Honestly, I am not sure Bernie would have won either. I saw those last minute polls, but I think they would have hung "socialism" around his neck like an albatross. He would also still have been working with the DNC.
Bernie lost because of the corruption in the primary election process of the Democratic Party, but I believe he would have won against Trump. Clinton hit up all the superdelegates and won by a landslide, even though Bernie and Hillary were neck and neck the majority of the time. If you think the electoral college is messed up, you should learn about how superdelegates works within the Democratic Party. Pretty disgusting, in my opinion. (Not that the Republican Party doesn't have its own share of disgusting corruption as well.) They shot themselves in the foot with their own corruption this year. Such a shame.
That is not why he lost, and again, this is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how US politics is constructed. He lost because he got in the race 9 months later than he should have. He was basically engaging in a protest run when he saw there was nobody else in the field. He had no organization and no infrastructure to mount a serious push at the nomination. He did not lose because Donna Brazille fed Hillary a few (obvious) debate questions or because Debbie Wasserman Schultz put her fingers on the scale. I was a Bernie supporter and I don't believe that nonsense. Was the DNC WAY too cushy with Hillary?? Damn right. But that is in no way the reason he lost. You are giving the DNC WAY more credit than they deserve if you think they are capable of that kind of competence. The super-delegates had nothing to do with anything. They supported the winner in '08 when it was Obama and Clinton in '16. If Bernie had won more delegates, the super-delegates would have supported him. There is an argument to be made they shouldn't exist, but they had ZERO to do with who won the nomination. Bernie gets in a year earlier, he wins the nomination.
Now, you might say, "Donald Trump mounted his campaign with no infrastructure or planning". And that is true, but there are two caveats. 1.) the GOP primary is a completely different beast than the Democratic one and 2.) by all accounts, Donald Trump was given over 2 BILLION dollars of free media time by the American cable and broadcast news networks, an unprecedented abdication of their duty. Les Moonves, head of CBS, in a direct quote said "Donald Trump isn't good for America, but he is good for CBS".
It is very clear (and always was) that Bernie was a better candidate against Trump. It was a mistake. But I also think people are seriously underestimating just how hard the Trump campaign and Steve Bannon would have played the "communist Jew" card.
I'll also reiterate again. As flawed (super-flawed) as she was, Hillary Clinton currently leads the popular vote by over 600,000. Most of the remaining votes to come in are from California, New York, and Washington (you know, the places where everyone actually lives). In the end, well over a million more people are going to vote for her than Trump. Clearly, the rules are the rules. I am NOT saying Trump isn't President. I am saying that taking office with such a clear loss in regards to the actual will of the people presents a SERIOUS legitimacy problem, especially considering how he conducted his campaign and the fact that this JUST happened 16 years ago. We are choosing the most powerful person in the world by an antiquated, 18th century system originally devised when there were only 13 states. It's madness.
Funny how Trump is whistling a completely different tune now... But it is not appeasing everyone and he is still surrounded by people who fear change...
Fear leads to hate...
Hate leads to the dark side!
...
We have to lightsaber his ass now before we are all in deep sith.
...
Seriously guys. We have no idea if he is going to be bad or good or even most likely, mediocre.
I liked both Bernie and Hillary during the primaries, but in retrospect I think Bernie would have been a better choice. He was always projected to beat the various Republican hopefuls by a wider margin than Hillary. Hillary did well, but Bernie likely would have done better.
That said, I have heard the arguments about the Democratic primaries being rigged, and to me, they fell flat. I only know of three concrete examples of bias in the primaries:
1. Debbie Wasserman Schultz complained about Bernie in private emails, and left her job when people found out. 2. One Democratic party employee asked another employee via email if they could accuse Bernie of being an atheist to weaken him. The response was "no." 3. Bernie claimed that his speeches were given time slots when fewer people would be listening.
The third one is the only plausible scandal, because it's the only one where actual action was taken, action which could have impacted the primary results. The other two are just people talking. But I don't know how much truth is in the third one because because people seldom mention any specifics when discussing this subject.
Usually, they just say "leaks revealed that people did bad stuff." They don't say who did it, they don't say what was done, and they don't say what the leaks actually said. No quotes, no names, and no dates.
