I don't know if this was asked before, but afaik BG(II) is 2nd edition rule set, and paladin class is restricted to humans only. I know my mods do not reflect all rules, I invented potions and spell effects and what not... But with Mazzy struggling with her fate not being able to be a paladin although she strives to be one with all her heart, seeing a tiefling paladin seems... odd? At least extraordinary. Don't get me wrong, I think she is a wonderful character, but I would like to hear your motives and thoughts to this discrepancy.
I haven't much knowledge of pre-3e rule books but I feel there's a difference from 'officially being a paladin' versus 'having paladin or paladin-like powers'. If anything Mazzy shows that non-human races are capable of being granted paladin-like powers and her frustration is over knowing she'll never achieve the paladin title. Sirene is a similar deal - she was trained by a paladin and has paladin abilities but if I think carefully I think she actually rarely ever refers to herself as a paladin because she has serious doubts of whether she's worthy or others would consider her worthy of the title. If you were to compare her to the other paladins she has much more in common with Mazzy than Ajantis.
That said I've always disliked the idea that before 3e tieflings had to follow different rules to their equivalent races and I think it's unfair that a tiefling raised and trained by humans couldn't develop the same skills.
You are right about Mazzy's powers. And, I totally forgot about BeamDog introducing a half-orc Blackguard... Poor Mazzy, she was just born too early, I guess. Thank you for the explanation!
First off, I want to say that what I've played so far is great, and that the character concept, as specific as it is, is something that I really enjoy, and the writing is really nice.
I waited until both the BGEE 1 and 2 mods were completed and installed them for an EET playthrough. While I understand that you have very little involvement (IIRC you didn't even patch the mods to work with it, the EET dev did), I've encountered a very odd bug while going through the BG1 content; according the the record screen, Sirine doesn't have her kit.
This is odd, since she very clearly has the actual class features. She's been gaining 1d12 HP, has her Sacrifice ability, and I believe has the stunted THACO she should. That said, she hasn't reached a level where she would get another ability or another THACO penalty - this could very well be a case of the kit just not displaying for some reason.
I understand that this is very likely outside of your control, but I thought it was odd enough to be worth mentioning.
EDIT: She gained her Martyrdom ability at level 5 like she should, so it's just a case of the kit name/description not showing correctly.
just wanted to thank you for this great mod. I am at the end of Siege of Dragonspear now, and enjoyed playing with Sirene very much. Can´t wait to test the BG2 version.
I think SIrene will fit rather nicely into my next character's party. I did a quick skim through this thread, but figured my best bet was to just ask.
Is her BG2 content complete?
Looks like a very interesting character, so I'm looking forward to using her, as I want my next run to be a complete saga playthrough. Hopefully restartitis doesn't hit me like a ton of bricks this time.
Fixing an oversight across all my NPC mods: my .cre files were not flagged to ignore LoB mode, meaning they will all gain the level and hit point boosts and become insanely overpowered as a result. I've released updates to fix this issue, so my NPCs are now usable in LoB.
I haven't much knowledge of pre-3e rule books but I feel there's a difference from 'officially being a paladin' versus 'having paladin or paladin-like powers'. If anything Mazzy shows that non-human races are capable of being granted paladin-like powers and her frustration is over knowing she'll never achieve the paladin title. Sirene is a similar deal - she was trained by a paladin and has paladin abilities but if I think carefully I think she actually rarely ever refers to herself as a paladin because she has serious doubts of whether she's worthy or others would consider her worthy of the title. If you were to compare her to the other paladins she has much more in common with Mazzy than Ajantis.
That said I've always disliked the idea that before 3e tieflings had to follow different rules to their equivalent races and I think it's unfair that a tiefling raised and trained by humans couldn't develop the same skills.
Having played and enjoyed this mod very much, I can confirm that for an unbiased observer this internal struggle of Sirene comes across very well. The *can a tiefling be paladin* is a red thread through the mod and it is well adressed. As such her being a follower of Illmater is a great choice as well.
Just finished her BG1 portion and was incredibly impressed. She is very well written and likeable across the board. Very much looking forward to traveling with her in SoD.
