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The Party of Spiders: No-reload SCS2 run

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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I just did a couple of tests and found that killing Matron Mother Ardulace unlocks the city exit, but the inside of the Temple of Lolth, like the streets of Ust Natha, also spawn drow enemies every few rounds. Plus, Nalia is somehow missing her Spell Sequencer, which had a critical Teleport Field in it. I'm going to try and assassinate Ardulace and then hurry outside while invisible. If anybody in the party gets stuck on the way out due to drow spawn points clogging up the streets, I'll pass on their equipment to Cernd or Sil and let the drow kill them.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Nice run man! You're making me want to play with a party again... I think on my next BGT install I'll go with a party instead of solo...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @CrevsDaak: Good idea. But a word to the wise: don't play no-reload.

    Kidding, but... yeah.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155

    CrevsDaak: Good idea. But a word to the wise: don't play no-reload.

    Kidding, but... yeah.

    I play no-reload since some time ago so I don't think that would be much trouble... But I think I'll need to rebalance my whole current install if I wanted to play with a party (I'd get wipe'd in seconds).
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @CrevsDaak: What's wrong with the current install? Why wouldn't it work with a party?

    Does anybody know why the Egg Guards sometimes turn the city hostile? Either way, I'm going to continue the run, but if the Egg Guard problem is just a fluke or a random event, I'm going to consider this still a no-reload run, given all the trouble they called. I just want to know if there was any way of avoiding that, besides just not completing the quest.
  • MeyahiMeyahi Member Posts: 143
    edited January 2015
    It's too late now but the easy way to avoid all this is to ignore the egg guards and leave the building. Usually only one will be able to follow if you're hasted but it doesn't matter. Kill them outside and you should be able to resume the quest.

    It is way too hard (impossible?) to do it inside in SCS because of the "better calls for help" modification. That's what misled you.
  • MeyahiMeyahi Member Posts: 143
    CrevsDaak said:

    CrevsDaak: What's wrong with the current install? Why wouldn't it work with a party?

    It gives too little XP rewards and enemies have around 4 levels more each. Besides I want to make a new install since some time ago, because I forgot some mods (SpellPack, Item/Spell Revisions) and discovered others (Polytweak).
    I you're using EE (I understand if you don't since many mods aren't updated yet or will never be), just click the repair install button in the first window and it will be as good as new.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Meyahi said:

    CrevsDaak said:

    CrevsDaak: What's wrong with the current install? Why wouldn't it work with a party?

    It gives too little XP rewards and enemies have around 4 levels more each. Besides I want to make a new install since some time ago, because I forgot some mods (SpellPack, Item/Spell Revisions) and discovered others (Polytweak).
    I you're using EE (I understand if you don't since many mods aren't updated yet or will never be), just click the repair install button in the first window and it will be as good as new.
    Unluckily it's a whole BGT install and through Wine since I'm on OSX... Luckily, I have both games from GoG so it isn't such a pain after all (I yet have to mod BG2:EE to my likings, I've done so on BG:EE on my iPad already).
  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 122
    Been a long while since I've done it myself, but I believe you can have a cleric use Sanctuary to do the egg swap while the rest of your party remains out of sight and avoid any ensuing hostility.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited January 2015
    I invaded the Mind Flayer lair.

    First, I had to pawn off a lot of gear to Garlena. The Githyanki dropped more potions than I could carry, even with the Potion Bag. Turns out that battle was quite profitable.
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    Unenchanted plate mail doesn't seem like much at this point in the game, but the Githyanki dropped a lot of them.

    I buffed the party and headed into the Mind Flayer lair. Generally not a good idea, considering Mind Flayers have amazing powers and their average Intelligence is 18.

    Anyway, Aerie started out with Summon Deva and Sil started out with Simulacrum, just for a little extra melee power. We also brought out the Flesh Golem.
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    The golem got stunned before it even appeared. But Jan doesn't need a target for his flashers here--the Mind Flayers's 90% MR makes flashers almost completely useless.

    Nalia's clones used Emotion and Greater Malison, followed by Horrid Wilting, mostly just to get the Umber Hulks out of the way.
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    Luckily for us, Mind Flayers appear to have some pretty bad AC. Even with 50% physical damage resistance, they don't stand up well in melee.
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    Sil's clone got mazed shortly before this, but she reappeared during Nalia's clone's Time Stop. Usually Maze lasts a whole battle, at least in my experience. Jan got an unlucky hit from a Mind Flayer, but with 16 base INT (very min-maxy), he can take three more strikes before his head explodes. Also notice that Jan's Mislead spell doesn't really work: SCS2 illithids in my install can see through invisibility, as per the Tactics mod. Mislead still gives +4 bonus to melee THAC0.

    Jan has two methods of stunning Mind Flayers: Celestial Fury and Kuo-toa Bolts, both of which can stun through MR. But even in spider form, he has very little luck stunning anybody. I don't know if he stunned a single flayer throughout the battle.