If somebody can add to the list above, please do. I want to know if I'm missing anything.
I don't know how many times we have to say this: it's not his policies that people are afraid of, it's the culture of hate and bigotry that his campaign tacitly (and occasionally not so tacitly) fostered, the culture that led to a spike in violent, racially targeted crimes.
And as he chooses his transition team, the names on his list appear to be doubling down on that culture. Who will be in his cabinet we still don't know, but so far he hasn't given any indication that the Muslim, black, Latino, and LGBT communities can relax from the hackles-up "I hope I don't get shot or stabbed today" state they've been living in for the last eighteen months.
Sure he might be freaking great for the economy, who knows. But for a lot of the country, the cost of that growth is already too high.
The most powerful people in the world are the corporations (CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN) that control the narrative.
Depends on the demographic. I'd say that Breitbart, Democratic Underground and similar echo-chamber news sources are similarly potent in building division among their respective audiences.
Regardless, I'm going to try to give him my support and the benefit of the doubt, as I have the last few presidents, regardless of my opinion of them or their policies. He may be good, bad, or mediocre. I'm hoping for good.
I don't know how many times we have to say this: it's not his policies that people are afraid of, it's the culture of hate and bigotry that his campaign tacitly (and occasionally not so tacitly) fostered, the culture that led to a spike in violent, racially targeted crimes.
And as he chooses his transition team, the names on his list appear to be doubling down on that culture. Who will be in his cabinet we still don't know, but so far he hasn't given any indication that the Muslim, black, Latino, and LGBT communities can relax from the hackles-up "I hope I don't get shot or stabbed today" state they've been living in for the last eighteen months.
Sure he might be freaking great for the economy, who knows. But for a lot of the country, the cost of that growth is already too high.
HIS polices aren't the problem, because he has none. Paul Ryan's policies are a BIG problem. We are talking Social Security and Medicare be privatized and handed over to Wall Street. Those two programs are the reason we don't have indigent senior citizens sleeping on park benches all across the country.
His transition team is a veritable roster of talk radio and FOX News personalities. It would be like if Obama had staffed his team with.....well there is no comparison to make here. It's a horror show.
If you care to look them up, there have been dozens if not HUNDREDS of reported incidents in the last 3 days of minorities and women being verbally and physically harassed and threatened by Trump supporters. There is a veritable epidemic of teachers having to deal with children harassing their classmates based on Trump's campaign. Children are cruel in the first place, because they don't know any better unless they are taught. Now, they have been told that grabbing a woman by the p***y can make you President of the United States. Do you think young boys haven't heard that?? Donald Trump is the complete antithesis of what any decent parent would want their child to be. And we now have a cultural climate in which it is going to be a challenge to even teach children right from wrong. After all, what's the worst consequence of that behavior?? At the moment, you can still become the most powerful person in the world.
The most powerful people in the world are the corporations (CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN) that control the narrative.
Depends on the demographic. I'd say that Breitbart, Democratic Underground and similar echo-chamber news sources are similarly potent in building division among their respective audiences.
This is very reminiscent of when Obama was elected. Their was a lot of hate that when around then, too
You can't blame one person for what his supporters do. You can only blame him for what he does.
If we are talking about what he does, then I agree with you. But laying years of hatred and bigotry at his feet is illogical. All he's really done is bring those feelings to the surface. People are still responsible for their own actions no matter what Trump said or did while he was campaigning.
I don't know how many times we have to say this: it's not his policies that people are afraid of, it's the culture of hate and bigotry that his campaign tacitly (and occasionally not so tacitly) fostered, the culture that led to a spike in violent, racially targeted crimes.
And as he chooses his transition team, the names on his list appear to be doubling down on that culture. Who will be in his cabinet we still don't know, but so far he hasn't given any indication that the Muslim, black, Latino, and LGBT communities can relax from the hackles-up "I hope I don't get shot or stabbed today" state they've been living in for the last eighteen months.
Sure he might be freaking great for the economy, who knows. But for a lot of the country, the cost of that growth is already too high.
HIS polices aren't the problem, because he has none. Paul Ryan's policies are a BIG problem. We are talking Social Security and Medicare be privatized and handed over to Wall Street. Those two programs are the reason we don't have indigent senior citizens sleeping on park benches all across the country.