I agree with @PaulaMigrate that this internal struggle of Sirene comes across very well. Truly good people often feel that they are not quite good enough. The self-righteous ones that think too highly of themselves are the ones with the real problem.
Having played and enjoyed this mod very much, I can confirm that for an unbiased observer this internal struggle of Sirene comes across very well. The *can a tiefling be paladin* is a red thread through the mod and it is well adressed. As such her being a follower of Illmater is a great choice as well.
Just finished her BG1 portion and was incredibly impressed. She is very well written and likeable across the board. Very much looking forward to traveling with her in SoD.
I agree with @PaulaMigrate that this internal struggle of Sirene comes across very well. Truly good people often feel that they are not quite good enough. The self-righteous ones that think too highly of themselves are the ones with the real problem.
You know, it's comments like these that reassure me of the decisions I make in my writing. Funny, she was originally a paladin, then she was a cleric, then when I finally began writing I changed her back to a paladin again. From the moment I started to the days after I released I was still wondering if that was a mistake. Seeing what's written here just gives me more confidence that I did make the right choice.
Thank you all. Really. This is what really helps me.
I'm working on my first playthrough for Sirene, and I've not gotten any friendship talks or other banters this far. I'm not too terribly far into the game (Chapter 2, havent actually gone into Nashkel Mines yet) - but I've been running around for a few hours. She has commented a handful of times on quests and the like (For example - she interjects and prevents you from siding with Silke).
Is there any particular event that will set off the friendship talks? Alternatively - is there any global variable I can set to get it to start (Took a quick look just now - The "Dont Talk" one is set to 0, which I'm guessing is good if I want her to talk. Her PID on that issue also seems correct - in that she should be talking. All the other PIDs also seem to be there).
I wanted to pop back in, as I'm having another difficulty with the mod. I played most of the way through the BG EE before deciding to restart - again with Sirene. I know that your readme has a single context specific dialogue (Resting at an inn) - and I havent been able to get it to trigger on either playthrough.
I took a look at the dialogue files, and it seems like I need to the Sirenetalksbg1 counter to be at 12 before resting at an inn will trigger it, while it's only at 11 in EEkeeper. Double checking just now, and it was the same in my previous play through.
Is there something here I might be missing? Would just setting the counter to 12 work (as a test, I did it and then rested at an Inn, which didnt cause the talk to occur either. Maybe it's related to a timer?).
Appreciate the help again. I'm seriously enjoying the mod : )
Heh... heheh... I have a confession to make. Talks starting from the resting at inn talk will never fire because of a typo that slipped in at some point (probably when I was working on SoD, so that means it's been bugged for over a year now and I never realized why). I need to update this so it gets fixed. If you want to change it manually you need to open the .tp2 file in the mod folder and change this:
Although even without this, the overall friendship path still works from start to end, you just lose a few dialogues in between, so it doesn't 'break' anything per se.
Okay, rolled out a patch for the above issue. Those talks should launch as they are supposed to now. I can't believe it took me this long to notice why this was happening...
On another note, not relevant to the update or this mod in general, but I wanted to, hmm... how should I put it... pitch an idea for another mod concept that I put a bit of work into but ultimately set aside in favor of Drake (who was drafted around the same time) on the grounds that I'm not sure if the premise was something people would like... but now that I have more time available to dedicate to writing I'm itching to revive it for reasons... if there's a bit of interest in this I'll put a bit more work into it after Drake-SoD is completed. This wasn't really something I felt like needed enough attention to warrant making a separate thread, but I'm interested in the thoughts of those that have an interest in my mod. Feel free to share thoughts.
(Don't mind the portrait too much, it was taken from my personal resources and I'm using it in absence of something more suitable right now, the mod is only a concept as of right now after all)
Although even without this, the overall friendship path still works from start to end, you just lose a few dialogues in between, so it doesn't 'break' anything per se.
It's probably because it works that it hasn't been brought up earlier. Let's face it, a lot of people play a mod without reading the readme files unless they have a problem as most people have the: "If all else fails read the instructions" mentality, which actually works much of the time.
Although even without this, the overall friendship path still works from start to end, you just lose a few dialogues in between, so it doesn't 'break' anything per se.
