I once again warn people of throwing around the word Nazi and Hitler when trying to describe their demons.
I have lost family members to Fascists. I hope that a moderator steps in and puts a stop to this hate speech or this forum will be reported.
The free world will not tolerate this type of hate speech on any level.
So he's not allowed to throw the word Nazi around, but it's perfectly OK for you to call people Marxist without a shred of supporting evidence or, judging by your "definition" above, even knowing what the word means?
Seriously, both you and jjstraka34 sound like you've each been spending far too long in your respective ideologies' echo chambers. While there are extremist elements out there, neither the Republican nor the Democrats are as over the top as the two of you are making them out to be.
I once again warn people of throwing around the word Nazi and Hitler when trying to describe their demons.
I have lost family members to Fascists. I hope that a moderator steps in and puts a stop to this hate speech or this forum will be reported.
The free world will not tolerate this type of hate speech on any level.
So he's not allowed to throw the word Nazi around, but it's perfectly OK for you to call people Marxist without a shred of supporting evidence or, judging by your "definition" above, even knowing what the word means?
Seriously, both you and jjstraka34 sound like you've each been spending far too long in your respective ideologies' echo chambers. While there are extremist elements out there, neither the Republican nor the Democrats are as over the top as the two of you are making them out to be.
I didn't know Karl Marx was a contributor to any mass killings of civilians.
I am not left or right, I would classify my self as neutral or middle. I will speak out though when people try to associate ANYONE to monsters that committed genocide or acts of violence because of their religious beliefs or Ideologies.
If that offends anyone then I am guilty as charged.
If you have any interest in participating in a dialogue, @TakisMegas , you'll need to acknowledge that what you're describing, the events described in that link, is exactly the kind of thing that people are afraid of. It's not hyperbole or internet memery; in this case it's genuine fear of history repeating itself, and recognizing legitimate similarities in the way that Trump has risen to power. Maybe you don't agree with that fear, but that doesn't make it any less real for those who are expressing it here and throughout the US right now.
No, they're not the same. Trump hasn't killed political opponents. It's a different world today than it was seventy years ago (and that's wonderful progress). But there are still similarities between them, and those similarities are enough to make people afraid.
Also--and this is important--when people say "neo-nazi", they're not making broad judgments using a buzzword to score political points. They're not talking about Nazi Germany and the Third Reich. They're talking about actual neo-nazis and white supremacists, people with swastika tattoos, people shouting "Sieg Heil" at Trump rallies.
And they're talking about Trump not condemning those people and their behavior except flippantly when cornered in an interview or on the debate stage.
So I get why you don't want people to minimize what Hitler was, you don't want people using the terms Nazi or Fascism inappropriately. But that's not what's happening here. Do you get that?
I would definitely blame Marx for much of the violence committed by communists over the years. Jesus didn't tell his followers to kill each other, but Marx did. He was quite clear on how capitalism was to be destroyed.
(I'm probably the most anti-communist person I know)
That said, I would not compare the Democratic party to communism any more than I would compare the Republican party to fascism or Nazism. Both parties remain committed to free and peaceful elections as a means of solving our problems.
I once again warn people of throwing around the word Nazi and Hitler when trying to describe their demons.
I have lost family members to Fascists. I hope that a moderator steps in and puts a stop to this hate speech or this forum will be reported.
The free world will not tolerate this type of hate speech on any level.
So he's not allowed to throw the word Nazi around, but it's perfectly OK for you to call people Marxist without a shred of supporting evidence or, judging by your "definition" above, even knowing what the word means?
Seriously, both you and jjstraka34 sound like you've each been spending far too long in your respective ideologies' echo chambers. While there are extremist elements out there, neither the Republican nor the Democrats are as over the top as the two of you are making them out to be.
I didn't know Karl Marx was a contributor to any mass killings of civilians.
I am not left or right, I would classify my self as neutral or middle. I will speak out though when people try to associate ANYONE to monsters that committed genocide or acts of violence because of their religious beliefs or Ideologies.
If that offends anyone then I am guilty as charged.