His transition team is a veritable roster of talk radio and FOX News personalities. It would be like if Obama had staffed his team with.....well there is no comparison to make here. It's a horror show.
If you care to look them up, there have been dozens if not HUNDREDS of reported incidents in the last 3 days of minorities and women being verbally and physically harassed and threatened by Trump supporters. There is a veritable epidemic of teachers having to deal with children harassing their classmates based on Trump's campaign. Children are cruel in the first place, because they don't know any better unless they are taught. Now, they have been told that grabbing a woman by the p***y can make you President of the United States. Do you think young boys haven't heard that?? Donald Trump is the complete antithesis of what any decent parent would want their child to be. And we now have a cultural climate in which it is going to be a challenge to even teach children right from wrong. After all, what's the worst consequence of that behavior?? At the moment, you can still become the most powerful person in the world.
Placing labels on people like "you are only a decent parent if..." is only an opinion and not very constructive. If my views are a little different than someone else's does that mean I'm a bad parent?
The most powerful people in the world are the corporations (CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN) that control the narrative.
Depends on the demographic. I'd say that Breitbart, Democratic Underground and similar echo-chamber news sources are similarly potent in building division among their respective audiences.
Agreed, there is Info wars and TYT also.
TYT completely went off the rails this election with their Hillary hatred. It all culminated in a dust-up at the Republican Convention (instigated by Alex Jones) that made both of them look like a bunch of idiots. From my end of the spectrum (which obviously is not the same one you share), TYT was the flag-bearer for the Bernie or Bust movement. I was a Bernie supporter, I wanted him to win. But again, this is a zero-sum game. When Hillary won the nomination, it was her or Trump. There are serious consequences for real people because of what happened in this election. My GF has been battling cancer for almost a year and a half. It's an open question whether she will even survive it. But if she does, and she ever loses her job in the future, she will not be able to purchase health insurance if the Affordable Care Act is repealed because of that kind of pre-existing condition. That's real. Immigrant families being split up by deportations is real. Gay people who are married losing that right is real. These are people with feelings and lives who the Democrats at least give a shit about in SOME fashion. Republicans could care less.
I don't know how many times we have to say this: it's not his policies that people are afraid of, it's the culture of hate and bigotry that his campaign tacitly (and occasionally not so tacitly) fostered, the culture that led to a spike in violent, racially targeted crimes.
And as he chooses his transition team, the names on his list appear to be doubling down on that culture. Who will be in his cabinet we still don't know, but so far he hasn't given any indication that the Muslim, black, Latino, and LGBT communities can relax from the hackles-up "I hope I don't get shot or stabbed today" state they've been living in for the last eighteen months.
Sure he might be freaking great for the economy, who knows. But for a lot of the country, the cost of that growth is already too high.
HIS polices aren't the problem, because he has none. Paul Ryan's policies are a BIG problem. We are talking Social Security and Medicare be privatized and handed over to Wall Street. Those two programs are the reason we don't have indigent senior citizens sleeping on park benches all across the country.
His transition team is a veritable roster of talk radio and FOX News personalities. It would be like if Obama had staffed his team with.....well there is no comparison to make here. It's a horror show.
If you care to look them up, there have been dozens if not HUNDREDS of reported incidents in the last 3 days of minorities and women being verbally and physically harassed and threatened by Trump supporters. There is a veritable epidemic of teachers having to deal with children harassing their classmates based on Trump's campaign. Children are cruel in the first place, because they don't know any better unless they are taught. Now, they have been told that grabbing a woman by the p***y can make you President of the United States. Do you think young boys haven't heard that?? Donald Trump is the complete antithesis of what any decent parent would want their child to be. And we now have a cultural climate in which it is going to be a challenge to even teach children right from wrong. After all, what's the worst consequence of that behavior?? At the moment, you can still become the most powerful person in the world.
Placing labels on people like "you are only a decent parent if..." is only an opinion. If my views are a little different than someone else's does that mean I'm a bad parent?
What about Donald Trump's general behavior in the past 70 years is something you would want your child to emulate?? Sexual assault?? Housing discrimination?? Stiffing contractors who completed work on his construction projects by using litigation as a weapon??
