I don't like the trap option, so I think I'll avoid using clones for that purpose--testing found that the traps do in fact function correctly, and a set of 4 normal traps and one spike trap was sufficient to bring Abazigal to Injured, and lightly damage Balthazar as well. It seems like it takes a moment for Abazigal to get his Stoneskins.
A Protection from Magic scroll will prevent some of Sendai's spellcasting, but it won't stop her from casting Freedom on an Imprisoned Balthazar, nor will it stop her Heal Contingency, or her sequencers, and it seems like she can either retain or refresh a Stoneskin spell despite the Protection from Magic scroll. She can also still teleport, which further complicates things. The scroll might still neutralize her as an offensive threat, and setting traps to the north could slay her when she tries to run and her Stoneskins are down.
The weird thing is that Sendai has no Freedom spell either in her spellbook or her script. But somehow she could still cast the spell to free Balthazar. I have no explanation for this.
Abazigal is another candidate for the Protection from Magic scroll. He's an aggressive debuffer, but maybe we just need to spend more resources on our defenses. In the last two test runs, I've been hesitant to use buff spells during the fight with the Five out of an instinct to conserve our resources, but really, I only need so many resources for Melissan herself, since we'll be using flashers on her. The scroll would reduce him to a fighter-type role, and unlike Sendai, he cannot teleport, rendering him relatively ineffective. Still, he should be easier to debuff than Sendai. We can, of course, use the Wand of Lightning trick to hit EVERYONE with the Protection from Magic scroll, but that wouldn't be very interesting, much like the trap option. Perhaps we could have Nalia use Improved Alacrity to debuff Abazigal, though I've long been leery of using Improved Alacrity in SCS2, as it can't be used by clones in my install, and I want to preserve those spells for clone summoning.
I was wrong on Illasera. She cripples the party. Her arrows dispel magic as a level 30 spell. They also tack on 40% spell failure for 3 rounds. Both effects are unacceptable. Only PFMW will block this, because somehow we don't have the Shield of Reflection. We therefore must take down Illasera within the first four rounds of combat. This will require Jan's attention, unless we make Illasera the focus of our trap setting.
Nobody in this fight has Remove Magic, nor is it mentioned in anybody's scripts. All Sendai has is Dispel Magic, which she casts at level 20. This means we could free up our 5th-level spell slots for Spell Shield rather than SI: Abjuration, or use SI: Evocation to ward off Solar Stance. Sendai does have True Seeing, which would warrant SI: Divination, but I believe a Protection from Magic scroll would prevent this.
Perhaps a better plan would be to kill Illasera with pre-set Spike Traps, have Haer'dalis kill Yaga-Shura during Time Trap with DEX drain, use the Protection from Magic scroll on Sendai, and then spawn in some clones to debuff Abazigal. Once Abazigal is dead, we must kill Sendai to make sure Melissan's saves are high enough for us to stun her. Balthazar and Gromnir can be killed or ignored, but not Imprisoned, as Melissan will cast Freedom on them.
All right. I've gone over the matter in my head and I've decided not to sweat the no-reload aspect.
I've done two test runs already to check a few things, and I've wondered how many test runs are really acceptable before you break the challenge of the no-reload run, since they let you try out new things with no cost or risk. Plus, I don't like the idea of doing lots of test runs and then still dying due to another unforeseen factor.
Instead, I'm just going to try it out once more, to see if I can do it without reloading. If it doesn't work out, then I'll just try again until it works. It might not be a no-reload run anymore, but it would save me a big headache from all the anticipation. It's best just to jump in, and if the no-reload run fails, we can always finish the adventure as a normal game. I still have a successful run of SoA, so I can at least feel good about that.
On further thought, I've decided my current battle plan was flawed. Abazigal and Balthazar are too hard to kill. Their AC is fantastic, they have great regeneration (Balthazar regenerates 48 HP per round), and they have a tremendous HP pool. It's not realistic to expect to take both of them down, not in the time frame we need. But how can we let them stick around without spending lots of PFMW spells to keep them off our backs?
Instead of using PFMW, we can stack Teleport Field spells to keep them at bay. Neither of them has ranged weapons, and two Teleport Fields on top of one another will frustrate their efforts dramatically, limiting them to maybe 2 APR in the best of circumstances, and that's if i don't move around to cause more trouble for them. Teleport Field is almost as good as PFMW when archers are not an issue, and has the advantage of being party-wide and lasting 10 rounds instead of 4. Plus, we can memorize many more, and it won't be taken down by Breach.
With this barrier of safety, we can stun-lock Melissan as planned. Once she's stunned, we can Imprison Balthazar, and neither Melissan nor Sendai will be there to free him. Abazigal will run out of his debuffers (he has two Secret Word spells and two Breach spells), Balthazar won't even be there to debuff us, and Melissan's Breach spells will be out of commission. Gromnir, meanwhile, can just be killed on the side; his defenses aren't too strong.
As for the others, Illasera will die with 5 normal traps and three Comet or Dragon's Breath spells, Yaga-Shura will die from DEX drain during our initial Time Trap, and Sendai will be hit with our Protection from Magic scroll, as planned. Melissan will be tougher to kill without Abazigal and Balthazar dead, since she'll need +5 weapons to hit, gets an extra 15% to her physical damage resistance, and has 200 more HP, but the stun-lock should be sufficient regardless.
So the giant dies from DEX drain when time is stopped, the archer dies from traps and HLAs, the cleric/mage has her magic shut down and is killed later, the fighter/mage is tanked and perhaps killed with DEX drain at our convenience, the monk is ignored and then Imprisoned, the barbarian is killed whenever we feel like it, and Melissan herself is stun-locked by flashers and then mobbed. We shroud ourselves in Teleport Fields to ward off melee attacks, maintain and renew spell protections to protect our normal buffs, and deal with ranged attacks by bumping off the only enemy archer.
We also have some secret weapons, if we're not shy about using them. But launching 36 level 9 mage spells in a single round is merely a backup plan.
I tested Imprisonment on Balthazar and it worked... because I had a custom item equipped to make it cast instantly, so it wouldn't get interrupted. Sounds like it could work if we timed it right, assuming Lunar Stance is limited by his aura, but it's not safe anyway.
Well, we've got nothing to fight Balthazar with, aside from hoping for miraculous rolls round after round. We can't get automatic hits because he's immune to Time Stop, we can't kill him with DEX drain because he's immune to +2 weapons, and we can't hope to overcome his regeneration and kill him in any realistic period of time, unless we stack a bunch of bard songs for damage boosts. He shouldn't even be fighting us in the first place, since he agreed to support us.
I'll just work around him instead. If he uses Flip Resistances, perhaps I could Maze him. Or lure him to the side with Sil, and turn into the Ravager after casting PFMW. Or, if I decide to use exploits, I could have Jan spawn in six clones and lay six Spike Traps. But more likely, I'll just have him harassing us for the entire battle.
I tested Imprisonment on Balthazar and it worked... because I had a custom item equipped to make it cast instantly, so it wouldn't get interrupted. Sounds like it could work if we timed it right, assuming Lunar Stance is limited by his aura, but it's not safe anyway.
Yes. He's vulnerable to Imprisonment if he isn't running Lunar Stance. He's also vulnerable to Time Stop if he isn't running Lunar Stance. Catching him with either Imprisonment or Time Stop is possible, if tricky. A zero casting time would help immensely.
In my experience, the easiest way to catch him in a Time Stop is to use opening Time Traps. Have we considered using our opening Time Traps to kill Balthazar instead of Yaga? Would that work, or has David pre-buffed Balthazar with Lunar Stance in your edition? Balthazar can't be dex drained like Yaga can, but BBoD+Belm (or Kundane)+Improved Haste+Assasination (or Mislead) will fix him just as quickly, assuming you can Time Trap him.
Testing with Time Trap found no Lunar Stance pre-buff, which is odd because I've seen Balthazar ignore Time Trap before... maybe because it wasn't close enough to anybody, and he had a moment to use Lunar Stance before it triggered. That's why I hadn't considered targeting Balthazar during the Time Trap; I had thought he was innately immune to it.
