Blackguard - I can't even imagine BG without an evil paladin now. Not only her skills are interesting to use and powerful enough, the chance to create a paladin that is not lawful good is a welcome addition. I'm spoilt by Poison Weapon on a APR-machine, I like an immunity to fear and level-drain. One of the main choices for a party now for me, either in the form of Dorn or as Charname. 10/10
Shadowdancer - I still remember the very first version of this kit. She was a beast, without the need to wait for a cooldown, she could simply backstab every 6 seconds. I also remember a huge wave of posts about this kit, people either praising its awesomeness or complaining about its OP nature. For me, it was like a breath of a fresh air, it was a way to play the game anew, a unique experience. After the cooldown had been nerfed the kit lost a little bit of fun to me but I still regard it as an exciting thief and actually plan to test Shadowdancer's special HLAs in a future no-reload solo run. 8/10
Dark Moon Monk - the favourite monk for me. Detect Illusion, Blur and Mirror Image make her the best choice in this class. The fact she still has a deadly palm with a chance of insta-kill adds greatly. 10/10
Dwarven Defender - I like, no, I adore dwarves. "Once you go dwarf you always go dwarf". The kit is finely balanced and every time I tried it I didn't regret. Her immunity to physical damage that is reachable with several items is of course a bright side. 9/10
Dragon Disciple - a nice way to slightly shorten a huge power of a sorcerer. Although I still haven't fully tested her, I understand there's a solid RP concept behind such a character. A regenerating mage that has some dragon powers... Although many would say that additional spells, especially at the 8th and the 9th levels, are better than the breath attack. 7/10
@semiticgod : I would like to be more precise on one of your points: AC doesn't cap at -24. General AC caps at -20, before dex bonus (and a possible single-wielding bonus) is applied. Which is -24 with 18 dex indeed. That is also before weapon-specific protection like those provided by girdles or armors. Meaning that reaching and AC such as -28 against a specific type of weapon does make you hard to hit (Except by human Abazigal and Demogorgon). I digged a little further to find notable enemy thac0 and I found I was mistaken about the lowest Thac0 Still, it does not get lower than -13 (which would be 1 hit for 4 attacks on a -28AC) except for the following enemies: Human Abazigal: -28 (-13 in drake form) Demogorgon: -22 Yaga Shura: -16 The Ravager: -15
Amelyssan is actually -12 Human Abazigal usually lasts no more than 2 round, so does Yaga Shura. The Ravager and Demogorgon are the two single problems. Ok, let's take two -maybe three- hardiness to deal with the latter. The ravager will still prove tough whatsoever due to on-hit dispell.
@Arunsun: Odd about that AC thing. Whenever I maximized AC, I always had 18 DEX or more. I didn't know you're stuck at -20 without it.
Melissan's base THAC0 is -7. Her weapon has a +5 bonus. And her 19 STR will give her another +4. So her THAC0 should be -15, not -12 or -14. You can get -3 AC versus piercing from full plate and another from the Girdle of Piercing. So that's -30 AC against Melissan, who therefore has a 20-25% hit chance.
Hardiness should not be dispellable by the Ravager's attack. The effects are tagged as non-dispellable.
And not everyone in a party will have maxed-out AC. But anyone with warrior levels can get Hardiness.
Amelyssan is Cleric Mage and (surprisingly) has 0 proficiency for spear, meaning a +2 malus. 19 Strength is -3 -not 4 - Thac0. So that s a -12 in the end. With that value, and a -30AC, that ends up in a 14% hit prob
By the way I do get that not everyone will have maxed AC and 100% magic resistance. I am just focusing on one character, as my "challenge" at the moment is to find the best solo classes ( so far, topped by Berzerker mage from actually quite far)
Hardiness is not dispellable, but I was thinking of Blur and Mirror Image in my case. (Though it would be unlucky if he did hit the real me with such AC+ mirror image)
I really enjoy the Blackguard class. It kills mages in a different way from the Inquisitor: it poisons them. Also, their immunity to level drain and fear is nice. Absorb health is amazing. It does a chunk of irresistible damage that is cast very quickly. I use it to finish off bosses that are near death.