Politics is a zero-sum game. There were two choices....
The issue is very clear, now more than ever. We are two countries that want absolutely nothing to do with each other. And it is a nearly unanimous urban/rural divide.
Your first sentence is true. The second sentence fragment is false--there were choices available other then Democrat or Republican.
The third sentence is also true. There are no easy solutions to that problem, though.
It will take a Constitutional Amendment to abolish the Electoral College, which will likely take a decade to occur if people start now.
I agree--Obama should make a recess appointment to the Supreme Court, an option which is within his authority. The problem with that option, though, is that the Supreme Court is allowed to refuse an appointee to be seated--they have the authority to reject justices who were not confirmed by the Senate.
The pendulum has been swinging a little more wildly for quite some time. The Internet and social media are causing many of us to wrap ourselves in the comfortable blanket of confirmation bias, the end result of which is that we are shocked to find that other people think differently than we do.
CNN is universally viewed as a joke by liberals as well, trust me. It's a clown show. On election night in '08 they had celebrities checking in by HOLOGRAM as if they were Princess Leia trying to get a message to Obi-Wan.
The most powerful people in the world are the corporations (CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN) that control the narrative.
Depends on the demographic. I'd say that Breitbart, Democratic Underground and similar echo-chamber news sources are similarly potent in building division among their respective audiences.
Agreed, there is Info wars and TYT also.
TYT completely went off the rails this election with their Hillary hatred. It all culminated in a dust-up at the Republican Convention (instigated by Alex Jones) that made both of them look like a bunch of idiots. From my end of the spectrum (which obviously is not the same one you share), TYT was the flag-bearer for the Bernie or Bust movement. I was a Bernie supporter, I wanted him to win. But again, this is a zero-sum game. When Hillary won the nomination, it was her or Trump. There are serious consequences for real people because of what happened in this election. My GF has been battling cancer for almost a year and a half. It's an open question whether she will even survive it. But if she does, and she ever loses her job in the future, she will not be able to purchase health insurance if the Affordable Care Act is repealed because of that kind of pre-existing condition. That's real. Immigrant families being split up by deportations is real. Gay people who are married losing that right is real. These are people with feelings and lives who the Democrats at least give a shit about in SOME fashion. Republicans could care less.
Being a cancer survivor myself (3 yrs now) I am sorry what you and your girlfriend have to go through and I hope that she will overcome this horrible disease.
I was a Bernie supporter also but I am not crying about things that are in the future. No one knew the outcome of this election. People were not lynched during the Bush admin and I don't think that will happen now.
Being a cancer survivor myself (3 yrs now) I am sorry what you and your girlfriend have to go through and I hope that she will overcome this horrible disease.
Also, if anyone is illegally in another country they should be punished by that countries laws. I waited years and went through hell to get in. Why should people like me be punished by doing things by the law.
Politics is a zero-sum game. There were two choices....
The issue is very clear, now more than ever. We are two countries that want absolutely nothing to do with each other. And it is a nearly unanimous urban/rural divide.
Your first sentence is true. The second sentence fragment is false--there were choices available other then Democrat or Republican.
The third sentence is also true. There are no easy solutions to that problem, though.
It will take a Constitutional Amendment to abolish the Electoral College, which will likely take a decade to occur if people start now.
I agree--Obama should make a recess appointment to the Supreme Court, an option which is within his authority. The problem with that option, though, is that the Supreme Court is allowed to refuse an appointee to be seated--they have the authority to reject justices who were not confirmed by the Senate.
The pendulum has been swinging a little more wildly for quite some time. The Internet and social media are causing many of us to wrap ourselves in the comfortable blanket of confirmation bias, the end result of which is that we are shocked to find that other people think differently than we do.
I'm definitely not shocked to know what the right thinks in this country. I listen to it all the time, just to arm myself with the information. I was under the (still somewhat correct) assumption that there was simply not enough of them to win a national election. They still can, but it takes gerrymandering on every level. Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 elections. They have garnered more votes on the Congressional level nationally for the last two elections. But because of the way districts have been drawn and the Electoral College, it doesn't matter. And it is a serious problem, especially if, like me, your side has been the one getting screwed over and over. There hasn't been an instance of this happening to Republicans. It's all benefiting one side. Which is why THIS time liberals and the left have had enough. And I do believe it is unsustainable.