It's probably because it works that it hasn't been brought up earlier. Let's face it, a lot of people play a mod without reading the readme files unless they have a problem as most people have the: "If all else fails read the instructions" mentality, which actually works much of the time.
True. Though I'm surprised due to the fact that the talks worked previously before I caused the typo (likely when I added SoD content) then stopped working after that and no one said anything. Then again I'm not sure how many people even played the mod multiple times from start to finish so maybe it isn't something easily noticed - even I never realized just why those dialogs never appeared across my multiple runs. I just thought I was playing through the game too quickly.
Heh... heheh... I have a confession to make. Talks starting from the resting at inn talk will never fire because of a typo that slipped in at some point (probably when I was working on SoD, so that means it's been bugged for over a year now and I never realized why). I need to update this so it gets fixed. If you want to change it manually you need to open the .tp2 file in the mod folder and change this:
Although even without this, the overall friendship path still works from start to end, you just lose a few dialogues in between, so it doesn't 'break' anything per se.
Interesting - I'll manually update. Will I still need to adjust the friendship counter, or will it work as normal once updated?
Second question, just because I'm curious - How does the friendship path continue as normal? It seems like the dialogues would be permanently stalled here. I guess I'm wondering how the path could have continued to the end given that glitch? Do they skip ahead at a certain event? Are there different dialogue trees?
Aura sounds pretty interesting. I'm wondering how her mechanics would play out (Automaton's stats, for example) as well as the runes aspect. A side note on that thought: Something I commonly think about as it relates to NPC mods... it seems like a lot of the time, Mod creators feel compelled to give a character his or her own specific armor or weapon, which receives periodic upgrades through out the game. Sirene has Brimstone, although I get the impression it's just a starter weapon, and I should swap it out for anything I come across that better as I get it. Anyways - the point I'm trying to make, that itemization is one of the joys of a D&D themed game. The idea of getting a new weapon or armor.
If Aura's abilities are largely the same starting at level 4 (it seems like?) and she isnt necessarily designed to directly deal much damage (Presumably the Automaton and some combination of the traps and runes) - would we ever think twice about what gear she has(Mages are the same, but they get new spell levels)? Just something that came to mind since you were asking about feedback : )
Nothing needs to be adjusted, I think. If you're at the right stage of the track it'll continue where it's supposed to.
As for why the path doesn't get interrupted, it's because the chapter-based dialogs are coded to take over whenever you reach the Cloakwood section regardless of where the path was previously. Essentially there are two different paths coded to go off alongside each other and while the time based talks was bugged, the chapter based ones weren't.
Aura's kit provides her with a huge variety of potions, explosives, trick arrows and a few spells from her arcane runes - which is not a common skill for Lantanese gnomes. She just has an unusual fascination for applying magic to her inventions. Her rather poor stats are meant to make her a weak character directly, but I think the artificer is probably the most powerful kit I've ever made. She is a heavily offensive character in gameplay but it requires management.
Her short bow, Sunshooter, is an upgrading weapon that cannot be removed, although there is a justification for this as her unique arrows are special creations like Jan's flashers that only work if they're launched by her specially designed weapon. However it's the only item that is essential and doesn't get outclassed quickly.
Sirene's Brimstone was just to make up for the lateness of good two handed swords in BG1. Unlike Aura's weapon, it has very little significance to her character besides a minor part in her backstory.
It just goes to show you that I dont know how to judge kit descriptions to know what is going to be powerful. I do really like the idea of a character who makes potions/traps/arrows/runes as a means to be effective in combat. It makes sense to leave her with a special weapon, ala Jan.
I dont know a whole lot about modding (I've tried a few times, never got much past tutorials) - is it possible to have quests give special abilities? (Or maybe a one time usable item that grans the special ability). It would be neat, from a user point of view, if upon completion of a specific quest - a specific new arrow/potion/rune was able to be created (In my head, I'm thinking something like - Killing Firekraag grants Aura the ability to make a more power fire trap. Or arrow. Or potion. Or rune).