Marx's followers killed far more people than Hitler's followers ever did. 40-60 million for Stalin and 80-120 million for Mao, just to name two. You may actually be a centrist in real life, but I can only see what you've said here, and your rhetoric in this thread has consistently echoed that of the far right.
The only thing about your post that comes near to offending me is your seeming insistence that others should follow certain rules of discourse that you seem to see no need to follow yourself.
Personally, I think calling Republicans "Nazis" or Democrats "Marxists" are both quite silly, but I'm not going to say that anyone should stop doing it if that's what they believe.
I once again warn people of throwing around the word Nazi and Hitler when trying to describe their demons.
I have lost family members to Fascists. I hope that a moderator steps in and puts a stop to this hate speech or this forum will be reported.
The free world will not tolerate this type of hate speech on any level.
So he's not allowed to throw the word Nazi around, but it's perfectly OK for you to call people Marxist without a shred of supporting evidence or, judging by your "definition" above, even knowing what the word means?
Seriously, both you and jjstraka34 sound like you've each been spending far too long in your respective ideologies' echo chambers. While there are extremist elements out there, neither the Republican nor the Democrats are as over the top as the two of you are making them out to be.
I didn't know Karl Marx was a contributor to any mass killings of civilians.
I am not left or right, I would classify my self as neutral or middle. I will speak out though when people try to associate ANYONE to monsters that committed genocide or acts of violence because of their religious beliefs or Ideologies.
If that offends anyone then I am guilty as charged.
Marx's followers killed far more people than Hitler's followers ever did. 40-60 million for Stalin and 80-120 million for Mao, just to name two. You may actually be a centrist in real life, but I can only see what you've said here, and your rhetoric in this thread has consistently echoed that of the far right.
The only thing about your post that comes near to offending me is your seeming insistence that others should follow certain rules of discourse that you seem to see no need to follow yourself.
Personally, I think calling Republicans "Nazis" or Democrats "Marxists" are both quite silly, but I'm not going to say that anyone should stop doing it if that's what they believe.
Marx did not commit these crimes his followers did. Jesus did not commit crimes against (insert here) the Christians (followers) did.
Hitler did. Stalin did. Mao did.
I guess I'm not conveying my message properly. I will work on it in the future.
Democrats and supporters of Hillary are not Marxist, it is the same sort of historically inaccurate nonsense spewing as calling Trump and his supporters fascists, and is on the same level.
It is just nonsense. And I AM going to say that we should stop saying this kind of stuff and come together as a nation. It is indicative of the naïveté born of our American privileges to compare the murdering of millions motivated by the flawed political philosophies of people in power in the past to the results of a peaceful, lawful, democratic election.
Ignorance leads to hatred, unless it is tempered by understanding.
We all have nutjobs. I hope that none of you veer too far in the ideologies of your choice Dee.
On that we can agree. Michael Moore is a whacko. (and I don't know enough about George Soros, but he's probably got issues too.)
But on the other hand, Michael Moore predicted that Trump would win, and he was right. So...
Look, all I'm saying is, to a lot of people, this election has resulted in three feelings:
1. Disappointment. Our candidate lost! That sucks! We're not going to get those policies we wanted! 2. Anger. Our candidate actually scored the most votes, nationwide! How the F is that democracy at work? (see also: "The Electoral College: How is this still a thing?") 3. Terror. The candidate who won has talked about shooting people and getting away with it, has talked about deportation forces and stop-and-frisk and building a wall, and his running mate thinks electro-shock therapy is a solution to "the gayness". He pays only lip service to the media asking him to condemn neo-nazis and the KKK endorsing him and committing violence at his rallies. He talks about loosening libel laws so that he can sue news outlets that say mean things about him. He talks about bringing back waterboarding, about murdering the families of suspected terrorists, about closing the country's borders based on religion. He's talked about putting Muslims into a registry so that they can be tracked.
The first feeling is normal, it's what anyone feels when their candidate loses, it's what Green Party and Libertarian voters are feeling right now as well.
The second feeling is unusual, but it's also normal. It's recognizing what may be a fundamental flaw in our democracy, and it's healthy, the first step toward fixing the problem.
The third feeling is deep, it's painful, it's probably what made us complacent about Trump in the first place. "There's no way he could be elected," we said to ourselves. "Just listen to the things he says."