It's worth noting that since CHARNAME is evil, he or she gets horror as an innate ability. It's very useful.
@Arunsun, @semiticgod - thank you both, your analysis of the precise numbers has been interesting and informative.
My own experience fighting the various ToB bosses fits fairly well with what both of you say. With AC better than -20, Hardiness is obviously helpful, but you can probably survive long enough to win even without Hardiness. With an "ordinary" warrior AC of (say) -10, Hardiness is key.
Blackguard - I don't like these guys super cheap and have no real weakness as well as nabbing one of the strengths of another class that has to pay dearly for its skill set. 3/10
Shadow dancer - I like them, I don't think that the game can handle them though which is a shame its a class that basically screams cheese imo. 6/10
Dwarven Defender - I like it a lot, that said I don't think I cant handle being restricted in weapons so heavily. great for bp but I wouldn't use one as charname 7/10
Dragon disciple - these guys are pretty great, dripping with rp and have some cool quirks that can make for some enjoyable combat 8/10
The monks - excellent these were badly needed imo its a shame certain other classes couldn't get this love too. The option to play as a Sune worshipper is pretty awesome. My only grievance is missing out on some of the standard monk stuff is a heavy blow as they are some of my favourite powers in the game. 10/10
Playing one in IWD. Good meat shield for swarms, reduced movement speed can be a pain though. Throwing axes are your friends here. Best meat shield in the game due to High HP and High AC from heavier armours. Using it in tandem with a Barbarian, the DD argos the swarm and the Barbarian using it speed, comes in and flanks, attacks, retreats, and repeats.
Shadowdancer
Again, playing one in IWD (gnome single class) and is carrying the party as it scouts ahead and takes on 3 to 5 enemies at a time with stealth tactics. Doesn't deal heavy damage, but deals enough over time. Has taken on bosses by himself and won while rest of the party is grey screened. Shadow step gets him out of trouble. Archers are his bane though.
Blackguard Sun soul monk Dark moon monk
Haven't played them yet as single classed humans dont thrill me
Dragon disciple
Started on in BG2 and enjoying it. I am the type of person who saves spells for the next encounter so missing one per level isnt that bad for me. Having a higher AC early on allows me to tank with the best of them. You need to build it like a fighter instead of a mage to get its full benefits. Higher con also allows you to start at 14 con insteadof 16 allowing you to put those 2 points elsewhere. Not a big deal if you are a retailer, but beneficial if you like playing with average stats.
Comments
Shadowdancer - I still remember the very first version of this kit. She was a beast, without the need to wait for a cooldown, she could simply backstab every 6 seconds. I also remember a huge wave of posts about this kit, people either praising its awesomeness or complaining about its OP nature. For me, it was like a breath of a fresh air, it was a way to play the game anew, a unique experience. After the cooldown had been nerfed the kit lost a little bit of fun to me but I still regard it as an exciting thief and actually plan to test Shadowdancer's special HLAs in a future no-reload solo run. 8/10
Dark Moon Monk - the favourite monk for me. Detect Illusion, Blur and Mirror Image make her the best choice in this class. The fact she still has a deadly palm with a chance of insta-kill adds greatly. 10/10
Dwarven Defender - I like, no, I adore dwarves. "Once you go dwarf you always go dwarf". The kit is finely balanced and every time I tried it I didn't regret. Her immunity to physical damage that is reachable with several items is of course a bright side. 9/10
Dragon Disciple - a nice way to slightly shorten a huge power of a sorcerer. Although I still haven't fully tested her, I understand there's a solid RP concept behind such a character. A regenerating mage that has some dragon powers... Although many would say that additional spells, especially at the 8th and the 9th levels, are better than the breath attack. 7/10
General AC caps at -20, before dex bonus (and a possible single-wielding bonus) is applied. Which is -24 with 18 dex indeed. That is also before weapon-specific protection like those provided by girdles or armors.
Meaning that reaching and AC such as -28 against a specific type of weapon does make you hard to hit (Except by human Abazigal and Demogorgon).