We've got no Belm, since it was lost in a fight with vampires a while back, but we do have the Scarlet Ninja-to, and Jan has Black Blade of Disaster in his book for precisely this occasion. He also has Time Stop, which we can chain with Time Trap.
Real life intruded, so I only have the report on the first part of the battle. We are not at Melissan and the Five, but we are very close.
First, I have Aerie cast Shapechange, and have Haer'dalis do so as well, with a scroll. I kill both, rest, and raise them with the Rod of Resurrection. This is how you perform the Shapechange trick, which grants permanent access to all of Shapechange's forms. I don't really need to do this, but it's much more convenient. Haer'dalis is our best candidate for using the flashers, as his spells, which Shapechange will block, are less useful than Jan's. Haer'dalis will be using Mind Flayer form to fire the flashers. He'll get the same 4 APR as he would with spider form, but he will have 90% MR and 50% resistance to physical damage, overriding his innate resistances but stacking with the Jansen Adventureware, making him a very sturdy target. The downside is that this decreases his STR to 10, and prevents him from carrying multiple stacks of flashers. Aerie's Shapechange abilities aren't needed at all--but if I'm going to give them to Haer'dalis, I may as well do it for her. It frees up a spell slot for Wish, which isn't reliable enough for a no-reload run anyway.
Next, I reconfigure our contingencies and sequencers, and finally scribe our one remaining Spell Trigger scroll into Aerie's spellbook, and our Chain Contingency scroll into Jan's. I'd been saving these scrolls to make sure I knew exactly who wanted them.
Haer'dalis and Jan have the standard Shocking Grasp+Mirror Image Minor Sequencers that I've been using for the spider gnome strategy since the beginning of the run. The other Minor Sequencers are all defensive. Aerie's has two Armor of Faith spells, which will make her nearly invincible in Mind Flayer or Iron Golem form. The others have Mirror Image and Blur, and in Sil's case, Chant.
The Spell Sequencers are all filled with Teleport Field and Stoneskin, plus Greater Malison for some of the characters. This will ensure us fast casting for the Teleport Field spells that might be interrupted by, say, Solar Stance. Greater Malison is there for stun-locking Melissan, as it saves us some 4th-level spell slots. And Stoneskin is just there to save rounds on renewing it.
We only have two Spell Triggers. Aerie's contains Righteous Magic, Tenser's Transformation, and SI: Abjuration. Although Aerie is not a critical part of our strategy, this will make her very dangerous when in Iron Golem form, with -7 THAC0 and fighter-grade damage output for 20 rounds. With her Minor Sequencer pre-cast and the Defender of Easthaven in her off hand, she will also have 90% physical damage resistance and immunity to magic, with SI: Abjuration to block Breach. Sil's meanwhile, is a rescue option: Heal, PFMW, and Improved Haste.
Everyone's Contingency is set to PFMW, on hit. Imoen, Nalia, and Jan's Chain Contingencies have SI: Divination with two Project Image spells, for safe clone spawning, while Sil's brings out Stoneskin, PFMW, and Spell Turning, another rescue option.
Our spellbooks:
We stock up on Stoneskin, PFMW, Spell Immunity, Spellstrike, Pierce Shield, Maze, Project Image, and Simulacrum. Otherwise we have the same buffs as normal: Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, Stoneskin, four Blur spells apiece, Spell Shield, and Protection from Evil, Petrification, Electricity, Fire, and Magical Energy.
We don't need Breach with five fully-charged Wands of Spell Striking, hence the lack of Breach spells. Lower Resistance shares levels with Spell Immunity, so we'll lower Melissan's MR with Pierce Shield and the Wand of Spell Striking instead. The Wand of Spell Striking's Pierce Magic ability doesn't actually take down spell protections for some reason, though it does strike as a level 6 spell and can burn through them, hence the need for Spellstrike. In my install, mage HLAs are once-per-day innate abilities rather than mage spells, and Time Stop has few uses in this fight, so 9th-level spell slots are wide open for Spellstrike. Maze is just there to give us breathing room.
The simulacra are not there to save us spells, or to use scrolls. They are there to serve as cannon fodder and to deal damage. Project Image, of course, is to save on high-level spells, namely debuffers when we deal with Abazigal.
And Sil has Wish spells. They're not part of our strategy, but if things go to hell, some lucky Wish options could change the course of the battle.
With our spellbooks in order, we head through the doorway.
Imoen is forcibly transformed into a hostile Slayer. Irenicus, Bodhi, and a Fallen Solar make up the first phase of combat. Bodhi is a non-issue, as we have pre-buffed with Protection from Undead, but the Fallen Solar, I understand, can use Arrows of Dispelling, and Irenicus is Irenicus.
We begin with a disabler.
It only buys us a moment of time, however, though it does do a lot to weaken the Fallen Solar. Notice the fired Chain Contingency from Sil. That was supposed to be an escape option; why is it triggering now? Well, inspired by @Alesia_BH's example, I set up all of our Contingencies, and Sil's Chain Contingency, to trigger on hit, which I didn't even realize was an option for a contingency condition (you have to scroll up to see it, on the contingency screen). I thought it would trigger when the caster was hit by a weapon, indicating their Stoneskins and PFMW spells weren't keeping them safe. But apparently any hostile act that makes contact can trigger such a contingency.
So all of our contingencies stand to be triggered early, when we don't need them.
Despite our attempts to disable Irenicus, he manages to get a Time Stop spell off the ground. He does have a bonus to casting speed.
He casts True Seeing, robbing us of our Blur spells. He also debuffs Jan and then disables him with Power Word: Stun. Things are looking bad for the long-time star of the Party of Spiders.
Worse yet, it triggers his Chain Contingency, as he's been rendered helpless.
But he doesn't spawn any clone. It destroyed Jan's contingency completely; we got absolutely nothing from it. Notice Aerie's Storm of Vengeance, conjured in the hopes of fiddling with Jon-bon's spellcasting. Also notice our Planetar's telltale cloud just now coalescing. Our failure to harm the Fallen Solar after Dragon's Breath indicated we needed some help, and we get a rest after the next fight anyway, so using up one of our many Summon Planetar spells won't be a big loss. Also notice Haer'dalis has been debuffed.
The Fallen Solar turns invisible and casts Heal when we start to make progress on it, and Jan is too busy to remove its invisibility in time. We're trying to bring down the Fallen Solar, and it's preventing us from debuffing and killing Irenicus. Worse, Haer'dalis gets charmed, and if that wasn't enough, it turns out a Planetar can't harm a Fallen Solar, as its +3 weapon doesn't have a high enough enchantment to hit the Fallen Solar. We need +4 weapons to hurt it.
With our Planetar more or less useless, we try to have it remove Haer'dalis charm.
No such luck. We continue to struggle against Irenicus and the Fallen Solar. Eventually the Planetar has a positive impact, killing Bodhi shortly after Imoen recovered and used another Protection from Undead to keep Bodhi off her back.
I was worried about how we were going to kill her. She regenerates 10 HP per second. That's 60 HP per round, even more than a Greater Wolfwere. But vorpal strikes make regeneration a moot point.
Eventually we find the time to hit Irenicus with Spellstrike. He doesn't last long after that. From there, we gather some buffs and put enough pressure on the Fallen Solar to bring it down.
With the first battle over, we have some space to prepare fro the next. Activating each green pool on the map will spawn in a whole bunch of demons. When the demons are dead, you can activate the green pool again, which rests the whole party and gives Charname a special power. This includes Unleash, a damage spell, Control Demon, which I assume lets you charm a demon (normally uncharmable critters), though the spell files doesn't look like it, and Focus, which grants Charname immunity to disintegration, petrification, and Time Stop, for 30 seconds. It can be cast every 60 seconds. And since Melissan will use Whirlwind Attack during Time Stop, and can teleport as well, Focus can prevent an otherwise inevitable death.
Mostly I'm concerned with that free rest. It allows us to re-memorize our contingency spells and switch them back to my standard condition, at 50% HP. Also, it lets us splurge on preparations for the next battle. We conjure a bunch of summons, add a few buffs, and a lay a few traps via Jan's simulacrum. This puts us in a much better position for fighting the first group of demons.