    Without Chaotic Commands, Nalia's clones are very vulnerable to psionics, and one of them fails a save against Psionic Domination. Luckily, she does not use any spells against us.
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    Stil has just finished casting Improved Alacrity, and has started to use her newfound psionic abilities on the illithids. It's like irony, or something.

    Her simulacrum is mostly just there for its attacks, since it has no Improved Alacrity. I don't think it makes much difference. Anyway, we encounter the same problem we had against Ka'rashur: because Psionic Blast offers no stun message and travels so slowly, we can waste several castings of Psionic Blast on a target that failed its first save. To maximize our use of the spell, we want to distribute our Psionic Blasts as evenly as possible, and concentrate on the groups of flayers that aren't yet stunned.
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    This is especially relevant when the Mind Flayers split up into two groups, and we can't focus on just one target to make sure we're covering the whole enemy group. In between Sil's blasts, I try to keep the other party members busy, but generally I just need them to attack the disabled flayers. All this produces a very chaotic scene, making it even harder to tell which Mind Flayers are already stunned.

    An Ulitharid gets wise to Nalia's scheme and teleports over to chomp on her noggin. I can't send Sil over there without losing precious seconds she needs for Psionic Blast (Improved Alacrity only lasts so long), so I send the other party members out to help.
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    It's okay even if Nalia dies, though. Her role in this battle has largely already been played.

    After Improved Alacrity wears off and we kill the stunned Mind Flayers, I notice that our Teleport Field has moved some of the enemy out of our reach.
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    I rush in to fight them, not knowing how long before they get unstunned.
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    Then, after the room is clear, I notice a peculiar orb floating in the air.
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    Jan uses Detect Traps and finds an invisible Mind Flayer, standing in the corner and stunned. We kill it before it can recover its senses.

    We find another couple of enemies who had been teleported out of reach.
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    Our summons get in the way just long enough to let them regain consciousness and attack. But they're outnumbered by now, and though our buffs are wearing off, we established the upper hand several rounds before.

    When searching the room, Sil triggers a trap.
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    I don't know what it was, but her pathetic 10% magic resistance might have just saved her life.

    So it seems Mind Flayers are not immune to psionics. But they're awful good at making their saves. Even with all the Psionic Blasts we used, not all of them got stunned.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    On the way south to the next batch of illithids, I accidentally ran over a trap. Multiple times. Lots of people got hit by it.
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    Everybody made their saving throws, however. I'd hate to think what would have happened if we didn't. Jan disarms it so we can move on. Traps are hard for me in Watcher's Keep and TOB because I don't know where all of them are.

    For some reason, Aerie's Deva never appeared in the last battle, so I make sure to summon it before the next one begins. Turns out that wasn't the best idea.
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    I was so sure Devas were immune to stun. Now we will be fighting without it.

    Incidentally, I LOVE the Devas and Planetar's voices. Their avatars are awesome, too. They just look and sound epic.

    Detonate caused a fair amount of damage, so Aerie casts Mass Cure.
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    I really should have moved her out of the way. We have to drink potions instead. Notice our upgrade to Potions of Superior Healing. We gathered so many that we didn't have room for weaker potions.

    Things start to get complicated really fast. I don't know if I can cast big spells without getting interrupted. The Mind Flayers take advantage of the lull and teleport in--ignoring the Deva, because they know it's not going anywhere.
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    Plus, Nalia is within the Mind Flayers' view. They can easily rush up and suck out her brains. And I just cast Teleport Field, but it doesn't cover where we are now.

    Nalia's a smart girl. She probably has quite yummy brains.

    That would probably explain this.
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    Also notice that they dispelled Imoen's defenses.

    I bring back Nalia with the Rod of Resurrection. With this many enemies around me, I need to shunt the rod over to Jan, since Aerie, Sil, and Nalia's clones are all rather busy. Jan also switches cloaks with Sil, since the Cloak of Mirroring, normally on Jan, should keep Sil safe from Detonate.
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    Sil casts Improved Alacrity without getting interrupted, maybe thanks to the Cloak of Mirroring. All this time, Nalia's clones have been refraining from casting Time Stop, for fear that they'll get hit by Detonate. One of them has also been stunned, and another is flat out missing. Imoen, too, is stunned, and already is getting chomped.

    Nalia is still under the effects of Project Image, so she's actually very vulnerable here. And her clones didn't vanish when she died, so using the Rod of Resurrection before Project Image ran out accomplished absolutely nothing.

    At some point, I realize that I don't actually need to target any enemies to use Psionic Blast. Before, I had targeted the charmed Nalia clone, since trying to target a Mind Flayer got the spell canceled due to invisibility message. But since the Psionic Blast projectile, like Jan's flashers, affects only enemies no matter what the target is, I can target my own party and affect the Mind Flayers that way. Aerie is in a convenient location to reach some out of the way illithids.
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    It produces a rather dense stream of magic, heading south from Sil's head. There's a Mind Flayer down there who still doesn't have an orb over its head, indicating it's still not stunned.
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    Then I realize that I can use myself as a target to hit the illithids right next to me. I click 2 to target Sil.
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    Look at that chaos. This is what I have to search through to make the most of Sil's Psionic Blast. I spent minutes in this one round alone.

