I use the NWN-style Higher HP's at level-up tweak in the BG2 Tweakpack of Gibberlings3 (http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2tweaks/cheats.php). You always get a roll in the second half (i.e. 3-4 on a D4 4-5 on a D6 etc.).
The same can be found in Icewind Dale's tweakpack http://www.gibberlings3.net/daletweak/ but on my last playthrough I decided to create a party that's intentionally gimped. They're all characters with some kind of weakness - at least compared to maxed-out characters (my main fighter has only STR 16, the Fighter dualed to Druid has STR 16, the Fighter-Cleric multi has WIS 13 etc.). So with their campaign, I stick with the first roll I've got (at least that was my intention, I can't remember if I really had the discipline to do so on every level-up).
In my P&P games we had a house rule whereby if you didn't like the hitpoint roll you got, you could roll again - but on a smaller dice! And you had to take the new roll (or go to an even smaller dice!).
So a fighter would roll D10 for hitpoints, and if they didn't like the roll they could reroll on a D8 instead. And then if they kept not liking the rolls they could go D6, D4 and finally D2 (a coin!).
It meant if you rolled terribly (e.g. a 1) then it was always worth rerolling. But a mid-range roll was generally worth keeping unless you were a real gambler!
It meant that we had a chance of getting the best rolls, while making it very unlikely to get a very poor roll.
I just don't like the game being more luck-based than it needs to be. That's not to say that I'm a powergamer, though. Generally if I don't want a character to have that much health, I give them extremely low Constitution.
@Karnor@atcDave I like that idea. But I would rather use a progressive mulligan instead. Reroll with a -1penalty, then a -2penalty, then -3penalty. Thus preserving the possibility of a really sucky HP result as an interesting plot development - but making it much more unlikely than results the BG engine randomly generates.
Oh our way definitely allows for terrible results, I've seen players get greedy and corner themselves into the coin toss at level up! But Eadwyn I think your method would work pretty much the same. It makes better results more likely, adds a little bit of gamey fun into the process, and still allows for the occasional really terrible result!
@Karnor@atcDave I like that idea. But I would rather use a progressive mulligan instead. Reroll with a -1penalty, then a -2penalty, then -3penalty. Thus preserving the possibility of a really sucky HP result as an interesting plot development - but making it much more unlikely than results the BG engine randomly generates.
@Son_of_Imoen: No, The penalty would only mean that you EEKeeper the HP total from a first [or second] mulligan roll to be 1 [or 2] less than your on-screen result at level-up.
Should have included maxing some rolls. I usually do two or three max HP levels, especially in a game where you are expected to start at level 1 like BG or IWD. Gotta have that cushion.
Should have included maxing some rolls. I usually do two or three max HP levels, especially in a game where you are expected to start at level 1 like BG or IWD. Gotta have that cushion.
Yeah... I thought I could handle whatever BG1 threw at me now that I am "experienced" and know what to do... but man BG1 is brutal at the beginning when every cave bear or ogre berserker can one-shot your best frontliner. Hence in order to make min-reload with personal restrictions viable, I had to allow myself to roll max for the first level up so that I had at least some combat reliability.
I used to reroll 1s, but now I always accept them, even if it's a front-line fighter like Kagain. It adds to the challenge-factor. Their HPs rolls usually regress toward the mean in the long run anyway.
I've never really thought about it, but I usually play on Easy to avoid spell scribing failure (for normal runs) or to obviate the need for Potions of Genius or Mind Focusing (for no-reload runs). If I actually had to choose, though, I'd pick max HP, since I like to know my characters are at their strongest. It feels lame to play a character that I know is flat-out inferior to a character I've played in the past.
I'd rather double enemy damage than cut my HP in half. The former doesn't feel like a nerf. The latter does. As for why I play on easy, which does neither... well, it's less hassle when dealing with spell scribing, and eliminating hassle is a high priority for me.
Bottom line, it's easier for me not to have to think about it. The impact on the game's difficulty is not the issue for me.
The difference is, most PNP DMs have some sort of house rule for re-rolling lousy HP rolls (like one or two re-rolls in the life of a character, or unlimited re-rolls on a smaller die); but combat rolls are a different story.
And of course, P&P games the DM can balance encounters so as not to, for example, have a level 1 party with average of 4 hitpoints run into a basilisk within the first 4 hours of the campaign and not force a party with mediocre stats to face improbable challenges.
Also what we used to do in P&P is that when you hit 0 to -10hp you'd roll a system shock and if you passed you were simply "unconscious". Below -10 you were dead, but it gave low level parties a little more breathing room to survive.