A lot of folks are thinking that the people who are afraid are just exaggerating those first two feelings. But they're not. It's the third feeling that leads to thousands of people marching in protest, to the few small instances of riots and violence, that leads to people unfriending their own family members on Facebook.
@BillyYank: The 80-120 million death tally for Mao is an extreme number, the highest we have. The most reliable death count we have for the Great Leap Forward is 30-40 million, plus a few hundred thousand or a few million from the Cultural Revolution.
Unlike most mass murderers, Mao killed most of his victims unintentionally; he expected the Great Leap Forward to boost production rather than induce massive famines. That's what happens when you get 18 Charisma, 3 Wisdom, and the world's largest population in your hands.
We all have nutjobs. I hope that none of you veer too far in the ideologies of your choice Dee.
On that we can agree. Michael Moore is a whacko. (and I don't know enough about George Soros, but he's probably got issues too.)
But on the other hand, Michael Moore predicted that Trump would win, and he was right. So...
Look, all I'm saying is, to a lot of people, this election has resulted in three feelings:
1. Disappointment. Our candidate lost! That sucks! We're not going to get those policies we wanted! 2. Anger. Our candidate actually scored the most votes, nationwide! How the F is that democracy at work? (see also: "The Electoral College: How is this still a thing?") 3. Terror. The candidate who won has talked about shooting people and getting away with it, has talked about deportation forces and stop-and-frisk and building a wall, and his running mate thinks electro-shock therapy is a solution to "the gayness". He pays only lip service to the media asking him to condemn neo-nazis and the KKK endorsing him and committing violence at his rallies. He talks about loosening libel laws so that he can sue news outlets that say mean things about him. He talks about bringing back waterboarding, about murdering the families of suspected terrorists, about closing the country's borders based on religion. He's talked about putting Muslims into a registry so that they can be tracked.
The first feeling is normal, it's what anyone feels when their candidate loses, it's what Green Party and Libertarian voters are feeling right now as well.
The second feeling is unusual, but it's also normal. It's recognizing what may be a fundamental flaw in our democracy, and it's healthy, the first step toward fixing the problem.
The third feeling is deep, it's painful, it's probably what made us complacent about Trump in the first place. "There's no way he could be elected," we said to ourselves. "Just listen to the things he says."
A lot of folks are thinking that the people who are afraid are just exaggerating those first two feelings. But they're not. It's the third feeling that leads to thousands of people marching in protest, to the few small instances of riots and violence, that leads to people unfriending their own family members on Facebook.
Well I hope that all Americans come together and lead as a peaceful leader of progressive change.
Democrats and supporters of Hillary are not Marxist, it is the same sort of historically inaccurate nonsense spewing as calling Trump and his supporters fascists, and is on the same level.
It is just nonsense. And I AM going to say that we should stop saying this kind of stuff and come together as a nation. It is indicative of the naïveté born of our American privileges to compare the murdering of millions motivated by the flawed political philosophies of people in power in the past to the results of a peaceful, lawful, democratic election.
Ignorance leads to hatred, unless it is tempered by understanding.
Four days have passed. And Trump still said the things he said. And although he's said the words "we need to come together as a nation", and although he's acknowledged that it was a "passionate campaign", he has yet to ever acknowledge or condemn the behavior of his supporters, nor has he made any effort since the election to communicate to his supporters that they should be a part of the healing he says he wants.
To the people who have felt marginalized, oppressed, and threatened by Trump's campaign, "we should stop saying this kind of stuff" isn't an option. Not yet.
When someone hits somebody else in the face with a baseball bat, and the other person starts fighting back, you don't just say "You two are friends now, play nice."
As Daniel Tiger says: Saying I'm sorry is the first step; then, How can I help?
We all have nutjobs. I hope that none of you veer too far in the ideologies of your choice Dee.
On that we can agree. Michael Moore is a whacko. (and I don't know enough about George Soros, but he's probably got issues too.)
But on the other hand, Michael Moore predicted that Trump would win, and he was right. So...
