I don't like SCS, because I think it changes the game into a set of "puzzles" that you need to memorize a "solution" for, rather than being an rpg about story-telling and character development.
As with some other posters, I don't like Time Stop, because the enemies against which you really need it are immune to it. For the other enemies against which you trivialized them with the spell, you could have beaten them anyway without Time Stop - it just would have taken more...wait for it...time.
As with some other posters, I don't like dual classing. I think it makes you a very weak, gimped character for most of the game content. It only pays off in late SoA and ToB. So, if those are the only portions of the game you care about, then, sure, be a dual class. I, on the other hand, prefer a balanced power curve for my character over the entire content of the game. I play for my story that I make up about myself, not for how "uber" I'm going to be in ToB.
BTW - Imoen and Anomen totally cheated their dual class levels. They both have eight levels of a class that they never had to earn as soon as you meet them in BG2.
Neera's BG intro was not as intrusive as people think, nor was it anything that didn't happen in the vanilla games.
This, so much fucking this! How was it any less intrusive than Viconia's entrance, or that other character I can't currently remember who forces you into a conversation.
Something else that I believe to be underrated: "Command" - a level 1 spell available form the start that is incredibly effective against opponents in the early stages of the game (especially those bloody assassins that keep popping up all over place) as it allows you to get the first hit in.
Also works on ankhegs, knocks em out pretty much every time.
Mages are nearly unnecessary in BG1. You're better off with another archer or frontliner plus 5 arrows of dispelling for the few fights that need dispelling.
Pure class thieves and kitted thieves are great without having to dual- or multi-class. A multi-class thief is not as good a thief as a non-multi thief. All thief skills can be important if you know how to use them, so having points sooner is a great benefit.
But the sleep spell.
No just no, mutli thief kills pure class in every way possible, my last mutli focused on stealth, he couldn't pick locks or find traps, but he was invisible all the time and he hardly ever missed a backstab. I just had Immy and Jan for a bit to handle all the other stuff.
I think dual classing is fun because it lets you play 2 different characters.
Example: I recently finished a saga run with a lvl 13 shadow dancer turned fighter.
BG1 and chapters 1 + part of 2 I played a shadow dancer. It was fun, but it is the same way of fighting (soloing, really) the entire time. Dual class him and with quest xp he turned into a pretty decent fighter really fast. Even if 1-2 levels down, grand mastery with katanas, meaning Celestial Fury and Belm offhand for 5apr, made him a good front liner.
Towards the end of SoA he got his shadow dancer levels back. By that time many enemies can see through invisibility (even with non-detection) or are immune to backstab. Meaning he became someone who could front line, while getting opportune backstabs in and could shadow walk out of really bad situations.
This, in effect, gave me 3 different play styles during that saga run, which helped me keep interest in the character.
BTW - Imoen and Anomen totally cheated their dual class levels. They both have eight levels of a class that they never had to earn as soon as you meet them in BG2.
Fair enough on Anomen, as his stats are inadequate, but I don't understand with Imoen? Is it because you personally like to keep her as a Thief in BG1?
If so, fair enough, but as far as I can see they haven't enforced anything illegal... just changed your personal story...
-Importing bg1 to the bg2 engine fails to capture a lot of the charm and romance of bg1 -Banters don't necessarily make npcs more interesting in bg1 -High level combat is bg2 is boring -"cheap" tactics are perfectly valid and often fit quite nicely into rolepaying a high int character -a lot of the opinions in this thread are not, infact, "unpopular opinions"
-Importing bg1 to the bg2 engine fails to capture a lot of the charm and romance of bg1 -Banters don't necessarily make npcs more interesting in bg1 -High level combat is bg2 is boring -"cheap" tactics are perfectly valid and often fit quite nicely into rolepaying a high int character -a lot of the opinions in this thread are not, infact, "unpopular opinions"
It might not feel fun or safe to express our unpopular opinions in this thread if it makes people want to argue with them. But I guess that's probably an unpopular opinion.
1.) Alora is the best NPC in BG:EE. At level 10 with shadow armor and boots of stealth she got the following.
Open Lock - 100 Find Traps - 100 Pick Pocket - 100 Move Silently - 100 Hide in Shadows - 100 Detect Illusions - 10 Set Traps - 35
Throw in the AC and saving throw from her ring (that works with magical armor) and she has an amazing armor class. You don't need two rogues if you have Alora, she can take care of all your thieving needs alone. Oh did i mention she gets shorty saves too? Love her to death.
2.) Cleric is the most complete class in the game and the most versatile character. You've got amazing buffs, great summons, the ability to heal, powerful CC and some really good damage spells as well. You're able to use full plate and a large shield while casting, you can turn undead to make most fights against undead trivial. You'll be able to tank, deal damage with spells or in melee. You get nice HP on level up (1d8 + con) and you get good saving throws. A halfling cleric with a sling is a force to be feared.