Also, if anyone is illegally in another country they should be punished by that countries laws. I waited years and went through hell to get in. Why should people like me be punished by doing things by the law.
That is a fundamental argument of law and order vs empathy and understanding for what the current situation is. The ironic thing is, illegal immigration is WAY down, just at the time Trump launched his campaign against it. Another fundamental issue in regards to this is how LEGAL immigrants are treated by other citizens and law enforcement. You can't tell the difference by looking at someone. Obviously I am talking about Latinos in this example. Regardless, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that promising to build a wall on the Mexican border (which is both logistically, geographically, and financially impossible) is the most cynical platform one can use to get elected. And his surrogates are already ALL over TV backing off this promise. Because Donald Trump is a carnival barker. But he's also a megalomaniac and quite possibly (likely) a sociopath/psychopath, depending on your definition of the terms. And he's now the most powerful man in the world.
Well I understood the wall was a figurative one. No to businesses going south of the border. No to NAFTA and BS trade agreements. No to unification of North America (European Union eg.)
Also I think that Putin is the most powerful man in the world.
Well I understood the wall was a figurative one. No to businesses going south of the border. No to NAFTA and BS trade agreements. No to unification of North America (European Union eg.)
Also I think that Putin is the most powerful man in the world.
His supporters do not understand that the wall was figurative, not most of them. And how does saying you were going to have "Mexico pay for it" imply anything but being a literal wall?? He called it a "big, beautiful wall". You may have a different opinion in that regard, I just don't believe the majority of his voters take it how you did.
You're right about Putin. 30 years ago the right in this country would have been apoplectic about Russian interference in a US election. Funny enough, this time they weren't. Which brings up another glaring alarm bell about Trump. He is almost certainly in debt to Russian banks and his campaign was working with Russian agents. The Russians have admitted as much in the last 2 days. Put it this way, if Hillary Clinton's campaign had been in collusion with the Russian government, just how much media coverage do you think it would have gotten compared to Trump's?? We would never hear the end of it.
This is just one example of dozens of accounts I have read in the last few days about what is going on around the country. I am not going to plaster them all over this forum, but jesus christ.....
By the way, this woman's LinkdIn page shows her as an interpreter for the deaf. To believe this is a hoax would be to believe she would risk her job to make up this story.
Just think that these people have always been there... just waiting, it seems, for a chance to take off their masks.
Kind of cowardly that they kept it hidden so long, isn't it?
The most chilling part of the account is "no one is saying or doing a thing". I'm told we still have to abide by Godwin's Law, but, I'll say again, we've seen this movie before. This is day number 4. He isn't even in office for another 2 months.
Comments
Now, you might say, "Donald Trump mounted his campaign with no infrastructure or planning". And that is true, but there are two caveats. 1.) the GOP primary is a completely different beast than the Democratic one and 2.) by all accounts, Donald Trump was given over 2 BILLION dollars of free media time by the American cable and broadcast news networks, an unprecedented abdication of their duty. Les Moonves, head of CBS, in a direct quote said "Donald Trump isn't good for America, but he is good for CBS".
It is very clear (and always was) that Bernie was a better candidate against Trump. It was a mistake. But I also think people are seriously underestimating just how hard the Trump campaign and Steve Bannon would have played the "communist Jew" card.
I'll also reiterate again. As flawed (super-flawed) as she was, Hillary Clinton currently leads the popular vote by over 600,000. Most of the remaining votes to come in are from California, New York, and Washington (you know, the places where everyone actually lives). In the end, well over a million more people are going to vote for her than Trump. Clearly, the rules are the rules. I am NOT saying Trump isn't President. I am saying that taking office with such a clear loss in regards to the actual will of the people presents a SERIOUS legitimacy problem, especially considering how he conducted his campaign and the fact that this JUST happened 16 years ago. We are choosing the most powerful person in the world by an antiquated, 18th century system originally devised when there were only 13 states. It's madness.
Fear leads to hate...
Hate leads to the dark side!
...
We have to lightsaber his ass now before we are all in deep sith.
...
Seriously guys. We have no idea if he is going to be bad or good or even most likely, mediocre.