It just goes to show you that I dont know how to judge kit descriptions to know what is going to be powerful. I do really like the idea of a character who makes potions/traps/arrows/runes as a means to be effective in combat. It makes sense to leave her with a special weapon, ala Jan.
I dont know a whole lot about modding (I've tried a few times, never got much past tutorials) - is it possible to have quests give special abilities? (Or maybe a one time usable item that grans the special ability). It would be neat, from a user point of view, if upon completion of a specific quest - a specific new arrow/potion/rune was able to be created (In my head, I'm thinking something like - Killing Firekraag grants Aura the ability to make a more power fire trap. Or arrow. Or potion. Or rune).
Yeah, it's very easy to do. It's already an idea I have in place. She won't have any explosives until a certain stage. The only problem with gaining abilities from events is that it's very possible to miss the opportunity in the case of the character not being present or dead, which is why I'm not adding it in too many places.
Comments
I haven't much knowledge of pre-3e rule books but I feel there's a difference from 'officially being a paladin' versus 'having paladin or paladin-like powers'. If anything Mazzy shows that non-human races are capable of being granted paladin-like powers and her frustration is over knowing she'll never achieve the paladin title. Sirene is a similar deal - she was trained by a paladin and has paladin abilities but if I think carefully I think she actually rarely ever refers to herself as a paladin because she has serious doubts of whether she's worthy or others would consider her worthy of the title. If you were to compare her to the other paladins she has much more in common with Mazzy than Ajantis.
That said I've always disliked the idea that before 3e tieflings had to follow different rules to their equivalent races and I think it's unfair that a tiefling raised and trained by humans couldn't develop the same skills.
I waited until both the BGEE 1 and 2 mods were completed and installed them for an EET playthrough.
While I understand that you have very little involvement (IIRC you didn't even patch the mods to work with it, the EET dev did), I've encountered a very odd bug while going through the BG1 content; according the the record screen, Sirine doesn't have her kit.
This is odd, since she very clearly has the actual class features. She's been gaining 1d12 HP, has her Sacrifice ability, and I believe has the stunted THACO she should. That said, she hasn't reached a level where she would get another ability or another THACO penalty - this could very well be a case of the kit just not displaying for some reason.
I understand that this is very likely outside of your control, but I thought it was odd enough to be worth mentioning.
EDIT: She gained her Martyrdom ability at level 5 like she should, so it's just a case of the kit name/description not showing correctly.
just wanted to thank you for this great mod. I am at the end of Siege of Dragonspear now, and enjoyed playing with Sirene very much. Can´t wait to test the BG2 version.
Aww, thank you so very much
Is her BG2 content complete?
Looks like a very interesting character, so I'm looking forward to using her, as I want my next run to be a complete saga playthrough. Hopefully restartitis doesn't hit me like a ton of bricks this time.
Pray for me.
Yea, BG2-Sirene is complete and playable, you can get it here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/62163/npc-mod-sirene-npc-for-bg2-ee-v1-4
EDIT: It's my fault, i forgot about this -> https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50340/bg-ee-2-0-and-siege-of-dragonspear-compatible-mods
Great! Hope you'll have a fun time.
Thank you all. Really. This is what really helps me.
Is there any particular event that will set off the friendship talks? Alternatively - is there any global variable I can set to get it to start (Took a quick look just now - The "Dont Talk" one is set to 0, which I'm guessing is good if I want her to talk. Her PID on that issue also seems correct - in that she should be talking. All the other PIDs also seem to be there).
You need to clear out the Nashkel Mines before she will start talking with you.
Anyways. Good deal. Was worried there was a glitch in my install. Turns out the glitch was with my patience.
Thanks : )
I took a look at the dialogue files, and it seems like I need to the Sirenetalksbg1 counter to be at 12 before resting at an inn will trigger it, while it's only at 11 in EEkeeper. Double checking just now, and it was the same in my previous play through.
Is there something here I might be missing? Would just setting the counter to 12 work (as a test, I did it and then rested at an Inn, which didnt cause the talk to occur either. Maybe it's related to a timer?).