Behind that Planetar is a simulacrum of Aerie's, pre-buffed with a couple of Armor of Faith spells. She can turn into an Iron Golem and block the bridge to the mainland, keeping most of the demons at bay simply by virtue of her big circle, though her HP and physical resistances won't be enough to hold them off for long. She changes shape once Sil has activated the pool and retreated to the main platform.
The battle progresses well--they're mostly just melee enemies, who usually aren't a big issue for us--but we see a chilling message from Jan's clone offscreen.
Vorpal hits from a fighter-type enemy. This could be messy. We keep the party away from the pool, and focus on killing an invisible Succubus that sprung up on us. I'm not a big fan of Succubi. We leave Aerie's and Sil's clone and our Planetar to deal with the Balor. They do a pretty good job without our help.
When we have trouble damaging the Succubus or the Cambions, we bring out an HLA to knock them down. The Planetar gets a vorpal hit on the Succubus.
The battle is over soon after. The clones are a dramatic boost to our power. Simulacrum has always been more useful to thieves and fighters than it is to mages or priests, since the level drop does so much more to weaken spellcasters. Plus, simulacra get all of the normal thief and fighter HLAs, while spellcaster HLAs are confined to spell slots.
We lay some more traps, add some buffs, cast our new contingencies, summon some clones and critters, and lay our traps once more for the next battle before activating the pool again and restoring our spells. I want to extract all the benefit I can from those rest periods. This time, we can see the effects of the traps more clearly.
One charge from the Wand of Spell Striking and a few Energy Blades, and that Marilith is gone. The others don't last much longer.
I finish re-casting Nalia's Chain Contingency, which I forgot to make room for earlier on, and prepare for the third and final group of demons. Jan doesn't have all of his Spike Traps back yet, so his clone can only lay one. Jan backstabs his clone to make room for a new simulacrum.
It doesn't work. Simulacrum won't let you conjure a new simulacrum until after the spell duration is over, not when the clone dies.
Either way, we can't continue. Real life intruded. I'll have to begin again tomorrow.
Well, inspired by @Alesia_BH's example, I set up all of our Contingencies, and Sil's Chain Contingency, to trigger on hit, which I didn't even realize was an option for a contingency condition (you have to scroll up to see it, on the contingency screen). I thought it would trigger when the caster was hit by a weapon, indicating their Stoneskins and PFMW spells weren't keeping them safe. But apparently any hostile act that makes contact can trigger such a contingency.
Yuppers. Contingency: Hit doesn't work the way most of us would expect it to or want it to. It's still useful though. I and others on the Bioware forum have taken to using it when we want contingencies that we can readily trigger ourselves. For example, I sometimes use Chain Contingency: Hit- Sunfire x3, Contingency: Hit- Sunfire, Spell Trigger- Sunfire x3 to create a septuple Sunfire. In his Arcane Army run, Grond0 used Chain Contingency- Hit to precision time release of Chain Contingency- Wilting x 3s. It's great for those applications.
Control Demon, which I assume lets you charm a demon (normally uncharmable critters), though the spell files doesn't look like it.
Yuppers. Control Demon lets you dominate demons. It can be very powerful if used correctly, as Saros has shown, but it can also get you killed. There is a one round mental battle between the caster and the demon, during which time the caster is frozen and vulnerable. I'm glad Sil didn't try it without knowing what to expect!
@Alesia_BH: We have indeed been playing on normal. It's my default setting, and it saves us the trouble of fiddling with Potions of Genius when we want to memorize spells. I understand there are more enemies, including two Fallen Solars, on higher difficulty levels, but I saw no reason to bump up the difficulty after having played through SoA on Normal.
@Alesia_BH: We have indeed been playing on normal. It's my default setting, and it saves us the trouble of fiddling with Potions of Genius when we want to memorize spells. I understand there are more enemies, including two Fallen Solars, on higher difficulty levels, but I saw no reason to bump up the difficulty after having played through SoA on Normal.
Understood. That's cool. No judgements. I was just curious.
Well, we took on Melissan and the Five, including the Balthazar that shouldn't have been there.
The last group of demons was no trouble at all, though I inadvertently conjured some Skeletons instead of Skeleton Warriors, which slightly weakened our front line. No matter; the demons went down quickly under melee and ranged pressure.
We still had two rest periods left, but they were largely redundant, as I had decided not to lay more than seven traps or summon more than five critters. It did, however, let me cast a ridiculous number of buffs without losing any spell slots: Protection from Petrification, Shield, Blur x4 (except for Aerie, who didn't have time), Protection from Fire, Protection from Cold, Stoneskin, Spell Shield, SI: Divination, SI: Abjuration, Protection from Magical Energy, Spell Turning, Remove Fear, Death Ward, Protection from Lightning, Chaotic Commands. Jan and Haer'dalis both have drunk two Potions of Invulnerability and one Potion of Storm Giant Strength. I forgot to have Sil drink a Potion of Magic Protection for immunity to magic. Aerie has Shield of the Archons, on top of Spell Turning, and Aerie, Nalia, and Imoen all have Energy Blades on hand. Finally, Haer'dalis has Improved Haste active, and one Mislead clone to sing for us.
I've really gone all out on our buffs, having realized that the true danger in this battle is not Melissan, but the Five. It's better to fight the Five while fully buffed, and face Melissan when our buffs are running out, than the other way around.
Jan also had Improved Haste active, plus a Black Blade of Disaster, cast via a scroll rather than a spell slot to make room for a second Time Stop spell. Everyone but Haer'dalis had a simulacrum active.
Each simulacrum had SI: Divination and SI: Abjuration to protect its Stoneskin and Blur spells. Jan has five normal traps near Illasera's spawn point. He also has a Time Trap, only one, nearby. Haer'dalis also has a Time Trap, far to the north. The summons are only there because we got a rest period--they have no particular purpose, though I suspected the Planetar's True Seeing spell could be useful.
Sil activates the second pool, resting the whole party, and we each add one more spell in the limited time we have left--mostly, just a fifth Blur spell. Melissan spawns in her minions: Sendai, with her many mage buffs and cleric healing spells; Yaga-Shura, with his stupendous regeneration and 99% resistance to all forms of damage besides cold; Abazigal, with his massive damage output, subterranean AC, and arcane defensive spells; Balthazar, with his Greater Werewolf-style regeneration, nigh-unhittable AC, and unique innate abilities; and Illasera, with +5 Arrows of Dispelling and fighter HLAs. Jan's traps go off, stopping time.
Sil's clone has pre-cast Focus, but I forgot about her and didn't bother to see if she could take action while time was stopped. Jan is alone.
Jan's Time Trap only lasts 10 seconds. That's not enough time to do what we need to do. But we have a solution for that.
We now have 18 seconds, a full 3 rounds. Jan casts Mislead and slips behind Balthazar, who thankfully does not pre-cast Lunar Stance. With the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization and Kundane in his off hand, and Improved Haste as a pre-buff, he has 7 backstabs per round, 5 of which can hit Balthazar. Balthazar doesn't stand a chance. He goes down in four hits.
Jan scurries over to deal with Yaga-Shura, only to realize that he can't use the Chaos Blade--he's still got the Black Blade of Disaster glued to his hand.
But we have a solution for that, too. Jan activates his Minor Sequencer, casting Mirror Image and Shocking Grasp, dispelling his Black Blade of Disaster and allowing him to equip the Chaos Blade. Yaga-Shura goes down.
With the little time he has left, Jan hits Sendai, still fully visible, with a Protection from Magic scroll. Two of the Five are dead, and a third is neutralized.
Next up are Abazigal and, more importantly, Illasera. I think I can take down Illasera before she hits anybody, so I don't bother casting PFMW on any of my characters. Instead, we rush at her, with Nalia casting Dragon's Breath and Imoen casting Comet, so both HLAs hit simultaneously. Meanwhile, I have three of our clones target Abazigal with the Wand of Spell Striking. Two Pierce Magic charges will burn through his Spell Turning, making room for a Breach.
Dragon's Breath and Comet hit Illasera at the same time. Between Imoen and Nalia's HLAs, Jan's traps, and the combined pressure of all our party members, plus all of our simulacra, Illasera cannot stand.
Jan, meanwhile, has been hassling Sendai. She flees the area, to the north, and triggers Haer'dalis' Time Trap, which I had set in case Jan wasn't able to take down Yaga-Shura.