Look, all I'm saying is, to a lot of people, this election has resulted in three feelings:
1. Disappointment. Our candidate lost! That sucks! We're not going to get those policies we wanted! 2. Anger. Our candidate actually scored the most votes, nationwide! How the F is that democracy at work? (see also: "The Electoral College: How is this still a thing?") 3. Terror. The candidate who won has talked about shooting people and getting away with it, has talked about deportation forces and stop-and-frisk and building a wall, and his running mate thinks electro-shock therapy is a solution to "the gayness". He pays only lip service to the media asking him to condemn neo-nazis and the KKK endorsing him and committing violence at his rallies. He talks about loosening libel laws so that he can sue news outlets that say mean things about him. He talks about bringing back waterboarding, about murdering the families of suspected terrorists, about closing the country's borders based on religion. He's talked about putting Muslims into a registry so that they can be tracked.
The first feeling is normal, it's what anyone feels when their candidate loses, it's what Green Party and Libertarian voters are feeling right now as well.
The second feeling is unusual, but it's also normal. It's recognizing what may be a fundamental flaw in our democracy, and it's healthy, the first step toward fixing the problem.
The third feeling is deep, it's painful, it's probably what made us complacent about Trump in the first place. "There's no way he could be elected," we said to ourselves. "Just listen to the things he says."
A lot of folks are thinking that the people who are afraid are just exaggerating those first two feelings. But they're not. It's the third feeling that leads to thousands of people marching in protest, to the few small instances of riots and violence, that leads to people unfriending their own family members on Facebook.
Exactly. And if this type of fear->hatred->violence isn't put into perspective by the actual facts of history, then we will be doomed to repeat not because it is Trump's plan (which is irrelevant, whether it is his plan or not) but because we as a nation will create it. We are already sowing the seeds of what you fear ourselves. What Trump has said or condoned cannot get us to divide ourselves, because of years of laws and regulations birthed by our history of hatred, 50 years ago. How we respond to what he says definitely can. By hating each other, and cutting off family ties, and destroying our friendships with each other, all based on something as minor as what is written on a ballot every 2-4 years.
Democrats and supporters of Hillary are not Marxist, it is the same sort of historically inaccurate nonsense spewing as calling Trump and his supporters fascists, and is on the same level.
It is just nonsense. And I AM going to say that we should stop saying this kind of stuff and come together as a nation. It is indicative of the naïveté born of our American privileges to compare the murdering of millions motivated by the flawed political philosophies of people in power in the past to the results of a peaceful, lawful, democratic election.
Ignorance leads to hatred, unless it is tempered by understanding.
Four days have passed. And Trump still said the things he said. And although he's said the words "we need to come together as a nation", and although he's acknowledged that it was a "passionate campaign", he has yet to ever acknowledge or condemn the behavior of his supporters, nor has he made any effort since the election to communicate to his supporters that they should be a part of the healing he says he wants.
To the people who have felt marginalized, oppressed, and threatened by Trump's campaign, "we should stop saying this kind of stuff" isn't an option. Not yet.
When someone hits somebody else in the face with a baseball bat, and the other person starts fighting back, you don't just say "You two are friends now, play nice."
As Daniel Tiger says: Saying I'm sorry is the first step; then, How can I help?
47.7% of America is still waiting for an apology.
Trump is not going to say, "I'm sorry." That's not in his character, and we all know it.
If we wait for that before we take the initiative to start the healing process ourselves for our own benefit, we will be doomed to continue into a spiral of fear, anger, hatred, and violence.
I don't disagree; people need to channel their fear and anger into something productive so that we can make the changes that need to be made, to protest the changes we oppose, and generally continue forward progress.
But it doesn't change the fear. I've been doing my best to help people push through it to get to something productive. But ignoring that fear doesn't make it go away, and neither does pretending the fear is unwarranted.
Trump is not going to say, "I'm sorry." That's not in his character, and we all know it.
If we wait for that before we take the initiative to start the healing process ourselves for our own benefit, we will be doomed to continue into a spiral of fear, anger, hatred, and violence.
I don't disagree; people need to channel their fear and anger into something productive so that we can make the changes that need to be made, to protest the changes we oppose, and generally continue forward progress.