Appreciate the help again. I'm seriously enjoying the mod : )
Heh... heheh... I have a confession to make. Talks starting from the resting at inn talk will never fire because of a typo that slipped in at some point (probably when I was working on SoD, so that means it's been bugged for over a year now and I never realized why). I need to update this so it gets fixed. If you want to change it manually you need to open the .tp2 file in the mod folder and change this:
APPEND ~pdialog.2da~
~C0Sirene C0SirenP C0SirenJ C02SireD~
UNLESS ~C0Siren~
To this:
APPEND ~pdialog.2da~
~C0Sirene C0SirenP C0SirenJ C0SirenD~
UNLESS ~C0Sirene~
Although even without this, the overall friendship path still works from start to end, you just lose a few dialogues in between, so it doesn't 'break' anything per se.
On another note, not relevant to the update or this mod in general, but I wanted to, hmm... how should I put it... pitch an idea for another mod concept that I put a bit of work into but ultimately set aside in favor of Drake (who was drafted around the same time) on the grounds that I'm not sure if the premise was something people would like... but now that I have more time available to dedicate to writing I'm itching to revive it for reasons... if there's a bit of interest in this I'll put a bit more work into it after Drake-SoD is completed. This wasn't really something I felt like needed enough attention to warrant making a separate thread, but I'm interested in the thoughts of those that have an interest in my mod. Feel free to share thoughts.
(Don't mind the portrait too much, it was taken from my personal resources and I'm using it in absence of something more suitable right now, the mod is only a concept as of right now after all)
Interesting - I'll manually update. Will I still need to adjust the friendship counter, or will it work as normal once updated?
Second question, just because I'm curious - How does the friendship path continue as normal? It seems like the dialogues would be permanently stalled here. I guess I'm wondering how the path could have continued to the end given that glitch? Do they skip ahead at a certain event? Are there different dialogue trees?
Aura sounds pretty interesting. I'm wondering how her mechanics would play out (Automaton's stats, for example) as well as the runes aspect. A side note on that thought: Something I commonly think about as it relates to NPC mods... it seems like a lot of the time, Mod creators feel compelled to give a character his or her own specific armor or weapon, which receives periodic upgrades through out the game. Sirene has Brimstone, although I get the impression it's just a starter weapon, and I should swap it out for anything I come across that better as I get it. Anyways - the point I'm trying to make, that itemization is one of the joys of a D&D themed game. The idea of getting a new weapon or armor.
If Aura's abilities are largely the same starting at level 4 (it seems like?) and she isnt necessarily designed to directly deal much damage (Presumably the Automaton and some combination of the traps and runes) - would we ever think twice about what gear she has(Mages are the same, but they get new spell levels)? Just something that came to mind since you were asking about feedback : )
Also. Totally up for new Gnome characters.
As for why the path doesn't get interrupted, it's because the chapter-based dialogs are coded to take over whenever you reach the Cloakwood section regardless of where the path was previously. Essentially there are two different paths coded to go off alongside each other and while the time based talks was bugged, the chapter based ones weren't.
Aura's kit provides her with a huge variety of potions, explosives, trick arrows and a few spells from her arcane runes - which is not a common skill for Lantanese gnomes. She just has an unusual fascination for applying magic to her inventions. Her rather poor stats are meant to make her a weak character directly, but I think the artificer is probably the most powerful kit I've ever made. She is a heavily offensive character in gameplay but it requires management.
Her short bow, Sunshooter, is an upgrading weapon that cannot be removed, although there is a justification for this as her unique arrows are special creations like Jan's flashers that only work if they're launched by her specially designed weapon. However it's the only item that is essential and doesn't get outclassed quickly.
Sirene's Brimstone was just to make up for the lateness of good two handed swords in BG1. Unlike Aura's weapon, it has very little significance to her character besides a minor part in her backstory.
I dont know a whole lot about modding (I've tried a few times, never got much past tutorials) - is it possible to have quests give special abilities? (Or maybe a one time usable item that grans the special ability). It would be neat, from a user point of view, if upon completion of a specific quest - a specific new arrow/potion/rune was able to be created (In my head, I'm thinking something like - Killing Firekraag grants Aura the ability to make a more power fire trap. Or arrow. Or potion. Or rune).