Jan has already given both the Answerer and the Chaos Blade to Haer'dalis. Haer'dalis picks the Answerer and attacks Abazigal, whose PFMW has already been removed. With the automatic hits granted by Time Trap, Haer'dalis adds roughly a +10 penalty to Abazigal's AC, and breaks through his Stoneskins, to boot.
Without his incredible AC, Abazigal is defenseless. We can hit him even on bad rolls, and this is with a party of mages.
The Answerer, again, is woefully unappreciated. With a caster-heavy party, the AC penalties are a dramatic boost to our damage output. Abazigal collapses.
Only one of the Five remains, and she's all but helpless.
Her contingencies still work, but they're not enough.
Soon, Sendai is at Near Death. We take a round off to refresh our SI: Divination spells.
Then we descend upon Sendai, and the last of the Five falls.
Melissan prepares to join the fight. The computer freezes here.
I don't want to repeat that whole process all over again, particularly since reloading causes clones to lose their quickslot items--we'd need an extra round to debuff Abazigal thanks to the crash and the resulting reload.
Rather than repeat the whole battle, I decide to remove the Five with CTRL-Y, which will expedite Melissan's arrival. There are some resources I expended to get this far, but I can just refrain from using them. We've already used up two Spell Immunity spells and one Blur spell per character, a couple of charges from the Wand of Spell Striking, Jan's Minor Sequencer, a Pierce Shield and Spellstrike spell, both of Jan's Time Stops, a scroll of Black Blade of Disaster, and a scroll of Protection from Magic. Our Spell Immunity and Simulacrum spells were fresh, but the only summon we had left was a Skeleton Warrior.
To make sure our clones last as long as they should, I have hit them with CTRL-Y, only to find that I couldn't summon new ones. I decide to go on ahead anyway. Our buffs will last longer, but we will have to fight Melissan without clones, which I think balances out. Neither our buffs nor our clones are very important, anyway--our strategy for Melissan doesn't need them.
This time, Melissan spawns in correctly when the Five are dead. The final phase has begun.
We maintain a safe distance, with some new summons to hold the fort. Haer'dalis switches to Mind Flayer form, while the others hit Melissan with Spellstrike, Pierce Shield, and a couple of Pierce Magic charges from the Wand of Spell Striking. Sil remains inactive for fear that she might need to cast Focus or PFMW, and be caught off-guard.
Our Skeleton Warrior is in poor shape, having taken the first of Melissan's attacks, so we draw it aside so Aerie can heal it with the Rod of Resurrection. Haer'dalis activates his Minor Sequencer, dispelling the Mind Flayer attack weapon with Shocking Grasp, and removing the Shocking Grasp by attacking his Mislead clone. He equips Firetooth and a single stack of flashers. Imoen casts Greater Malison.
Now Melissan's saves are penalized, her MR is at zero, she's busy dealing with our summons, and we have a convenient target for Haer'dalis' flashers: the Skeleton Warrior.
Haer'dalis has 8 attacks per round, and near-guaranteed hits on the Skeleton Warrior. Melissan has to make over 8 saves vs. spell per round. She fails.
Now she's out for 2 rounds. We get ready for the attack.
Sil casts Boon of Lathander and starts attacking with the Sling of Everard and Bullets +4, generated by the Erinne Sling. Aerie runs over to Melissan's side and switches to Iron Golem form. Nalia casts Improved Haste on Aerie, forgetting that Aerie's Spell Turning would block it, while Jan casts Improved Haste on himself, and runs over with the Answerer and Kundane. If Melissan recovers her senses, she will have very poor AC when it happens.
Melissan fails another save.
Sil casts Improved Haste, and Aerie activates her Spell Trigger, casting Righteous Magic, Tenser's Transformation, and SI: Abjuration. The others continue attacking as before.
Melissan makes her saves for the next two rounds, only to find herself vulnerable. She's already at Badly Injured, and we have near-automatic hits.
She fails one more save, and when she recovers, she's at Near Death. After another round of pressure, the Solar finally interrupts.
Melissan has fallen. The battle is won.
I haven't even thought about whether Sil should become a god or stay mortal. I decide to keep things simple.
Sil and company have triumphed over both Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal, with SCS2 and Ascension, without reloading. Thanks to @Alesia_BH, @Blackraven, Jan, and everyone else who has helped make this run a success.
I especially appreciated your use of The Answerer and Jan's Flashers. Noted.
I was surprised that Mel didn't arrive until after the last of the 5 was dead. In my experience, on core and above, she arrives after one of the 5 has fallen. On normal, she arrives after two. I wonder what accounts for the difference between our installs?
I appreciate the support, everybody. I'm very happy with how this went.
I don't know why Melissan only appeared after all of the Five were dead. It may have had something to do with the Time Stop, or the DEX drain kill, or it might have just been a fluke. The battle could have gotten more complicated had Melissan arrived earlier, though it wouldn't have been that much harder.
We did have tons of resources left over, with most of our strongest spells still intact, including all of our Summon (Fallen) Planetar spells. Each party member had Spell Shield and Spell Turning, with the exception of Haer'dalis, who only had the former, and Aerie, who also had Shield of the Archons. A good defensive barrier, in the scheme of things. 12 rounds of PFMW across the board, 2 spare Spell Immunity spells apiece, some PFMW and Absolute Immunity scrolls, three Rods of Resurrection... we saved up a lot for this fight.
Oh, and the secret weapon I mentioned... Sil could use the Wand of Lightning trick to summon 6 Project Image clones at once, and the clones could use their own Wands of Lightning to cast Wish 6 times, as well, for 36 Wish spells in one round, which we could do twice for each of Sil's three Project Image spells. That would be a guaranteed reset if things went wrong, but it would entail using a game-breaking exploit. I'd rather win it without the Wand of Lightning, as much as I love that trick.
The best thing to do, if Melissan returned right after Jan's Time Stop, would be to take down Illasera early on, as before, ignoring Abazigal. We'd keep Melissan off our backs with PFMW, then start chasing down Sendai. Once Sendai was gone, we could concentrate on stunning Melissan, using Teleport Field to keep Abazigal at bay (Melissan is immune to Teleport Field) rather than spending valuable time killing him.
Speaking of stunning Melissan, I realized earlier that we could have stunned Melissan longer and more reliably using the Improved Alacrity+Shapechange trick. Sil could cast Improved Alacrity after casting Shapechange, then switch to Mind Flayer form repeatedly so she could chain multiple Psionic Blasts, one after another. They don't have the -1 save penalty that Jan's flashers do, and we'd still have to lower her MR to hit her with Greater Malison, but Sil could fire off over 30 Psionic Blasts before IA ends, for over a 99% chance of stunning Melissan for 10 rounds, a guaranteed death--even more so than the flashers.
@Wowo: Which of the exploits were closed? Some of them I like.
@semiticgod I'm not sure of the exact list but quite a few of them.
Off the top of my head: - UAI not bypassing NPCs unique items - bag of holding not making items permanent
How we feel about exploits is less important than the fact that they are exploits and we should be able to beat the game without them if an updated version of the game removes them.
@Wowo: For what it's worth, I already did beat the game without any of these exploits--in a separate run, a long time ago. I'm not sure why you brought it up. Does it matter?
@semiticgod I'm not sure of the exact list but quite a few of them.
Off the top of my head: - UAI not bypassing NPCs unique items - bag of holding not making items permanent
How we feel about exploits is less important than the fact that they are exploits and we should be able to beat the game without them if an updated version of the game removes them.
Incidentally... if somebody isn't isn't able to beat the game without exploits... is there anything you feel that we should say about that? Is it a good thing? A bad thing? Or does it not matter to us, how somebody else plays BG2?
I ask because, speaking as somebody who can beat the game without exploits, it doesn't matter to me.
@semiticgod my tone was intended to be playful and I would never detract from your accomplishment.
Personally, I, like you, think exploits have their place. However, exploits get fixed in later versions of the game and then new exploits are found and they, in turn, are fixed and so the cycle continues in the ever seeking quest for perfection. In this way finding an exploit improves the game experience for future players who benefit from a more refined game experience. The same can be said for some game choices which might not be exploits but are still game breaking due to how powerful they are. This is obviously a perspective created from playing online games with more frequent patch cycles but it is somewhat applicable to these games as well I think.