    Teleport Field also gave me some targeting problems. As the seconds passed in these screenshots, I saw the Mind Flayers get teleported individually. Normally you see everybody teleport together. This is how slow things were going.

    Earlier, I had one of Nalia's clones cast Teleport Field to protect Imoen. It wasn't enough in the end.
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    See the Draw Upon Holy Might animation on Sil? I got fed up with the pace and decided to use the remainder of Sil's Improved Alacrity, however much it was, to prepare her for melee combat. I activated my Minor Sequencer, cast PFMW, DUHM, and Boon of Lathander, and only then does the Improved Alacrity effect run out.

    We tear apart the Mind Flayers in the hallway. Sil is a monster even when she's not shapeshifted. But we didn't move fast enough to save Imoen.

    Nalia's Project Image runs out, too, and we regain control of the original. She goes back for her equipment but finds Imoen's instead. Since we don't have time to waste, she takes Imoen's stuff instead and equips what she needs.

    Nalia gets targeted by a Psionic Blast. It's too late for Sil to cast her last Chaotic Commands spell on Nalia, so I just have Nalia cast PFMW, so she at least has 4 rounds of safety. I could Maze her to keep her alive a bit longer after that.
    [/spoiler]image[/spoiler]
    Without Robe of Vecna, Nalia can't cast PFMW instantly. I could have handed her the Amulet of Power, but then Sil would have lost it if Nalia failed her save vs. spell.

    Also notice, in the above screenshot the Mind Flayers trapped in the nearby room, who are attacking us through the walls. And see that orb hovering over the leftmost Mind Flayer's head? It hasn't actually been stunned; it just has the animation over its head. So we have to roll to hit it.

    We have excellent melee strength, however, and the Mind Flayers fall, but not before they can kill Nalia.
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    Two deaths. That's the highest death count of this entire run. I bring them back with CTRL-R (too lazy to memorize Raise Dead) and we rest and recover outside.

    Well, it's not so much a rest as a vacation.
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    The rest of the illithid encampment is a breeze. The only two encounters are a trio of Umber Hulks and a pair of Vampiric Illithids, neither of whom can do any harm to us. Not as we are now.
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    There was a time when guys like these were bosses. At this point, they're just random goons.

    With the last of the three colored oils in our possession, we light some prettyful torches and open the way to Rock and Garock. Sil summons a Simulacrum to help her fight the Minotaurs.
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    To my surprise, Sil and her clone are not the only ones getting anything done in this battle.

    With the Crystal Mallet in hand, we stroll over to Carston's pod.
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    I don't actually know what happens if you hit it the wrong number of times.

    Carston is quite happy with escaping with his life.
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    I wonder what he'll do now. Everyone he knows is dead by now. He has decades if not centuries of experience watching things kill each other, without any apparent social contact. What kind of life is open to him now?

    I split up the special treats of the Machine of Lum the Mad. Aerie gets the DEX bonus for an extra point of AC. Sil gets the WIS bonus for an extra 1st- and 4th-level cleric spell (Aerie would get nothing), and memorizes Death Ward in case somebody gets hit by Breach. Sil also gets the magic resistance bonus and INT bonus, and also the CHA bonus, because why not. And Jan gets the STR bonus to improve his carrying capacity, since Haer'dalis and Sil will both be relying on items to boost their Strength.

    So the illithids are done and the next level of Watcher's Keep is open. Some of the quests are there are fairly simple. What won't be so easy will be the gang of liches, or Azamantes, or the fight with Xei Win Toh.

    I might stop short of that last one. Lots of unknowns about that battle.

    As for the rest of Watcher's Keep, I'll probably take down Saladrex, but leave the Demilich well alone. I might do a test run to see if Jan's flashers work on an SCS2 demilich, but otherwise I have no reason to risk getting hit by Imprison. That's basically eternal hell.

    I don't know why anyone would ever knowingly go up against a demilich. The penalty for losing is endless loneliness and insanity. The reward is winning is XP, and XP can be found lots of other places. You could do it for the bragging rights, but why bother? You could just lie about killing the demilich, and anyone who tried to double-check your story would never come back to expose you.

    As for Demogorgon himself... well, Sil is Lawful Good. She's going to keep Demogorgon where ze belongs: in Watcher's Keep, away from both the Prime Material Plane and the Abyss. Demogorgon has no special loot and you get more XP from locking him up than setting him free into the Abyss.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    The party of spiders has apparently broken the page! No wonder because their power is so, so broken...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @bengoshi: I don't know what the deal is with the page layout. I'd fix it if I could.
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