The cleric is also a class where you gain a lot from your main stat, they get more spells with a higher wisdom. So when you gain a boost in Wisdom it's actually making a difference, unlike the Wizard/Sorcerer and Intelligence/Charisma. It's especially fun playing BG:EE with a cleric to gain the Wisdom tomes to raise your Wisdom to 21, gaining a huge amount of spells. Once you enter BG2:EE you'll be able to pick up more bonuses.
In BG2:EE the cleric stronghold might not be the most 'oh my god!' one out there, but there are actually 3 different 'factions' you can pick between, and doing the quests for Lathander or Talos are like day and night (Talos especially). No other class have the option to join different factions in their stronghold quest.
3.) Single classes are more fun and at times more powerful than dual classing or multi-classing.
4.) BG:EE is more entertaining than BG2:EE
5.) BG:EE has better NPC's than BG2:EE, with the exception of Jan Jansen.
6.) Sword and Shield style is good and especially worth it in BG:EE.
7.) No-reload is the way to go. - this seems to be more popular nowadays.
8.) Pickpocket is the second best rogue skill (after open lock).
9.) Swashbuckler is the best rogue kit.
10.) Dragon Disciple is really bad.
11.) Hexxat is the worst NPC ever made, in any bioware game. - Not sure if this is popular or unpopular.
12.) Haer'Dalis, Mazzy and Cernd are awesome characters and can get very powerful.
I agree strongly with @typo_tilly that single class thieves are underrated. I like having boohoodles of skill points at low levels. It makes my thief more thiefy and better able to do her job during the early game content. I think it's awesome to wind up in BG2 with traps, locks, stealth, and detect illusion all nearly maxed out. Plus, thieves get their own avatar with a nifty, stylish hood.
I agree strongly with @SionIV that clerics are awesome, powerful, versatile characters. Plus, they are the representatives of ... The Gods ...Angelic sopranos sing "Ahhhhhhhhhh."...
Jon Irenicus is a worse antagonist than Sarevok. In bg1 the story for the protagonist unfolds more naturally and you get a better feeling for the motives of the antagonist through direct interaction with his lackeys and hired assassins than in bg2 where everything is told via cut scenes to the player instead of to the protagonist.
Jon Irenicus is a worse antagonist than Sarevok. In bg1 the story for the protagonist unfolds more naturally and you get a better feeling for the motives of the antagonist through direct interaction with his lackeys and hired assassins than in bg2 where everything is told via cut scenes to the player instead of to the protagonist.
Oh, I also prefer Sarevok. There is a tiny detail about him I love: he is still very human and he is gambling with destiny. The center of the story is Sarevok's wrath, hubris and ambition, his motivations not so much as the "ritual". Everyone tells you that they are not sure his idea of mass-slaughter would actually work. It's not the standard "Villain will get 4 artifacts of power and become God. We know it for certain.", but more like "This guy is so crazed for power he is going to start a world war, and it may actually accomplish nothing."
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
He could probably have killed any of the 5, but would have had problem with Melissan once she got the essence. If he had gotten your essence (killed you in SoA) he would have obliterated Melissan.
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.
Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?
Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.
Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?
Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.
Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?
Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.
I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.
Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?
Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.
I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
We don't have any information on him from outside of the game, so It's not possible to answer that. What can be said with certain is his level (Wizard 30), which is much higher than most other mages including one level above Elminster.
So yes, his level is the only information we have on him. And a few quotes in game, one saying that he is as powerful as you can become without being a god.
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.
Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?
Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.
I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
We don't have any information on him from outside of the game, so It's not possible to answer that. What can be said with certain is his level (Wizard 30), which is much higher than most other mages including one level above Elminster.
So yes, his level is the only information we have on him. And a few quotes in game, one saying that he is as powerful as you can become without being a god.
So no feats, so no proof, the end. Lolarch, Elminster, and even Sam have feats proving thier prowess. Until we get lore wore speaking on what he has actually done... I won't even put him in the top 10.
I mean, you can say anything, squirrel girl can say that she is the equal of the one above all, but until she shows my cosmic level abilities that put the tribunal and the beyonder in their ln their place, all she is doing is talking.
In game lorewise, he had the soul of a demigod! He didn't even have to fight you, he could've teleported you to another nation far away, or hell to another plane or realm, and then started again! But he fought and lost... I'm just saying I'm not impressed, I'm the opposite of impressed, I'm unpressed, antipressed!
Honestly I don't fully accept why Jon chose Gorions ward over any of the other 5, hell even over Sarevok. They all more or less walked the same path, and there was always the chance Gorion's ward could've failed. So couldn't Jon achieved his goal with one of the five, or Sarevok?