Sorry. I'm a tad prickly when it comes to debates over exploits, even when it's exploits I don't like using. My apologies for being prickly.
I'm not familiar with online games, where exploits affect other players and revisions occur frequently. I like to dissect systems like BG2, and having the model change constantly would make things really difficult to pin down. I can't help but wonder how people powergame in an online game where the most powerful things get nerfed once people realize how overpowered they are.
If BG2 were like that, PFMW probably wouldn't even exist!
Sorry. I'm a tad prickly when it comes to debates over exploits, even when it's exploits I don't like using. My apologies for being prickly.
I'm not familiar with online games, where exploits affect other players and revisions occur frequently. I like to dissect systems like BG2, and having the model change constantly would make things really difficult to pin down. I can't help but wonder how people powergame in an online game where the most powerful things get nerfed once people realize how overpowered they are.
If BG2 were like that, PFMW probably wouldn't even exist!
I played DDO for 5 odd years and there was a fantastic struggle to stay ahead of the curve as different OP strategies became too popular and were subsequently nerfed and then you'd look for new options for the devs to later nerf.
That said, DDO isn't anywhere near as bad as most other games in that sphere as there was very little focus on PvP.
Occasionally actual exploits would surface. I have fond memories of the cold down bug which let you bypass the cool down of any ability. Nothing like unlimited many shot giving your archer 4x the arrows permanently instead of just for 20 seconds every 2 minutes (or whatever it was).
Impressive run, Semiticgod! Once I've stumbled on it by chance some time ago it triggered the several-days-length Time Stop for me. And it was one of the most entertaining and insightful reads I ever had with Baldur's Gate walkthroughs! Congratulations and I'm looking forward for more of that kind of stuff.
I don't know why Melissan only appeared after all of the Five were dead. It may have had something to do with the Time Stop, or the DEX drain kill, or it might have just been a fluke.
Neither stat drain kills nor time stops have that effect in my experience. A kill during time stop will typically force an early end to the time stop.
Of course, Mel didn't arrive at all during the first run, which suggests that something was awry. And in the second run, the five had been Ctrl-Yed, presumably near simultaneously.
What happened in your test runs? Did she appear after the second death in those?
Speaking of stunning Melissan, I realized earlier that we could have stunned Melissan longer and more reliably using the Improved Alacrity+Shapechange trick.
Yes. I've never been fond of the infinite blast, personally. I could see myself using flashers though. Again, nice work!
Comments
A Protection from Magic scroll will prevent some of Sendai's spellcasting, but it won't stop her from casting Freedom on an Imprisoned Balthazar, nor will it stop her Heal Contingency, or her sequencers, and it seems like she can either retain or refresh a Stoneskin spell despite the Protection from Magic scroll. She can also still teleport, which further complicates things. The scroll might still neutralize her as an offensive threat, and setting traps to the north could slay her when she tries to run and her Stoneskins are down.
The weird thing is that Sendai has no Freedom spell either in her spellbook or her script. But somehow she could still cast the spell to free Balthazar. I have no explanation for this.
Abazigal is another candidate for the Protection from Magic scroll. He's an aggressive debuffer, but maybe we just need to spend more resources on our defenses. In the last two test runs, I've been hesitant to use buff spells during the fight with the Five out of an instinct to conserve our resources, but really, I only need so many resources for Melissan herself, since we'll be using flashers on her. The scroll would reduce him to a fighter-type role, and unlike Sendai, he cannot teleport, rendering him relatively ineffective. Still, he should be easier to debuff than Sendai. We can, of course, use the Wand of Lightning trick to hit EVERYONE with the Protection from Magic scroll, but that wouldn't be very interesting, much like the trap option. Perhaps we could have Nalia use Improved Alacrity to debuff Abazigal, though I've long been leery of using Improved Alacrity in SCS2, as it can't be used by clones in my install, and I want to preserve those spells for clone summoning.
I was wrong on Illasera. She cripples the party. Her arrows dispel magic as a level 30 spell. They also tack on 40% spell failure for 3 rounds. Both effects are unacceptable. Only PFMW will block this, because somehow we don't have the Shield of Reflection. We therefore must take down Illasera within the first four rounds of combat. This will require Jan's attention, unless we make Illasera the focus of our trap setting.
Nobody in this fight has Remove Magic, nor is it mentioned in anybody's scripts. All Sendai has is Dispel Magic, which she casts at level 20. This means we could free up our 5th-level spell slots for Spell Shield rather than SI: Abjuration, or use SI: Evocation to ward off Solar Stance. Sendai does have True Seeing, which would warrant SI: Divination, but I believe a Protection from Magic scroll would prevent this.
Perhaps a better plan would be to kill Illasera with pre-set Spike Traps, have Haer'dalis kill Yaga-Shura during Time Trap with DEX drain, use the Protection from Magic scroll on Sendai, and then spawn in some clones to debuff Abazigal. Once Abazigal is dead, we must kill Sendai to make sure Melissan's saves are high enough for us to stun her. Balthazar and Gromnir can be killed or ignored, but not Imprisoned, as Melissan will cast Freedom on them.
I've done two test runs already to check a few things, and I've wondered how many test runs are really acceptable before you break the challenge of the no-reload run, since they let you try out new things with no cost or risk. Plus, I don't like the idea of doing lots of test runs and then still dying due to another unforeseen factor.
Instead, I'm just going to try it out once more, to see if I can do it without reloading. If it doesn't work out, then I'll just try again until it works. It might not be a no-reload run anymore, but it would save me a big headache from all the anticipation. It's best just to jump in, and if the no-reload run fails, we can always finish the adventure as a normal game. I still have a successful run of SoA, so I can at least feel good about that.
On further thought, I've decided my current battle plan was flawed. Abazigal and Balthazar are too hard to kill. Their AC is fantastic, they have great regeneration (Balthazar regenerates 48 HP per round), and they have a tremendous HP pool. It's not realistic to expect to take both of them down, not in the time frame we need. But how can we let them stick around without spending lots of PFMW spells to keep them off our backs?
Instead of using PFMW, we can stack Teleport Field spells to keep them at bay. Neither of them has ranged weapons, and two Teleport Fields on top of one another will frustrate their efforts dramatically, limiting them to maybe 2 APR in the best of circumstances, and that's if i don't move around to cause more trouble for them. Teleport Field is almost as good as PFMW when archers are not an issue, and has the advantage of being party-wide and lasting 10 rounds instead of 4. Plus, we can memorize many more, and it won't be taken down by Breach.
With this barrier of safety, we can stun-lock Melissan as planned. Once she's stunned, we can Imprison Balthazar, and neither Melissan nor Sendai will be there to free him. Abazigal will run out of his debuffers (he has two Secret Word spells and two Breach spells), Balthazar won't even be there to debuff us, and Melissan's Breach spells will be out of commission. Gromnir, meanwhile, can just be killed on the side; his defenses aren't too strong.
As for the others, Illasera will die with 5 normal traps and three Comet or Dragon's Breath spells, Yaga-Shura will die from DEX drain during our initial Time Trap, and Sendai will be hit with our Protection from Magic scroll, as planned. Melissan will be tougher to kill without Abazigal and Balthazar dead, since she'll need +5 weapons to hit, gets an extra 15% to her physical damage resistance, and has 200 more HP, but the stun-lock should be sufficient regardless.
So the giant dies from DEX drain when time is stopped, the archer dies from traps and HLAs, the cleric/mage has her magic shut down and is killed later, the fighter/mage is tanked and perhaps killed with DEX drain at our convenience, the monk is ignored and then Imprisoned, the barbarian is killed whenever we feel like it, and Melissan herself is stun-locked by flashers and then mobbed. We shroud ourselves in Teleport Fields to ward off melee attacks, maintain and renew spell protections to protect our normal buffs, and deal with ranged attacks by bumping off the only enemy archer.
We also have some secret weapons, if we're not shy about using them. But launching 36 level 9 mage spells in a single round is merely a backup plan.
Best,
A.
Btw. Semiticgod- Casts Imprisonment: Balthazar
Balthazar- Lunar Stance!
