that he is fabricating evidence?? To what end?? If he was caught, he would not only lose his career but face decades in federal prison. What would the texts of the NY Field Office investigators who magically found duplicate emails of Hillary's a week before the election look like?? Clearly one of them was talking to Rudy Giuliani, who knew about it and had no business knowing. If we are gonna scour FBI agent texts, I say we go whole-hog.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited December 2017
    the right wingers complaining about this would be perfectly happy if the investigator was passing messages saying that Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread. But isn't that bias too? I somehow think they would think that was just fine. All they want is for their crooked people to control everything and play their games on a rigged field is that too much to ask?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Politically, last night pretty much puts an end to Paul Ryan's wet dream of decimating Medicare and Social Security. It's highly doubtful either can be done next year with only a one seat majority in the Senate. Everyone can thank African-American voters in Alabama for temporarily saving their retirement.
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957

    This is where it helps to have a memory of recent political events. In 2009, this exact situation played out. A Republican won a special Election in blue Massachusetts (Scott Brown). Mitch McConnell DEMANDED he be seated before the Obamacare vote (which he was). If Doug Jones isn't in the Senate before the tax bill reconciliation vote, it will be the height of hypocrisy.

    Apparently it wasn't McConnell doing the screaming, but he's still on record being pleased that there wouldn't be any "gamesmanship" from the other side after thanking the Democrat who opened the argument that the senate should wait.

    “One concern I know a number of you had about the outcome of this election would be whether the new senator would be seated soon,” McConnell told reporters at a Capitol briefing on January 20, 2010. “I am convinced now that no gamesmanship will be played by the other side with regard to future votes in the Senate, thanks to Senator Jim Webb of Virginia. He’s made it clear that he will not participate in any additional health care votes prior to Senator Brown being sworn in…. Let’s honor the wishes of the people of Massachusetts and move forward.”

    Politically, last night pretty much puts an end to Paul Ryan's wet dream of decimating Medicare and Social Security. It's highly doubtful either can be done next year with only a one seat majority in the Senate. Everyone can thank African-American voters in Alabama for temporarily saving their retirement.

    I'm still very worried they can get the tax bill through. News article that house and senate GOP have already hammered out details for the difference of the tax bill.

    I've been catching up on about a year of Paul Krugman's blog, and I am deeply concerned about points he raises about the effects of the tax bill that few highlight regarding increased investment from tax cuts being offset by large losses in the trade deficit. HUGE losses.

    And apparently, the state of Alabama is probably going to dig their heels in until Christmas to turn in all the ballot results. Jones wouldn't be certified by the state until Jan. 3rd. THEN the ball would be in McConnell's court.

    We'll see what happens. If the conference committee doesn't look like it'll be done by January, I'm still leaning towards Ryan ordering the House Republicans to jettison the house bill, approve the Senate bill and bypass the conference committee and the issue of Jones entirely.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017

    This is where it helps to have a memory of recent political events. In 2009, this exact situation played out. A Republican won a special Election in blue Massachusetts (Scott Brown). Mitch McConnell DEMANDED he be seated before the Obamacare vote (which he was). If Doug Jones isn't in the Senate before the tax bill reconciliation vote, it will be the height of hypocrisy.

    Apparently it wasn't McConnell doing the screaming, but he's still on record being pleased that there wouldn't be any "gamesmanship" from the other side after thanking the Democrat who opened the argument that the senate should wait.

    “One concern I know a number of you had about the outcome of this election would be whether the new senator would be seated soon,” McConnell told reporters at a Capitol briefing on January 20, 2010. “I am convinced now that no gamesmanship will be played by the other side with regard to future votes in the Senate, thanks to Senator Jim Webb of Virginia. He’s made it clear that he will not participate in any additional health care votes prior to Senator Brown being sworn in…. Let’s honor the wishes of the people of Massachusetts and move forward.”

    Politically, last night pretty much puts an end to Paul Ryan's wet dream of decimating Medicare and Social Security. It's highly doubtful either can be done next year with only a one seat majority in the Senate. Everyone can thank African-American voters in Alabama for temporarily saving their retirement.

    I'm still very worried they can get the tax bill through. News article that house and senate GOP have already hammered out details for the difference of the tax bill.

    I've been catching up on about a year of Paul Krugman's blog, and I am deeply concerned about points he raises about the effects of the tax bill that few highlight regarding increased investment from tax cuts being offset by large losses in the trade deficit. HUGE losses.

    And apparently, the state of Alabama is probably going to dig their heels in until Christmas to turn in all the ballot results. Jones wouldn't be certified by the state until Jan. 3rd. THEN the ball would be in McConnell's court.

    We'll see what happens. If the conference committee doesn't look like it'll be done by January, I'm still leaning towards Ryan ordering the House Republicans to jettison the house bill, approve the Senate bill and bypass the conference committee and the issue of Jones entirely.
    Oh, the tax bill is still going through. And Jones will not be seated until the New Year, and Republicans WILL NOT delay the vote like Democrats did after Scott Brown's election. Because they aren't actors operating in anything resembling good faith. And Democrats have to remember how this game is played next time they take power. Because they can't keep pretending like the other side is going to reciprocate their gestures, and they also should stop acting like the public will care in the end. Mitch McConnell is as bad as Trump. His theft of the Supreme Court seat basically destroyed the functionality of the Federal Government forever as far as I'm concerned. It was a bridge too far. The idea he and the Republicans will allow Alabama to have it's duly-elected Senator be sworn in before the tax vote (as Harry Reid insisted happen with Obamacare when Scott Brown won) is preposterous. Being noble and respecting the norms of government have got Democrats nowhere. As far as Senate tactics go, they can no longer afford to take the high road when back in power.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    So Roy Moore still hasn't conceded right? I guess we shouldn't be surprised that a child predator has trouble taking no for an answer.