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Two for one deal, Charname and Imoen get souls for him and Bodhi. The two are also near by, are high enough level to be visible, but are low enough to not be a threat.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
And yet, Gorion's ward handed him his ass on a silver platter... That two for one deal don't look so good to me right now. The Dragon and the fire giant, OK I could understand... But the monestary? And the Drow? I've seen people put him on the same playing field as Elminster on this board, so I have a hard time believing that he would have a hard time dealing with either of those to, or even dealing with Illisera no matter how tricky she maybe.
Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?
Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
He is an insanely high level wizard that have created his own spells. From a gameplay point of view, just being a that high level wizard, he should easily be able to deal with the five, throw in his instant kill spells and it'll be easy. It's harder to look from a lore perspective as he is only in Baldur's Gate, but unless i remember wrong, he is higher level than Elminster. While Elminster does have a god on his side (mystra) and that silverflame(?) ability, Irenicus have made some very powerful spells on his own.
You'll never see me talk game mechanics when it comes to characters, especially in rpg, its always feats and lore. What evidence is there that that instant kill spell will work outside what it's meant to do? I remember it being seen argued on this bored before, and someone claimed it ignored spell protection, but where does it do this outside of game mechanics? Game mechanics usually break rules and lore, so I don't believe it to be justifiable evidence honestly. Peoe even say Drizzt is stronger in BG game mechanics then he actually is lore/story wise.
I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
We don't have any information on him from outside of the game, so It's not possible to answer that. What can be said with certain is his level (Wizard 30), which is much higher than most other mages including one level above Elminster.
So yes, his level is the only information we have on him. And a few quotes in game, one saying that he is as powerful as you can become without being a god.
So no feats, so no proof, the end. Lolarch, Elminster, and even Sam have feats proving thier prowess. Until we get lore wore speaking on what he has actually done... I won't even put him in the top 10.
You do understand that you're comparing power levels between characters from books, and a final boss in a game, right? Irenicus won't even beat a wet behind the ears goblin in the forgotten realms books, because he doesn't exist there. The only comparing you can do is look at Drizzt and Elminster in the game, both whom he is much more powerful than.
I find it highly amusing that you're this biased against him. If you're not going to take the game into consideration, then this discussion stops here. For all you know he doesn't exist in your world, so there is no comparing.
[Edited] : The only reason Irenicus doesn't kill you, gain your bhaalspawn essence and destroy the five others, ascending to godhood. Is because he is the antagonist and because of that, can't win. He could at any moment have killed you after he took your soul.
Comments
As with some other posters, I don't like Time Stop, because the enemies against which you really need it are immune to it. For the other enemies against which you trivialized them with the spell, you could have beaten them anyway without Time Stop - it just would have taken more...wait for it...time.
As with some other posters, I don't like dual classing. I think it makes you a very weak, gimped character for most of the game content. It only pays off in late SoA and ToB. So, if those are the only portions of the game you care about, then, sure, be a dual class. I, on the other hand, prefer a balanced power curve for my character over the entire content of the game. I play for my story that I make up about myself, not for how "uber" I'm going to be in ToB.
BTW - Imoen and Anomen totally cheated their dual class levels. They both have eight levels of a class that they never had to earn as soon as you meet them in BG2.
I really wish I could remember their name.
No just no, mutli thief kills pure class in every way possible, my last mutli focused on stealth, he couldn't pick locks or find traps, but he was invisible all the time and he hardly ever missed a backstab. I just had Immy and Jan for a bit to handle all the other stuff.
Example: I recently finished a saga run with a lvl 13 shadow dancer turned fighter.
BG1 and chapters 1 + part of 2 I played a shadow dancer. It was fun, but it is the same way of fighting (soloing, really) the entire time. Dual class him and with quest xp he turned into a pretty decent fighter really fast. Even if 1-2 levels down, grand mastery with katanas, meaning Celestial Fury and Belm offhand for 5apr, made him a good front liner.
Towards the end of SoA he got his shadow dancer levels back. By that time many enemies can see through invisibility (even with non-detection) or are immune to backstab. Meaning he became someone who could front line, while getting opportune backstabs in and could shadow walk out of really bad situations.
This, in effect, gave me 3 different play styles during that saga run, which helped me keep interest in the character.
If so, fair enough, but as far as I can see they haven't enforced anything illegal... just changed your personal story...
-Banters don't necessarily make npcs more interesting in bg1
-High level combat is bg2 is boring
-"cheap" tactics are perfectly valid and often fit quite nicely into rolepaying a high int character
-a lot of the opinions in this thread are not, infact, "unpopular opinions"
I like Nicola Elbro's voice over work for Neera.