Well, we've got nothing to fight Balthazar with, aside from hoping for miraculous rolls round after round. We can't get automatic hits because he's immune to Time Stop, we can't kill him with DEX drain because he's immune to +2 weapons, and we can't hope to overcome his regeneration and kill him in any realistic period of time, unless we stack a bunch of bard songs for damage boosts. He shouldn't even be fighting us in the first place, since he agreed to support us.
I'll just work around him instead. If he uses Flip Resistances, perhaps I could Maze him. Or lure him to the side with Sil, and turn into the Ravager after casting PFMW. Or, if I decide to use exploits, I could have Jan spawn in six clones and lay six Spike Traps. But more likely, I'll just have him harassing us for the entire battle.
In my experience, the easiest way to catch him in a Time Stop is to use opening Time Traps. Have we considered using our opening Time Traps to kill Balthazar instead of Yaga? Would that work, or has David pre-buffed Balthazar with Lunar Stance in your edition? Balthazar can't be dex drained like Yaga can, but BBoD+Belm (or Kundane)+Improved Haste+Assasination (or Mislead) will fix him just as quickly, assuming you can Time Trap him.
Best,
A.
We've got no Belm, since it was lost in a fight with vampires a while back, but we do have the Scarlet Ninja-to, and Jan has Black Blade of Disaster in his book for precisely this occasion. He also has Time Stop, which we can chain with Time Trap.
The battle begins today. Let's see how it goes.
First, I have Aerie cast Shapechange, and have Haer'dalis do so as well, with a scroll. I kill both, rest, and raise them with the Rod of Resurrection. This is how you perform the Shapechange trick, which grants permanent access to all of Shapechange's forms. I don't really need to do this, but it's much more convenient. Haer'dalis is our best candidate for using the flashers, as his spells, which Shapechange will block, are less useful than Jan's. Haer'dalis will be using Mind Flayer form to fire the flashers. He'll get the same 4 APR as he would with spider form, but he will have 90% MR and 50% resistance to physical damage, overriding his innate resistances but stacking with the Jansen Adventureware, making him a very sturdy target. The downside is that this decreases his STR to 10, and prevents him from carrying multiple stacks of flashers. Aerie's Shapechange abilities aren't needed at all--but if I'm going to give them to Haer'dalis, I may as well do it for her. It frees up a spell slot for Wish, which isn't reliable enough for a no-reload run anyway.
Next, I reconfigure our contingencies and sequencers, and finally scribe our one remaining Spell Trigger scroll into Aerie's spellbook, and our Chain Contingency scroll into Jan's. I'd been saving these scrolls to make sure I knew exactly who wanted them.
Haer'dalis and Jan have the standard Shocking Grasp+Mirror Image Minor Sequencers that I've been using for the spider gnome strategy since the beginning of the run. The other Minor Sequencers are all defensive. Aerie's has two Armor of Faith spells, which will make her nearly invincible in Mind Flayer or Iron Golem form. The others have Mirror Image and Blur, and in Sil's case, Chant.
The Spell Sequencers are all filled with Teleport Field and Stoneskin, plus Greater Malison for some of the characters. This will ensure us fast casting for the Teleport Field spells that might be interrupted by, say, Solar Stance. Greater Malison is there for stun-locking Melissan, as it saves us some 4th-level spell slots. And Stoneskin is just there to save rounds on renewing it.
We only have two Spell Triggers. Aerie's contains Righteous Magic, Tenser's Transformation, and SI: Abjuration. Although Aerie is not a critical part of our strategy, this will make her very dangerous when in Iron Golem form, with -7 THAC0 and fighter-grade damage output for 20 rounds. With her Minor Sequencer pre-cast and the Defender of Easthaven in her off hand, she will also have 90% physical damage resistance and immunity to magic, with SI: Abjuration to block Breach. Sil's meanwhile, is a rescue option: Heal, PFMW, and Improved Haste.
Everyone's Contingency is set to PFMW, on hit. Imoen, Nalia, and Jan's Chain Contingencies have SI: Divination with two Project Image spells, for safe clone spawning, while Sil's brings out Stoneskin, PFMW, and Spell Turning, another rescue option.
Our spellbooks:
We stock up on Stoneskin, PFMW, Spell Immunity, Spellstrike, Pierce Shield, Maze, Project Image, and Simulacrum. Otherwise we have the same buffs as normal: Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, Stoneskin, four Blur spells apiece, Spell Shield, and Protection from Evil, Petrification, Electricity, Fire, and Magical Energy.
We don't need Breach with five fully-charged Wands of Spell Striking, hence the lack of Breach spells. Lower Resistance shares levels with Spell Immunity, so we'll lower Melissan's MR with Pierce Shield and the Wand of Spell Striking instead. The Wand of Spell Striking's Pierce Magic ability doesn't actually take down spell protections for some reason, though it does strike as a level 6 spell and can burn through them, hence the need for Spellstrike. In my install, mage HLAs are once-per-day innate abilities rather than mage spells, and Time Stop has few uses in this fight, so 9th-level spell slots are wide open for Spellstrike. Maze is just there to give us breathing room.
The simulacra are not there to save us spells, or to use scrolls. They are there to serve as cannon fodder and to deal damage. Project Image, of course, is to save on high-level spells, namely debuffers when we deal with Abazigal.
And Sil has Wish spells. They're not part of our strategy, but if things go to hell, some lucky Wish options could change the course of the battle.
With our spellbooks in order, we head through the doorway.
Imoen is forcibly transformed into a hostile Slayer. Irenicus, Bodhi, and a Fallen Solar make up the first phase of combat. Bodhi is a non-issue, as we have pre-buffed with Protection from Undead, but the Fallen Solar, I understand, can use Arrows of Dispelling, and Irenicus is Irenicus.
We begin with a disabler.
It only buys us a moment of time, however, though it does do a lot to weaken the Fallen Solar. Notice the fired Chain Contingency from Sil. That was supposed to be an escape option; why is it triggering now? Well, inspired by @Alesia_BH's example, I set up all of our Contingencies, and Sil's Chain Contingency, to trigger on hit, which I didn't even realize was an option for a contingency condition (you have to scroll up to see it, on the contingency screen). I thought it would trigger when the caster was hit by a weapon, indicating their Stoneskins and PFMW spells weren't keeping them safe. But apparently any hostile act that makes contact can trigger such a contingency.
So all of our contingencies stand to be triggered early, when we don't need them.
Despite our attempts to disable Irenicus, he manages to get a Time Stop spell off the ground. He does have a bonus to casting speed.
He casts True Seeing, robbing us of our Blur spells. He also debuffs Jan and then disables him with Power Word: Stun. Things are looking bad for the long-time star of the Party of Spiders.
Worse yet, it triggers his Chain Contingency, as he's been rendered helpless.
But he doesn't spawn any clone. It destroyed Jan's contingency completely; we got absolutely nothing from it. Notice Aerie's Storm of Vengeance, conjured in the hopes of fiddling with Jon-bon's spellcasting. Also notice our Planetar's telltale cloud just now coalescing. Our failure to harm the Fallen Solar after Dragon's Breath indicated we needed some help, and we get a rest after the next fight anyway, so using up one of our many Summon Planetar spells won't be a big loss. Also notice Haer'dalis has been debuffed.
The Fallen Solar turns invisible and casts Heal when we start to make progress on it, and Jan is too busy to remove its invisibility in time. We're trying to bring down the Fallen Solar, and it's preventing us from debuffing and killing Irenicus. Worse, Haer'dalis gets charmed, and if that wasn't enough, it turns out a Planetar can't harm a Fallen Solar, as its +3 weapon doesn't have a high enough enchantment to hit the Fallen Solar. We need +4 weapons to hurt it.
With our Planetar more or less useless, we try to have it remove Haer'dalis charm.
No such luck. We continue to struggle against Irenicus and the Fallen Solar. Eventually the Planetar has a positive impact, killing Bodhi shortly after Imoen recovered and used another Protection from Undead to keep Bodhi off her back.
I was worried about how we were going to kill her. She regenerates 10 HP per second. That's 60 HP per round, even more than a Greater Wolfwere. But vorpal strikes make regeneration a moot point.