That said, I have heard the arguments about the Democratic primaries being rigged, and to me, they fell flat. I only know of three concrete examples of bias in the primaries:
1. Debbie Wasserman Schultz complained about Bernie in private emails, and left her job when people found out.
2. One Democratic party employee asked another employee via email if they could accuse Bernie of being an atheist to weaken him. The response was "no."
3. Bernie claimed that his speeches were given time slots when fewer people would be listening.
The third one is the only plausible scandal, because it's the only one where actual action was taken, action which could have impacted the primary results. The other two are just people talking. But I don't know how much truth is in the third one because because people seldom mention any specifics when discussing this subject.
Usually, they just say "leaks revealed that people did bad stuff." They don't say who did it, they don't say what was done, and they don't say what the leaks actually said. No quotes, no names, and no dates.
If somebody can add to the list above, please do. I want to know if I'm missing anything.
And as he chooses his transition team, the names on his list appear to be doubling down on that culture. Who will be in his cabinet we still don't know, but so far he hasn't given any indication that the Muslim, black, Latino, and LGBT communities can relax from the hackles-up "I hope I don't get shot or stabbed today" state they've been living in for the last eighteen months.
Sure he might be freaking great for the economy, who knows. But for a lot of the country, the cost of that growth is already too high.
His transition team is a veritable roster of talk radio and FOX News personalities. It would be like if Obama had staffed his team with.....well there is no comparison to make here. It's a horror show.
If you care to look them up, there have been dozens if not HUNDREDS of reported incidents in the last 3 days of minorities and women being verbally and physically harassed and threatened by Trump supporters. There is a veritable epidemic of teachers having to deal with children harassing their classmates based on Trump's campaign. Children are cruel in the first place, because they don't know any better unless they are taught. Now, they have been told that grabbing a woman by the p***y can make you President of the United States. Do you think young boys haven't heard that?? Donald Trump is the complete antithesis of what any decent parent would want their child to be. And we now have a cultural climate in which it is going to be a challenge to even teach children right from wrong. After all, what's the worst consequence of that behavior?? At the moment, you can still become the most powerful person in the world.
You can't blame one person for what his supporters do. You can only blame him for what he does.
If we are talking about what he does, then I agree with you. But laying years of hatred and bigotry at his feet is illogical. All he's really done is bring those feelings to the surface. People are still responsible for their own actions no matter what Trump said or did while he was campaigning.
The third sentence is also true. There are no easy solutions to that problem, though.
It will take a Constitutional Amendment to abolish the Electoral College, which will likely take a decade to occur if people start now.
I agree--Obama should make a recess appointment to the Supreme Court, an option which is within his authority. The problem with that option, though, is that the Supreme Court is allowed to refuse an appointee to be seated--they have the authority to reject justices who were not confirmed by the Senate.
The pendulum has been swinging a little more wildly for quite some time. The Internet and social media are causing many of us to wrap ourselves in the comfortable blanket of confirmation bias, the end result of which is that we are shocked to find that other people think differently than we do.
I was a Bernie supporter also but I am not crying about things that are in the future. No one knew the outcome of this election. People were not lynched during the Bush admin and I don't think that will happen now.
And he has also came out and said that you will be able to keep or acquire new insurance with a pre existing condition.
I dont know what people think or feel but I, as I've done most of my life, wait for life to happen then react.
I don't like crying wolf.
Also I think that Putin is the most powerful man in the world.
#cynicism #conspiracy #thisisajoke #pleasedontsentmetosiberia
You're right about Putin. 30 years ago the right in this country would have been apoplectic about Russian interference in a US election. Funny enough, this time they weren't. Which brings up another glaring alarm bell about Trump. He is almost certainly in debt to Russian banks and his campaign was working with Russian agents. The Russians have admitted as much in the last 2 days. Put it this way, if Hillary Clinton's campaign had been in collusion with the Russian government, just how much media coverage do you think it would have gotten compared to Trump's?? We would never hear the end of it.
By the way, this woman's LinkdIn page shows her as an interpreter for the deaf. To believe this is a hoax would be to believe she would risk her job to make up this story.
Kind of cowardly that they kept it hidden so long, isn't it?