    The tax cut for the rich and tax hike on the middle class will absolutely be rushed through and passed barring a miracle from Flake, Collins or McCain or something like that. The House Republicans have said House Democrats will not be able to see the bill before the general public and will not be able to offer ammendments. Stay classy Republicans.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    State Rep. Dan Johnson of Kentucky, who was under investigation for molesting a teenage girl, has apparently shot and killed himself on a bridge. Which is definitely not the way to prove your innocence (and probably not all that uncommon an outcome for people who know they are guilty of such a heinous act). His suicide note (posted on Facebook) certainly captures a deranged and guilty mind in it's final throes:

    Killing yourself seems an odd response to "fake news". The real tragedy here is that I'm already seeing people saying it is the GIRL'S fault for coming forward.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    And, like I predicted yesterday, two Alt-right darlings are responsible for the fake sexual harassment allegations against Chuck Schumer yesterday. And it's looking like Mike Cernovich and Charles Johnson are in some deep shit:
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    Balrog99 said:

    BillyYank said:

    So at the current count, 48.8% of Alabamans voted for the paedophile. That's 8.8% more than voted to keep the ban on interracial marriages back in 2000. Way to go Alabama.

    You know what? Not everybody believes the same way you do. That doesn't mean they're pieces of shit or dumbasses. That just means their priorities aren't the same as yours. It's this kind of attitude that is contributing to the problem. Not just you @BillyYank. I'm not calling you out in particular, but this "I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong" BS is what's killing this country!
    Yes, someone who thinks the government should have prevented my children from ever being born definitely has different priorities than I do.

    There's a lot more I want to say here, but I'm having a lot of trouble putting it into words. I've been staring at the screen trying to order my thoughts for 45 minutes. I may come back to this.
  • StormvesselStormvessel Member Posts: 654
    edited December 2017

    It's understandable that Trump wouldn't put much stock in "allegations" after the spectacle of libel the democrats tried to conjure up out of nothing during his presidential race. But can I say for sure that Trump would not have endorsed even if the allegations against Moore were true and he knew it? HAHA Nope! Because politicians, at the end of the day, do what is politically expedient. Morality is illusory in their minds; the end justifies the means. Always. This is doubly true with Trump, and the Republicans have no choice but to sit back and take it, lest he command his hive mind army to vote for another stooge! And it is so hilarious to watch.

    With that said, the Republicans should've learned a lesson from the democrats last year of what happens when you run a candidate embroiled in a scandal.

    Personally, I think both Moore and Jones are degenerate liars. I had no preference - though it would've been nice to watch all the smug liberal outsiders who pooled resources into the State would've gone down in flames. When it comes to self-righteous, virtue signalling "intellectuals" who so dearly love the sickly sweet aroma of their own flatulence, there is hardly anything I despise more...except, well, Moore. I shed no tears.

    On a more somber note, the GOP did warn that gay marriage would lead to acceptance of pedophilia...ah, snap!

    Smug liberal outsiders. Been hearing that one coming out of the South for over a century. The smug liberal outsiders said we can't own slaves anymore. Then the smug liberal outsiders came down and told us we can't have segregated schools, restaurants and drinking fountains any more. Even worse, smug liberal outsiders said we have to let them vote and we can't lynch those black folk without repercussion anymore. And now the smug liberal outsiders are saying we shouldn't vote for a guy who thinks being gay should be illegal and who is a serial child predator. Yeah, those damn smug liberal assholes are the REAL problem.

    Virtue signaling. Or, what used to known as "common decency", except the alt-right has invented a new (very predictable) language for everything. Doug Jones is a degenerate liar?? No one even knows anything about Doug Jones, since the entire race has been about Moore. I DO know that the first thing Doug Jones did tonight was call on the Senate to quite dragging their ass and re-authorize CHIP (which is the Children's Health Insurance Program, which Republicans have refused to fund and is quickly running out of money, possibly leaving up to 9 million children and their parents in limbo for healthcare). But yeah, such concerns are for the smug, virtue signaling liberals. Well, count this guy among them.
    I'm not buying that shit. Liberals behave as though they have a monopoly on truth by which they control the narratives and bash working class whites and other common folk. Do I defend Republicans? No. I despise the way they appeal only to the abstract, seeing as how they have nothing concrete (but slavery) to offer the poor white buggers who place them in power. But to act like liberals or the democrats in general embody some type of righteous resistance that is in any way good for the country really churns my stomach.

    Just a sickening display of smugness and gross over-privilege; the way they virtue signal from their ivy league schools and gated white enclaves; so-called "intellectuals" have established themselves as "moral vanguards", and are rife with self-importance while producing nothing of actual value. They have entrenched themselves in culture, the arts, education, media, entertainment, and the bureaucratic establishments. They control the narratives - they disseminate identity politics by which division is perpetuated among proletarian ranks. And they attack working class whites, call them "privileged" by which they implicate all whites with themselves (as a shield for themselves..."we're in this together - we're all privileged") - which forces the white commoner on the defensive and pushes them even further into reactionism. No, YOU'RE privileged. All whites need not be overcome - it's nowhere near that difficult you self-righteous, non-producing cretins. You'll find no safety in numbers here; only YOU need be overcome.

    I long for the day when both poor white rural folk and social minorities awake from their controllers and unite, seizing power in these United States. Rest assured, all of these neo-capitalist, neo-liberal, identity politics spewing over privileged, yuppie fucks will at last become intimately acquainted with the redemptive power of work - forced communal labour. It will be the only time in their miserable silver-spoon fed lives they've produced anything of actual value.
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