Eventually we find the time to hit Irenicus with Spellstrike. He doesn't last long after that. From there, we gather some buffs and put enough pressure on the Fallen Solar to bring it down.
With the first battle over, we have some space to prepare fro the next. Activating each green pool on the map will spawn in a whole bunch of demons. When the demons are dead, you can activate the green pool again, which rests the whole party and gives Charname a special power. This includes Unleash, a damage spell, Control Demon, which I assume lets you charm a demon (normally uncharmable critters), though the spell files doesn't look like it, and Focus, which grants Charname immunity to disintegration, petrification, and Time Stop, for 30 seconds. It can be cast every 60 seconds. And since Melissan will use Whirlwind Attack during Time Stop, and can teleport as well, Focus can prevent an otherwise inevitable death.
Mostly I'm concerned with that free rest. It allows us to re-memorize our contingency spells and switch them back to my standard condition, at 50% HP. Also, it lets us splurge on preparations for the next battle. We conjure a bunch of summons, add a few buffs, and a lay a few traps via Jan's simulacrum. This puts us in a much better position for fighting the first group of demons.
Behind that Planetar is a simulacrum of Aerie's, pre-buffed with a couple of Armor of Faith spells. She can turn into an Iron Golem and block the bridge to the mainland, keeping most of the demons at bay simply by virtue of her big circle, though her HP and physical resistances won't be enough to hold them off for long. She changes shape once Sil has activated the pool and retreated to the main platform.
The battle progresses well--they're mostly just melee enemies, who usually aren't a big issue for us--but we see a chilling message from Jan's clone offscreen.
Vorpal hits from a fighter-type enemy. This could be messy. We keep the party away from the pool, and focus on killing an invisible Succubus that sprung up on us. I'm not a big fan of Succubi. We leave Aerie's and Sil's clone and our Planetar to deal with the Balor. They do a pretty good job without our help.
When we have trouble damaging the Succubus or the Cambions, we bring out an HLA to knock them down. The Planetar gets a vorpal hit on the Succubus.
The battle is over soon after. The clones are a dramatic boost to our power. Simulacrum has always been more useful to thieves and fighters than it is to mages or priests, since the level drop does so much more to weaken spellcasters. Plus, simulacra get all of the normal thief and fighter HLAs, while spellcaster HLAs are confined to spell slots.
We lay some more traps, add some buffs, cast our new contingencies, summon some clones and critters, and lay our traps once more for the next battle before activating the pool again and restoring our spells. I want to extract all the benefit I can from those rest periods. This time, we can see the effects of the traps more clearly.
One charge from the Wand of Spell Striking and a few Energy Blades, and that Marilith is gone. The others don't last much longer.
I finish re-casting Nalia's Chain Contingency, which I forgot to make room for earlier on, and prepare for the third and final group of demons. Jan doesn't have all of his Spike Traps back yet, so his clone can only lay one. Jan backstabs his clone to make room for a new simulacrum.
It doesn't work. Simulacrum won't let you conjure a new simulacrum until after the spell duration is over, not when the clone dies.
Either way, we can't continue. Real life intruded. I'll have to begin again tomorrow.
One battle remains before the Five.
A few comments. A fallen solar, singular? Are you playing on normal? Yuppers. Contingency: Hit doesn't work the way most of us would expect it to or want it to. It's still useful though. I and others on the Bioware forum have taken to using it when we want contingencies that we can readily trigger ourselves. For example, I sometimes use Chain Contingency: Hit- Sunfire x3, Contingency: Hit- Sunfire, Spell Trigger- Sunfire x3 to create a septuple Sunfire. In his Arcane Army run, Grond0 used Chain Contingency- Hit to precision time release of Chain Contingency- Wilting x 3s. It's great for those applications. Yuppers. Control Demon lets you dominate demons. It can be very powerful if used correctly, as Saros has shown, but it can also get you killed. There is a one round mental battle between the caster and the demon, during which time the caster is frozen and vulnerable. I'm glad Sil didn't try it without knowing what to expect! Good hunting!
Best,
A.
Btw. Great run!
Best,
A.
The last group of demons was no trouble at all, though I inadvertently conjured some Skeletons instead of Skeleton Warriors, which slightly weakened our front line. No matter; the demons went down quickly under melee and ranged pressure.
We still had two rest periods left, but they were largely redundant, as I had decided not to lay more than seven traps or summon more than five critters. It did, however, let me cast a ridiculous number of buffs without losing any spell slots:
Protection from Petrification, Shield, Blur x4 (except for Aerie, who didn't have time), Protection from Fire, Protection from Cold, Stoneskin, Spell Shield, SI: Divination, SI: Abjuration, Protection from Magical Energy, Spell Turning, Remove Fear, Death Ward, Protection from Lightning, Chaotic Commands. Jan and Haer'dalis both have drunk two Potions of Invulnerability and one Potion of Storm Giant Strength. I forgot to have Sil drink a Potion of Magic Protection for immunity to magic. Aerie has Shield of the Archons, on top of Spell Turning, and Aerie, Nalia, and Imoen all have Energy Blades on hand. Finally, Haer'dalis has Improved Haste active, and one Mislead clone to sing for us.
I've really gone all out on our buffs, having realized that the true danger in this battle is not Melissan, but the Five. It's better to fight the Five while fully buffed, and face Melissan when our buffs are running out, than the other way around.
Jan also had Improved Haste active, plus a Black Blade of Disaster, cast via a scroll rather than a spell slot to make room for a second Time Stop spell. Everyone but Haer'dalis had a simulacrum active.
Each simulacrum had SI: Divination and SI: Abjuration to protect its Stoneskin and Blur spells. Jan has five normal traps near Illasera's spawn point. He also has a Time Trap, only one, nearby. Haer'dalis also has a Time Trap, far to the north. The summons are only there because we got a rest period--they have no particular purpose, though I suspected the Planetar's True Seeing spell could be useful.
Sil activates the second pool, resting the whole party, and we each add one more spell in the limited time we have left--mostly, just a fifth Blur spell. Melissan spawns in her minions: Sendai, with her many mage buffs and cleric healing spells; Yaga-Shura, with his stupendous regeneration and 99% resistance to all forms of damage besides cold; Abazigal, with his massive damage output, subterranean AC, and arcane defensive spells; Balthazar, with his Greater Werewolf-style regeneration, nigh-unhittable AC, and unique innate abilities; and Illasera, with +5 Arrows of Dispelling and fighter HLAs. Jan's traps go off, stopping time.
Sil's clone has pre-cast Focus, but I forgot about her and didn't bother to see if she could take action while time was stopped. Jan is alone.
Jan's Time Trap only lasts 10 seconds. That's not enough time to do what we need to do. But we have a solution for that.
We now have 18 seconds, a full 3 rounds. Jan casts Mislead and slips behind Balthazar, who thankfully does not pre-cast Lunar Stance. With the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization and Kundane in his off hand, and Improved Haste as a pre-buff, he has 7 backstabs per round, 5 of which can hit Balthazar. Balthazar doesn't stand a chance. He goes down in four hits.
Jan scurries over to deal with Yaga-Shura, only to realize that he can't use the Chaos Blade--he's still got the Black Blade of Disaster glued to his hand.
But we have a solution for that, too. Jan activates his Minor Sequencer, casting Mirror Image and Shocking Grasp, dispelling his Black Blade of Disaster and allowing him to equip the Chaos Blade. Yaga-Shura goes down.
With the little time he has left, Jan hits Sendai, still fully visible, with a Protection from Magic scroll. Two of the Five are dead, and a third is neutralized.
Next up are Abazigal and, more importantly, Illasera. I think I can take down Illasera before she hits anybody, so I don't bother casting PFMW on any of my characters. Instead, we rush at her, with Nalia casting Dragon's Breath and Imoen casting Comet, so both HLAs hit simultaneously. Meanwhile, I have three of our clones target Abazigal with the Wand of Spell Striking. Two Pierce Magic charges will burn through his Spell Turning, making room for a Breach.
Dragon's Breath and Comet hit Illasera at the same time. Between Imoen and Nalia's HLAs, Jan's traps, and the combined pressure of all our party members, plus all of our simulacra, Illasera cannot stand.