But it doesn't change the fear. I've been doing my best to help people push through it to get to something productive. But ignoring that fear doesn't make it go away, and neither does pretending the fear is unwarranted.
I agree with you. I do not want to say to stop being afraid, because it is an emotion that can be a powerful motivator for good. But it can also be a powerful motivator for evil. We are not off to a great start as a county, and the fault lies on both sides of the fence, although I will concede that it is much more strongly with Trump's, because of his big fat mouth and non-politically correctness. We, though, can step up and be the bigger man (or woman, whatever). And we may need to in order to get results for peace.
Trump is not going to say, "I'm sorry." That's not in his character, and we all know it.
If we wait for that before we take the initiative to start the healing process ourselves for our own benefit, we will be doomed to continue into a spiral of fear, anger, hatred, and violence.
And the Dark Side, of course.
Just got this from movie quotes:
Emporer Palpatine: "You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant."
"Non-Politically Correct" aka admitting to sexually assaulting women, spending 8 years undermining the legitimacy of the first African-American President, starting your campaign calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, proposing a ban on an entire religion, and (worst of all) unleashing the worst elements of our society and giving them credibility.
I am so sick of this term. Political Correctness is a term that has been used to do ONE thing. It's a term people use because they're pissed off because they can no longer be assholes in public without people calling them out on it. They're the bullies who cry when someone finally punches them in the nose. And right now, they feel emboldened to be bullies again, because they have a figurehead who was just elected President. Trust me, if I ever see in person some of the widespread incidents being reported all over the country in the days after Trump's election, they WILL be confronted by me. This person hasn't forgotten how you deal the bully on the playground.
"Non-Politically Correct" aka admitting to sexually assaulting women, spending 8 years undermining the legitimacy of the first African-American President, starting your campaign calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, proposing a ban on an entire religion, and (worst of all) unleashing the worst elements of our society and giving them credibility.
I am so sick of this term. Political Correctness is a term that has been used to do ONE thing. It's a term people use because they're pissed off because they can no longer be assholes in public without people calling them out on it. They're the bullies who cry when someone finally punches them in the nose. And right now, they feel emboldened to be bullies again, because they have a figurehead who was just elected President. Trust me, if I ever see in person some of the widespread incidents being reported all over the country in the days after Trump's election, they WILL be confronted by me. This person hasn't forgotten how you deal the bully on the playground.
Buddy, you have some serious anger issues and I would suggest you get some help. You are threatening to become the violence and hate that you are complaining about.
"Non-Politically Correct" aka admitting to sexually assaulting women, spending 8 years undermining the legitimacy of the first African-American President, starting your campaign calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, proposing a ban on an entire religion, and (worst of all) unleashing the worst elements of our society and giving them credibility.
I am so sick of this term. Political Correctness is a term that has been used to do ONE thing. It's a term people use because they're pissed off because they can no longer be assholes in public without people calling them out on it. They're the bullies who cry when someone finally punches them in the nose. And right now, they feel emboldened to be bullies again, because they have a figurehead who was just elected President. Trust me, if I ever see in person some of the widespread incidents being reported all over the country in the days after Trump's election, they WILL be confronted by me. This person hasn't forgotten how you deal the bully on the playground.
Buddy, you have some serious anger issues and I would suggest you get some help. You are threatening to become the violence and hate that you are complaining about.
Who said anything about violence?? If you think I was referring to ACTUALLY punching someone in the nose as opposed to using the example of how things work on a playground when you're a child as a rhetorical device, then we have nothing to discuss.....
@jjstraka34 Do you get the feeling that I support Trump's campaign or the things he has said and done? If it hasn't been clear, I just want to set it for the record very clearly that I don't. I have, however, tried to have an open mind to the negatives and positives of both sides of this angry debate, and have chosen to give the benefit of the doubt to our new president (as I would have with Clinton as well, which I have already said). I apologize if speaking about what I have learned and believe as a result of this has offended you. It was not my intention to offend anyone here, and if I have, then I do apologize openly to anyone.
Edit: however, I do not apologize for calling anyone out who accuses people of being like Hitler or the Nazi's because they checked off a ballot box. On that point, I remain absolutely firm.
