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Unpopular opinions

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  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,170
    Nimran said:

    Neera's BG intro was not as intrusive as people think, nor was it anything that didn't happen in the vanilla games.

    This, so much fucking this! How was it any less intrusive than Viconia's entrance, or that other character I can't currently remember who forces you into a conversation.

    I really wish I could remember their name.

    NimranJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    dunbar said:

    Something else that I believe to be underrated: "Command" - a level 1 spell available form the start that is incredibly effective against opponents in the early stages of the game (especially those bloody assassins that keep popping up all over place) as it allows you to get the first hit in.

    Also works on ankhegs, knocks em out pretty much every time.

    JuliusBorisovSkatanFinnTheHumanCrevsDaak
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827

    CHARNAME's

    Mages are nearly unnecessary in BG1. You're better off with another archer or frontliner plus 5 arrows of dispelling for the few fights that need dispelling.

    Pure class thieves and kitted thieves are great without having to dual- or multi-class. A multi-class thief is not as good a thief as a non-multi thief. All thief skills can be important if you know how to use them, so having points sooner is a great benefit.

    But the sleep spell.

    No just no, mutli thief kills pure class in every way possible, my last mutli focused on stealth, he couldn't pick locks or find traps, but he was invisible all the time and he hardly ever missed a backstab. I just had Immy and Jan for a bit to handle all the other stuff.

    JuliusBorisovPantalion
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,303


    BTW - Imoen and Anomen totally cheated their dual class levels. They both have eight levels of a class that they never had to earn as soon as you meet them in BG2.

    Fair enough on Anomen, as his stats are inadequate, but I don't understand with Imoen? Is it because you personally like to keep her as a Thief in BG1?

    If so, fair enough, but as far as I can see they haven't enforced anything illegal... just changed your personal story...

  • NaveenNaveen Member Posts: 81
    ajwz said:

    -Importing bg1 to the bg2 engine fails to capture a lot of the charm and romance of bg1
    -Banters don't necessarily make npcs more interesting in bg1
    -High level combat is bg2 is boring
    -"cheap" tactics are perfectly valid and often fit quite nicely into rolepaying a high int character
    -a lot of the opinions in this thread are not, infact, "unpopular opinions"

    I agree with all of them.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 9,002
    ajwz said:


    -a lot of the opinions in this thread are not, infact, "unpopular opinions"

    Nuh-uh.

    VallmyrNimranNonnahswriterCrevsDaak
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 3,881
    edited August 2015

    ajwz said:


    -a lot of the opinions in this thread are not, infact, "unpopular opinions"

    Nuh-uh.
    Nobody agrees with you, and that's final!

    semiticgodBlackraven
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 4,566
    It might not feel fun or safe to express our unpopular opinions in this thread if it makes people want to argue with them. But I guess that's probably an unpopular opinion. ;)

    GrumsemiticgodBlackraven
  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 7,721
    lroumen said:

    Jon Irenicus is a worse antagonist than Sarevok. In bg1 the story for the protagonist unfolds more naturally and you get a better feeling for the motives of the antagonist through direct interaction with his lackeys and hired assassins than in bg2 where everything is told via cut scenes to the player instead of to the protagonist.

    So much this! I prefer Sarevok so much more as an antagonist to Jon Irenicus. And how the plot unfolds is in my opinion so much more better in BG1 than in BG2.

    Anyway I fear this is a truly unpopular opinion. Just let me say, I don't wanna argue about this.

    I will never understand the hype for Irenicus, nor will many other players understand why I prefer Sarevok.
    So let's just say it's a matter of taste.

    *runs as fast as possible away from this thread and from the upcoming backlash*

    BelgarathMTHGotural
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,170
    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Artona
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,680
    Grum said:

    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.

    Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
    He could probably have killed any of the 5, but would have had problem with Melissan once she got the essence. If he had gotten your essence (killed you in SoA) he would have obliterated Melissan.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,170
    Grum said:

    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.

    Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
    And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.

    Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?

    Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,680

    Grum said:

    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.

    Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
    And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.

    Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?

    Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
    He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,608
    edited August 2015
    We need less Gazebos.

    (Ohh who am I kidding no one could ever think this)

    Post edited by elminster on
    JuliusBorisovlolienSxphxrxthCrevsDaak
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,170
    SionIV said:

    Grum said:

    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.

    Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
    And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.

    Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?

    Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
    He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
    You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.

    I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,680
    edited August 2015

    SionIV said:

    Grum said:

    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.

    Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
    And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.

    Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?

    Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
    He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
    You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.

    I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
    We don't have any information on him from outside of the game, so It's not possible to answer that. What can be said with certain is his level (Wizard 30), which is much higher than most other mages including one level above Elminster.

    So yes, his level is the only information we have on him. And a few quotes in game, one saying that he is as powerful as you can become without being a god.

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2015
    SionIV said:

    SionIV said:

    Grum said:

    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.

    Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
    And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.

    Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?

    Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
    He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
    You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.

    I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
    We don't have any information on him from outside of the game, so It's not possible to answer that. What can be said with certain is his level (Wizard 30), which is much higher than most other mages including one level above Elminster.

    So yes, his level is the only information we have on him. And a few quotes in game, one saying that he is as powerful as you can become without being a god.
    So no feats, so no proof, the end. Lolarch, Elminster, and even Sam have feats proving thier prowess. Until we get lore wore speaking on what he has actually done... I won't even put him in the top 10.

    I mean, you can say anything, squirrel girl can say that she is the equal of the one above all, but until she shows my cosmic level abilities that put the tribunal and the beyonder in their ln their place, all she is doing is talking.

    In game lorewise, he had the soul of a demigod! He didn't even have to fight you, he could've teleported you to another nation far away, or hell to another plane or realm, and then started again! But he fought and lost... I'm just saying I'm not impressed, I'm the opposite of impressed, I'm unpressed, antipressed!

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,680
    edited August 2015

    SionIV said:

    SionIV said:

    Grum said:

    Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?

    Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.

    Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.

    Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
    And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.

    Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?

    Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
    He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
    You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.

    I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
    We don't have any information on him from outside of the game, so It's not possible to answer that. What can be said with certain is his level (Wizard 30), which is much higher than most other mages including one level above Elminster.

    So yes, his level is the only information we have on him. And a few quotes in game, one saying that he is as powerful as you can become without being a god.
    So no feats, so no proof, the end. Lolarch, Elminster, and even Sam have feats proving thier prowess. Until we get lore wore speaking on what he has actually done... I won't even put him in the top 10.
    You do understand that you're comparing power levels between characters from books, and a final boss in a game, right? Irenicus won't even beat a wet behind the ears goblin in the forgotten realms books, because he doesn't exist there. The only comparing you can do is look at Drizzt and Elminster in the game, both whom he is much more powerful than.

    I find it highly amusing that you're this biased against him. If you're not going to take the game into consideration, then this discussion stops here. For all you know he doesn't exist in your world, so there is no comparing.

    [Edited] : The only reason Irenicus doesn't kill you, gain your bhaalspawn essence and destroy the five others, ascending to godhood. Is because he is the antagonist and because of that, can't win. He could at any moment have killed you after he took your soul.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
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