Really it all depends on your definition of "fun". I mostly play through to enjoy the story with different characters and NPCs not so much "challenge" runs. Quite honestly I think most of the strategies the power-gamer no-reload types use are generally cheese or total metagame knowledge and without either a no-reload of any of these games would be next to impossible. Not to take away anything from that, but still, if your argument is "I'm trying to role play", it flies out the window when you look in the spot you know there's a trap for a trap, or if you pre-buff for a battle or enemy that your characters would have no idea was coming.
@hispls: Very true about the basilisks and the no-reload thing. It's really not realistic to do a no-reload run of BG or BG2 without metagaming. The game was not designed to be beatable without reloads, unlike a PnP campaign. You really do need to know the challenges in advance to be able to overcome them.
Depends on my mood. If I want a lighthearted fun game with little challenge (a "junk food" game) I'll go with full HP and auto-learning spells. Sometimes you just want to kick the crap out of some encounters. ^_~
If I want a challenge, here's how I do HP (including in tabletop roleplaying): reroll 1's. Nobody likes to roll a 1 on HP, that's less than a thief or cleric gets past level 10 in 2nd edition. If it's a 2, I keep it with grumbling. That's my one exception to core rules, aside from that everything else plays as-is on my serious runs.
I always go for max HP, but I also mod creatures to have max HP (BG2Tweaks, I think?). I don't view it as cheating; rather, I think of it as replacing one more aspect of luck with strategy.
I always go for max HP, but I also mod creatures to have max HP (BG2Tweaks, I think?). I don't view it as cheating; rather, I think of it as replacing one more aspect of luck with strategy.
I really don't like having very little HP , especially at the beginning of BGEE, since it makes the game far too random for my taste.
I have 3 ways to deal with that: - max hp at level up - reload for the first 2-3 levels until I get an above-average roll. - reload in case of rolling 1 for a mage, 1-2 for clerics and thiefs, 1-2-3 for warriors.
@subtledoctor: The way I've heard it described, the rationale behind max HP for both the player and the enemy is that it decreases the luck factor somewhat. You're less likely to win a fight through good luck alone, and less likely to lose a fight through bad luck alone, if there's a larger HP pool for everyone involved. It's considered more strategic because luck doesn't play quite as large a role. It does make Power Word spells weaker on the whole, however.
Comments
The same can be found in Icewind Dale's tweakpack http://www.gibberlings3.net/daletweak/ but on my last playthrough I decided to create a party that's intentionally gimped. They're all characters with some kind of weakness - at least compared to maxed-out characters (my main fighter has only STR 16, the Fighter dualed to Druid has STR 16, the Fighter-Cleric multi has WIS 13 etc.). So with their campaign, I stick with the first roll I've got (at least that was my intention, I can't remember if I really had the discipline to do so on every level-up).
Damn you Skyrim. Damn you!
So a fighter would roll D10 for hitpoints, and if they didn't like the roll they could reroll on a D8 instead. And then if they kept not liking the rolls they could go D6, D4 and finally D2 (a coin!).
It meant if you rolled terribly (e.g. a 1) then it was always worth rerolling. But a mid-range roll was generally worth keeping unless you were a real gambler!
It meant that we had a chance of getting the best rolls, while making it very unlikely to get a very poor roll.
But Eadwyn I think your method would work pretty much the same. It makes better results more likely, adds a little bit of gamey fun into the process, and still allows for the occasional really terrible result!
Playing a Barbarian. No. No I don't.
I'd rather double enemy damage than cut my HP in half. The former doesn't feel like a nerf. The latter does. As for why I play on easy, which does neither... well, it's less hassle when dealing with spell scribing, and eliminating hassle is a high priority for me.
Bottom line, it's easier for me not to have to think about it. The impact on the game's difficulty is not the issue for me.
Also what we used to do in P&P is that when you hit 0 to -10hp you'd roll a system shock and if you passed you were simply "unconscious". Below -10 you were dead, but it gave low level parties a little more breathing room to survive.
Really it all depends on your definition of "fun". I mostly play through to enjoy the story with different characters and NPCs not so much "challenge" runs. Quite honestly I think most of the strategies the power-gamer no-reload types use are generally cheese or total metagame knowledge and without either a no-reload of any of these games would be next to impossible. Not to take away anything from that, but still, if your argument is "I'm trying to role play", it flies out the window when you look in the spot you know there's a trap for a trap, or if you pre-buff for a battle or enemy that your characters would have no idea was coming.
If I want a challenge, here's how I do HP (including in tabletop roleplaying): reroll 1's. Nobody likes to roll a 1 on HP, that's less than a thief or cleric gets past level 10 in 2nd edition. If it's a 2, I keep it with grumbling. That's my one exception to core rules, aside from that everything else plays as-is on my serious runs.
I have 3 ways to deal with that:
- max hp at level up
- reload for the first 2-3 levels until I get an above-average roll.
- reload in case of rolling 1 for a mage, 1-2 for clerics and thiefs, 1-2-3 for warriors.