A friendly reminder to keep in mind the site rules.
When writing further comments, consider if you are critiquing politics or critiquing your fellow forumites. If it is the latter, then I suggest you do not post that comment.
"Non-Politically Correct" aka admitting to sexually assaulting women, spending 8 years undermining the legitimacy of the first African-American President, starting your campaign calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers, proposing a ban on an entire religion, and (worst of all) unleashing the worst elements of our society and giving them credibility.
I am so sick of this term. Political Correctness is a term that has been used to do ONE thing. It's a term people use because they're pissed off because they can no longer be assholes in public without people calling them out on it. They're the bullies who cry when someone finally punches them in the nose. And right now, they feel emboldened to be bullies again, because they have a figurehead who was just elected President. Trust me, if I ever see in person some of the widespread incidents being reported all over the country in the days after Trump's election, they WILL be confronted by me. This person hasn't forgotten how you deal the bully on the playground.
Buddy, you have some serious anger issues and I would suggest you get some help. You are threatening to become the violence and hate that you are complaining about.
Who said anything about violence?? If you think I was referring to ACTUALLY punching someone in the nose as opposed to using the example of how things work on a playground when you're a child as a rhetorical device, then we have nothing to discuss.....
So yeah he ran a nasty campaign (insert obnoxious Trump:"Wrong! " here right? )
People are pissed especially big city folk where often ratios of 60% Hillary to 38‰ for Trump. He lost big cities bigly. Most the national media operates out of big cities Trumptown, Kentucky where he won 60 to 38 with 1000 residents is not a place that is going to cause noise nationally regardless (like flint Michigan is usually mostly ignored for example)
I am *so* glad I took the day off, both from work and from here.
I can already see what is going to happen, though. When the Democrat nominee wins the election in 2020 (whoever that might be) people on the other side are going to hold protests, make signs saying NotMyPresident, scrawl obscene and/or racist graffiti on buildings, and so on and so forth. The genie is now out of the bottle and the pendulum in gaining in momentum--it will swing back a little more wildly next time.
The sad irony is that the Democrat and Republican Parties are pretty much one and the same these days--they both voted to attack Middle Eastern countries who did not attack us, they both voted to bail out "too big to fail" corporations, they both support things like warrantless wiretaps on citizens or random sweeps of license plate information looking for criminals, etc. All this emotional energy needs to be channeled into supporting a different choice next time like the Libertarian or Green Parties. No, don't officially join (unless you want to) but don't blindly follow blue/red because you self-identify as a blue/red person. Don't buy in to name-brand politics. Shop wisely and check out the other options before you buy. This blue/red nonsense is killing us.
I am *so* glad I took the day off, both from work and from here. I can already see what is going to happen, though. When the Democrat nominee wins the election in 2020 (whoever that might be) people on the other side are going to hold protests, make signs saying NotMyPresident, scrawl obscene and/or racist graffiti on buildings, and so on and so forth. The genie is now out of the bottle and the pendulum in gaining in momentum--it will swing back a little more wildly next time.
You have to be kidding. Are you seriously suggesting this didn't happen last time?? They spent the last 8 years trying to paint Obama as not being eligible for President. That was, literally, Donald Trump's initial foray into politics, the leader of the birther movement. Did you forget the Tea Party?? But yes, by all means, Democrats and liberals are just supposed to sit back and take it when, for the 2nd time in 16 years, the winner of the popular vote is denied the Presidency. And it's only happening to one side. And that is because if California had the same proportion of Electoral votes as Wyoming or North Dakota, it would have 199 of them instead of 55. The system is rigged, just not in the way everyone says it is.
People are on the streets because, in the end, Hillary Clinton is going to win the popular vote in this country by a million or more. Likely ending up at 52%. And her opponent, who not just a plurality of voters, but a MAJORITY of voters, opposed, is going to take the office. And yes, the Electoral College is the rule, but it is an archaic, ridiculous institution that has subverted the actual will of the people twice in the last 16 years. There is no such thing as the "popular vote" in any other Western country. It's just called "the vote".