Open Lock - 100
Find Traps - 100
Pick Pocket - 100
Move Silently - 100
Hide in Shadows - 100
Detect Illusions - 10
Set Traps - 35
Throw in the AC and saving throw from her ring (that works with magical armor) and she has an amazing armor class. You don't need two rogues if you have Alora, she can take care of all your thieving needs alone. Oh did i mention she gets shorty saves too? Love her to death.
2.) Cleric is the most complete class in the game and the most versatile character. You've got amazing buffs, great summons, the ability to heal, powerful CC and some really good damage spells as well. You're able to use full plate and a large shield while casting, you can turn undead to make most fights against undead trivial. You'll be able to tank, deal damage with spells or in melee. You get nice HP on level up (1d8 + con) and you get good saving throws. A halfling cleric with a sling is a force to be feared.
The cleric is also a class where you gain a lot from your main stat, they get more spells with a higher wisdom. So when you gain a boost in Wisdom it's actually making a difference, unlike the Wizard/Sorcerer and Intelligence/Charisma. It's especially fun playing BG:EE with a cleric to gain the Wisdom tomes to raise your Wisdom to 21, gaining a huge amount of spells. Once you enter BG2:EE you'll be able to pick up more bonuses.
In BG2:EE the cleric stronghold might not be the most 'oh my god!' one out there, but there are actually 3 different 'factions' you can pick between, and doing the quests for Lathander or Talos are like day and night (Talos especially). No other class have the option to join different factions in their stronghold quest.
3.) Single classes are more fun and at times more powerful than dual classing or multi-classing.
4.) BG:EE is more entertaining than BG2:EE
5.) BG:EE has better NPC's than BG2:EE, with the exception of Jan Jansen.
6.) Sword and Shield style is good and especially worth it in BG:EE.
7.) No-reload is the way to go. - this seems to be more popular nowadays.
8.) Pickpocket is the second best rogue skill (after open lock).
9.) Swashbuckler is the best rogue kit.
10.) Dragon Disciple is really bad.
11.) Hexxat is the worst NPC ever made, in any bioware game. - Not sure if this is popular or unpopular.
12.) Haer'Dalis, Mazzy and Cernd are awesome characters and can get very powerful.
HLAs really muck up the system. The game would be better off without them.
Dual classing is awesome, but it needs to be done at low levels! Like 2nd or 3rd.
I miss the original BG1 Avatars, they had a better medieval vibe to them. The BG2 avatars feel more "fantasy".
I agree strongly with @SionIV that clerics are awesome, powerful, versatile characters. Plus, they are the representatives of ... The Gods ...Angelic sopranos sing "Ahhhhhhhhhh."...
Personally the monk just seemed like a safer bet to me than charname.
Better than facing a monestary of magic resistant monks, a tribe of fire giants, a dragon, to go into the underdark for a drow...sure Illisera wasn't tough. But two for one deal and she seemed 'trickier' than Charname.
Then again I don't understand why people view him as so powerful outside of having Gorion's souls. Nothing he's done can be viewed as "undoable" by any other talented mage or Sorcerer. He's just the one who chose to take that path of study. I mean, didn't Szass Tam try to destroy and recreate existence? (Ill have to find where i read thia again.) In the process killing the Zulkir of Divination and even causing the Zulkir of conjuration to be trapped inside the lowest forms of demon?
Only thing I find impressive about Jon is the choosing the direction he went, but I am far from believing he is the only caster in all the realms beside the lady's favored, capable of taking that exact same action. Elminster's power is backed by a very god so I could believe that there are things that only he can do.
(Ohh who am I kidding no one could ever think this)
I believe h to be a powerful mage no doubt, but in DnD I'm general, those seem to be a dime a dozen. I mean seriously people complain about how powerful sorcerers are and how they get their spells, but it seems to always be mages on another level with the.magic.
So yes, his level is the only information we have on him. And a few quotes in game, one saying that he is as powerful as you can become without being a god.
I mean, you can say anything, squirrel girl can say that she is the equal of the one above all, but until she shows my cosmic level abilities that put the tribunal and the beyonder in their ln their place, all she is doing is talking.
In game lorewise, he had the soul of a demigod! He didn't even have to fight you, he could've teleported you to another nation far away, or hell to another plane or realm, and then started again! But he fought and lost... I'm just saying I'm not impressed, I'm the opposite of impressed, I'm unpressed, antipressed!
I find it highly amusing that you're this biased against him. If you're not going to take the game into consideration, then this discussion stops here. For all you know he doesn't exist in your world, so there is no comparing.
[Edited] : The only reason Irenicus doesn't kill you, gain your bhaalspawn essence and destroy the five others, ascending to godhood. Is because he is the antagonist and because of that, can't win. He could at any moment have killed you after he took your soul.