Jan, meanwhile, has been hassling Sendai. She flees the area, to the north, and triggers Haer'dalis' Time Trap, which I had set in case Jan wasn't able to take down Yaga-Shura.
Jan has already given both the Answerer and the Chaos Blade to Haer'dalis. Haer'dalis picks the Answerer and attacks Abazigal, whose PFMW has already been removed. With the automatic hits granted by Time Trap, Haer'dalis adds roughly a +10 penalty to Abazigal's AC, and breaks through his Stoneskins, to boot.
Without his incredible AC, Abazigal is defenseless. We can hit him even on bad rolls, and this is with a party of mages.
The Answerer, again, is woefully unappreciated. With a caster-heavy party, the AC penalties are a dramatic boost to our damage output. Abazigal collapses.
Only one of the Five remains, and she's all but helpless.
Her contingencies still work, but they're not enough.
Soon, Sendai is at Near Death. We take a round off to refresh our SI: Divination spells.
Then we descend upon Sendai, and the last of the Five falls.
Melissan prepares to join the fight. The computer freezes here.
I don't want to repeat that whole process all over again, particularly since reloading causes clones to lose their quickslot items--we'd need an extra round to debuff Abazigal thanks to the crash and the resulting reload.
I reload and activate the final pool once more.
To make sure our clones last as long as they should, I have hit them with CTRL-Y, only to find that I couldn't summon new ones. I decide to go on ahead anyway. Our buffs will last longer, but we will have to fight Melissan without clones, which I think balances out. Neither our buffs nor our clones are very important, anyway--our strategy for Melissan doesn't need them.
This time, Melissan spawns in correctly when the Five are dead. The final phase has begun.
We maintain a safe distance, with some new summons to hold the fort. Haer'dalis switches to Mind Flayer form, while the others hit Melissan with Spellstrike, Pierce Shield, and a couple of Pierce Magic charges from the Wand of Spell Striking. Sil remains inactive for fear that she might need to cast Focus or PFMW, and be caught off-guard.
Our Skeleton Warrior is in poor shape, having taken the first of Melissan's attacks, so we draw it aside so Aerie can heal it with the Rod of Resurrection. Haer'dalis activates his Minor Sequencer, dispelling the Mind Flayer attack weapon with Shocking Grasp, and removing the Shocking Grasp by attacking his Mislead clone. He equips Firetooth and a single stack of flashers. Imoen casts Greater Malison.
Now Melissan's saves are penalized, her MR is at zero, she's busy dealing with our summons, and we have a convenient target for Haer'dalis' flashers: the Skeleton Warrior.
Haer'dalis has 8 attacks per round, and near-guaranteed hits on the Skeleton Warrior. Melissan has to make over 8 saves vs. spell per round. She fails.
Now she's out for 2 rounds. We get ready for the attack.
Sil casts Boon of Lathander and starts attacking with the Sling of Everard and Bullets +4, generated by the Erinne Sling. Aerie runs over to Melissan's side and switches to Iron Golem form. Nalia casts Improved Haste on Aerie, forgetting that Aerie's Spell Turning would block it, while Jan casts Improved Haste on himself, and runs over with the Answerer and Kundane. If Melissan recovers her senses, she will have very poor AC when it happens.
Melissan fails another save.
Sil casts Improved Haste, and Aerie activates her Spell Trigger, casting Righteous Magic, Tenser's Transformation, and SI: Abjuration. The others continue attacking as before.
Melissan makes her saves for the next two rounds, only to find herself vulnerable. She's already at Badly Injured, and we have near-automatic hits.
She fails one more save, and when she recovers, she's at Near Death. After another round of pressure, the Solar finally interrupts.
Melissan has fallen. The battle is won.
I haven't even thought about whether Sil should become a god or stay mortal. I decide to keep things simple.
Sil and company have triumphed over both Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal, with SCS2 and Ascension, without reloading. Thanks to @Alesia_BH, @Blackraven, Jan, and everyone else who has helped make this run a success.
I especially appreciated your use of The Answerer and Jan's Flashers. Noted.
I was surprised that Mel didn't arrive until after the last of the 5 was dead. In my experience, on core and above, she arrives after one of the 5 has fallen. On normal, she arrives after two. I wonder what accounts for the difference between our installs?
Anyhoo well done! And congrats!
Cheers,
A.
I don't know why Melissan only appeared after all of the Five were dead. It may have had something to do with the Time Stop, or the DEX drain kill, or it might have just been a fluke. The battle could have gotten more complicated had Melissan arrived earlier, though it wouldn't have been that much harder.
We did have tons of resources left over, with most of our strongest spells still intact, including all of our Summon (Fallen) Planetar spells. Each party member had Spell Shield and Spell Turning, with the exception of Haer'dalis, who only had the former, and Aerie, who also had Shield of the Archons. A good defensive barrier, in the scheme of things. 12 rounds of PFMW across the board, 2 spare Spell Immunity spells apiece, some PFMW and Absolute Immunity scrolls, three Rods of Resurrection... we saved up a lot for this fight.
Oh, and the secret weapon I mentioned... Sil could use the Wand of Lightning trick to summon 6 Project Image clones at once, and the clones could use their own Wands of Lightning to cast Wish 6 times, as well, for 36 Wish spells in one round, which we could do twice for each of Sil's three Project Image spells. That would be a guaranteed reset if things went wrong, but it would entail using a game-breaking exploit. I'd rather win it without the Wand of Lightning, as much as I love that trick.
The best thing to do, if Melissan returned right after Jan's Time Stop, would be to take down Illasera early on, as before, ignoring Abazigal. We'd keep Melissan off our backs with PFMW, then start chasing down Sendai. Once Sendai was gone, we could concentrate on stunning Melissan, using Teleport Field to keep Abazigal at bay (Melissan is immune to Teleport Field) rather than spending valuable time killing him.
Speaking of stunning Melissan, I realized earlier that we could have stunned Melissan longer and more reliably using the Improved Alacrity+Shapechange trick. Sil could cast Improved Alacrity after casting Shapechange, then switch to Mind Flayer form repeatedly so she could chain multiple Psionic Blasts, one after another. They don't have the -1 save penalty that Jan's flashers do, and we'd still have to lower her MR to hit her with Greater Malison, but Sil could fire off over 30 Psionic Blasts before IA ends, for over a 99% chance of stunning Melissan for 10 rounds, a guaranteed death--even more so than the flashers.
@Wowo: Which of the exploits were closed? Some of them I like.
Off the top of my head:
- UAI not bypassing NPCs unique items
- bag of holding not making items permanent
How we feel about exploits is less important than the fact that they are exploits and we should be able to beat the game without them if an updated version of the game removes them.
I ask because, speaking as somebody who can beat the game without exploits, it doesn't matter to me.
Personally, I, like you, think exploits have their place. However, exploits get fixed in later versions of the game and then new exploits are found and they, in turn, are fixed and so the cycle continues in the ever seeking quest for perfection. In this way finding an exploit improves the game experience for future players who benefit from a more refined game experience. The same can be said for some game choices which might not be exploits but are still game breaking due to how powerful they are. This is obviously a perspective created from playing online games with more frequent patch cycles but it is somewhat applicable to these games as well I think.
I'm not familiar with online games, where exploits affect other players and revisions occur frequently. I like to dissect systems like BG2, and having the model change constantly would make things really difficult to pin down. I can't help but wonder how people powergame in an online game where the most powerful things get nerfed once people realize how overpowered they are.
If BG2 were like that, PFMW probably wouldn't even exist!
That said, DDO isn't anywhere near as bad as most other games in that sphere as there was very little focus on PvP.
Occasionally actual exploits would surface. I have fond memories of the cold down bug which let you bypass the cool down of any ability. Nothing like unlimited many shot giving your archer 4x the arrows permanently instead of just for 20 seconds every 2 minutes (or whatever it was).
Of course, Mel didn't arrive at all during the first run, which suggests that something was awry. And in the second run, the five had been Ctrl-Yed, presumably near simultaneously.
What happened in your test runs? Did she appear after the second death in those? Agreed. Yes. I've never been fond of the infinite blast, personally. I could see myself using flashers though. Again, nice work!
Best,
A.