Comments
Seriously, both you and jjstraka34 sound like you've each been spending far too long in your respective ideologies' echo chambers. While there are extremist elements out there, neither the Republican nor the Democrats are as over the top as the two of you are making them out to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Kalavryta
I am not left or right, I would classify my self as neutral or middle. I will speak out though when people try to associate ANYONE to monsters that committed genocide or acts of violence because of their religious beliefs or Ideologies.
If that offends anyone then I am guilty as charged.
No, they're not the same. Trump hasn't killed political opponents. It's a different world today than it was seventy years ago (and that's wonderful progress). But there are still similarities between them, and those similarities are enough to make people afraid.
Also--and this is important--when people say "neo-nazi", they're not making broad judgments using a buzzword to score political points. They're not talking about Nazi Germany and the Third Reich. They're talking about actual neo-nazis and white supremacists, people with swastika tattoos, people shouting "Sieg Heil" at Trump rallies.
And they're talking about Trump not condemning those people and their behavior except flippantly when cornered in an interview or on the debate stage.
So I get why you don't want people to minimize what Hitler was, you don't want people using the terms Nazi or Fascism inappropriately. But that's not what's happening here. Do you get that?
(I'm probably the most anti-communist person I know)
That said, I would not compare the Democratic party to communism any more than I would compare the Republican party to fascism or Nazism. Both parties remain committed to free and peaceful elections as a means of solving our problems.
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016/11/01/greek-anarchists-plan-to-welcome-obama-to-athens/
We all have nutjobs. I hope that none of you veer too far in the ideologies of your choice Dee.
The only thing about your post that comes near to offending me is your seeming insistence that others should follow certain rules of discourse that you seem to see no need to follow yourself.
Personally, I think calling Republicans "Nazis" or Democrats "Marxists" are both quite silly, but I'm not going to say that anyone should stop doing it if that's what they believe.
Hitler did. Stalin did. Mao did.
I guess I'm not conveying my message properly. I will work on it in the future.
It is just nonsense. And I AM going to say that we should stop saying this kind of stuff and come together as a nation. It is indicative of the naïveté born of our American privileges to compare the murdering of millions motivated by the flawed political philosophies of people in power in the past to the results of a peaceful, lawful, democratic election.
Ignorance leads to hatred, unless it is tempered by understanding.
But on the other hand, Michael Moore predicted that Trump would win, and he was right. So...
Look, all I'm saying is, to a lot of people, this election has resulted in three feelings:
1. Disappointment. Our candidate lost! That sucks! We're not going to get those policies we wanted!
2. Anger. Our candidate actually scored the most votes, nationwide! How the F is that democracy at work? (see also: "The Electoral College: How is this still a thing?")
3. Terror. The candidate who won has talked about shooting people and getting away with it, has talked about deportation forces and stop-and-frisk and building a wall, and his running mate thinks electro-shock therapy is a solution to "the gayness". He pays only lip service to the media asking him to condemn neo-nazis and the KKK endorsing him and committing violence at his rallies. He talks about loosening libel laws so that he can sue news outlets that say mean things about him. He talks about bringing back waterboarding, about murdering the families of suspected terrorists, about closing the country's borders based on religion. He's talked about putting Muslims into a registry so that they can be tracked.
The first feeling is normal, it's what anyone feels when their candidate loses, it's what Green Party and Libertarian voters are feeling right now as well.
The second feeling is unusual, but it's also normal. It's recognizing what may be a fundamental flaw in our democracy, and it's healthy, the first step toward fixing the problem.
The third feeling is deep, it's painful, it's probably what made us complacent about Trump in the first place. "There's no way he could be elected," we said to ourselves. "Just listen to the things he says."
A lot of folks are thinking that the people who are afraid are just exaggerating those first two feelings. But they're not. It's the third feeling that leads to thousands of people marching in protest, to the few small instances of riots and violence, that leads to people unfriending their own family members on Facebook.
Unlike most mass murderers, Mao killed most of his victims unintentionally; he expected the Great Leap Forward to boost production rather than induce massive famines. That's what happens when you get 18 Charisma, 3 Wisdom, and the world's largest population in your hands.
Hate begets Hate.
Violence begets Violence.