I digged a little further to find notable enemy thac0 and I found I was mistaken about the lowest Thac0
Still, it does not get lower than -13 (which would be 1 hit for 4 attacks on a -28AC) except for the following enemies:
Human Abazigal: -28 (-13 in drake form)
Demogorgon: -22
Yaga Shura: -16
The Ravager: -15
Amelyssan is actually -12
Human Abazigal usually lasts no more than 2 round, so does Yaga Shura.
The Ravager and Demogorgon are the two single problems. Ok, let's take two -maybe three- hardiness to deal with the latter. The ravager will still prove tough whatsoever due to on-hit dispell.
Melissan's base THAC0 is -7. Her weapon has a +5 bonus. And her 19 STR will give her another +4. So her THAC0 should be -15, not -12 or -14. You can get -3 AC versus piercing from full plate and another from the Girdle of Piercing. So that's -30 AC against Melissan, who therefore has a 20-25% hit chance.
Hardiness should not be dispellable by the Ravager's attack. The effects are tagged as non-dispellable.
And not everyone in a party will have maxed-out AC. But anyone with warrior levels can get Hardiness.
So that s a -12 in the end. With that value, and a -30AC, that ends up in a 14% hit prob
By the way I do get that not everyone will have maxed AC and 100% magic resistance. I am just focusing on one character, as my "challenge" at the moment is to find the best solo classes ( so far, topped by Berzerker mage from actually quite far)
Hardiness is not dispellable, but I was thinking of Blur and Mirror Image in my case. (Though it would be unlucky if he did hit the real me with such AC+ mirror image)
It's worth noting that since CHARNAME is evil, he or she gets horror as an innate ability. It's very useful.
My own experience fighting the various ToB bosses fits fairly well with what both of you say. With AC better than -20, Hardiness is obviously helpful, but you can probably survive long enough to win even without Hardiness. With an "ordinary" warrior AC of (say) -10, Hardiness is key.
I do agree AC is important even into TOB. I've heard many people say it doesn't really matter, and that TOB enemies have 95% hit chance all the time.
@Gallowglass: Thank you! We aim to please.
"A line of dwarven defenders is a far better defense than a 10-foot-thick brickwall, and much more dangerous"
I was really enjoying my BG playthrough as one, until I accidentally saved over my save game file whilst simultaneously playing a second evil party.
Blackguard - I don't like these guys super cheap and have no real weakness as well as nabbing one of the strengths of another class that has to pay dearly for its skill set. 3/10
Shadow dancer - I like them, I don't think that the game can handle them though which is a shame its a class that basically screams cheese imo. 6/10
Dwarven Defender - I like it a lot, that said I don't think I cant handle being restricted in weapons so heavily. great for bp but I wouldn't use one as charname 7/10
Dragon disciple - these guys are pretty great, dripping with rp and have some cool quirks that can make for some enjoyable combat 8/10
The monks - excellent these were badly needed imo its a shame certain other classes couldn't get this love too. The option to play as a Sune worshipper is pretty awesome. My only grievance is missing out on some of the standard monk stuff is a heavy blow as they are some of my favourite powers in the game.
10/10
Using it in tandem with a Barbarian, the DD argos the swarm and the Barbarian using it speed, comes in and flanks, attacks, retreats, and repeats. Again, playing one in IWD (gnome single class) and is carrying the party as it scouts ahead and takes on 3 to 5 enemies at a time with stealth tactics. Doesn't deal heavy damage, but deals enough over time. Has taken on bosses by himself and won while rest of the party is grey screened. Shadow step gets him out of trouble. Archers are his bane though. Haven't played them yet as single classed humans dont thrill me Started on in BG2 and enjoying it. I am the type of person who saves spells for the next encounter so missing one per level isnt that bad for me. Having a higher AC early on allows me to tank with the best of them.
You need to build it like a fighter instead of a mage to get its full benefits. Higher con also allows you to start at 14 con insteadof 16 allowing you to put those 2 points elsewhere. Not a big deal if you are a retailer, but beneficial if you like playing with average stats.