To the people who have felt marginalized, oppressed, and threatened by Trump's campaign, "we should stop saying this kind of stuff" isn't an option. Not yet.
When someone hits somebody else in the face with a baseball bat, and the other person starts fighting back, you don't just say "You two are friends now, play nice."
As Daniel Tiger says: Saying I'm sorry is the first step; then, How can I help?
47.7% of America is still waiting for an apology.
We are already sowing the seeds of what you fear ourselves. What Trump has said or condoned cannot get us to divide ourselves, because of years of laws and regulations birthed by our history of hatred, 50 years ago. How we respond to what he says definitely can.
By hating each other, and cutting off family ties, and destroying our friendships with each other, all based on something as minor as what is written on a ballot every 2-4 years.
If we wait for that before we take the initiative to start the healing process ourselves for our own benefit, we will be doomed to continue into a spiral of fear, anger, hatred, and violence.
Now I'm gonna play me some Trump..... I...I mean Tyranny.
But it doesn't change the fear. I've been doing my best to help people push through it to get to something productive. But ignoring that fear doesn't make it go away, and neither does pretending the fear is unwarranted.
Emporer Palpatine: "You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant."
One of my favorite lines in all of moviedom.
I am so sick of this term. Political Correctness is a term that has been used to do ONE thing. It's a term people use because they're pissed off because they can no longer be assholes in public without people calling them out on it. They're the bullies who cry when someone finally punches them in the nose. And right now, they feel emboldened to be bullies again, because they have a figurehead who was just elected President. Trust me, if I ever see in person some of the widespread incidents being reported all over the country in the days after Trump's election, they WILL be confronted by me. This person hasn't forgotten how you deal the bully on the playground.
Do you get the feeling that I support Trump's campaign or the things he has said and done?
If it hasn't been clear, I just want to set it for the record very clearly that I don't.
I have, however, tried to have an open mind to the negatives and positives of both sides of this angry debate, and have chosen to give the benefit of the doubt to our new president (as I would have with Clinton as well, which I have already said). I apologize if speaking about what I have learned and believe as a result of this has offended you. It was not my intention to offend anyone here, and if I have, then I do apologize openly to anyone.
Edit: however, I do not apologize for calling anyone out who accuses people of being like Hitler or the Nazi's because they checked off a ballot box. On that point, I remain absolutely firm.
When writing further comments, consider if you are critiquing politics or critiquing your fellow forumites. If it is the latter, then I suggest you do not post that comment.
People are pissed especially big city folk where often ratios of 60% Hillary to 38‰ for Trump. He lost big cities bigly. Most the national media operates out of big cities Trumptown, Kentucky where he won 60 to 38 with 1000 residents is not a place that is going to cause noise nationally regardless (like flint Michigan is usually mostly ignored for example)
I can already see what is going to happen, though. When the Democrat nominee wins the election in 2020 (whoever that might be) people on the other side are going to hold protests, make signs saying NotMyPresident, scrawl obscene and/or racist graffiti on buildings, and so on and so forth. The genie is now out of the bottle and the pendulum in gaining in momentum--it will swing back a little more wildly next time.
The sad irony is that the Democrat and Republican Parties are pretty much one and the same these days--they both voted to attack Middle Eastern countries who did not attack us, they both voted to bail out "too big to fail" corporations, they both support things like warrantless wiretaps on citizens or random sweeps of license plate information looking for criminals, etc. All this emotional energy needs to be channeled into supporting a different choice next time like the Libertarian or Green Parties. No, don't officially join (unless you want to) but don't blindly follow blue/red because you self-identify as a blue/red person. Don't buy in to name-brand politics. Shop wisely and check out the other options before you buy. This blue/red nonsense is killing us.
People are on the streets because, in the end, Hillary Clinton is going to win the popular vote in this country by a million or more. Likely ending up at 52%. And her opponent, who not just a plurality of voters, but a MAJORITY of voters, opposed, is going to take the office. And yes, the Electoral College is the rule, but it is an archaic, ridiculous institution that has subverted the actual will of the people twice in the last 16 years. There is no such thing as the "popular vote" in any other Western country. It's just called "the vote".